Author Topic: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?  (Read 305 times)

Offline Windekind

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Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« on: March 17, 2019, 07:09:20 AM »
While reading the rules in wikicarpedia I didn't get it, that the Fairy must stand next to a single Meeple or that it may stand next to several.

Extract from the wikicarpedia
Exp. 10 - Under the Big Top: You may assign the fairy to an acrobat, in which case it counts for all acrobats in the pyramid (regardless of color). If the fairy is still there at the beginning of your turn, you score 1 point for each of your meeples in the pyramid - This case relaxes the restriction that only one meeple can receive points from the fairy.
The Flier (Flying Machines): Only one meeple can be "next to" (or connected to) the fairy. Thus, only one meeple will receive points from the fairy. Even if another meeple is placed in the same feature on the same tile (as with the Flying Machines), this would not be considered "next to" the fairy.
Crop Circles: Only one follower can be "next to" (or connected to) the fairy. Thus, only one follower will receive points from the fairy. Even if another follower is placed in the same feature on the same tile (as with the Crop Circles), this would not be considered "next to" the fairy.

At the 'Under the Big Top' can the fairy stand at multiple meeple and at 'The Flier' & 'Crop Circles' not. Why?

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4244.0

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2019, 08:52:30 AM »
Hi Windekind!

Long time no talk.

There is no official explanation as far as I know. It is a question physical (im)possibility on one hand, maybe spiced up by the fact that acrobat pyramids are a figure-based feature (the only one existing in Carcassonne up to date).

On the physical side of things:
  • The Flier and the Crop Circles cases are the rule. You can shift around the meeples on a tile to clarify which one is protected by the fairy.
  • The UtBT case is a bit different as the meeples form a pyramid and do not share the same plane. You could place the fairy next to any of the meeples at the base of the pyramid, buy how do you place it next to the one on top? Laying the fairy on its side? Placing it away from the pyramid on the tile? What if there are other non-acrobat meeples on the tile and the tile gets overpopulated? Too many questions.

If I find out anything I'll let you know. If anyone can shed some light on this matter, please speak up.

Cheers!

Offline Halfling

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Re: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 09:52:31 AM »
I thought that the Fairy is placed on a tile and that the Fairy stops the Dragon from moving onto her tile.
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Offline Willem

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Re: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2019, 11:21:12 AM »
My thoughts where the same
The fairy is assigned to a tile, and benefits every meeple on that tile.
The fairy will prevent the dragon from moving onto the tile, and will provide 1 point per meeple of a player on that tile at the beginning of their turn
Additionally it gives an extra point to completed features that include the tile the fairy is on
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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 12:39:24 PM »
Hi Halfling and Willem!

As per the rules the fairy is assigned to a meeple or to an acrobat pyramid by extension from a meeple.

1. The fairy is assigned to one meeple:

You can check this out in the rules here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_fairy


There you can read the following a fter the 2. Placing a meeple box:

===
When the fairy is standing next to one of your meeples, it can help that meeple in 3 different ways:
===

2. The extended effect of the fairy when assigned to an acrobat:

Regarding the relaxation of the "fairy assigned to one meeple only" restriction when the fairy is assigned to an acrobat, the rules provide the following clarification:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy

===
Exp. 10 - Under the Big Top: You may assign the fairy to an acrobat, in which case it counts for all acrobats in the pyramid (regardless of color). If the fairy is still there at the beginning of your turn, you score 1 point for each of your meeples in the pyramid.
===

3. Tile-wide dragon protection vs. being assigned to the fairy

Regarding the dragon and the fairy, as the dragon cannot be placed on the same tile as the fairy, any figure there on the dragon's menu is protected as a consequence. But this is a different thing from all the meeples on a tile with the fairy being assigned the fairy by default.

Therefore, assigning the fairy to all the meeples on a tile is a simplification of the official rules, implemented for example in JCZ as an option.

Cheers!

Offline JT Atomico

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Re: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2019, 03:26:47 AM »
My half memory of this (I haven't looked up the rules to cite, sorry) is that this is actually a difference between the original German rules and the English translation.

In the original German rules, the Fairy is assigned to one follower on the tile. It protects the whole tile from the Dragon, but only one follower benefits from the Fairy points.

In the English translation, the Fairy protects the whole tile and all followers benefit from Fairy points.

Can anyone confirm that? Or am I talking nonsense?

Offline Willem

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Re: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2019, 05:52:09 AM »
According to the CAR, that's right.
In the original HiG rules, the fairy is placed next to a specific follower, Accor to ZMG rules, it is on the tile.
I'm hesitant on following the wikicarpedia, as this is a fan-made version of the rules.
I'll check my rule books from the expansions later today at home.

I think it can be just a difference that was made in translation, or even version, so in the end I guess it can be up to the player(s) to decide which to follow

Offline Halfling

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Re: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 08:02:22 AM »
 If the old carc rules mention both, which are both published so both correct, will Wikicarpedia follow suit?

And just as importantly, how does Jcz apply the rule for our tournaments?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 08:20:07 AM by Halfling »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Can the fairy be with several Meeples?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 01:38:19 PM »
Hi guys!

The excerpts I mentioned in my previous posts were taken directly from the C2 ZMG P&D manuals, that follow the HiG original rules from 2016. 

My half memory of this (I haven't looked up the rules to cite, sorry) is that this is actually a difference between the original German rules and the English translation.

In the original German rules, the Fairy is assigned to one follower on the tile. It protects the whole tile from the Dragon, but only one follower benefits from the Fairy points.

In the English translation, the Fairy protects the whole tile and all followers benefit from Fairy points.

Can anyone confirm that? Or am I talking nonsense?

You are right, JT Atomico. The C1 P&D rules by RGG and ZMG state that the fairy is placed on a tile with one or your followers. Later clarifications by HiG corrected this loose interpretation of the rules so the CAR and Wikicarpedia are faithful to this ruling as of 05/2013, later confirmed by HiG in the C2 P&D rules from 2016. Both rules compilations include comments on this matter in the sections dedicated to the Fairy in C1 P&D.

According to the CAR, that's right.
In the original HiG rules, the fairy is placed next to a specific follower, Accor to ZMG rules, it is on the tile.
I'm hesitant on following the wikicarpedia, as this is a fan-made version of the rules.
I'll check my rule books from the expansions later today at home.

I think it can be just a difference that was made in translation, or even version, so in the end I guess it can be up to the player(s) to decide which to follow

To ease you mind, Willem, the Wikicarpedia is based on the following sources:
* The CAR 7.4, that was last updated in 05/2013.
* The clarifications by HiG form 10/2015 shared by kettlefish (See http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2125.0) that are not in the CAR
* All the manuals for the C1 & C2 expansions released later than 05/2013.

So the rules come from the CAR plus existing manuals and clarifications. What is worrying you?

If the old carc rules mention both, which are both published so both correct, will Wikicarpedia follow suit?

Regarding your question, Halfling, Wikicarpedia follows:
* The CAR approach for C1 P&D, as a I mentioned earlier (HiG rules plus comments on RGG and ZMG C1 rules)
* The ZMG rules for C2, matching HiG

And just as importantly, how does Jcz apply the rule for our tournaments?

Good question. JCZ allows both settings but the default one is the HiG behavior: the fairy is assigned to a follower.

Cheers!


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