Author Topic: What do you think of Miniature Games?  (Read 2971 times)

Offline Vinçon

  • Vassal
  • *****
  • Posts: 74
  • Merit: 5
  • Why you have to be mad?
    • View Profile
What do you think of Miniature Games?
« on: December 28, 2017, 03:37:19 AM »
Minis is almost an instant not back, each time a get a game with minis I'm more and more into standees.

May I ask why? I haven't got any game with minis yet, but there are some with really great looking ones.

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3725.0
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:31:48 AM by Decar »

Offline Chooselife

  • Viscount
  • ****
  • Posts: 629
  • Merit: 25
  • Just Ask
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 04:27:30 AM »
Minis is almost an instant not back, each time a get a game with minis I'm more and more into standees.

May I ask why? I haven't got any game with minis yet, but there are some with really great looking ones.
They do look good on the campaign pages, facebook promo photos, etc but unless you are a painter you will end up with a table full of dull grey plastic figures and most often than not it will drive the game price up.
Standees while not that glamorous usually pack the games artwork to greater extent and are ready to put on the table as soon as you receive the game.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he today that sheds his blood with me, Shall be my brother;

Offline Decar

  • Global Moderator
  • Chatelain Commandeur
  • *
  • Posts: 5475
  • Merit: 238
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 07:30:59 AM »
Miniature games are really hit and miss.  First you have to generally like the style of the miniatures and secondly they have to be well made.

I would recommend you have a look at CMON's : Rivet Wars & Arcadia Quest , these are Chibi miniatures which are highly detailed.  A lot of CMON's games have well produced miniatures.  All the miniatures are pre-assembled  :(y)

I got Shadespire for Christmas.  This is produced by Games Workshop, the masters of miniatures.  The game is a hex-based area-control, deck building game, but the box set contains 8 miniatures you clip from a spur and push-fit together, no glue.  They are really high quality  :(y)  I'll be writing a review of the game in a couple of weeks.  It's been good fun to play thus-far.  From a thematic perspective though, it may not be everyone's tea & crumpets.  The same with their other games.

My wife enjoys looking at the miniatures, she likes putting them together and she's not bad at painting them, but she doesn't think so.  It's a rewarding process for those who enjoy the art/craft.  If you're mechanically driven, you'd be happy with a token or a standee like CL said.

I'll be splitting this topic into:  "What do you think of miniature games" as it's no longer KS specific, a great topic non-the-less  :(y)

Offline Chooselife

  • Viscount
  • ****
  • Posts: 629
  • Merit: 25
  • Just Ask
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 09:27:00 AM »
Can a game be defined by its components?
Well certainly to some extent since Carcassonne is a tile (laying game) and Medici the Card Game is indeed a card game.

But would we be correct in calling Carcassonne a "meeple game" and put it on the same sack as Colt Express or Raiders of the North Sea each with one player or position markers made from wood or any other worker placement game for that matter?

Wouldn't you be able to play Rivet Wars & Arcadia Quest with some custom meeples or even standard meeples with different colors or just different markings/stickers/imprints on their backs?

It is not that I don't like "miniature games" I just don't like minis as a component.
I would love to have my The 7th Continent, Santorini, Grimm Forest or Flash Point minis painted but since I'm not a painter I just end up with a ton of plastic gray minis dulling most of the time otherwise spectacular art on the table.

Even if I had any time of talent for arts, which I don't, not only do minis make the games more expensive as painted them requires time and (more) money, everything on top of an hobby where finding time to play or money for a new game/expansion is already difficult.

Standees while being dreaded cardboard are usually done as an extension of the artist art work perfectly embedded on the game theme and safe from the painter talent or color preferences, but most important come ready to play just needing to be un-punched and put on the bases.

Using The 7th Continent as an example it comes with detailed minis which I will never paint or find someone who paint them for a reasonable cost/quality but it also comes with perfectly drawn and detailed standees which just come to life on top of the cards.
Either way the game theme/mechanics/appeal is so rich that I would gladly play it using a meeple, a button or a monopoly top hat.


Offline jungleboy

  • Viscount Chevalier
  • ****
  • Posts: 3037
  • Merit: 89
  • Nine points!
    • View Profile
    • English in 10 Minutes
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2017, 09:35:05 AM »
I don't care for minis or standees. I prefer meeples or other wooden pieces.

Offline danisthirty

  • (well, OK, 40...)
  • Administrator
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • Posts: 6584
  • Merit: 252
  • "First to 4 points wins?"
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 09:38:18 AM »
I don't have a problem with miniatures as long as I like the game. Examples: Hero Quest and Zombicide. But I do see comments (not here) from people talking about how great a game is going to be based on the number of miniatures it includes and this sets off alarm bells for me.

The main value that I see in miniatures is whether they help to immerse you in the gameplay. If they're bundled in to attract people who seek miniatures above gameplay then I'm not interested. Would Snakes and Ladders or Noughts and Crosses be good games if they came with a selection of miniatures? No. And yet in some cases, people do seem to look past bad gameplay/ broken mechanics if miniatures are included, as if they compensate for it!

So in summary, nothing wrong with miniatures. But you need to be able to see past all the miniature hype in order to assess if something is actually worth owning when miniatures are included. Personally I'm much more comfortable with wooden meeples or other basic tokens as this suggests that the game can stand up for itself without miniatures.

Offline Decar

  • Global Moderator
  • Chatelain Commandeur
  • *
  • Posts: 5475
  • Merit: 238
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 09:46:18 AM »
Interestingly, I did prototype a faction of Rivet Wars using tokens, and the experience was far less rewarding.  It was difficult to judge what units were (at the time there was no artwork either).  It was very difficult to judge certain characteristics relying on symbology.

For full fledge wargames, the physical dimensions of a unit are very important.  This is extended into miniature wargames as a means of telling everyone what weapons and equipment units have.  Also how units are covered are important, you can shoot them if their leg is poking out for example.

I don't buy that a standee would be able to replace such factors.  Can you imagine: 'You can't shoot me because I'm 2 dimensional and not visible in your plane of view"  ;D

Changing angle: Carcassonne could be replaced with 1mm cardboard tiles and drawn with biro and the mechanics of the game wouldn't change. Such a game would still be a masterpiece in design.  However, a lot of people were annoyed when the artwork of changed many years back now.  I think artwork is important to many gamers.

I consider a miniature as part of the artwork, a sculpture even unpainted can be inspiring to see.  Imagine if Michelangelo replaced David with a standee.  Michelangelo forgot to paint him too painted, yet it works.  I don't see shame in having unpainted miniatures, their colour is purely the medium of their design.

I do agree with CL that a lot of traditional boardgames could suffice with standees, though I think they would wear down a lot faster than miniatures too. On a similar note to the standee are those terrible plastic-clips that hold up cardboard tokens and damage the card when you slide them in.  Now, I've ruined a good piece of artwork for the sake of making it stand up 90 degrees and I can only see it from certain angles.  A miniature would have been much nicer to see!

Offline Decar

  • Global Moderator
  • Chatelain Commandeur
  • *
  • Posts: 5475
  • Merit: 238
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 10:07:10 AM »
I thought I would share a few photographs to describe the types of standee that are included in games.

These first two are usually the most basic, and in my opinion the better to see:




These are the ones I described before, they're terrible:


They damage the art, and the bases usually come in unfashionable colours that detract from the theme

Having said that though these are essentially the same, but well executed:



Also:  I like these for my next Print and Play:


Offline Decar

  • Global Moderator
  • Chatelain Commandeur
  • *
  • Posts: 5475
  • Merit: 238
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 10:57:08 AM »
Equally Interestingly,

BGG Defines a Miniature as:

Quote
Miniatures games are games in which miniatures are used to stage the game scenes. In such games, miniatures are the key components, and the playing represents the miniature's surroundings.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1047/miniatures

And they use a silhouetto of a meeple to represent the miniature   ???

Offline dirk2112

  • Viscount
  • ****
  • Posts: 848
  • Merit: 43
  • Filled with caffeine and hyperbole
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 11:21:45 AM »
I don't like unpainted miniatures.  I will never have the desire or time to paint them, so why bother?  Already painted miniatures look cool, but they don't make a good game great.  They more or less give my son something to toy with while he waits for his turn. 

I also prefer wood components to plastic. 

Offline franks

  • Marquis
  • ***
  • Posts: 500
  • Merit: 24
  • I love Carcassonne
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 09:27:02 PM »
I'm instantly drawn by miniatures and games where they are featured. However the added expense can be a make it or break it decision!

I've been collecting and painting minis for years so have a strong bias. I probably started with D&D miniatures and still have a load of them and many others.

I like to bling out games and what better way (for me) than minis. I find they help build the theme. I'm not a huge fan of standees but they will do in a pinch. Quite often I will break out my miscellaneous mini's and replace the standees anyway.

I just happened to paint these little minis today from Flamme Rouge.

Franks

Wanna play Carc? Can we add just one more expansion?

Offline Chooselife

  • Viscount
  • ****
  • Posts: 629
  • Merit: 25
  • Just Ask
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 01:17:10 AM »
I didn't buy Flamme Rouge (yet) but I would love to have the cyclists painted.
If only you where closer franks I'm sure we could agree on a price for mini painting service  :)) O0

Offline Decar

  • Global Moderator
  • Chatelain Commandeur
  • *
  • Posts: 5475
  • Merit: 238
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 01:24:00 AM »
Great to see another miniature lover on the forum  :(y)

Those cyclists look really good too.  Looks like only 3 colours used too to make them pop out.  Which paints did you use franks?

Offline Just a Bill

  • Marquis
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
  • Merit: 47
  • I'm still in beta.
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 06:18:05 AM »
I like miniatures when well executed (and pre-painted, usually), and am pretty much always turned off by standees, even if the artwork is good. Standees feel cheap to me, like I'm playing a Milton Bradley children's game.

For me, a really good example is Heroscape. The miniatures were pre-painted, the sculpts and painting were generally excellent with pretty good washes, and the variety was amazing. There were a few duds here and there, but the original Master Set came with a ton of interlocking, stacking tiles and 30 different miniatures (30 sculpts, no duplicates) for a mere $40.

And yes, I appreciate the irony that Heroscape was presented as a Milton Bradley children's game. :) The reality is that it was a well-designed, expandable game system that was very tactical and very fun to play.







My stuff: The Caverns of Carcassonne | Wheel of Fortune versions | True North (wind roses) | Icon facelifts | Converting CII to CI | Signposts & the Château | The Vault | Riverboats & the Whirlpool | trade list

Offline franks

  • Marquis
  • ***
  • Posts: 500
  • Merit: 24
  • I love Carcassonne
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Miniature Games?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2017, 09:18:43 AM »
Chooselife, these eyes are getting older by the minute, not sure I'm ready for a new career  :o  ;D

Decar, I've got a good standard collection of Gamesworkshop paints. They are durable with a good palette. I have some Reaper paints but just when I'm after a really specific colour, though they have some lovely metallics  :-*

With these I wanted a project that wouldn't take long, so I mostly kept the original plastic player colour. I mostly wanted the difference between the team riders to stand out, (Rouleur & Sprinter). I also took the idea from the BGG forums to colour code the bases with the card colour cards of the rider.

Just a Bill, I LOVE Heroscope and especially the minis, though I think the days of pre-paints at this level and certainly cost (when they were available) are long gone  :(

Similarily D&D use to have very good pre-paints but now the quality level is not as good and are more expensive.


The peak of D&D minis


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via furl Share via linkedin Share via myspace Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via technorati Share via twitter

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
xx
GQ11 mini expansion on Miniature Market

Started by CKorfmann

0 Replies
707 Views
Last post April 01, 2018, 12:00:44 PM
by CKorfmann
question
What games did you enjoy at UK games expo (or other games convention)?

Started by asparagus

4 Replies
2622 Views
Last post June 09, 2016, 02:27:25 AM
by asparagus
xx
Top ten games!

Started by Tacita

32 Replies
12178 Views
Last post October 24, 2016, 10:29:06 PM
by Bixby
xx
all of the games?

Started by boardgamer55

7 Replies
2660 Views
Last post August 26, 2016, 11:34:29 PM
by wolnic
clip
First games with the Halflings

Started by jungleboy

10 Replies
5157 Views
Last post November 21, 2014, 11:19:50 AM
by jungleboy