Author Topic: Order of play in french  (Read 1618 times)

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2019, 12:31:47 PM »
Thanks, the corrections of the french rules are almost done. One more clarification for the WICA crop circle page:

I think one of those two points may be false, as they imply a contradiction:
- If you do not have any meeples of the indicated type in play, but you placed the tile, you must still choose A or B. so the active player can chose an action he won't be able to perform (B if he doesn't have any meeple of the indicated type) ?
- If you do not have any meeples of the indicated type in play and did not place the tile, you do not perform the chosen action. So every player except the active player has to skip the action if they don't have the indicated meeple type. And what about the active player if he doesn't have any meeple of the indicated type ?

And this one seems strange to me:
- Once all players have performed the chosen action, play resumes, starting with the player on your left. So the end of the active player's turn is skipped (builder action, + siege for C1 rules) ?

Cheers
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 12:42:38 PM by corinthiens13 »
Order of play in french with every major expansions, mini expansions and promo tiles :
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=346

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2019, 02:01:50 PM »
Thanks, the corrections of the french rules are almost done. One more clarification for the WICA crop circle page:

No problem. Let's see your questions...

I think one of those two points may be false, as they imply a contradiction:
- If you do not have any meeples of the indicated type in play, but you placed the tile, you must still choose A or B. so the active player can chose an action he won't be able to perform (B if he doesn't have any meeple of the indicated type) ?
- If you do not have any meeples of the indicated type in play and did not place the tile, you do not perform the chosen action. So every player except the active player has to skip the action if they don't have the indicated meeple type. And what about the active player if he doesn't have any meeple of the indicated type ?

The active player will always have to choose between A or B. Not having a meeple of the indicated type can be used in your favor (you as the active player), for example, with option B, as you can force other players to remove meeples from features you may be interested in claiming later without affecting you if don't have the indicated meeple type in play. Imagine you force all player to remove farmers and then you start a field claiming spree.

Option A is a bit different since the original HiG rules state that players may choose to add the meeple or not.

So here you have a mix of luck and strategy. The active player decides the action to perform but:
* Option A: players may comply optionally but only if they have a meeple of the indicated type in play.
* Option B: players have to comply with the removal of a meeple except those without a meeple of the indicated type in play.
Not having a meeple of the indicated type may affect any player, including the active player.

So I don't see any contradiction. Did I miss anything?

And this one seems strange to me:
- Once all players have performed the chosen action, play resumes, starting with the player on your left. So the end of the active player's turn is skipped (builder action, + siege for C1 rules) ?

Cheers!

You are interpreting the rules here literally but, as you say, other actions need to be performed before the next player's turn starts. Crop circles do not cut short the active player's turn.

I added a clarification on this to the WICA Crop Circles pages for C1 and C2. 
* C1: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles_(1st_edition)
* C2: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles

Thanks again for sharing your questions.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 02:07:52 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2019, 03:17:05 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for your clarifications. Here's what I think is a contradiction :

"- If you do not have any meeples of the indicated type in play and did not place the tile, you do not perform the chosen action."

Written like this, we may think that the active player (who placed the tile) can't skip the chosen action.
I'd remove the "and did not place the tile", as it doesn't matter if you placed the tile or not, if you do not have any meeples of the indicated type, you do not perform the chosen action.

Let me know what you think  :)

Cheers!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2019, 03:53:01 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for your clarifications. Here's what I think is a contradiction :

"- If you do not have any meeples of the indicated type in play and did not place the tile, you do not perform the chosen action."

Written like this, we may think that the active player (who placed the tile) can't skip the chosen action.
I'd remove the "and did not place the tile", as it doesn't matter if you placed the tile or not, if you do not have any meeples of the indicated type, you do not perform the chosen action.

Let me know what you think  :)

Cheers!

Hi corinthiens13,

Your comment makes total sense. If you analize the wording, the "and did not place the tile" part is not necessary and is a bit misleading. I just noted that on WICA too. This caondition applies to all players.

The ZMG translation does not follow sentence by sentence the HiG rules. So it seems they rewrote the ideas behind the original text but not always hit the target.

You can check the result here for C2:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles

The C1 rules are clearer and closer to the original intent IMHO.

Thanks again.

Cheers!

Cheers!

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2019, 12:15:28 AM »
Hi,

Thanks for the correction. Now that I don't have other questions, I updated the file to version 3.7 with correction of the crop circles, labyrinth and messages rules, plus a few other improvements.

Cheers !

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2019, 12:30:02 AM »
Awesome!!! Looking forward to seeing the new version!  :(y)

Do not forget the C2 scoring board  ;)

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2019, 12:33:34 PM »
Awesome!!! Looking forward to seeing the new version!  :(y)

Do not forget the C2 scoring board  ;)

The C2 scoring board has also been added ;)

Cheers !

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2019, 01:22:45 PM »
Nice work, corinthiens13!

Are you planning a mega-Carcassonne session to put the full document to the test?

Cheers! 

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2019, 01:33:42 PM »
Yes, on the 1st of September   :))

But I can't test Solovei Razboynik and Vodyanoy as I don't have them  :-\

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2019, 10:15:48 AM »
Hi corinthiens13,

You could create a couple fan tiles to replicate the same effect  >:D

Those tiles are very difficult and expensive to get these days

Cheers!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 10:18:41 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2019, 01:49:36 AM »
You could create a couple fan tiles to replicate the same effect  >:D

Hi,

That'd be an idea  ;)

One new question for Vodyanoy, I think we should add a note that if Vodyanoy's tile is placed next to a public bath, it doesn't affect the public bath (else it wouldn't be possible to complete any feature without losing a meeple for the rest of the game (it'd go on the public bath and then on vodyanoy and it isn't possible to get them back), that wouldn't make any sense).

I guess Vodyanoy affects every other meeples but it doesn't affect:
 - The usual "untouchable" castles, city of Carcassonne, city of Leipzig and barns
 - Neutral figures (fairy, mage, witch, dragon...etc)
 - Special figures (builder, pig, shepherd)

Is that correct ?

Cheers !
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 01:52:01 AM by corinthiens13 »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2019, 03:56:48 PM »
You could create a couple fan tiles to replicate the same effect  >:D

Hi,

That'd be an idea  ;)

One new question for Vodyanoy, I think we should add a note that if Vodyanoy's tile is placed next to a public bath, it doesn't affect the public bath (else it wouldn't be possible to complete any feature without losing a meeple for the rest of the game (it'd go on the public bath and then on vodyanoy and it isn't possible to get them back), that wouldn't make any sense).

Hi corinthiens13,

I've been researching a bit on this issue and I discovered the Vodyanoy rules in Russian allow players to remove trapped meeples the same as for Solovei Razboynik.

The German translations on CarcF are okay and they are based on the translation into English by MrNumbers posted here on CarcC.

* CarcC: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2852.msg43134#msg43134
* CarcF: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=3413#p43466

German Rules published on CarcF:

* https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=309&t=3750

I don't know where rules in English, and therefore all others derived from them, missed these two details in some cases:
1. The player can remove a meeple from the Vodyanoy tile instead of placing a meeple, the same as for Solovei Razboynik. This is normally omitted as mentioned above.
2. After the Vodyanoy tile is placed, any meeple placed on tiles adjacent to the Vodyanoy tile will also be moved to the Vodyanoy tile. This is not clear in some translations and you may infer meeples are only trapped when the Vodyanoy is just placed.

So meeples will not be trapped forever but the game may turn out very tedious if after each scoring you have to rescue your meeple from Vodyanoy.

I guess Vodyanoy affects every other meeples but it doesn't affect:
 - The usual "untouchable" castles, city of Carcassonne, city of Leipzig and barns
 - Neutral figures (fairy, mage, witch, dragon...etc)
 - Special figures (builder, pig, shepherd)

Is that correct ?

Cheers !

So I have updated WICA to reflect these new findings and additional clarifications about figures affected both by Vodyamoy and Solovei Razboynik.

Note: Pigs and builders are not affected directly but if the last of their supporting meeples is removed, they will be removed and sent back to their player's supply.

I also suggested a house rule to make bathhouses immune to the Vodyanoy tile. Solovei Razboynik doesn't have the same problem with bathhouses as they are a separate feature from a road.

So I updated the following WICA pages:
* Russian Promos page: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)
* Order of Play in all reference sections for C1, C2 and WE:
  - C1: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play_(1st_edition)
  - C2: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play
  - WE: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Winter_Order_of_Play

You may find some more details on the translation from Russian on the discussion page for the Russian Promos, where you can access all the original material with your own eyes.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Talk:Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)

Cheers!

EDIT: Extended information on modified pages and additional info on the translation of the Russian original rules.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 04:05:34 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2019, 09:57:48 AM »
Hi,

Thanks for all your answers ! I updated the document to ver 3.8, corrected Solovei Razboynik and Vodyanoy's rules, plus a few other improvements.

Cheers !

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2019, 11:41:15 PM »
Hi corinthiens13,

Nice work!

I just realized the Labyrinth tile on page 11 is the C1 tile. It is certainly more eye-catching than its C2 counterpart.

Cheers!

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Order of play in french
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2019, 11:58:53 PM »
Hi corinthiens13,

Nice work!

I just realized the Labyrinth tile on page 11 is the C1 tile. It is certainly more eye-catching than its C2 counterpart.

Cheers!

Hi,

Exactly, I must admit I really don't like the c2 labyrinth tile. So this one will remain c1  ;)

Cheers!


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