Poll

How to you primarily use The Cathedrals?

To maximize the value of my Thieves by placing them on Roads adjacent to Cathedrals.
6 (42.9%)
As a home for my Archbishop so I can try to gain beaucoup points.
7 (50%)
I mostly treat them as visually appealing tiles and do not use the rules.
0 (0%)
I use them in some other creatively strategic manner (describe below).
0 (0%)
I don't ever play with or don't own The Cathedrals (in Germany).
1 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Author Topic: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #54  (Read 2307 times)

Offline whaleyland

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The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #54
« on: April 01, 2017, 04:12:43 PM »
ELEMENT OF THE WEEK: THE CATHEDRALS (in Germany)

After a long hiatus, Elements of the Week are back to help users catch up on the newest elements in our favorite game. Each week, a specific element from an expansion or spin-off is chosen for deeper discussion. This is an opportunity for you, Carcassonne's biggest English-language fans, to discuss strategies and problems you have encountered through the years regarding specific expansion elements. All forms of critique – from the most joyous to the most scathing – are encouraged.

This week's element is THE CATHEDRALS (in Germany). Much like the German Castles element, this one is a bit of a cheat since it really includes two interconnected elements: Archbishops and road bonuses. Each Cathedral has a few Roads coming out of it and those Roads score +1 point per segment, a là the Inns in Inns & Cathedrals. But unlike that expansion, these ones keep the bonus at the end of the game for unfinished Roads, so you will always score 2 points for Roads connected to a Cathedral, and you do not have to be the player that placed the Cathedral to gain this benefit...so double win, right?

The other side of the Cathedral is that a Follower can be placed directly on a Cathedral and become an Archbishop. Now this is where the element really shines. The Archbishop scores 1 point per Road connected to the Cathedrals – gotta bring in the devoted Roman Catholics somehow (unless there is a little Catharism going on). This bonus works even at the end of the game, so the only risk is that the Roads will be short and the Archbishop's episcopate stilted. But still, lots of Roads is probably a safer bet than a single Road worth double-points. Or not. This is definitely one feature from Hunters & Gatherers that has been long needed in Carcassonne.

Discuss your relationship with The Cathedrals (in Germany), as well as your strategies for taking advantage of this element.

Next Week's Topic: The Falcons (from The Castle)     :neutral-meeple: :white-meeple:

Disclaimer: I could not find the official rules for the expansion anywhere, so please let me know if there are any errors and I will quickly correct it. Cheers!

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3235.0
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 04:52:13 PM by whaleyland »

Offline Jéré

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2017, 11:26:50 PM »
One important aspect of this expansion is this departure from the general and well-known rule which states that the score is counted "per tile". 

If a road loops, connecting 2 road ends on the same cathedral tile, both ends are counted separately for scoring. In other words, the same cathedral tile is counted twice in this case. Also, when scoring the cathedral's bishop, road ends are always counted separately.

Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2017, 11:36:09 PM »
One important aspect of this expansion is this departure from the general and well-known rule which states that the score is counted "per tile". 

If a road loops, connecting 2 road ends on the same cathedral tile, both ends are counted separately for scoring. In other words, the same cathedral tile is counted twice in this case. Also, when scoring the cathedral's bishop, road ends are always counted separately.
So if a Bishop is on a Cathedral with four Roads, that Cathedral will score an automatic four points, one for each Road?

Offline Decar

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2017, 01:55:40 AM »
gotta bring in the devoted Roman Catholics somehow (unless there is a little Catharism going on).

Actually, Ulm Minster and St Michael's Church are both a Lutheran churches, doubt you'll find that many devote Catholics attending!

Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2017, 02:53:12 AM »
Yea
gotta bring in the devoted Roman Catholics somehow (unless there is a little Catharism going on).

Actually, Ulm Minster and St Michael's Church are both a Lutheran churches, doubt you'll find that many devote Catholics attending!
Yes, but the game is Middle Ages-themed, so all of the cathedrals would be Catholic (or rather just Roman). Not sure if either of those two cathedrals pre-date 1517, but if they do, then they were once Catholic.

Offline Willem

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2017, 03:07:05 AM »
Thse have become a much used element in our games. They make roads more interesting for scoring, and combined with the ferries, make for a good strategy element!
We always play with the Phantom, so it makes the decision to claim a road or the cathedral a bit easier, as you can do both in one go!
And they look good to :D
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Offline Decar

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2017, 03:44:34 AM »
Yes, but the game is Middle Ages-themed, so all of the cathedrals would be Catholic (or rather just Roman). Not sure if either of those two cathedrals pre-date 1517, but if they do, then they were once Catholic.

And either way, I'm not aware of many German Cathedrals in the South of France, no matter the period. Haha! Ulm Minster was part of the Reformation; however St Michaels was built was a Protestant Church (1647).

Offline Jéré

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2017, 10:08:27 AM »
One important aspect of this expansion is this departure from the general and well-known rule which states that the score is counted "per tile". 

If a road loops, connecting 2 road ends on the same cathedral tile, both ends are counted separately for scoring. In other words, the same cathedral tile is counted twice in this case. Also, when scoring the cathedral's bishop, road ends are always counted separately.
So if a Bishop is on a Cathedral with four Roads, that Cathedral will score an automatic four points, one for each Road?

Well, minimum 5 points because it needs to be connected to another road segment.

Keep in mind that it might take a while to complete all roads so your meeple can be stuck there for some time and is quite exposed to trapping.

Online Ratz65

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2017, 10:45:51 AM »
Hello whaleyland,
The official rules you can find here: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=236&t=3180

Offline CKorfmann

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2017, 04:05:55 PM »
FYI, according the list, this should be Item #54.
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Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2017, 04:45:11 PM »
FYI, according the list, this should be Item #54.
Fixed. I had guessed the number and forgot to verify it. Oops!  :@

Okay, gonna start my rules griping. Why the sudden (and confusing) change in the rules regarding scoring a tile twice? I know that it makes the prospect of the Cathedral even better, but one or two points really is not that much more of an incentive, especially since the Cathedral basically acts as an Inn without the penalty. I am definitely house-ruling in my games that the Cathedral only every counts once for Roads and once for Archbishops. The inconsistencies in this game are mind-boggling and have become quite pronounced.

Good observation, though, Jéré, that the Cathedrals can trap Archbishops. Granted they are guaranteed some points, but it is definitely easy to Road-trap meeples there.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 04:51:37 PM by whaleyland »

Offline stalcupojoy

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #56
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2017, 08:32:19 PM »
One important aspect of this expansion is this departure from the general and well-known rule which states that the score is counted "per tile". 

If a road loops, connecting 2 road ends on the same cathedral tile, both ends are counted separately for scoring. In other words, the same cathedral tile is counted twice in this case. Also, when scoring the cathedral's bishop, road ends are always counted separately.
So if a Bishop is on a Cathedral with four Roads, that Cathedral will score an automatic four points, one for each Road?

Well, minimum 5 points because it needs to be connected to another road segment.

True. But if it's one of the FRRR German Cathedrals and you place it connected to another field, you could get away with 3 points, right?

My wife and I finally played this for the first couple times a few days ago. We both enjoyed it.

Offline Jéré

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Re: The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #54
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2017, 03:09:25 AM »
One important aspect of this expansion is this departure from the general and well-known rule which states that the score is counted "per tile". 

If a road loops, connecting 2 road ends on the same cathedral tile, both ends are counted separately for scoring. In other words, the same cathedral tile is counted twice in this case. Also, when scoring the cathedral's bishop, road ends are always counted separately.
So if a Bishop is on a Cathedral with four Roads, that Cathedral will score an automatic four points, one for each Road?

Well, minimum 5 points because it needs to be connected to another road segment.

True. But if it's one of the FRRR German Cathedrals and you place it connected to another field, you could get away with 3 points, right?

My wife and I finally played this for the first couple times a few days ago. We both enjoyed it.

Yes yes yes, my comment was specific about the 4-way crossroad cathedral.


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