Author Topic: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question  (Read 10821 times)

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2013, 09:41:29 AM »
Here are my thoughts in English (my translation with help from Bing-translator):

Quote
Why I find no answer here is as follows:

The gold piece concerns a whole tile.
Rule gold mines:
"This a piece of gold is never assigned to a particular building,
but always applies to all buildings on a tile."

However, the castle is in the middle of 2 tiles. (see below *)

A road and a city comprised of several segments and
the cloister consists of the cloister tile and the 8 adjacent tiles.

The same as at the cloister applies to the castle?

Rules castle - definition of the environment:
The environment tiles are the 2 tiles, on which rests the castle, as well as the 2 tiles right and the 2 tiles left them--so a total of 6 tiles.

* So, the castle is located on 2 tiles, not on a particular tile.

Can the castle ever get a piece of gold?

Offline Carcking

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2013, 03:19:52 PM »
* So, the castle is located on 2 tiles, not on a particular tile.

Can the castle ever get a piece of gold?

I would say the castle earns gold like the cloister. If there are any gold on tiles in its vicinity they are eligible.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 03:35:55 PM by Carcking »
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline harvster

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2013, 06:55:59 AM »
Kettlefish - ALL your examples are excellent!  And also thanks for the reference to the Carcassonne-Forum.  I used Google to help me understand what you wrote!  :-)

I take a different view to yourself, Carcking and Fritz_Spinne.  :-)

Rules castle - definition of the environment:
The environment tiles are the 2 tiles, on which rests the castle, as well as the 2 tiles right and the 2 tiles left them--so a total of 6 tiles.

I read this as only how to score points for the castle.  And the castle can only exist because it covers "a town - which consists of only two semi-circular city segments" (CAR p.103).  Also, because of the Castle rules the town is considered an incomplete feature until a feature within its vicinity is completed.

However gold bars are awarded according to a different set of rules, those for the Goldmine: "When a feature is finished and there are one or more pieces of gold on the tiles of that structure, these gold pieces are awarded." (CAR p.136).  Gold bars are only awarded according to the tile's features and not according to anything else placed over them.  And as the Red player has the majority he can claim the gold bar on the tile that the town lies on.

HOWEVER there is a sticking point because the Castle is only considered complete when a feature in its vicinity is completed.  If the Green player was the one to complete the cloister then we need to consider the Goldmine rules when more than one feature is completed at the same time.

"When more than one player has the majority in a finished structure when gold is to be claimed, or when several structures with a claim to gold are completed at the same time, the gold pieces are distributed among those claiming players. Distribution proceeds clockwise, starting with the active player, until all of the corresponding gold pieces have been awarded." (CAR p.137)  So the Green player goes first and decides to claim the gold on Red's town tile, and Red can't claim anything because that was the only gold he could claim.  If Red had completed the cloister he would be the active player and able to claim the gold on his tile but nothing further,

When applying my thoughts to the situation under Q2 where Blue completes their city, both the castle and city are now complete for the purposes of scoring, but Blue can only claim the gold that lie on the tiles that have his features.  And Red can only claim the gold on his.  Neither of their features overlap for the purposes of determining who gets what gold.  And the same holds true if Red was to complete Blue's city.

So to answer kettlefish's question: no, the castle can't get the gold but the underlying town feature certainly can.  :-)

Does all this seem ok?  What do people think?

Of course, HiG and Klaus-J├╝rgen Wrede have the final say!  :-)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 07:04:21 AM by harvster, Reason: To spell Carcking\'s name correctly! »

Offline harvster

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2013, 06:59:19 AM »
It's a question of how the castle mechanic works. Does the castle grant a share of the ownership of the triggering feature to the owner of the castle? Or do the two remain completely independent?
The scoring for the castle has nothing to do with the "ownership" of that feature. The castle gets points only for "how many points is that finished feature worth?". The castle score also for a finished feature that was not occupied by any follower.
(see the picture "Burg und Goldmine2.jpg")

This fits in with what I was just trying to say!

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2013, 07:21:11 AM »
I have got an answer from Christof Tisch (graphic artist for HiG - he designs the rules for Carcassonne)

For a finished castle is it possilbe to get the gold pieces from the 6 tiles arround the castle.


Here is the link to the answer from Christof Tisch at the Carcassonne-Forum

The answer from Christof (translation by Bing translator - I don't know if the translation makes sense):
Quote
In my opinion also a castle can take over and all gold pieces, which are located in the Castle area gold pieces. 6 tiles are the castle environment: the two on which the castle was built both right and left, both of which. From there, the owner of the castle can take pieces of gold.

There are several players that have eligible for gold, gold is distributed round robin one after the other, as it usually is.
I hope that answers your question (s).

I have looked at times just watching the thread. Option 1 is in my opinion the wisest and one that corresponds to the game.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 10:25:42 AM by kettlefish, Reason: changed the link to CarcF »

Offline harvster

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2013, 08:52:01 AM »
Well done on following up with HiG!  :-)  And the translation seems to be straightforward.

From what he says I would understand that to mean that any gold on the six tiles in vicinity of the castle are available to be taken by the owner of the castle.  So the gold lying outside those six tiles and lying on Blue's castle are not available for Red to collect.  But any gold that is on an incomplete feature, but within Red's six tiles, are available to be taken by Red.

This is very different to the my thoughts!  :-)  I suppose Christof Tisch would think them much too narrow an interpretation of the rules.  Oh well.  It's good to get these things clarified!

By the way kettlefish, how well does my writing translate to German?

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2013, 10:25:06 AM »
Well done on following up with HiG!  :-)  And the translation seems to be straightforward.

From what he says I would understand that to mean that any gold on the six tiles in vicinity of the castle are available to be taken by the owner of the castle.  So the gold lying outside those six tiles and lying on Blue's castle are not available for Red to collect.  But any gold that is on an incomplete feature, but within Red's six tiles, are available to be taken by Red.
Yes this result is correct. But BLUE has a city and not a castle.
-----------------------------------


This is very different to the my thoughts!  :-)  I suppose Christof Tisch would think them much too narrow an interpretation of the rules.  Oh well.  It's good to get these things clarified!

By the way kettlefish, how well does my writing translate to German?
When I looked at all the rules from the Goldmines and also to the rules from the Castle I decided to ask HiG, because I found more than one (3 or 4) possible results. So I can't find an answer.

Now we have an official answer.

We German learn English at school. So I don't need to translate English to German. But it is easier for me to think in English and then to write a comment in English (my grammar - that is hopeless) than to translate a text from someone else from German to English.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2013, 02:19:58 PM »
obervet03,
should I post all the answers for the pictures in the same posts (modify each post)  where the pictures are?

Offline obervet

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2013, 02:42:43 PM »
obervet03,
should I post all the answers for the pictures in the same posts (modify each post)  where the pictures are?

Since there were a lot of ideas flying around there for a little while, it might make it clearer to add the correct answers to the posts with the pictures.

Offline obervet

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2013, 02:45:02 PM »
The new version of the S-CAR will include a footnote explaining the claiming of gold pieces by castle owners and a footnote clarifying the sequential claiming of gold pieces by multiple players (including the possibility of a player missing out on a piece that originally could have been his).

Offline kettlefish

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« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 05:59:09 PM by kettlefish »


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