Author Topic: Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers  (Read 463 times)

Offline Finstochian

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Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« on: January 04, 2019, 02:00:49 AM »
Hi all. I have seen this issue has been discussed before but thought I would start a new thread as I try to recall the various ecclesiastical tiles and followers. My initial confusion concerned Monasteries and Cloisters - how were they different? Then I realised that (most of the time) they were synonymous. I try to avoid using the term cloister now.
I have put together a short idiots guide in draft to the tiles and followers for ecclesiastical related matters in Carcassonne and I wondered if you would cast your eye to see if I have this all right? I have compiled it from :
a) Master Rules, May 2015 (v.7.4) in BGG
b) WikiCarpedia
c) Original rules


Ecclesiastical Terms in Carcassonne
Ecclesiastical Tiles
Abbey
A special tile placed in a ‘hole’, surrounded on four sides which terminates all connected features. A follower deployed to an Abbey is termed a Monk

Cathedral 
A City-based tile from Inns and Cathedrals.  A follower deployed here is still called a Knight

German Cathedrals   
A field-based Cathedral that is connected by three or four roads. A follower deployed to a German Cathedral is termed an Archbishop

Cloister (best to avoid use)
Sometimes used as a collective term for a Monastery, Abbey, Cult Place, or German/Dutch/Belgian Monastery OR sometimes used just to describe a monastery

Cult Place or Shrine
A pagan place of worship tile. A follower placed on a Cult tile is termed a Heretic

Garden
Featured on tiles in CII and used with the Abbot extension. Only an Abbot (2) can be deployed here

Monastery, also known as a Cloister in some rules. The terms are synonymous in this instance.
A tile based in a field(s) and may be connected by a road(s). A follower placed on a monastery is called either
1.   A Monk, or
2.   An Abbot (2)

German Monastery or Dutch/Belgian Monastery
A tile based in a field and connected may be connected by a road(s). A follower placed on a German/Dutch/Belgian Monastery is called a Monk or an Abbot (1). A Phantom, Wagon, or flyer can occupy part of the tile BUT in all except the Flier, the tile can only be used for one function – (a) Monk/Abbot(1); Thief; Farmer. The Flyer deployment has rules concerning when a follower can be deployed as a Monk or an Abbot (1).

Vineyard 
Can add to scoring of a Monastery Not scored if a follower is deployed as an Abbot (1) on a German/Dutch/Belgian Monastery

Ecclesiastical Followers
Abbot (1)  A follower placed on a German/Dutch/Belgian Monastery on its side

Abbot (2)  A type of follower introduced in CII that can only be placed on a Monastery or Gardens

Archbishop   A follower placed on a German Cathedral

Heretic   A follower placed on a Cult Place tile

Monk   A follower placed on a Monastery, a German/Dutch/Belgian Monastery or an Abbey


Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4183.0

Offline Sinscerly

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Re: Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2019, 04:09:52 AM »
Hi Finstochian, awesome list-up :(y)

I think, someone was still going to add something like this to the WikiCarpedia (Or I heard something about adding it, dunno).

Maybe add by the "Cathedral" that the cathedral shown on the tile is only for cosmetics. (I personally would've found it really cool, if you could have placed a follower on it as an Monk) ^-^

Cannot find any remarks. Nice done 8)
“It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory.”

Offline jungleboy

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Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2019, 04:34:45 AM »
Nice compilation!

Monastery, also known as a Cloister in some rules. The terms are synonymous in this instance.
A tile based in a field(s) and may be connected by a road(s). A follower placed on a monastery is called either
1.   A Monk, or
2.   An Abbot (2)

Re: the bold part, monasteries/cloisters can also be in cities, e.g. this tile from Princess and Dragon.


Offline Finstochian

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Re: Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2019, 05:46:04 AM »
Ah, thanks. That is one extension I have not got so very helpful.

Online Meepledrone

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Re: Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 08:29:54 AM »
Hi Finstochian,

Great work!

I include below some notes I had put together for the WICA, juat in case you want to add some additional info to your summary:

A cloister/monastery, a shrine, an abbey, a German or Dutch & Belgian monastery, a Japanese Building and a Darmstadt church are basically all equivalent:
* You can place a meeple (other than a mayor) as a monk on any of them
* You complete and score  them when surrounded
* They can get extra point from vineyards and little buildings
* You can use them to remove a knight from a besieged city.
* They can give extra points with Markets of Leipzig
 
Some of then have special features such as:
* Shrines: challenges
* German/Dutch & Belgian monasteries and Japanese buildings: scoring at the end of the game (with meeple placed as a C1 abbot)
* Darmstadt churches (extra scoring)

As a side note:
* You cannot place a meeple on a cathedral. It is treated as part of the city as Sinscerly commented above.
* C2 Abbots can be retrieved and the feature is scored at it is
* Gardens cannot benefit from vineyards or Little Buildings

Offline Eloniel

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Re: Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2019, 09:30:16 AM »
We really need to add this to a disambiguation page on Wikicarpedia ! Thanks ! :)

Offline Finstochian

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Re: Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 10:55:40 AM »
Thanks for all the comments so far.
I have updated the sheet and will await any further comments before re-posting.
A couple of observations and clarifications.
1.  Nicholas Mystikos - thank you. I assume with a Monastery in Princess and the Dragon it behaves as any other monastery?
2. Meepledrone - again, thank you. Same question as above for Japanese Buildings and Darmstadt Churches? I have clarified the Mayor point. I have tried to avoid at this stage how each feature scores and special features as I was trying to get to grips with the different terminology of ecclesiastical related tiles and followers. Do you think it helpful if I added, or should this stand alone? I have added that Gardens cannot benefit from Vineyards or Little Buildings as that clarifies a relationship. On a meeple on a Cathedral - I think I understand - a meeple can be placed on a Cathedral but only in its function as a city tile, so is called a Knight. It has no specific tile-related or other followers that can be deployed.
3. Sinscerely - thanks. I have clarified the point you identify.
4. Thank you Eloniel 

Offline jungleboy

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Re: Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 01:40:18 PM »
1.  Nicholas Mystikos - thank you. I assume with a Monastery in Princess and the Dragon it behaves as any other monastery?

Yes. Per the CAR:

Cloister in the city: When a player deploys a follower here, it must be clearly placed either in the city or on the cloister. If the follower is deployed to the cloister, then the cloister is scored when it is surrounded by eight land tiles, even when the city is not completed. The follower can also be deployed as a monk if there is already a knight in the connected city. The reverse is also true.

Online Meepledrone

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Re: Ecclesiastical Tiles and Followers
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 02:59:38 PM »
Hi Finstochian!

2. Meepledrone - again, thank you. Same question as above for Japanese Buildings and Darmstadt Churches?

Japanese Buildings is a mini expansion with the same rules as German Monasteries. It is considered a New Edition expansion, and the 6 land tiles are aimed at replacing the 6 original monasteries in the base game adding the abbot (1) behaviour. So they are monasteries with an optional extra scoring mechanics.

Darmstadt churches behave like regular monasteries but giving 3 bonus points to player with meeple majority on the church tile and the 8 tiles around it (the number of adjacent tiles may differ if playing with German Castles and/or Halflings).

So in both cases the answer is YES, they behave like monasteries, although both features provide additional mechanics.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 03:02:26 PM by Meepledrone »


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