Author Topic: Carcassonne Condensed Rules  (Read 1011 times)

Offline tothederby

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Merit: 1
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« on: March 12, 2019, 04:18:35 PM »
I wanted a shortened version of CAR that would capture all the key elements of play and could be kept with the game, updated for the more recent expansions. I have unashamedly taken parts of CAR 7.4 (thank you obervet, Skull One et al) and also copied and pasted from Wikicarpedia (thank you meepledrone et al) to pull together a condensed set of rules, attached as a pdf.
 
I still have questions (highlighted in blue) and I have had to interpret in some areas (highlighted in yellow), potentially incorrectly.

I have not included Halflings, and only very lightly covered Expansion 7. The Catapult.  I have only considered the official expansions plus the promo tiles.  I have worked from New Edition rules as a starting point (so there may be variations to earlier rules).

I would value any corrections to improve the robustness of the document and iron out mistakes. I am sure there are quite a few! I am sorry the post is quite long but I hope the questions I have are interesting and helpful.

Many thanks in anticipation.


The specific questions I have (in the order they appear in the pdf) are the following:

1. Messengers: if a message tile is drawn and it is the 'Add a landscape' tile, you can place the drawn landscape tile and place a meeple on it as normal.  Do you also score the tile?
2. Robbers: when an opponent's scoring meeple or messenger moves during a turn that is not yours, can you still score points (or can you only score points during your turn)?
3. Wheel of Fortune scoring event: there are two parts to awarding points for a Wheel of Fortune event (acting on the instructions for the particular sector of the wheel and points for where the followers sit on the crown spaces). For Messengers, are these 2 different and separate scoring events or only one?
4. Spread the plague by placing a flea: I believe this cannot happen at any time during a turn, but rather it must happen any time after drawing a tile.  This is because of this sentence in the rules: "The player who drew the [plague source] tile may not place a flea token in this turn, having instead the privilege of choosing where the Outbreak will occur."
5. Likewise a bridge can only be built any time after placing a tile (the tile needs to be paced before the bridge can be placed).
6. La Porxada
6a) SWAPPING: what does it mean to swap meeples? does this mean swap places with each other? or does it mean to take possession of the other player's meeple in their respective current locations? or does it mean both? Swapping places may be illegal (a barn cannot be placed in a city etc.) so it would seem to point to 'taking possession' with meeples remaining in situ.  Any insights or thoughts?
6b) TAGGING: How do you tag or track that a different coloured meeple now belongs to you (and the other player)? This I guess is more an issue if a normal meeple is swapped.
7. Princess & the knight.  The new rules use the word 'may' not 'must': "you may remove one knight of your choice (even your own)" and I have adopted this (I note the recent thread discussion on this).  From this, I consider this princess action becomes part of the 'Move the Wood' phase 1 - there is no longer a need to insist the action is taken before making the extensive choice of other Move the Wood actions and indeed by moving it into 'Move the Wood' it extend the strategic choices of the active player.
8. Excluded features for deployment. 
8a) I have said for flier and magic portal movement, fairy placement, dragon movement, redeployment out of the City of Carcassonne and placement of special & neutral figures (except the Count to Carcassonne), then meeples and figures cannot be deployed to the City of Carcassone, City of Leipzig, Wheel of Fortune crown spaces and expansion 8 castles.  Is this correct?
8b) Some further details are shown in the table of the attached pdf on page 8.  Are the assertions made in the table correct?
9. Completed field: there is a reference in the rules for shepherds that says: "Exception: If any player completes a field with shepherds and sheep by fully surrounding it by roads and cities, immediately resolve the Guide the flock to the stable action for that field."  Does this mean that a field can be completed before the end of the game?  And if so, does it mean it can be (should be) scored (through the act of completion & needing to resolve a completed feature) before the end of the game?
10. Expansion 8 castle completion: can an expansion 8 castle that was created on first placement of a tile be completed on a builder repeat turn?  Or do you have to wait until a brand new turn before completing it?  Or could you even create it and complete it in the same turn / cycle?  I can’t find any reference in ZMG to a rule that says you need to wait until the next turn or cycle. However, from CAR 7.4 in footnote 304 it says: “The RGG version of the rules states that the castle scores only “when the first feature … in the vicinity of the castle is later completed” (emphasis added) – while a subsequent turn is not specifically mentioned, it seems apparent in both rule sets that a feature that is completed on the turn that the castle is built does not allow the castle to score.”  But in CAR 7.4 on page 99 it says: “The follower in the castle always receives points for the next structure to be completed. It may not be left in play in order to receive points for a structure which might be completed later.”  To satisfy this latter point, if on first tile placement you complete two features, the first of which you convert to a castle and the second of which then completes the castle, do you not need to complete the castle and score it, all in the one turn?
11. Scoring order of completed features: I’ve seen references to “Each player receiving points chooses the order in which features resolve.”  I’ve struggled with this.  If more than one player is receiving points from a number of different features that have completed, who decides which feature is scored first etc.?  I have assumed the order for scoring is decided only by the active player.  I hope this is correct?
12. Redeployment from City of Carcassonne: 
12a) Can an abbot meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to a garden? 
12b) Can a meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to Baba Yaga’s hut?
13. Deployment to Leipzig.  It would be helpful to (exhaustively) define what does not break a road connection to Leipzig and what does. I have presumed small village, house, crossroads, road junction, trees or other incidental or minor feature (such as fruit trees, bazaar, bath house or festival) do not break the connection.  I have presumed cities, towers / tower foundations, lakes without a ferry connection, Bogatyr stone, Solovei Razboynik tree, acrobat spaces, circus spaces, crop circles, watch towers, shrines, abbeys, all types of monasteries, castles (German or expansion 8), German cathedrals, the city of Carcassonne, the Wheel of Fortune and the school do break the connection.  I am puzzled why the footnotes on Wikicarpedia suggest monasteries do not break the road connection – I have presumed they do.  Does this all work?
14. Watchtowers: does an expansion 8 castle qualify as a completed feature for scoring watchtowers?
15. Scoring Leipzig: If you have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter, do you score for special monastery functioning as a monastery, abbey tile, Darmstadt church, shrine or Baba Yaga’s hut.
16. Scoring Messages: With each new expansion added, there now seems to be quite a few scoring events during each Step 7 of the order of play (Leipzig, watchtowers, ringmaster points, teacher, fairy).  Does not each one of these separately represent a scoring event for the purposes of messenger scoring?  I am sure I’m missing a vital rule element that would make sense of this for me.
17. Besieged city.  Can only one knight escape through one monastery per turn (ie. The monastery once used is exhausted as an escape route that turn)?
18. Tiles next to monasteries: A German castle tile counts as one tile in completing a monastery (and reduces the score from 9 to 8 on completion).  Is this also true if the 4x4 wheel of fortune tile is next to a monastery (reducing the completion score to 6)? Or one of the City of Carcassonne 2x3 tiles?


Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4234.0

Offline Halfling

  • Baron
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Merit: 48
  • Welcome tournament 2015 winner.
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 01:56:42 AM »
I am incensed. Do I not exist?
The Geek shall inherit the earth if we get a good die role

Offline Decar

  • Global Moderator
  • Chatelain Officier
  • *
  • Posts: 5327
  • Merit: 238
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 10:15:31 AM »
Welcome to the forum tothederby, what an entrance!

Please ignore Halfling's ill-mannered welcome.

I've only had a briefest look at your document, but it's quite substantial!

I think it might be a good idea to open separate threads for these questions, that way conversation can focus on each of them without crossing over!

The WICA team are very active on slack too!

Offline tothederby

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Merit: 1
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 10:49:46 AM »
Thank you very much Decar for the kind welcome - I really appreciate it.  Also thank you for the advice to split this into different threads - I will do that.  Thanks too for all the work you and team and the broader community have done / do to pin down the rules, and improve their interpretation and usability - it is an enormous help when trying to understand all the interactions.

My apologies to you Halfling.  I am being / have been selfish I admit.  I do own quite a few expansions but Halflings is not one of them.  What I have read at Carcassonne Central and elsewhere is that it can have quite complex interactions with other expansions and in interpretation on how to handle those.  I wanted to first establish solid ground for the other expansions before any attempt to then interweave Halflings in.  I hope you can forgive and help me with any thoughts on what I currently have....?

My thanks also to Skull One.  I contacted Skull One initially and he suggested posting this initial thread to share the document.

I would really value any and all comments on the doc itself if possible (appreciating it is involved and content dense).



Offline Meepledrone

  • Global Moderator
  • Viscount
  • *
  • Posts: 780
  • Merit: 89
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 06:05:12 PM »
Hi again tothederby!!!

Welcome to the forums. This is getting quite fun for rule completionists... ;D

I also contacted Skull One a couple of days ago about the Order of Play and this has become a raging party. Let's have fun!!!!  O0

@Halfling: If you feel forsaken and lonely, just read this and cry...  :o

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)

Cheers!

PS: I forgot to give you a +1 merit from me for sharing your effort. Enjoy!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 04:16:31 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline tothederby

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Merit: 1
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 05:57:57 PM »
Many thanks Meepledrone - i really appreciate it.

I've updated the pdf to include an order of play flowchart which builds off the work of Christopher May (he had posted a version of this a while ago - thank you for that Christopher).  And it now includes a list of expansions I've attempted to cover so far.

I still have loads of questions but don't want to monopolise the forum!

Offline tothederby

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Merit: 1
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 06:03:58 PM »
Flowchart attached here

Offline tothederby

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Merit: 1
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2019, 02:30:26 PM »
Flowchart with updates for Robbers and Messengers (pending clarifications!)

Offline Halfling

  • Baron
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Merit: 48
  • Welcome tournament 2015 winner.
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2019, 01:58:05 AM »
Hi again tothederby!!!

Welcome to the forums. This is getting quite fun for rule completionists... ;D

I also contacted Skull One a couple of days ago about the Order of Play and this has become a raging party. Let's have fun!!!!  O0

@Halfling: If you feel forsaken and lonely, just read this and cry...  :o

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)

Cheers!

PS: I forgot to give you a +1 merit from me for sharing your effort. Enjoy!


I cannot play Carcassonne any more due to Brexit.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 07:14:14 AM by Decar, Reason: misquoted »

Offline Decar

  • Global Moderator
  • Chatelain Officier
  • *
  • Posts: 5327
  • Merit: 238
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2019, 07:14:00 AM »
You've been given a 2 week extension at least.

Offline Willem

  • Marquis
  • ***
  • Posts: 542
  • Merit: 35
  • Too many... expansions!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2019, 12:23:08 PM »
I have to apply for a visa now to be registered as a foreign carcassonne player
To be or not to:
A.  B
B.  C
C.  P

Offline Meepledrone

  • Global Moderator
  • Viscount
  • *
  • Posts: 780
  • Merit: 89
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2019, 12:36:25 PM »
Hi all!

I cannot play Carcassonne any more due to Brexit.

Are you now playing York instead?

You've been given a 2 week extension at least.

Is Two Weeks an new expansion for Carcassonne released for UK only? Are you including it in the Brexit Order of Play? Too long waiting for some UK-themed expansion. I'm afraid this is the origin of it all.

I have to apply for a visa now to be registered as a foreign carcassonne player

Please let us know the updated Brexit rules. We are sooooo intrigued in the rest of Europe....

Cheers!

Offline Meepledrone

  • Global Moderator
  • Viscount
  • *
  • Posts: 780
  • Merit: 89
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2019, 05:58:07 PM »
Hi tothederby,

Flowchart with updates for Robbers and Messengers (pending clarifications!)

I've revised several details in the Game Reference and the Order of Play in WICA. Check if there is anything interesting for you:

* Acrobats:
  - The deployment of a normal meeple with a Flying Machine or a Magic Portal
  - The deployment of Phantoms as Acrobats if tile placed adjacent to the acrobat space tile or with a Flying Machine or a Magic Portal

* Gingerbread Man:
  - The Gingerbread Man figure is deployed to a start tile (or city segment on river tile) during game preparation.
  - If a city is completed by a tile with a Gingerbread Man symbol, the Gingerbread Man figure is not moved twice (as it happens in the CAR)

* Robbers:
  - Used ROBBER CHOICE in Order of Play whenever several players can score simultaneously. The CAR only considered this option during 3. Score a feature

* Messages:
  - Used MESSAGES (#XX) to qualify Scoring Round where one message at most can be drawn no matter how many times a scoring figure lands on a dark space as per the official clarifications from 10/2014 available here:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1113.msg13390#msg13390

I'm still evaluating the interpretation of this post as it could be interpreted that, for example, any message drawn during the Move Wood phase (Scoring Round #2) or the Scoring Phase (Scoring Round #3) phase could be performed at the end of the phase after all the scoring events related to figures are carried out. IMHO It is simpler to draw a message and play it after a turn sequence step is completed than interrupting it halfway and resuming the actions after playing the message.

For example, imagine playing "Message #4 - Add a landscape tile" in the middle of a complex scoring where you place a tile that:
* Is adjacent to a Fruit-Bearing tree so you place a meeple on it to harvest fruit tokens.
* Extends a field with your shepherd and you decide to score your flock
* Closes a field with other two other player's shepherds, so they have to score their flocks too
* Completes a monastery that has to be scored.
* Completes a city with watchtowers, two ringmasters and the Gingerbread Man that you have to score for you and other players.
With such number of scoring events, if you land halfway your turn on a dark space and play your Message #4 straight away, you may lose track of what was going on.

The Order of Play should just include a note on what safe spots (at the end of each scoring round) where messages collected during a Scoring Round are to be evaluated. Maybe it is too much inference from the posting above. What do you think?

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 06:19:33 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline tothederby

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Merit: 1
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2019, 02:19:38 PM »
I do hate transmogrification!  Unfortunately I have no idea how to clear my cache Meepledrone.  I can get access to the expansions data on Wikicarpedia but only transmogrification on the order of play pages!!

We do need a new expansion - the "Brexiteers" - with La Manche starter tiles and perhaps large bridges or tunnels or both....

Offline tothederby

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Merit: 1
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2019, 02:21:55 PM »
thanks for the Qs on scoring Meepledrone - I am scratching my head a bit (you may see my post under Messages also)..


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via furl Share via linkedin Share via myspace Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via technorati Share via twitter

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
xx
Response to questions related to Condensed rules

Started by Meepledrone

5 Replies
653 Views
Last post May 05, 2019, 04:08:17 PM
by Meepledrone
xx
Carcassonne Fur 2 rules

Started by nocturnalprelude

5 Replies
729 Views
Last post July 06, 2018, 12:17:58 AM
by aenima
question
Rules for Carcassonne for 2 - English

Started by GreyMeeple

5 Replies
1460 Views
Last post March 10, 2018, 05:13:56 AM
by Maj. Frost
xx
CC II - Carcassonne New Edition - Differences in Rules

Started by kettlefish

27 Replies
2497 Views
Last post May 17, 2018, 11:16:16 AM
by Just a Bill
xx
Carcassonne South Sea - rules questions

Started by Khonnor

6 Replies
5701 Views
Last post December 11, 2013, 05:57:06 AM
by Khonnor