Author Topic: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question  (Read 11927 times)

Offline Carcking

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2013, 12:57:19 PM »
Carcking,
And here comes an example perhaps for your 1st question.
(But it is a city - not a road - sorry)

Quote
1. If a player scores a castle is he eligible to collect any gold that is on the feature that triggered the castle score, even if not in the vicinity of the castle? Let's say gold exists on a relevant road on the 6th and 7th tiles away from the castle.

(the just placed tile has a red line around)

The castle scores 20 Points for the city.

Hmmm...more like this:


Is Red eligible to collect either of the gold in the lower right region outside of Blue's city? That is, since the owner of the castle is also scoring the feature (as a function of the castle) does that feature become part of the castle feature for purposes of collecting gold?

The picture from Carcking:

No - RED doesn't collect any of the gold pieces in the lower right region of the city from BLUE. RED receives only the gold piece which is on one of the 6 tiles around the castle. BLUE receives the two gold pieces in the lower right region of that city.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 05:44:05 PM by kettlefish, Reason: Result of the answer from Christof Tisch - HiG »
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2013, 01:03:27 PM »
Is Red eligible to collect either of the gold in the lower right region outside of Blue's city? That is, since the owner of the castle is also scoring the feature (as a function of the castle) does that feature become part of the castle feature for purposes of collecting gold?
I would say - no. Theese two gold pieces are not on the 6 tiles from the castle.

Offline Carcking

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2013, 01:08:04 PM »
Is Red eligible to collect either of the gold in the lower right region outside of Blue's city? That is, since the owner of the castle is also scoring the feature (as a function of the castle) does that feature become part of the castle feature for purposes of collecting gold?
I would say - no. Theese two gold pieces are not on the 6 tiles from the castle.

It's a question of how the castle mechanic works. Does the castle grant a share of the ownership of the triggering feature to the owner of the castle? Or do the two remain completely independent?

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2013, 01:34:15 PM »
It's a question of how the castle mechanic works. Does the castle grant a share of the ownership of the triggering feature to the owner of the castle? Or do the two remain completely independent?
The scoring for the castle has nothing to do with the "ownership" of that feature. The castle gets points only for "how many points is that finished feature worth?". The castle score also for a finished feature that was not occupied by any follower.
(see the picture "Burg und Goldmine2.jpg")

Offline Carcking

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2013, 01:39:21 PM »
It's a question of how the castle mechanic works. Does the castle grant a share of the ownership of the triggering feature to the owner of the castle? Or do the two remain completely independent?
The scoring for the castle has nothing to do with the "ownership" of that feature. The castle gets points only for "how many points is that finished feature worth?". The castle score also for a finished feature that was not occupied by any follower.
(see the picture "Burg und Goldmine2.jpg")

I agree with what you say. It may not be clear though and might be worthy of a mention so everyone is on board with collecting gold relative to castles.  :red-meeple:

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2013, 02:54:45 PM »
At the Carcassonne-Forum you can see all pictures.

Offline harvster

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 07:00:45 AM »
harvster - are these intended to be answers to the castle questions?  ???

Yes indeed Carcking.  It was rather late at night when I was doing it so I focussed on trying to answer your questions more than anything else.

Offline harvster

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 07:02:50 AM »
And I've yet to read all the dialogue since (wow - you guys really got stuck into this topic!) and once again it's late where I am!  :-)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 08:03:58 AM by harvster, Reason: spelling »

Offline harvster

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 08:03:16 AM »
Ah - my apologies Carcking, I misunderstood your use of the word castle thinking you meant to say city!  As I don't have the Bridges, Castles and Bazaars expansion (yet!) I was not really in a position to properly comment on your questions!

Having now read up on Castles I agree with kettlefish's assessment, which I suspect was also yours Carckling (even before you asked the question!).  With the rules for the Goldmines only concerning itself with tile features and their majority ownership, the assessment of ownership of the city through the castle has to be the way to deal with the situation.

Very neat you two!

But now I have some questions for you both (and anyone else):

Consider the situation where a piece of gold was placed on the first half of the city.  Then the Red player  :red-meeple: completes it with another half city tile (a town) and turns it into a castle.
(Note: the second gold piece was placed as a second gold on the topmost tile.)

Q1 - In the case of the previous picture (Blue  :blue-meeple: completes city), what happens with the gold on the castle?

Q2 - This time what happens if it's the cloister that's completed first (where the cloister has a Green meeple  :green-meeple:)?
(Note: the other cloister tiles do not have any gold on them and no other feature was completed by any of the cloister tiles.)

:-)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 08:07:43 AM by harvster, Reason: highlighting »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2013, 09:05:16 AM »
But now I have some questions for you both (and anyone else):

Consider the situation where a piece of gold was placed on the first half of the city.  Then the Red player  :red-meeple: completes it with another half city tile (a town) and turns it into a castle.
(Note: the second gold piece was placed as a second gold on the topmost tile.)
The gold piece belongs to the whole tile not only to a feature like the half city segment.

havster, could you please tell me which of all the pictures is important for your example, then I am able to design a picture for your questions.

Q1 - In the case of the previous picture (Blue  :blue-meeple: completes city), what happens with the gold on the castle?
A gold piece can't be placed on the top of a castle, because the gold piece belongs to a tile (see above).

Offline harvster

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2013, 12:38:31 PM »
But now I have some questions for you both (and anyone else):

Consider the situation where a piece of gold was placed on the first half of the city.  Then the Red player  :red-meeple: completes it with another half city tile (a town) and turns it into a castle.
(Note: the second gold piece was placed as a second gold on the topmost tile.)

The gold piece belongs to the whole tile not only to a feature like the half city segment.

Very good point kettlefish.

havster, could you please tell me which of all the pictures is important for your example, then I am able to design a picture for your questions.

Take the picture that you did above, but remove the tile with the red boundary (being the final piece for Blue's city) and also remove the castle, the Red meeple and the top tile of the city/town.  Then place a Green meeple on the cloister with a gold bar and the second gold bar on the remaining bottom tile of the half city segment.  The cloister would be a tile with an imprint of the gold bar.

The next picture then has the tile that completes the half city segment (as before) on which the Red player is about to place a castle and his Red meeple (a third picture?, like the one on the Castles page in the CAR).

Hopefully these pictures will make it clearer where I'm coming from.

As the Red player cannot score the town due to placing the castle (as the town underneath is then deemed to be incomplete until a feature within its vicinity is completed) then for the same reason the gold on that tile cannot be collected by the Red player.

At least that's the way I see the rules being applied.

Q1 - In the case of the previous picture (Blue  :blue-meeple: completes city), what happens with the gold on the castle?
A gold piece can't be placed on the top of a castle, because the gold piece belongs to a tile (see above).

P.S.  Had trouble with the quotes finishing in the right places...???

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2013, 05:02:56 PM »
Hi harvester,
I think I have now some pictures.
(The just placed tile has the colour from the players  :green-meeple:  :red-meeple:  :blue-meeple:)

In the last picture BLUE finished his city.
BLUE scores for the city 20 points and receives two gold pieces (the two gold pieces under the city).
RED scores for the castle 20 points (the same points like the city - the first feature which is finished).

The question is:
Does RED receives gold pieces - one or two gold pieces (the gold pieces has been placed by GREEN )?
That is a good question...

The picture: "Cloister and Gold1-4":

Yes, RED receives two gold pieces. Each of the gold pieces are at one of the 6 tiles around the castle. It doesn't matter that the feature (that triggered the castle score - here the city from BLUE) is not on the same tile like the gold pieces.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 05:06:32 PM by kettlefish, Reason: Result of the answer from Christof Tisch - HiG »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2013, 03:36:38 AM »
Q2 - This time what happens if it's the cloister that's completed first (where the cloister has a Green meeple  :green-meeple:)?
(Note: the other cloister tiles do not have any gold on them and no other feature was completed by any of the cloister tiles.)

Here are the next pictures:
(the line around the just placed tile has the colour from the aktive player  :red-meeple: :green-meeple:)

The pictures: "Cloister and Gold 4a and 4b":

In this case it doesn't matter which of them is the active player  :red-meeple: or  :green-meeple:. Because both gold pieces are around the cloister from  :green-meeple: and also both gold pieces are around the 6 tiles from the castle which belongs to :red-meeple:.
Each of them get one gold piece.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 05:18:52 PM by kettlefish, Reason: Result of the answer from Christof Tisch - HiG »

Offline harvster

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2013, 08:20:40 AM »
Thanks kettlefish - that's very nice work.  You got the all pictures spot on, and for the second question I like how you created  the two possible situations depending on who is the active player!

So the questions now are:

Q0 - Is the situation of the Red meeple :red-meeple:, with the castle and gold bar, actually a correct interpretation of the rules?

Q1 -  In the case of the first group of pictures (where Blue :blue-meeple: completes city), what happens with the gold on the castle?

Q2 - In the case of the second group of pictures (where the cloister has a Green meeple :green-meeple:), what happens with the gold if:
Q2a - Red :red-meeple: completes the cloister?
Q2b - Green :green-meeple: completes the cloister?

What are you thoughts?

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Goldminers: Gold Removal Question
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2013, 08:29:58 AM »
Thanks kettlefish - that's very nice work.  You got the all pictures spot on, and for the second question I like how you created  the two possible situations depending on who is the active player!
with copy and paste. I copied the tiles from the rules pdf and then put the tiles around the cloister, like a real game play... - but I didn't place any other followers or other figures on the tiles, because I like to have an easy situation. I also didn't place more tiles around the playing field, because the other tiles are not important for this "cloister and castle" situation.

Are the examples for the finished cloister correct?

All my thought are in German at the Carcassonne-Forum.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 10:24:52 AM by kettlefish, Reason: changed the link to CarcF »


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