Author Topic: What constitutes a scoring event for Messengers / Dispatches?  (Read 458 times)

Offline tothederby

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1. There are two parts to awarding points for a Wheel of Fortune event
- a) acting on the instructions for the particular sector of the wheel and
- b) points for where the followers sit on the crown spaces.
For the Messengers expansion, are these 2 different and separate scoring events or only one?

2. When scoring completed features during a cycle of a turn, does the scoring of each feature count as a trigger for Messengers (a scoring event) or is it only after the last of the completed features is scored that the scoring event is finished and it triggers drawing a messages tile?

3.  Linked to 2. above, do things like the award of ringmaster points, watchtower points, points from meeples in the Leipzig quarters, count as separate scoring events for Messengers?


Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4246.0

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: What constitutes a scoring event for Messengers / Dispatches?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2019, 03:35:54 PM »
Hi tothederby,

Please check the Rounds of Scoring section on Mini #2 - The Messages for C2 (link to WICA):

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring

You'll see that of you combine several expansions, you may have multiple rounds of scoring during one turn. Each round of scoring may combine several scoring events that will only allow to draw one message tile at most, even if your counting figures stop on a dark space more than once.

So back to your questions...

1. There are two parts to awarding points for a Wheel of Fortune event
- a) acting on the instructions for the particular sector of the wheel and
- b) points for where the followers sit on the crown spaces.
For the Messengers expansion, are these 2 different and separate scoring events or only one?

As per the explanation above, there are two scoring events but only one round of scoring, so the active player may get one message tops.

2. When scoring completed features during a cycle of a turn, does the scoring of each feature count as a trigger for Messengers (a scoring event) or is it only after the last of the completed features is scored that the scoring event is finished and it triggers drawing a messages tile?

Scoring completed features happens in one single round of scoring, so only one message can be drawn.

3.  Linked to 2. above, do things like the award of ringmaster points, watchtower points, points from meeples in the Leipzig quarters, count as separate scoring events for Messengers?

There are several scoring events in a round of scoring, so only one message can be drawn.

Cheers!

Offline tothederby

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Re: What constitutes a scoring event for Messengers / Dispatches?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2019, 01:53:56 PM »
Many thanks Meepledrone - again I really appreciate all your responses and answers - it is really helping me structure my understanding.

If I understand correctly there is an important difference between scoring ROUNDS and scoring EVENTS.

I count 10 scoring rounds per cycle of a turn, as follows.  By cycle, I mean ignoring repeat builder turns / cycles and auction turns / cycles.  Is this the correct list of scoring rounds?

i.   Award of 1 fairy point at the start of a turn
ii.   Wheel of Fortune action and follower points
iii.   Award of 3 points for placement of a wind rose tile
iv.   Removal and scoring of an abbot
v.   Scoring of a completed acrobat pyramid
vi.   Herd the flock points
vii.   Points from harvesting or selling fruit
viii.   After scoring all completed features in that cycle of a turn
ix.   Scoring of a circus tile
x.   Scoring from a fair tile / catapult

For scoring events, it seems this drives when a Robber may get to work - so scoring round viii. above has multiple scoring events and each event can trigger a robber action (watchtower points, 3 fairy points, Leipzig points, ringmaster points, teacher points as well as each completed feature...).  Is this correct?

For ii. above (W of F), does each of the 2 scoring steps of W of F trigger a robber action (WofF action; scoring followers on crown spaces)?


Offline Meepledrone

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Re: What constitutes a scoring event for Messengers / Dispatches?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2019, 06:08:57 PM »
Hi tothederby,

Many thanks Meepledrone - again I really appreciate all your responses and answers - it is really helping me structure my understanding.

If I understand correctly there is an important difference between scoring ROUNDS and scoring EVENTS.

CORRECT.

I count 10 scoring rounds per cycle of a turn, as follows.  By cycle, I mean ignoring repeat builder turns / cycles and auction turns / cycles.  Is this the correct list of scoring rounds?

i.   Award of 1 fairy point at the start of a turn
ii.   Wheel of Fortune action and follower points
iii.   Award of 3 points for placement of a wind rose tile
iv.   Removal and scoring of an abbot
v.   Scoring of a completed acrobat pyramid
vi.   Herd the flock points
vii.   Points from harvesting or selling fruit
viii.   After scoring all completed features in that cycle of a turn
ix.   Scoring of a circus tile
x.   Scoring from a fair tile / catapult

WRONG. You mentioned 10 scoring events that can generate messages. There are others that do not generate messages such us: points payments related to auctions or tower ransoms, for example.

Scoring rounds group scoring events so no more than one message can be drawn even if several scoring events happen and your scoring figures land on a dark space more then once.

The Scoring Rounds can be seen here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring

That is a version of the original clarification by HiG in 10/2014:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1113.msg13390#msg13390

So all in all there are up to six scoring rounds in a normal turn as per the interpretation of the clarification. I list them next numbering them after the Steps they occur in the Order of Play (I include also the scoring events  -some of them newer than the clarification and the last CAR update- happening in each scoring round and the associated robber action):

>> 1A. Beginning of turn:

- Fairy point (+ Robbers - one player may score/ Robber Choice - several players may score if fairy assigned to acrobats)

>> 1B. After drawing tile, before placing tile:

- Wheel of Fortune sector action (+ Robber Choice - several players may score)
- Wheel of Fortune crown scoring (+ Robber Choice - several players may score)

>> 1C. After drawing and placing tile:

- Wind rose 3 points (+ Robbers - one player scores)

>> 2. End of "Move Wood" phase :

- Score acrobat pyramid (+ Robber Choice - several players may score)
- Score removed abbot (+ Robbers - one player scores)
- Shepherd after “herd flock into stable” action (the field extended) (+ Robbers - one player scores)
- Shepherd after “herd flock into stable” action (the field was closed) (+ Robber Choice - several players may score)
- Fruit-bearing harvesting (+ Robbers - one player scores)
- Fruit-bearing selling (+ Robbers - one player scores)

>> 3. Scoring phase :

- Scoring feature: Cities, Roads, Monasteries, Castles, etc. (+ Robber Choice - several players may score)
  - This may also involve scoring the Gingerbread Man, Fairy points, Watchtowers, Ringmasters and the Teacher,
- Circus scoring (+ Robber Choice - several players may score)
- Gingerbread Man moved to a new uncompleted city after placing new Gingerbread Man tile (+ Robber Choice - several players may score)

>> 4. End of turn :

- Catapult points (+ Robbers - one player may score at a time)

For scoring events, it seems this drives when a Robber may get to work - so scoring round viii. above has multiple scoring events and each event can trigger a robber action (watchtower points, 3 fairy points, Leipzig points, ringmaster points, teacher points as well as each completed feature...).  Is this correct?

CORRECT. See the listing above.

For ii. above (W of F), does each of the 2 scoring steps of W of F trigger a robber action (WofF action; scoring followers on crown spaces)?

CORRECT.

I'm still deciding on the interpretation of the clarification regarding when the message tile is drawn and played. The official clarification seems to indicate for round #2 After "Move Wood", the the message is drawn after all figures are played and scored. This leads me to think that Messages shouldn't interrupt a scoring round abruptly but wait until all is done for a scoring round and then draw the message tile and act accordingly. See the following reply to you for more details on my reasoning:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4234.msg62463#msg62463

The wording of question #4 is even clearer regarding my suspitions, and it makes sense:

===
4. The rules for the Messages refer to “scoring rounds,” as all features scored in one “scoring round” are counted together, and only at the end of a “scoring round” is it determined if a follower is on a dark space. 
===

According to the final conclusion I will update the Order of Play accordingly and the pages for C1 and C2 Mini #2 - Messages. The Order of Play contains updated stuff but some steps still follow the CAR Order of Play and need to be revised (check the laconic WoF events).

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 06:57:42 AM by Meepledrone »


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