Author Topic: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)  (Read 502 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« on: August 21, 2019, 03:33:53 AM »
Hi all,

As I think scoring rules are fun to review and discuss, I prepared another quiz for you to enjoy after reviewing some dark corners on the ground floor. This time a puzzle with a bit of everything and two questions to answer.

What do you think of this? Hope you like it.

EDIT: Added some coordinates to help the discussion. Also clarified the Labyrinths use advanced scoring rules and indicated the animal token under the big top.

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4369.0
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 03:05:01 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline yezhenhan

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2019, 07:52:41 PM »
Hi Meepledroneļ¼Œ

You are genius. ;D


Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2019, 03:19:23 PM »
I just ate all my veggies when I was a kid  O0

I think we need to conclude our current discussion in the following topic before we get our hands dirty with this quiz, right?

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4356.0

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2019, 03:36:40 PM »
Indeed  :P

Offline DaFees

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2019, 10:57:08 PM »
Well I've made the effort to tackle this quiz. I really feel like I made a mistake or missed something but I certainly tried my best and hopefully followed the current consensus from the other thread accordingly. Anyway...

4 points (Mage) for Red (B1) - After
25 * 2 + 1 = 51 points for Blue (C1) - After
0 points for Red (G1) (Yellow has majority via hill) - After
4 points (Ringmaster bonus) for Blue (C2 / D4) (Red has majority via hill) - During
(25 * 3) / 2 (Core Road) + 3 (Little Buildings) + 4 (Bath House) + 6 * 2 (Meeples on a Labyrinths) + 2 * 3 (German Castle Bonus Points) + 3 (Fairy) + 7 (Watchtower Bonus) + 23 (Wainwrights Quarter Bonus) = 96 points for Red (D2 / A3) - During*
12 11 (German Castle) + 4 (Big Top Bonus) = 16 15 points for Yellow (E2) - after**
25 * 2 + 2 = 52 points for Yellow (C3) - during
0 points for Yellow (F3 / E5) - during
4 points for Yellow (G3) - after
4 (Big Top Bonus) + 5 (Acrobat) = 9 points for Red (D5) - After
4 (Big Top Bonus) + 5 (Acrobat) = 9 points for Blue (D5) - After

4 points for Blue - During
96 points for Red - During*
52 points for Yellow - During

4 + 9 = 13 points for Red - After
51 + 9 = 60 points for Blue - After
16 15 + 4 = 20 19 points for Yellow - After**

* Red would be entitled to an additional point if you consider the little building on the halfling tile in the bottom right corner to be a part of the mega road that would get scored. As far as I can tell there is no official clarification on this particular interaction. The only thing we have to go on is that if a meeple is on a halfling tile and is connected to another halfling tile that would form a whole tile and that other halfling tile has a hill on it then that meeple gets the benefit of the hill.
** Yellow would be entitled to an additional point if you were to use the house rule suggested in the WICA under the German Castles section of the Halflings entry ( http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions ). I don't think you are using any house rules though because if you were using the house rules then by those very house rules the German Castle with the Yellow meeple on it would've already been completed and scored. I also couldn't imagine a situation were you'd only follow one of the house rules and not both.

EDIT: modified my answers to suit the slight change to the quiz.
EDIT2: Forgot to award the Big Top bonus to the Yellow meeple on the German Castle. I've updated my scores accordingly.
EDIT3: Corrected scoring for Yellow on G3
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 11:57:56 AM by DaFees »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 03:01:18 AM »
Hi DaFees!

Thanks for participating. Was it too difficult?

+1 merit for being the first one to reply.

Regarding your notes:

* Yellow would be entitled to an additional point if you were to use the house rule suggested in the WICA under the German Castles section of the Halflings entry ( http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions ). I don't think you are using any house rules though because if you were using the house rules then by those very house rules the German Castle with the Yellow meeple on it would've already been completed and scored. I also couldn't imagine a situation were you'd only follow one of the house rules and not both.

This is my bad. I wanted an uncompleted German Castle. I left an extra Halfling that shouldn't be there. I'll remove the Halfling on D1. If you want to review your scoring entry, please do so.

** Red would be entitled to an additional point if you consider the little building on the halfling tile in the bottom right corner to be a part of the mega road that would get scored. As far as I can tell there is no official clarification on this particular interaction. The only thing we have to go on is that if a meeple is on a halfling tile and is connected to another halfling tile that would form a whole tile and that other halfling tile has a hill on it then that meeple gets the benefit of the hill.

This is precisely one of the discussions I wanted to trigger with this quiz. Hills affect the whole square space even if it comes from a Halfling. IMHO this is just to be consistent with the effect of the tile hidden underneath as it raises the whole square space.

On the other hand, after the latest clarifications from 10/2015, Halflings are considered tiles on their own right so my point here is whether the Little Building bonus is contained within a Halfling. (I'm assuming so, by the way, as I think it would be consistent with regular square tiles and double-sized tiles.)

Cheers!

Offline DaFees

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2019, 08:13:45 PM »
Other than having to brush up on some of the rules interactions, this wasn't that difficult and I enjoyed working through it.

Offline Windekind

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 10:35:38 PM »
You extend the road by placing the German Cathedral. Then you CAN move the ferry. If this is moved, the solution for Q1 and Q2 will be different.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2019, 01:52:19 AM »
Hi Windekind,

That wasn't my original idea but, if you want to explore all the option, feel free. You may shorten the road network by one tile or leave it uncompleted.

Cheers!

Offline Windekind

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2019, 05:27:14 AM »
When placing the German Cathedral tile, you have 3 options regarding the road - because you can move the ferry.

Question 1
Option 1 (E5 stays unchanged)
:yellow-meeple: C3: Road (C3-C4): 8 points
    * 2 wegen = 4 points
    * +1 point Little building
    * +3 points bonus German castle
:yellow-meeple: C3: Big Road : 28 points
    * 18 Road tiles + 3 Halflings + 4 road segments = 25 points (with Inn & witch it remains 25 points)
    * +3 points little buildings.
    * The yellow meeple goes to the bathhouse.
:yellow-meeple: on Big road: Big Road : 25 points
    * No majority road: 0 points
    * watchtower: +8 points
    * Little Buildings: 3 points
    * Labyrinth: 7 meeple: 14 points
:red-meeple: on Big road: Big Road : 78 points
    * 18 Road tiles + 3 Halflings + 4 road segments = 25 points (with Inn & witch it remains 25 points)
    * watchtower: +8 points
    * Fairy: +3 points
    * Market of Leipzig: 25 points
    * Little Buildings: 3 points
    * Labyrinth: 7 meeple: 14 points
:blue-meeple: on Big road: Big Road : 27 points
    * No majority road: 0 points
    * watchtower: +8 points
    * Little Buildings: 3 points
    * Labyrinth: 7 meeple: 14 points
    * Ringmasters: +2 punten

Option 2 (E5 the ferry changed so there was no connection with the yellow meeple)
:yellow-meeple: C3: Road (C3-C4): 8 points
    * 2 wegen = 4 points
    * +1 point Little building
    * +3 points bonus German castle
:yellow-meeple: C3: Big Road : 27 points
    * 17 Road tiles + 3 Halflings + 4 road segments = 24 points (with Inn & witch it remains 24 points)
    * +3 points little buildings.
    * The yellow meeple goes to the bathhouse.
:yellow-meeple: on Big road: Big Road : 25 points
    * No majority road: 0 points
    * watchtower: +8 points
    * Little Buildings: 3 points
    * Labyrinth: 7 meeple: 14 points
:red-meeple: on Big road: Big Road : 76 points
    * 17 Road tiles + 3 Halflings + 4 road segments = 24 points (with Inn & witch it remains 24 points)
    * watchtower: +8 points
    * Fairy: +3 points
    * Market of Leipzig: 25 points
    * Little Buildings: 3 points
    * Labyrinth: 7 meeple: 14 points
:blue-meeple: on Big road: Big Road : 27 points
    * No majority road: 0 points
    * watchtower: +8 points
    * Little Buildings: 3 points
    * Labyrinth: 7 meeple: 14 points
    * Ringmasters: +2 punten

Option 3 (E5 unfinished road)
    * Because the road is not finished, no points are awarded to  :yellow-meeple: :blue-meeple: :red-meeple:.

Question 2
Option 3 (Big unfinisched road)
    *  :blue-meeple: :red-meeple: :yellow-meeple:: Because the road has an inn, this road gets no points.

Road on A1
    :red-meeple: 8 points   * 3 roads + 1 roadsegment = 4 points
                                       * +4 for mage

Road on G1   
     :yellow-meeple: 5 points: (5 tiles)
      :red-meeple: 0 points

Germain Cathedral  :blue-meeple: 34  or 23 points
       * A1 road: 8 points: 3 roadtiles + 1 roadsegment = 4 points + mages
       * Big road: *option 1: 25 points
                        * option 2: 24 points
                        * option 3: 24 points
       * C1 tile: 1 roadsegment: 1 point

E2 castle
        :yellow-meeple: 12 points (8 tiles + 1 double tile + 2 halflings)

Piramid
        :red-meeple: 5 points
         :blue-meeple: 5 points


TOTAL Q1:
                                   Option 1            Option 2          Option 3
 :red-meeple:               78p                   76p                     -
 :blue-meeple:              27p                   27p                    -
 :yellow-meeple:           61p                   61p                    -

TOTAL Q2:
 :red-meeple:              13p                    13p                   13p
 :blue-meeple:             39p                    38p                   38p
 :yellow-meeple:          17p                    17p                   17p
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 06:01:08 AM by Windekind »

Offline DaFees

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2019, 09:46:57 PM »
Windekind,

Some questions...

Why is Yellow scoring for the big road? It has no majority! The big road has 2 meeples of each color but because Red has a meeple on a hill it breaks the tie.
Why after scoring the big road are you moving a meeple to the bathhouse? Rules say when you have more than one meeple as a part of scoring you do NOT then move one of those meeples to an available bathhouse.
Where are you getting 7 meeples as a part of the labyrinths? I only count 6.
You do realize the road at A1 is incomplete AND has an inn on it, right?
Don't forget to score the Big Top at game end!

If I think of more I'll edit my post accordingly.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2019, 02:54:11 PM »
Hi Windekind!

Sorry for taking so long to reply.

+1 merit from me for your comprehensive response.


DaFees made several good points to take into consideration.

I will add some considerations for your review:
- The road on G1 is 4 tiles long not 5 tiles long. Tunnel entrances on tile G2 are not counted separately - The tile is counted once. 
- An incomplete road with an Inn can score points at the end of the game thanks to Little Buildings.
- The witch on E3 is obscuring the road segment connected to the German castle, so the big road has 2 German castles.
- Archbishops score 2 points per tile on connected roads with an Inn.
- The features on the watchtower tile are also considered for the watchtower scoring.

Cheers!

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2019, 02:08:49 AM »
My trial:

During the game:

German Cathedral (C3)
(22 tiles + 4 road segments) x2 (Inn)
+3 Little Buildings B3,B/C4,F2
TOTAL: 55 points for  :yellow-meeple:

Labyrinth + Roads
1. Watchtower D4: 8 tiles x1 = 8 points for  :blue-meeple:

2. Road including labyrinths:
[(21 tiles + 1 road segment C1 + 3 road segments C3) x3 (Inn + German Cathedrals)] / 2 (Witch)= 38
+4 Bathhouse B2
+3 Little Buildings B3,B/C4,F2
+6 German Castles B/C4, E2/3
+12 Labyrinth meeple bonus
+23 Wainwright Quarter (23 tiles)
+3 Fairy
TOTAL: 89 points for  :red-meeple: (Majority due to presence on hill)

3. Ringmaster bonus:
2 circus tiles x2: 4 points for  :blue-meeple:


After the game

Big Top
4 points for  :yellow-meeple: (2 other meeples removed after scoring of the road)
4 points for  :blue-meeple:  (blue ringmaster removed after scoring of the road)
4 points for  :red-meeple:

Road A2-C3
4 tiles x0 (Inn) =0 points
+4 (Mage)
TOTAL: 4 points for  :red-meeple:

German Cathedral C1
(23 tiles + 3 road segments C1 + 3 road segments C3) x0 (Inns) = 0 points
+3 Little Buildings B3,B/C4,F2
TOTAL: 3 points for  :blue-meeple:

Acrobats D5
5 points for  :blue-meeple:
5 points for  :red-meeple:

German Castle E2/3
2 points + 9 tiles = 11 points
+1 Little Building F2
TOTAL: 12 points for  :yellow-meeple:

Road F1-G3
4 points for  :yellow-meeple: (Majority due to presence on a hill)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 09:28:39 AM by Vital Pluymers »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2019, 12:39:04 PM »
Hi Vital Pluymers,

Thank you for participating.

One thing: German Cathedrals evaluate each road ending at the cathedral separately so inns do not affect all the branches as a whole. Thus each road connected to a German Cathedral is evaluated with its inn(s) separately.

Also sharp eyes: you spotted the yellow meeple scoring the circus  ;D

+1 merit from me.

Cheers!


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