Author Topic: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak  (Read 493 times)

Offline Buldeo

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The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« on: January 21, 2020, 07:42:16 PM »
Hi,

I am very confused with this rule taken from Wikicarpedia:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Plague_(1st_edition)

Quote
Eradicating further Outbreaks
The next Outbreak (and always the token with the lowest number currently in play) is only eradicated when there are no more latent flea tokens which could be moved at the start of a player's turn.

It is also possible to divide a swarm of fleas by choosing to move one of them. As soon as an active flea token is no longer connected to an active Outbreak, it is turned onto its passive side. Therefore, fleas which are not connected to an active Outbreak are always inactive.

What does the second paragraph mean?

My wife thinks that it's an alternative to Eradicating further Outbreaks. When there are no more latent Flea tokens, you can choose between Eradicating the Outbreaks token with the lowest number, OR you can move an Active Flea token? And if you can move an active Flea token, is it only in the case that a single movement of a Flea token would allow to divide a swarm?

I don't think this way...

When there are no more latent Flea tokens, I think you must Eradicating the Outbreaks token with the lowest number. After that, if there is only one left active plague region, you don't have any another choice but to move an active Flea token. By doing this, if you divide the swarm, then you turned all the Flea tokens that is no longer connected onto its passive side.

What's the good meaning?

Thanks

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4482.0

Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2020, 11:11:26 PM »
Put simply:
If you run out of fleas, the lowest numbered Outbreak is eradicated (the number token is flipped) and any fleas connected to it (that aren't also connected to an active Outbreak tile) are turned to their passive side. 

If any active fleas are disconnected from an active Outbreak (such as by removing one to place it elsewhere, which can happen when all 18 fleas are active), then all of the fleas in that group are turned to their passive side. The outbreak remains active but there are just no fleas connected to it.\

I hope that helps a bit.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 01:24:40 AM »
Hi Buldeo,

I agree with Whaleyland's comments.

Regarding your question, your interpretation is right. The second paragraph is just a side note about how a swarm can be split and some fleas turn inactive as a result. This splitting won't lead to an outbreak eradication by itself.

The rules of The Plague are a source of much controversy as they don't follow the typical turn structure. For example, fleeing the plague or spreading the plague do not happen at a particular moment during a turn as of today.

Offline Nazarentsy

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2020, 09:52:15 PM »
Hello. One more question please.

Could the tiles with a flea token on its latent side be occupied by a means of a magic portal, a flying machine or a crop circle?

Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2020, 11:41:26 PM »
Hello. One more question please.

Could the tiles with a flea token on its latent side be occupied by a means of a magic portal, a flying machine or a crop circle?
Since tiles with latent fleas are not currently experiencing the plague, I see no reason why meeples could not return to them. They could even escape to them, although that would be rather risky.

Offline Nazarentsy

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2020, 11:53:33 PM »
Quote
They could even escape to them, although that would be rather risky.

“The follower may not take flight to or over a tile with a flea token (either active or latent), nor to a tile with an active Outbreak.“ (WikiCarpedia)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2020, 12:06:31 AM »
Hello. One more question please.

Could the tiles with a flea token on its latent side be occupied by a means of a magic portal, a flying machine or a crop circle?
Since tiles with latent fleas are not currently experiencing the plague, I see no reason why meeples could not return to them. They could even escape to them, although that would be rather risky.

My interpretation is a bit different....

The rules don't clarify this situation but I remembered this paragraph:

Quote
The follower may not take flight to or over a tile with a flea token (either active or latent), nor to a tile with an active Outbreak. It may take flight to a tile on which there is already a follower. Naturally, a follower may not take flight over areas where there is no tile.

So, if a meeple cannot flee to a tile with a flea token (no matter its state), I wouldn't allow to deploy a meeple to those tiles by means of a magic portal or a flying machine. My interpretation is that those inactive flea tokens can become active any time, so meeples should stay away from them.

Regarding outbreak tiles, you would be able to deploy meeples to those inactive only as they won't become active again.

Does this make sense to you?



EDIT:

@Nazarentsy Oooops! It took me longer to finish my post than you... but I see we agree on the interpretation.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 12:12:38 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline Nazarentsy

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2020, 12:27:24 AM »
Quote
@Nazarentsy Oooops! It took me longer to finish my post than you... but I see we agree on the interpretation.  ;)

I think the same as you.
Thank you for your love of the game and your help here!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2020, 01:11:07 AM »
Quote
@Nazarentsy Oooops! It took me longer to finish my post than you... but I see we agree on the interpretation.  ;)

I think the same as you.
Thank you for your love of the game and your help here!

Thanks for your kind words  ;D

I added a footnote clarification about this to The Plague page at WICA. 

Offline tp10053

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2020, 09:32:54 AM »
I'm sorry Meepledrone, but I have to strongly disagree with your interpretation of the second question asked here.

I agree of course that rules state that you cannot take flight onto a tile with a latent flea.
However, using a flying machine, magic portal, city of carcassonne, crop circle, or wagon movement are all considered deployment of a follower, not an mere flight of n already deployed follower - this I think is a distinct difference.

Also, it wouldn't make sense from a tactical stand point - the whole mechanism of swarm becoming latent and then perhaps reactivating again if merged with an active one... that only makes sense if you expect those latent tiles to be potentialy occupied at some point.
Being able to deploy a follower to latent swarm tiles makes interesting tactical implications. Risky yes, but interesting nonethless.
In fact I consider it a large portion of the Plagues' enjoyability.

I see no reason why this should not be allowed, quite the contrary.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 10:49:45 AM by tp10053 »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2020, 10:15:43 AM »
I understand your point and I agree with you it is very interesting tactically speaking but I'm just thinking of being consistent with the little pieces of information we have in the rules.

My line of thought is this: If you cannot occupy (or even cross over) a tile with a flea token when taking flight from the plague, why should you be allowed to occupy that tile by other means?

As far as I see it, a tile with a flea token or an active outbreak would behave as a hole in the landscape, so no meeple placement is allowed until the flea token is gone (maybe temporarily) or the outbreak is inactive (for good).

Obviously, this is pure interpretation as there are no written rules for this.

Offline tp10053

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2020, 11:28:14 AM »
My rationale is if rules give us a restriction to a mechanism specific to this expansion, why should that also restrict different mechanism that is not even mentioned in the rules in this regard.

I agree with flea behaving like a hole in the landscape, but once inactive this behavior should be suspended. A follower should not become sick with an inactive plague.
Or rather thematically speaking, eradication of an outbreak creates a space which has immunity from plague and the surounding swarm of carriers becomes latent. The people of Carcassonne have built up immunity to that particular strain of plague, they can still be infected but won't have any symptoms. Of course those who were living in the land before eradication still fear these formally lethal regions and will avoid them (inability to flee to inactive plague). The newcomers however (newly deployed followers)  have no such experiences and there is no danger now. Eventually the strain mutates and a new outbreak occurs. People are not immune to this one and should this new strain meet the old one, the new mutation can spread and it becomes lethal again (reactivation)

Well that is just a thematic narrative  :)), but my first point is the main one.
Unless HiG (or Spielbox?) explicitly states such restriction, I don't think it is a question that even needs to be asked.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 11:31:49 AM by tp10053 »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Plague: Question on Eradicating an Outbreak
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2020, 04:38:05 PM »
After all the thematic dissertation ;D, I wonder: Why deploying a meeple to a tile with an inactive flea token when you can move the inactive tile to another location first? Your meeple just deployed wanted to disinfect the tile from nasty little flea remnants...  O0

You may spread the plague away from your tile of choice and claim a feature increasing the chances or the meeple you just deployed. It is not necessary to overexpose it when you can make your life easier.

What do you think?





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