Author Topic: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here  (Read 10031 times)

Offline totor66

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2020, 11:08:46 AM »
Sorry for being not so clear.

I think we should be able to tick a box to put the abbot to see the significance it can add when we mix a bunch of expansions. Now the option removing abbot early is not shown in the round of scoring and it could be useful.

Like with setup with barber surgeon for example

Edit: sorry I'm bling it is already there, I don't know where I looked the first time  :-X
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 11:25:41 AM by totor66 »
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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2020, 05:55:47 PM »
No problem... A lot of information crammed there. ;)
Questions about rules? Check WICA: www.wikicarpedia.com

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2020, 06:02:05 PM »
Hi stano.lacko and all,

Here you are a first draft of page Scoring During the Game organized following the steps in the Order of Play. You can also see that all the bonuses have been replicated in each feature so you don't have to remember the order of evaluation or when to apply messages. Messages have been explained at the top not to insert them 6 times in the same page.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test

These are some questions for you:

1. What do you think of this format compared to the current Scoring During the Game page available here?

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game

2. Which one do you think it is more useful during a game?

3. Which one do you find simpler to use?

4. Shall we keep both?

5. Are they targeted to different types of players?

All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 06:34:32 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2020, 02:13:15 AM »
Hi it's wondreful.
I think, now it's clear when and by witch rule you can get points.
Here are answers to your questions

1. What do you think of this format compared to the current Scoring During the Game page available here?
- format is very good and understable

2. Which one do you think it is more useful during a game?
- for me new one. I think also for players start to play new expansions.

3. Which one do you find simpler to use?
- absolutely new one

4. Shall we keep both?
- this is not question for me ;-)

5. Are they targeted to different types of players?
- I guess that if some player cames to WiCa, he is not clear with rules and he is going to check it. So I thing new one is more useful for this check of scoring rules.

Thank you for this update!

We are going to play now ;-)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2020, 03:11:56 PM »
Did you enjoy your game?

I think this new format is very detailed and more verbose that the previous one.

I'm thinking about additional options:
* Hidding phases with no relevant scoring events  in order to avoid the overwhelming info a beginner may not require. 
* Possibly adding some actions connected to scoring, such as:
   - Adding notes about scoring evaluation order:
       - For multiple features involving one or multiple players
       - For bonus points (pre/post)
   - Adding notes about the selection of features when:
       - Scoring one or multiple castles
       - Scoring the teacher bonus
   - Sending a meeple to a bathhouse (connected to feature scoring)
   - Deploying meeples to Carcassonne and back (connected to feature scoring)
   - Distributing goods tokens or gold ingots (connected to the scoring after the game)
   - Giving King and Robber Baron tiles to players (connected to the scoring after the game)

When all this is decided, I will make an attempt at a similar page about Scoring After the Game.  ;)

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2020, 11:41:20 PM »
Yeah, we still not finish it, because we play all expansions ;-)

With Halflings (this really slow down game, because before them every player have tile in hand from deck to prepare to his turn).

And of course we forgot to play fairy ;-) Dragon ate most of all meeple and than somebody tell, oh we have fairy on table not in game ;-)

I have suggestion on new Scoring is not described when is Dispatch of Message, that it's scoring description page, maybe it will be good to write it with description of page, when you dispatch message.


Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2020, 09:24:56 AM »
Yeah, we still not finish it, because we play all expansions ;-)

With Halflings (this really slow down game, because before them every player have tile in hand from deck to prepare to his turn).

As a house rule, you could let players still have a tile in hand and place any of them (a halfling or a tile just drawn). If you place a halfling, then you don't draw a tile next turn. This way you are providing more options to the players. You could do the same for abbeys and German castles.

And of course we forgot to play fairy ;-) Dragon ate most of all meeple and than somebody tell, oh we have fairy on table not in game ;-)

We sometimes forget to score the 1-point turn start bonus.  :o

I have suggestion on new Scoring is not described when is Dispatch of Message, that it's scoring description page, maybe it will be good to write it with description of page, when you dispatch message.

The moments when you receive dispatch are detailed as last the action of their corresponding round of scoring (marked with the back of a message tile). The details of the scoring are only described once at the top. Do you mean to replicate the Dispatch scoring info at the end of the 6 rounds of scoring?

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2020, 01:25:52 PM »
No, maybe just put it to bold that text:
"if one of your scoring figures moved ended up on a dark space of the scoreboard, you may draw a Message tile"

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2020, 02:02:28 PM »
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2020, 11:10:55 PM »
Hi stano.lacko and all,

Here you are a first draft of page Scoring During the Game organized following the steps in the Order of Play. You can also see that all the bonuses have been replicated in each feature so you don't have to remember the order of evaluation or when to apply messages. Messages have been explained at the top not to insert them 6 times in the same page.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test

These are some questions for you:

1. What do you think of this format compared to the current Scoring During the Game page available here?

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game

2. Which one do you think it is more useful during a game?

3. Which one do you find simpler to use?

4. Shall we keep both?

5. Are they targeted to different types of players?

All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!

I like the new version also better! ????

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2020, 03:19:17 AM »
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.

Perfect. Now is abosultely clear what means Dispatch of message. And it also doesn't enlarge height of page, becaouse message tile is bigger tnat current text.

But I have a question.
1. When you use princes and remove kight, you are not able to use phantom
-yes
2. When you return abbot or accrobats, only allowed placing meeple is phantom in phase 2B-2
-yes
3. You are able to to take sheeps from fields when you put meeple? Is there change between C1 and C2?
-we were playing that if not place a meeple than you are able to take sheeps from field
4. You are able to dispatch message
a) fairy bonus
b) place wind rose tile
c) before resolve finished features (affection by sheeps, acrobats, abbot, fruits)
d) when I reboy in step2 my meeple in bathhouse and I move back one of scoring meeple and goest to dark place in scoreboard I still dispatch message?
e) after resolving all of finished features and moved big top?

Now my suggestion:
I don't understand "Feature scoring -> Castle token image Teacher image" when I click to Castle or Techer link is to file.
- maybe it will be better to describe as dispatch message after fairy bonus, or others where allowed to dispatch message.
I thing castle have to be more described. When you finish city, there is no informations about multiplying scoring points by neighbour castle.

Sorry for make you more jobs, but I ask children to read it and they were sometimes confused.

We don't play Robbers becaouse we don't have this expansion, but I think there will be more questions and suggestions ;-)

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2020, 11:04:19 AM »
Hi stano.lacko and all,

Here you are a first draft of page Scoring During the Game organized following the steps in the Order of Play. You can also see that all the bonuses have been replicated in each feature so you don't have to remember the order of evaluation or when to apply messages. Messages have been explained at the top not to insert them 6 times in the same page.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test

These are some questions for you:

1. What do you think of this format compared to the current Scoring During the Game page available here?

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game

2. Which one do you think it is more useful during a game?

3. Which one do you find simpler to use?

4. Shall we keep both?

5. Are they targeted to different types of players?

All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!

I love it too!!  ;D
'Connected field segments are called farms'  - The Weed Guru

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2020, 05:30:57 PM »
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.

Perfect. Now is abosultely clear what means Dispatch of message. And it also doesn't enlarge height of page, becaouse message tile is bigger tnat current text.

I'm glad, the approach to your suggestion was satisfactory for you.  ;)

Oooooh! Some questions next... Great!  ;D

But I have a question.
1. When you use princes and remove kight, you are not able to use phantom
-yes
2. When you return abbot or accrobats, only allowed placing meeple is phantom in phase 2B-2
-yes
3. You are able to to take sheeps from fields when you put meeple? Is there change between C1 and C2?
-we were playing that if not place a meeple than you are able to take sheeps from field
4. You are able to dispatch message
a) fairy bonus
b) place wind rose tile
c) before resolve finished features (affection by sheeps, acrobats, abbot, fruits)
d) when I reboy in step2 my meeple in bathhouse and I move back one of scoring meeple and goest to dark place in scoreboard I still dispatch message?
e) after resolving all of finished features and moved big top?

Please, find the answers in this post in order to avoid mixing stuff in the current topic, if you don't mind:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.msg67864#msg67864

Now my suggestion:
I don't understand "Feature scoring -> Castle token image Teacher image" when I click to Castle or Techer link is to file.
- maybe it will be better to describe as dispatch message after fairy bonus, or others where allowed to dispatch message.

Each image in MediaWiki is clickable by default and usually takes you to the page describing the image file. Don't let this mislead you.

The images on the "Feature scoring" banner only emphasize that those are the points scored for the feature itself and that...
- A robber may steal after scoring the core points corresponding to that feature (each bonus is scored and stolen individually as well)
- A castle may score if triggered by this feature.
- A player may score as teacher bonus if this is feature scored first after getting the teacher.

All this effort is only to indicate that bonus points corresponding to figures (or tokens) triggered by the feature, and won't be visible to a castle or to the teacher.

Let me know if this clarifies the whole thing or you have any suggestion about it.

I thing castle have to be more described. When you finish city, there is no informations about multiplying scoring points by neighbour castle.

Castles do not multiply the points by themselves. It all depends on who the castle and who own the feature triggering the castle scoring:
* If the owner are the same, you will see it as a scoring multiplier
* If the owner is different, you will see someone taking advance of your effort to close the feature.

So the scoring of a castle does not include any of these appreciations as they are more related to the strategy during a game than to the scoring itself: you can use castles to boost your scoring or to steal points from others. 

Please let me know your thoughts.

Sorry for make you more jobs, but I ask children to read it and they were sometimes confused.

We don't play Robbers becaouse we don't have this expansion, but I think there will be more questions and suggestions ;-)

Your questions and your feedback is most welcome. It is a great exercise of proofreading and testing.

No problem if some changes are derived from this process, especially if it leads to easy-to-understand scoring reference pages.  ;D

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2020, 01:20:39 AM »
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.

Perfect. Now is abosultely clear what means Dispatch of message. And it also doesn't enlarge height of page, becaouse message tile is bigger tnat current text.

I'm glad, the approach to your suggestion was satisfactory for you.  ;)

Oooooh! Some questions next... Great!  ;D

Now my suggestion:
I don't understand "Feature scoring -> Castle token image Teacher image" when I click to Castle or Techer link is to file.
- maybe it will be better to describe as dispatch message after fairy bonus, or others where allowed to dispatch message.

Each image in MediaWiki is clickable by default and usually takes you to the page describing the image file. Don't let this mislead you.

The images on the "Feature scoring" banner only emphasize that those are the points scored for the feature itself and that...
- A robber may steal after scoring the core points corresponding to that feature (each bonus is scored and stolen individually as well)
- A castle may score if triggered by this feature.
- A player may score as teacher bonus if this is feature scored first after getting the teacher.

All this effort is only to indicate that bonus points corresponding to figures (or tokens) triggered by the feature, and won't be visible to a castle or to the teacher.

Let me know if this clarifies the whole thing or you have any suggestion about it.

I thing castle have to be more described. When you finish city, there is no informations about multiplying scoring points by neighbour castle.

Castles do not multiply the points by themselves. It all depends on who the castle and who own the feature triggering the castle scoring:
* If the owner are the same, you will see it as a scoring multiplier
* If the owner is different, you will see someone taking advance of your effort to close the feature.

So the scoring of a castle does not include any of these appreciations as they are more related to the strategy during a game than to the scoring itself: you can use castles to boost your scoring or to steal points from others. 

Please let me know your thoughts.

Ok. I thing that it can be described like bonus scoring (prolog) for Watchtowers or bonus scoring (epilog) for Fairy, Ringmaster etc.

Maybe it's not bonus scoring but Triggering scoring like in city
Four sections:
1. Prolog (watchtowers)
2. Feature scoring - all City, Cathar, Mage, Witch, Little Buildings, German Castles, Bathhouse, Darmstadium (it's enought)
3. Triggering scoring - new section
- Castle
 - here can be described like if castle is yours, double points
- Teacher (described in epilog)
- Robber
4. Epilog

Than that symbols on beginning not be necessary and will be understable rules for scoring. And not be forgotten ;-)

New suggection:
Why not to add symbol of robber to points table column for example:
Fairy bonus - 3 points for feature -> Triggering Robber


Offline Meepledrone

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Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2020, 06:10:33 AM »
Hi!

Before reading the previous post, I was preparing a new update for the new Scoring During the Game test:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test

I have included the following:
* Conditional visibility of empty steps in a phase if no scoring actions have to be shown.
* Changed step headers from grey to the phase color to reduce the number of grey bars.
* Updated the wording in the headers of steps 2A, 2B-1 and 2B-2.
* Added restrictions related to negative points in actions subtracting points

Thank you for all your suggestions and comments on the forum and on Slack.

Cheers! 


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