Author Topic: Questions about the Labyrinth tiles  (Read 446 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Questions about the Labyrinth tiles
« on: January 11, 2020, 08:19:46 AM »
Hi all,

I want to share with you a question posted by a visitor on WICA regarding Labyrinth tiles:

Quote
[Q1] Does it have any fields around the labyrinth?
[If so,]
[Q1.1] Could I put a meeple on the field [as a farmer]?
[Q1.2] Could I put my barn on the fields junction [including the Labyrinth]?

My interpretation is that there is a narrow stripe surrounding the labyrinth, only interrupted by the road segments going out of the labyrinth. This would mean I would answer YES to the three questions:
1. These field strips behave as a normal field segment with all their properties:
    - You can place a farmer on them
    - They join field segments on adjacent tiles
2. A barn can be placed on the labyrinth tile corners (even if it overlaps the labyrinth)

One additional consideration regarding the Labyrinth tiles is that the four road segments going out of the labyrinth are part of the labyrinth itself and cannot be claimed independently from the labyrinth. That is, for example, you cannot place a normal meeple on the center of the labyrinth and a phantom on any of the road segments on the edge of the tile. The labyrinth and the tiny road segments on the tile belong to the same feature.

What do you think? Do you have any additional information about all this you would like to share?

Thank you in advance!

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4454.0
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 04:08:13 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions about the Labyrinth tiles
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2020, 03:34:40 AM »
Please find below more questions posted on WICA. This time, they are related to the interactions of The Labyrinths and the Builder (Exp. 2 - Traders & Builders):

Quote
[Q1] Does anyone have rules for mixing Labyrinths with the 2nd Expansion?
[Q2] Can I put a builder on a Labyrinth road segment?
[Q2.1] If I can what happens if I finish a road segment but not the Labyrinth?
[Q2.2] My builder and my meeple has stay on that road segment until the whole Labyrinth is finished?
[Q2.3] And even if I can't put a builder next to a Labyrinth road, what if I connect the Labyrinth to a road which already has a meeple with a builder?

There is no official rules covering this interaction as HiG stopped providing clarifications involving minor expansions in 2016. So haw can we address this? My line of thought is the following: The labyrinth tiles behave like roundabout road segments with special rules for meeple placement and, in the case of the advanced rules, an additional bonus.

So, if we separate concerns, a labyrinth is basically a road segment at its core. Thus, you can place a builder as usual on it or any of the roads branching out from it, affecting the whole road network:
* You will get a double turn when extending any road branch connected to a labyrinth tile.
* You will get your builder back when all the branches of a road network containing labyrinth tiles are completed.

So getting back to the questions:
[Q1]: There are no official rules for the interaction of The Labyrinth and Traders & Builders.
[Q2]: Yes, you can place a builder on a labyrinth if you already placed at least one of your meeples on any road connected to the labyrinth, that is, you comply with the requirements to place the builder on any regular road.
[Q2.1] You may complete one road branch but the entire labyrinth road network will not be completed until all its branches are completed too. This would be the same as a road with a roundabout. So you will get double turns any time you extend any of the branches but scoring won't happen until the road network is fully completed.
[Q2.2] Yes, all the meeples and builders on a labyrinth road network will stay on the feature until it is completed, the same as for any regular road.
[Q2.3] If a road with your builder gets connected to a road network with a labyrinth, your builder will affect the whole road network.

In a nutshell, labyrinths are just special roundabouts. The builder will behave as usual on a road network contains labyrinth tiles or not.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 04:07:52 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline Sinscerly

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Re: Questions about the Labyrinth tiles
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2020, 04:59:55 AM »
Q1. Yes, there is a small piece of farm on the side of the tiles, it has not really a big function.
Q1.1 It's small, there is farmland so yes
Q1.2 Well the corner is like the river spring totally farmland so I think yes to.
----
Q1. nope the official rules only talk about the Labyrinths
Q2. Yes, but before that you need to have a meeple on it.
Q2.1 Your builder and meeple stay on the road... the road is not yet finished because the roads connected to the Labyrinth are, as stated in the official rules are interconnected
Q2.2 Yes, see Q2.1
Q2.3 Same as Q2.1

I see a Labyrinth as a maze, it's not really a roundabout, but yes they are interconnected in the same structure as a roundabout is used in Carcassone.

Placing a builder on the road gives, IMHO the opportunity to build faster roads to the roundabout, but you may only place your builder on a connected road segment if your meeple is on that segment.
"What things can you find? Things that are hidden?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions about the Labyrinth tiles
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2020, 07:04:24 AM »
I see a Labyrinth as a maze, it's not really a roundabout, but yes they are interconnected in the same structure as a roundabout is used in Carcassone.

I agree, it is like a roundabout with fuzzy where the four roads branching out have fuzzy (quantum?) connections to the central ring....

This is just a normal roundabout but can serve to illustrate the concept (or not  ;))...



Placing a builder on the road gives, IMHO the opportunity to build faster roads to the roundabout, but you may only place your builder on a connected road segment if your meeple is on that segment.

This is another gap in the rules. Besides the flexibility provided to meeples when occupying the labyrinth and the connected roads, the whole road network is a single feature. As a consequence, IMHO the builder can be placed on any tile of the road network. Even if you place it on the same brach as your meeple, it should affect the whole feature.

I just imagine a similar case with two roads A and B connected by a tunnel or a ferry. You may place your meeple on road stretch A and the builder on road stretch B. Both are connected and builder affects the complete feature even if the connection is temporary as in the case of the ferry.

What do you think?

Offline Sinscerly

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Re: Questions about the Labyrinth tiles
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2020, 01:54:07 PM »
This is another gap in the rules. Besides the flexibility provided to meeples when occupying the labyrinth and the connected roads, the whole road network is a single feature. As a consequence, IMHO the builder can be placed on any tile of the road network. Even if you place it on the same brach as your meeple, it should affect the whole feature.

I just imagine a similar case with two roads A and B connected by a tunnel or a ferry. You may place your meeple on road stretch A and the builder on road stretch B. Both are connected and builder affects the complete feature even if the connection is temporary as in the case of the ferry.

What do you think?
Yes I agree, but there it is not possible to place another meeples. In this case you are allowed to place another meeple on the segment, so while during the game the segments are not connected or somehow??? and when scored all the road leading to the Labyrinth are counted majority and the majority wins.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Questions about the Labyrinth tiles
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2020, 03:42:27 PM »
In this case, I would separate feature integrity from occupancy rules...

You have one single road network but the labyrinth tile defines up to 5 different subnetworks you can claim independently by meeples: the labyrinth tile and the for road stretches branching out. Why up to 5 subsets? Because branches can get connected.

Is this duality driving you crazy?  ;)

 


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