Author Topic: Escape from besieged city missing from CAR's "Order of Play"  (Read 1961 times)

Offline JT Atomico

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Escape from besieged city missing from CAR's "Order of Play"
« on: September 09, 2013, 11:27:38 AM »
When replying to this topic, I looked up the CAR's "Order of Play" (v6.3 p157-161) to check at what point during a turn a knight can escape a besieged city. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, can someone add it for v6.4?

The rules say that:

Quote
If a cloister directly borders a Cathar tile even diagonally then at the end of a player's turn, he or she may remove one knight from the city and return it to the supply.

So I think it needs to go in to "Step 7: Resolve turn", but I'm not sure at what point!

Here is Step 7, with some inline thoughts about what happens depending on which stage you are allowed to escape a knight:

Quote
Step 7: Resolve Turn
a) If the active player did not score any points from placement of the tile, but one or more opponents did, the active player may place a follower in the City of Carcassonne. Then the active player moves the Count to a quarter of his or her choice.
The player could send the escaping knight (could be a mayor, big follower, etc.) to City of Carcassonne
b) RGG rules only: If a dragon symbol was on the placed tile, move the dragon.
Leaving the knight there and not saying you planned to remove him could make him a target for the dragon (as a diversion for some other follower?)
c) If a fair symbol was on the placed tile, use the catapult.
Again a diversion for "Knock out" chips, but more interestingly should he remain to be a follower for "Seduction" chips and allow others to change to him?
d) If a bazaar symbol was on the placed tile (and the tile was not purchased during an auction), resolve an auction.
e) If a crop circle was on the placed tile, the active player determines whether all players now A) may deploy a follower next to one already in play or B) must remove a follower. The type of follower is determined by the type of crop circle.
You could use (A) followed by escape to just swap in a better follower (e.g. mayor for normal)
f) If a gingerbread man symbol was on the placed tile, the active player moves the Gingerbread Man to another unfinished city. All players with knights in the initial city receive points. Perform Step 6E and 6H as necessary.420
Can a knight intending to escape score Gingerbread man points?
g) If the builder was already on part of the feature added to, repeat Steps 2 through 7e once more and only once more.

Personally I think that a knight should escape at the very end of a player's turn (i.e. 7h). So, even after the extra builder sequence if necessary.

That is the easiest interpretation of the rules I think. It could make for some cool edge case scenarios!

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=430.0
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 11:32:27 AM by JT Atomico »

Offline Carcking

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Re: Escape from besieged city missing from CAR's "Order of Play"
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2013, 09:34:43 AM »
Personally I think that a knight should escape at the very end of a player's turn (i.e. 7h). So, even after the extra builder sequence if necessary.

I agree with this line of thinking...that is, until the next expansion comes along that says "at the end of the player's turn".  ::) Maybe in the case of such future expansions the "end of turn" actions should be resolved chronologically based on the release of the expansions.
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline obervet

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Re: Escape from besieged city missing from CAR's "Order of Play"
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 12:34:45 PM »
Personally I think that a knight should escape at the very end of a player's turn (i.e. 7h). So, even after the extra builder sequence if necessary.

I agree with this line of thinking...that is, until the next expansion comes along that says "at the end of the player's turn".  ::) Maybe in the case of such future expansions the "end of turn" actions should be resolved chronologically based on the release of the expansions.

I agree with this reasoning as well. Unless I am mistaken, there are no other expansions that refer to the end of the turn. Other rules mention events happening after tile placement, wood movement, and scoring, but don't specifically say the end of the turn. Thus, the escape from the siege would have to be the absolute last thing that happens before play moves to the next player. (I'm going to pretend that Carcking didn't just give HiG an idea for how to produce even more headaches among rules lawyers.  :) )

In any event, I have added the siege escape to the Order of Play in the new CAR.

Note also that there is a slight difference in the rules between Cathars and Cults & Sieges -- the C&S rules allow escape if the cloister directly borders any part of the besieged city.


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