Author Topic: Wikicarpedia - Reference Pages Review - Order of Play  (Read 530 times)

Offline tothederby

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Re: Wikicarpedia - Reference Pages Review - Order of Play
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 02:50:02 PM »
I'd not taken into account the possibility of the dragon movement occurring at different times (I'd taken latest ZMG rules).  Having said that I don't think based on current rules it would interfere with moving the princess and knight step into step 4 Move the Wood phase 1.  But by not doing so though, the range of options is reduced and the sequence I think is unnecessarily forced.  I'm sure I'm still missing something...
 
Should we set up a separate post on Builders + auctions?

On the question of who chooses the order to score completed features, I grasp for Occam's razor which I think would push for leaving the decision with the active player.  The process of it being your turn hands control to you as the active player and gives you a series of choices - this would seem to be an important one.

I've tried your fix for my "transmogrifying" problem (for Internet Explorer) but it hasn't worked.  I am v keen to see your order of play!  I think your idea of being able to dynamically pull extensions together and get a consolidated set of rules for that combinations is fabulous.

Thanks for your clarifications on Leipzig road connectivity.  I think your short list of "small village, house, crossroads, road junction, trees", which adheres strictly to the rules is the way to go.  Perhaps the clarification could centre around "the road is not connected if any active feature cuts across or impedes into the road".  This would also exclude Bazaars and festivals in the long list - it keeps it clean (at least for now)?





 
 

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Wikicarpedia - Reference Pages Review - Order of Play
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 06:48:07 PM »
Hi tothederby!

I'd not taken into account the possibility of the dragon movement occurring at different times (I'd taken latest ZMG rules).  Having said that I don't think based on current rules it would interfere with moving the princess and knight step into step 4 Move the Wood phase 1.  But by not doing so though, the range of options is reduced and the sequence I think is unnecessarily forced.  I'm sure I'm still missing something...

I happened to be reviewing the Big Box 3 rules and to my surprise, the Order of Play included there include the princess and knight step in the "Move Wood" phase. Why do HiG love to make things so complicated sometimes? Why are HiG inconsistent too for time to time?

Should we set up a separate post on Builders + auctions?

No problem. It's a great topic everyone will hate.  :o

On the question of who chooses the order to score completed features, I grasp for Occam's razor which I think would push for leaving the decision with the active player.  The process of it being your turn hands control to you as the active player and gives you a series of choices - this would seem to be an important one.

Fair enough. If no conflict, "each player decides" is equivalent to !the active player decides other players can do as they see fit." In case of conflict, the active player decides.

I've tried your fix for my "transmogrifying" problem (for Internet Explorer) but it hasn't worked.  I am v keen to see your order of play!  I think your idea of being able to dynamically pull extensions together and get a consolidated set of rules for that combinations is fabulous.

Have you tried cleaning your browser cache altogether? What IE version are you using?

Thanks for your clarifications on Leipzig road connectivity.  I think your short list of "small village, house, crossroads, road junction, trees", which adheres strictly to the rules is the way to go.  Perhaps the clarification could centre around "the road is not connected if any active feature cuts across or impedes into the road".  This would also exclude Bazaars and festivals in the long list - it keeps it clean (at least for now)?

I agree is the simplest thing is to stick to the rules here: small village, house, crossroads, road junction, trees. Easy to remember; no one will complain.

Cheers!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Wikicarpedia - Reference Pages Review - Order of Play
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2019, 06:18:53 PM »
Hi Skull One!

Interesting points.  My hangup was on the words (in quotes):  After a pyramid has been scored, "players can start a new pyramid on the same tile" by placing a meeple as an acrobat on it.  I took it to mean they could score the completed feature and then place another meeple.  But I didn't take into account "Instead of placing a meeple or any other figure during 2. Placing a meeple, you can score a completed pyramid" as part of my thought process.  So that's where my failure began. 

After re-read reading the rules and your points, I am of the opinion it still needs further clarification from a programming standpoint.  Later today I am going to right some pseudo code and try to address your points and my concerns and see what shakes out.

I revised several details in the Game Reference and the Order of Play in WICA related to the following areas:

* Acrobats:
  - The deployment of a normal meeple with a Flying Machine or a Magic Portal
  - The deployment of Phantoms as Acrobats if tile placed adjacent to the acrobat space tile or with a Flying Machine or a Magic Portal

* Gingerbread Man:
  - The Gingerbread Man figure is deployed to a start tile (or city segment on river tile) during game preparation.
  - If a city is completed by a tile with a Gingerbread Man symbol, the Gingerbread Man figure is not moved twice (as it happens in the CAR)

* Robbers:
  - Used ROBBER CHOICE in Order of Play whenever several players can score simultaneously. The CAR only considered this option during 3. Score a feature

* Messages:
  - Used MESSAGES (#XX) to qualify Scoring Round where one message at most can be drawn no matter how many times a scoring figure lands on a dark space as per the official clarifications from 10/2014 available here:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1113.msg13390#msg13390

I'm still evaluating the interpretation of this post as it could be interpreted that, for example, any message drawn during the Move Wood phase (Scoring Round #2) or the Scoring Phase (Scoring Round #3) phase could be performed at the end of the phase after all the scoring events related to figures are carried out. IMHO It is simpler to draw a message and play it after a turn sequence step is completed than interrupting it halfway and resuming the actions after playing the message.

For example, imagine playing "Message #4 - Add a landscape tile" in the middle of a complex scoring where you place a tile that:
* Is adjacent to a Fruit-Bearing tree so you place a meeple on it to harvest fruit tokens.
* Extends a field with your shepherd and you decide to score your flock
* Closes a field with other two other player's shepherds, so they have to score their flocks too
* Completes a monastery that has to be scored.
* Completes a city with watchtowers, two ringmasters and the Gingerbread Man that you have to score for you and other players.
With such number of scoring events, if you land halfway your turn on a dark space and play your Message #4 straight away, you may lose track of what was going on.

The Order of Play should just include a note on what safe spots (at the end of each scoring round) where messages collected during a Scoring Round are to be evaluated. Maybe it is too much inference from the posting above. What do you think?

Your feedback is always welcome.  ;D

Cheers!


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