Author Topic: Questions  (Read 31898 times)

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #330 on: July 07, 2020, 02:48:21 PM »
What happens if the blue meeple is a big meeple? What happens if both meeples are normal meeples, but is moved from the City of Carcassonne the big black meeple (into the castle)? What happens if both players wants to convert it into a castle?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #331 on: July 08, 2020, 12:01:45 PM »
All these questions can only push the rules we know to the limits, since this case is not covered anywhere... So we enter the land of reasonable speculation...

I found this thread on BGG discussing a similar scenario back in 09/2012:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/850355/flier-castles

...so you can see we continue on the land of unconfirmed rules in order to prevent the game from breaking.

In general terms:
* Players without the majority would be removed their meeples from the small town without scoring (the same as in a normal city).
* Then, each player sharing the majority should decide in turn if he/she scores the small city or converts it into a castle.
   - The players sharing the majority and scoring the city would score their points and remove their meeples from the small city.
   - The players converting the small city into a castle would play a castle token each on the small city and place their meeples in the castle on top.
       - You may place only one castle token and remove the rest from the game.

Note that each players needs a castle token. Players may not reuse some others castle token. It would be unfair. This means that players who ran out of castle tokens can only score the city if sharing the majority.

[237.c] What happens if the blue meeple is a big meeple?

Let's check a couple of scenarios...

Scenario A (the one you requested):
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a large meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: would like to score it.

In this case :blue-meeple: has the majority so, :red-meeple: cannot do or decide anything. :blue-meeple: would score 4 points for the small city and both meeples would be returned to their owners.



Scenario B (a variant swapping players' wishes):
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a large meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to score it but :blue-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle it.

In this case :red-meeple: has the majority so, :blue-meeple: cannot do or decide anything. :blue-meeple: would convert the small city into a castle and place its meeple in it. :red-meeple:, in minority, would remove their meeple.

[237.d] What happens if both meeples are normal meeples, but is moved from the City of Carcassonne the big black meeple (into the castle)?

Let's see the scenario...

Scenario:
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a regular meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: would like to score it. Since the city is going to be scored,  :black1-meeple: decides to deploy his/her large meeple from the city of Carcassonne.

Since :black1-meeple: has the majority, the other players cannot decide anything and the small city has to be scored (:black1-meeple: cannot do any other thing - the deployment is aimed at scoring). So :black1-meeple: scores 4 points and all the meeples are retuned to their owners.

[237.e] What happens if both players wants to convert it into a castle?

Let's see the scenario...

Scenario:
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a regular meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: and  :blue-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle.

Both :red-meeple: and :blue-meeple: need a castle token each. They both place one castle tokens on the small city and place their meeples in the castle. (You place one castle token and remove the other from the game).

Both meeples would  score the full points for the next completed feature (in a subsequent round of scoring).

You may have additional scenarios if involving mayors, the fairy (migration to a castle? = undefined  >:D), ringmasters (scoring ringmaster points in a castle? = undefined  >:D),...
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #332 on: July 08, 2020, 12:39:52 PM »
What happens with field scoring if there are 2 castle tokens on the same small city?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #333 on: July 08, 2020, 02:21:50 PM »
[238.] What happens with field scoring if there are 2 castle tokens on the same small city?

Unexplored territory again,...

You should consider only one castle for farm scoring for practical reasons. There may not be two castles in the same location unless you are playing a futuristic version in 4D.  ;)

The idea of stacking the castles is just to make sure all the players sharing a castle used one castle token each as requested. That is, no one has an extra castle token because they are piggybacking on the castle token placed by first player converting the small city into a castle.

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Questions
« Reply #334 on: July 09, 2020, 01:42:06 AM »
Currently I can't find it, but samewhere was written that current player on turn will choose which in order will be scoring feature.
I think this can apply, that user which scores small city he will choose if small city will turn to castle or not, whatever he doesn't have majority.
This can apply, when current plajer on turn finish that city.
Other situation is when somebody else finish city on his turn and in city are meeplse from different two (or more players).
In this case, rules said: A game of Carcassonne is played in clockwise order. So first player which is on turn after current player will have choose what to do with small city.
I don't know if some other rules use different logic, but I think, this can be best practice to use somethink whis is "discovered" and written ;-)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #335 on: July 09, 2020, 05:52:57 AM »
Normally, each player decides the order in which to score their features.

The order of scoring is specified by the active player if multiple features with one meeple are scored as a result of one tile placement when playing with The Barber-Surgeons.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#3._After_scoring_a_feature

When a small city is completed, the city owner decides what to do: score vs. convert into a castle. Here the issue is that you have several owners and each of them may decide different actions, and you have to satisfy them all.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 05:57:59 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Questions
« Reply #336 on: July 09, 2020, 08:03:46 AM »
Thanks for that Barber Surgeons, I knew that somwhere it is ;-)

And I know (original problem). But when it's tie (or draw) and there is no common decision what to do, than has to be found some rmechanism to decide what to do. Maybe this is one.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #337 on: July 09, 2020, 01:34:16 PM »
The active player can always be the referee in any dispute...  ;)

The problem is if he/she is an interested party too.  >:D

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Questions
« Reply #338 on: July 09, 2020, 04:34:55 PM »
The active player can always be the referee in any dispute...  ;)

The problem is if he/she is an interested party too.  >:D
Yes he is. As occupant or as victim :)

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Offline Nazarentsy

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Re: Questions
« Reply #339 on: July 17, 2020, 10:11:37 AM »
Expansion The Tunnel (1st edition)

"Tunnels in other expansions

Tiles from other expansions, such as The Princess and the Dragon and Abbey and the Mayor which also depict tunnels, can also be used with the rules for the Spielbox tunnel expansion; as such, the openings can be claimed with tokens. In this case the road leading through the tunnel does not count as continuous, contrary to the stated rules."

Is the road broken immediately or only after using the tunnel tokens from The Tunnel?

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Questions
« Reply #340 on: July 17, 2020, 10:25:53 AM »
When you said, that we are using Tunnel portals also for these tiles, then immediately. But it has to be clear at beginning of the game, if we are apply or not this rule on these tiles.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 12:25:14 PM by Bumsakalaka »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #341 on: July 17, 2020, 10:52:36 AM »
[239.] Expansion The Tunnel (1st edition)

"Tunnels in other expansions

Tiles from other expansions, such as The Princess and the Dragon and Abbey and the Mayor which also depict tunnels, can also be used with the rules for the Spielbox tunnel expansion; as such, the openings can be claimed with tokens. In this case the road leading through the tunnel does not count as continuous, contrary to the stated rules."

Is the road broken immediately or only after using the tunnel tokens from The Tunnel?

If agreed with the other players when you play with The Tunnel, you may apply the rules to tiles with tunnels in other expansions, that is, these ones (or their C1 counterparts):

* Exp. 3 - The Princess & the Dragon:


* Exp. 5 - Abbey & Mayor:


In this case, the road segments on these two tiles are considered immediately broken off. It would be like you have up to two extra tiles with tunnels even if the tunnel openings don't feature proper tunnel brickwork entrances.

So the would follow the same rules as for the tunnels in the expansion, found here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tunnel_(1st_edition)

PS: @Bumsakalaka you replied faster than me  :(y)

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #342 on: July 25, 2020, 11:48:24 AM »
In the last scenario, the black player cannot move a black meeple from the Castle (City of Carcassonne) because both players (red and blue) convert the city into a castle?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions
« Reply #343 on: July 26, 2020, 04:36:10 AM »
All these questions can only push the rules we know to the limits, since this case is not covered anywhere... So we enter the land of reasonable speculation...

I found this thread on BGG discussing a similar scenario back in 09/2012:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/850355/flier-castles

...so you can see we continue on the land of unconfirmed rules in order to prevent the game from breaking.

In general terms:
* Players without the majority would be removed their meeples from the small town without scoring (the same as in a normal city).
* Then, each player sharing the majority should decide in turn if he/she scores the small city or converts it into a castle.
   - The players sharing the majority and scoring the city would score their points and remove their meeples from the small city.
   - The players converting the small city into a castle would play a castle token each on the small city and place their meeples in the castle on top.
       - You may place only one castle token and remove the rest from the game.

Note that each players needs a castle token. Players may not reuse some others castle token. It would be unfair. This means that players who ran out of castle tokens can only score the city if sharing the majority.

[237.c] What happens if the blue meeple is a big meeple?

Let's check a couple of scenarios...

Scenario A (the one you requested):
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a large meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: would like to score it.

In this case :blue-meeple: has the majority so, :red-meeple: cannot do or decide anything. :blue-meeple: would score 4 points for the small city and both meeples would be returned to their owners.



Scenario B (a variant swapping players' wishes):
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a large meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to score it but :blue-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle it.

In this case :red-meeple: has the majority so, :blue-meeple: cannot do or decide anything. :blue-meeple: would convert the small city into a castle and place its meeple in it. :red-meeple:, in minority, would remove their meeple.

[237.d] What happens if both meeples are normal meeples, but is moved from the City of Carcassonne the big black meeple (into the castle)?

Let's see the scenario...

Scenario:
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a regular meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: would like to score it. Since the city is going to be scored,  :black1-meeple: decides to deploy his/her large meeple from the city of Carcassonne.

Since :black1-meeple: has the majority, the other players cannot decide anything and the small city has to be scored (:black1-meeple: cannot do any other thing - the deployment is aimed at scoring). So :black1-meeple: scores 4 points and all the meeples are retuned to their owners.

[237.e] What happens if both players wants to convert it into a castle?

Let's see the scenario...

Scenario:
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a regular meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: and  :blue-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle.

Both :red-meeple: and :blue-meeple: need a castle token each. They both place one castle tokens on the small city and place their meeples in the castle. (You place one castle token and remove the other from the game).

Both meeples would  score the full points for the next completed feature (in a subsequent round of scoring).

You may have additional scenarios if involving mayors, the fairy (migration to a castle? = undefined  >:D), ringmasters (scoring ringmaster points in a castle? = undefined  >:D),...

(237.e) In the last scenario, the black player cannot move a black meeple from the Castle (City of Carcassonne) because both players (red and blue) convert the city into a castle?

Yes, that's correct. In this scenario, both :red-meeple: and :blue-meeple:, present in the small city, decide to convert it into a castle. This means that no scoring happens at all and therefore, :black1-meeple: cannot redeploy any meeples from Carcassonne onto the city.

You can revisit the requirements to deploy a meeple from Carcassonne here:
* http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne

Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Questions
« Reply #344 on: August 01, 2020, 11:17:24 AM »
If you place a bridge on 2 halfling tiles, it values 1 or 2 points?


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