Author Topic: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage  (Read 8444 times)

Offline glh510

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2018, 03:25:04 AM »
Gratulations MrNumbers, so I only lost against the winner  ;D

Offline danisthirty

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2018, 03:56:18 AM »
Congratulations to MrNumbers on his victory! Here is my account of the second half of our game:

With 4 trapped meeples and no builder, MrNumbers went into this game already at a huge disadvantage. A disadvantage that he extended after just a few tiles by allowing the dragon to eat both of my trapped monks! However, I struggled to capitalise on this and even though I had a lead of 10 - 20 points for most of the game, MrNumbers continued to use everything he had left to keep himself uncomfortably close behind.

The first key point in MrNumbers' favour was when he drew the cfrf tile which he used to free up one of his trapped meeples (completing a road and a small city in the process). He later had the opportunity to place a cloister adjacent to a besieged city that we had both been sharing which enabled his knight to escape back into his supply. I chose to do the same soon after which turned out to be a big mistake, as even though the city was unlikely (but certainly still possible) to complete, my builder was in the city and was working hard to generate me plenty of bonus turns which I soon missed once he'd been retired.

The basket that I had been putting all my eggs in came in the shape of a tidy little farm which grew steadily throughout the game. It seemed safe as MrNumbers didn't have the meeples left to challenge me for it, but he did put the meeples he had rescued to good use and before long it was tied with 3 farmers each. Coupled with his 20 bonus points for trade goods (most of what remained being trapped in uncompletable cities) it seemed obvious that I needed the farm outright to win the game. It wasn't until the last 12 tiles that things really started to go wrong though:

1) 2 of my meeples had earlier been deployed as knights into useless cities that I couldn't complete through lack of useful tiles drawn. They were worth just 7 points between them at the end of the game which was especially frustrating as there was an an unclaimed 14-point farm, and other free features which would have been valuable enough to have won the game for me if I'd been able to deploy them to these. Even though I had a free meeple though, I didn't have the chance to use it as...

2) ...within my last 4 turns, 2 of the tiles I drew were volcanoes which were effectively wasted since I couldn't use these to generate any points. :( Instead, I used them to move the dragon nearer to MrNumbers farmers which would have been great if not for...

3) ...MrNumbers drew the last dragon tile (an ffrr). Obviously it was 50/50 who was going to draw this (although I could have significantly improved my own chances of drawing it if I'd left my builder in the besieged city) but coupled with the 2 volcanoes I'd drawn this was a particularly bitter pill to swallow. There was a lovely place that I could have put this as well, which would have added 1 farmer each (our phantoms) onto the farm, increasing it's value somewhat, before removing one of MrNumber's farmers with the dragon. But alas, it wasn't to be. >:(

4) To add insult to injury, there were at least 2 tiles left in amongst the final few that could have completed the city that ended up incomplete with my builder in it, but MrNumbers drew both of them. If I'd drawn either of them I could have completed the city, taking a trade token in the process, for an additional 16 points (+10 for the trade token, +6 for the city being completed). With my bonus turn I could have then claimed the 14-point farm netting myself 30 points overall, but alas this wasn't to be either. :'(

And this my friends, is my sad tale of how I managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory; a great start followed up by some bad decisions and some very bad luck :-\. It didn't help of course that MrNumbers was on top form (despite claiming otherwise at the start of the game) and was as deserving of his victory as he always is. Thanks for the game MrNumbers! :(y) A big thanks also to Decar for his Java-coding skillz and for enabling us to finish the competition without any bugs or duplicate tiles, and to TheSteveAllen for all the practice games we played with the various combinations of expansions along the way.
Heroically snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since 2018

Offline TheSteveAllen

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #107 on: May 10, 2018, 04:00:44 AM »
and to TheSteveAllen for all the practice games we played with the various combinations of expansions along the way.

You are more than welcome. I really enjoyed our various tussles along the way.

Offline Decar

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #108 on: May 10, 2018, 05:55:45 AM »
A big thanks also to Decar for his Java-coding skillz and for enabling us to finish the competition without any bugs or duplicate tiles, and to TheSteveAllen for all the practice games we played with the various combinations of expansions along the way.

Great to hear the rest of the game took place without anomaly!
Thanks to Steve for his patience allowing me to mess about with all his Java installations - I hope you're back to normal now!

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #109 on: May 10, 2018, 10:38:38 AM »

Here is promised review of the final game.

I don’t remember much from first half of the game, except some separate facts: big city started to grow and it included many trade goods, so completion of it could guarantee trade goods advantage. We put much power into that city, including glomming on, flying into and removing knights with princess, but in the end I left with two trapped meeples and builder. Dan quickly secured this trap by adding a tile above, so I couldn’t even use a bridge (because some crcr tiles were still in the bag). During first half minor castle bug showed up: according to the rules castle can’t be scored in the turn it was created. That’s not how it is implemented in JCZ. We decided to track affected score difference manually, that is why my final score differs from screenshot by 2 points.
As you know, when serious bazaar bug appeared, the game was interrupted, until Decar was able to track down the bug and create unique JCZ edition, and TheSteveAllen properly tested it. Big THANK YOU, guys, for your efforts! The game continues, after I sorted out some personal problems and we at last could find time to play. This second part I started very badly, with my first (!) move I freed up two of Dan’s trapped monks, so on that moment Dan has 5+1 meeples in hand, but I had only 1+1. I really thought the game was over for me after that “move of shame”, but I decided to fight till the end. As Dan already told, I managed to free one meeple by drawing cfrf tile and one by placing cloister near huge besieged city. On a side note: I didn’t understand why Dan kept adding tiles with his builder to that highly unlikely completable city. Just to spend tiles? These tiles gave 0 points to him. Instead he could use his builder to both generate points and leave me less tiles, if builder would be in normal city. It looks like Dan soon enough admitted it by himself, so he also escaped from that city through cloister I placed earlier.
After that I had some lucky draws, including completion of 10-point city with clothes, which turned out to be the only one clothes piece earned in the game (additional +10 points). Game end is perfectly described by Dan. I can only add, that Dan perfectly spotted my attempt to add phantom to the farm (to win it), so he spent his ccff tile not to add to his builder, but to prevent such possibility (and just with my next tile I could achieve that!).
So, Dan really deserved victory, I was almost ready to such outcome, so after game ended I barely believed the result! Thanks for such thrilling game, buddy! And thanks once again to Decar and TheSteveAllen!
"I never lose. Either I win or I learn." (Nelson Mandela)

Offline Jéré

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #110 on: May 11, 2018, 12:45:13 AM »
Congrats MrNumbers for winning the most anticlimax World Cup! (don't get me wrong, still an impressive achievement!). Commiserations Dan!

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Offline MrNumbers

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #111 on: May 11, 2018, 01:24:05 AM »
Thanks to everyone for congratulations! :D
This was the longest online competition ever organized, with many reasons behind, but still it is over and we have results. I owe you some final information, which wasn't published officially, including final standings of all participants. Publishing it now.

Thanks to everyone who took part and helped in progress! I can once again specially mention Decar and TheSteveAllen for their much appreciated help ;)

I have one idea in mind, which could change the format of online competitions in the future, but we'll discuss it separately :)

See you on online battlefield! ;D

Offline danisthirty

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #112 on: May 11, 2018, 02:23:33 AM »
So, Dan really deserved victory, I was almost ready to such outcome, so after game ended I barely believed the result!

I will publish a video of the complete game (both halves) once I have had a chance to put it together and make it look nice. I assume you don't have any objections to this MrNumbers?

I have watched the very end of our game a couple of times and am of the opinion that with 6 tiles left in the bag, 3 of them could have been game-winners for me (either of the ccffs or the ffrr with dragon). Still, if one of us was going to win and it wasn’t me, I’m glad it could be you. ;)

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #113 on: May 11, 2018, 03:07:00 AM »
I will publish a video of the complete game (both halves) once I have had a chance to put it together and make it look nice. I assume you don't have any objections to this MrNumbers?

I have watched the very end of our game a couple of times and am of the opinion that with 6 tiles left in the bag, 3 of them could have been game-winners for me (either of the ccffs or the ffrr with dragon). Still, if one of us was going to win and it wasn’t me, I’m glad it could be you. ;)
You are welcome to do so, Dan!

BTW, as I mentioned in my report, you had one ccff tile, but you put it in my phantom farm (with good reason, as it turned out later!). But, I probably should watch video first, maybe I've got something wrong :)

Offline thodekey

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #114 on: May 11, 2018, 03:48:36 AM »
Congratulations to:
- MrNumbers for ending up first in the WC!
- all of us for being part of the longest WC ever!
- Dan for playing yet another final and screwing things up  >:D  no seriously, it seems like lady luck wasn't on your side.
- MrNumbers again for setting up this competition in the first place!

And as someone has to ask first, here it goes...WHAT'S NEXT?  ;)
Although a revised version of JCZ might be a good thing...

Offline TheSteveAllen

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #115 on: May 11, 2018, 03:54:17 AM »

And as someone has to ask first, here it goes...WHAT'S NEXT?  ;)
Although a revised version of JCZ might be a good thing...

MrNumbers and I were looking at the possibility of having divisional leagues. I have a feeling that this might be happening soon.  :)

Offline danisthirty

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #116 on: May 11, 2018, 03:59:19 AM »
I will publish a video of the complete game (both halves) once I have had a chance to put it together and make it look nice. I assume you don't have any objections to this MrNumbers?

I have watched the very end of our game a couple of times and am of the opinion that with 6 tiles left in the bag, 3 of them could have been game-winners for me (either of the ccffs or the ffrr with dragon). Still, if one of us was going to win and it wasn’t me, I’m glad it could be you. ;)
You are welcome to do so, Dan!

BTW, as I mentioned in my report, you had one ccff tile, but you put it in my phantom farm (with good reason, as it turned out later!). But, I probably should watch video first, maybe I've got something wrong :)

Great, I'll post it as soon as it's sufficiently polished!

It's rarely a good idea to dwell on the ifs, buts and maybes, especially in a game like Carcassonne where the outcome is determined equally by the tiles you didn't draw as well as the tiles you did, but whilst I'm aware of the downfalls and that a different outcome is never guaranteed, here is my analysis of the last 10 tiles...

10 tiles left in the bag, MrNumbers to draw first:

1st out: ccff with wheat - could have got me a bonus turn, drawn by MrNumbers
2nd out: fffr with volcano - cant generate any points, but useful for putting dragon near MrNumbers' farmers
3rd out: cfcf with pennant - could have got me a bonus turn, drawn by MrNumbers
4th out: ffff with volcano - useless
5th out: cfff - would have completed my city for +19 points (including fairy) + bonus turn - drawn by MrNumbers
6th out: ccff - could have used to generate bonus turn and extend city but was too risky because of farm so chose to use it to block farm attempt
7th out: ffrr with dragon - could have used this to win farm based on where Dragon was at the time, drawn by MrNumbers
8th out: ccrr - generated 4 points for myself
9th out: cfff with volcano - would have completed my city for +19 points (including fairy) + bonus turn - drawn by MrNumbers
10th out: ccrf with barrel - used to drop pig onto farm

If the tiles had come out in the same order and I'd used my ccff to expand my city and take a bonus turn, I would have drawn the last ccrr to win the farm on my bonus turn AND completed my city with builder on my next turn. But nothing is guaranteed, and you can't assume the same opportunities would be available even by altering just 1 or 2 tiles.

Offline danisthirty

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #117 on: May 16, 2018, 02:46:16 PM »
Video is now available via Carcassonne Central youtube channel:



Enjoy! 8) :(y)

Offline Leven

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #118 on: May 21, 2018, 01:32:23 PM »
What a thrilling final game, thank you Dan for sharing the video. Regardless of the outcome of the game, big congrats to both of you.

If I'm not mistaken then with this world cup MrNumbers claimed his 3rd CarcC tournament victory (his previous titles: 2015 T&B League, 2016 P&D League), thereby equalizing the record of danisthirty. While Dan was undoubtedly the most successful player in 2017 by winning two leagues and being (a bit unlucky) runner-up at the world cup. :(y)

And of course I'd like to thank MrNumbers for organizing the tournament. I can't wait for the next one.

Offline Halfling

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Re: 2017 World Cup - Knock-Out Stage
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2018, 07:56:12 AM »
Maybe a handicap system based upon ELO rating could be conceived to give the rest of the community a chance..
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