Author Topic: The Tower (New Edition vs Old)  (Read 791 times)

Offline Mikeagan

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The Tower (New Edition vs Old)
« on: July 02, 2018, 09:59:36 PM »
I was comparing the Rules that come with the ZMAN GAMES English New Edition of this expansion and the CAR 7.4 Rules and noticed a difference.

CAR 7.4 page 52
"Instead of moving the fairy or deploying a follower, builder, or pig, a player may now decide to place one of his or her tower pieces on any tile with a tower foundation which is already in play, or on a tower which is already under construction;114 or to finish the construction of a tower by deploying a follower to the top of it.115"

ZMAN GAMES English New Edition
After placing a tile that has a tower foundation, you may perform one of the four following actions:
Place a Meeple...
Place a Tower Floor on Foundation...
Place a Tower Floor on an open Tower...
Place a Meeple on an open Tower...

It seems the new rules allow interactions with Towers only if a tile with a Tower Foundation is placed, while the CAR allows interactions with Towers with any Tile placement. With the new rules, I feel that there are less opportunities to capture Followers.


BTW, My wife and I just played this expansion for the first time. It was a lot of fun, but definitely a different game.

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3992.0
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SUMMER GINGERBREAD MAN.

Offline Punk0

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Re: The Tower (New Edition vs Old)
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2018, 11:31:08 PM »
I came here because I noticed the exact same thing.  I checked boardgamegeek.com and all the rules related posts were from the old version.  I don't know if this was a conscious change, or they just forgot to put in an important sentence explaining you can add a tower any turn in which you don't place a meeple like in the old rules.  I wish they would specifically mention rule changes in their manuals so we know they weren't just oversights.

Offline danisthirty

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Re: The Tower (New Edition vs Old)
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2018, 04:44:15 AM »
ZMAN GAMES English New Edition
After placing a tile that has a tower foundation, you may perform one of the four following actions:
Place a Meeple...
Place a Tower Floor on Foundation...
Place a Tower Floor on an open Tower...
Place a Meeple on an open Tower...

It seems the new rules allow interactions with Towers only if a tile with a Tower Foundation is placed, while the CAR allows interactions with Towers with any Tile placement. With the new rules, I feel that there are less opportunities to capture Followers.

It's hard to imagine this being anything other than an oversight. ::) The idea that you could only place a tower block in the event that you'd just placed a tile with a tower foundation on it doesn't make sense at all, and completely destroys the way this expansion is supposed to work (i.e. by following the old rules). If we assume that the new rules are correct and you can only place a tower block when you place a tower tile then the number of tower blocks should match the number of tower tiles as there would be no other opportunities to place them. I forget how many tower blocks are included now but it's 30 or 40 isn't it? It's certainly more than 18 (the number of tiles) anyway...

I came here because I noticed the exact same thing.  I checked boardgamegeek.com and all the rules related posts were from the old version.  I don't know if this was a conscious change, or they just forgot to put in an important sentence explaining you can add a tower any turn in which you don't place a meeple like in the old rules.  I wish they would specifically mention rule changes in their manuals so we know they weren't just oversights.

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Offline Mikeagan

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Re: The Tower (New Edition vs Old)
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2018, 09:14:22 AM »
ZMAN GAMES English New Edition
After placing a tile that has a tower foundation, you may perform one of the four following actions:
Place a Meeple...
Place a Tower Floor on Foundation...
Place a Tower Floor on an open Tower...
Place a Meeple on an open Tower...

It seems the new rules allow interactions with Towers only if a tile with a Tower Foundation is placed, while the CAR allows interactions with Towers with any Tile placement. With the new rules, I feel that there are less opportunities to capture Followers.

It's hard to imagine this being anything other than an oversight. ::) The idea that you could only place a tower block in the event that you'd just placed a tile with a tower foundation on it doesn't make sense at all, and completely destroys the way this expansion is supposed to work (i.e. by following the old rules). If we assume that the new rules are correct and you can only place a tower block when you place a tower tile then the number of tower blocks should match the number of tower tiles as there would be no other opportunities to place them. I forget how many tower blocks are included now but it's 30 or 40 isn't it? It's certainly more than 18 (the number of tiles) anyway...

Looking at the PDF on ZMAN Games Website, the rules match the old Rules in that regard.

On the other hand, comparing the printed rules that came in the box to the ones on the website they rewrote almost everything changing the wording trying to be even "clearer" if that is possible and included incomplete interactions with UNDER THE BIG TOP. In "Figures you may place on a tower:" they added the Ringmaster, but they failed to note if he can be captured by the tower or not.

There are 30 tower blocks that come with this expansion... I certainly hope this is an oversight. If not there should only be 18 tower blocks in a community pool to be placed whenever someone is lucky enough to draw a tower foundation tile.

After play testing with the rules that came in the box in a three player game, it became obvious that they can create a huge imbalance of power if you are unlucky and draw very few of the tiles. In a 3 player game my brother drew 12 of the tiles (now he only was able to steal 9 because of player supply), while my wife drew 4 (didn't use them because that is mean) and I only drew 2, he totally dominated us, because we weren't able to capture a lot of his followers while he ended up capturing a lot of mine (he was nice to my wife), preventing me from scoring big features. The few tiles I drew, I was only able to capture followers in a small city (2 tiles) and road (3 tiles) taking away small amounts of points.

Offline Punk0

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Re: The Tower (New Edition vs Old)
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2018, 02:34:40 PM »
Yes, the number of blocks are an indication that they can't be based solely on laying a tower tile, although one person could get a disproportionate number of tower tiles and need more than the others.  I must have read the online instructions or the annotated instructions before playing because I actually played it right the first time.  I was in the middle of playing it last night and going through the instructions that came with the game for a different clarification when I noticed it specified that the new actions happened after laying a tower foundation tile.  Our first game was played with only The Tower expansion and they seemed too strong.  The game we played last night had a few other expansions and by only laying towers when placing tower tiles,  they seemed far too weak with the towers so spread out.  I'll assume that the instructions currently online are the most up to date, and therefore correct.  Thanks for the quick responses.

Offline Decar

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Re: The Tower (New Edition vs Old)
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2018, 11:25:16 PM »
These are the latest rules from zman website.  You can place a wooden tower block on any tile with a foundation.

Note: steps 1 and 2 are not specific to the Tower expansion. They are additions to the base-rules.

Phase 1. Placing a Tile indicates there are no modifications to the tile placement rules for this expansion.

So "After placing your tile" means any tile because it is in the "Placing a Meeple or Tower Floor" phase.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 12:20:11 AM by Decar »

Offline danisthirty

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Re: The Tower (New Edition vs Old)
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2018, 02:46:39 AM »
Thanks Decar, that certainly seems to remove any of the ambiguities of the previous versions of the rules. I wonder when they updated it to this?


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