Author Topic: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions  (Read 6122 times)

Offline asparagus

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2016, 02:32:12 PM »
One day there will be a civil war in the Carcassonne community.  :(

Offline Decar

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2016, 02:34:27 PM »
Every time you fix a rule with a corner case (literally) you make 4 new unexpected corner cases  :(y)

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2016, 03:33:37 PM »
I think in the case of a void you would have to count it as one space per missing regular tile rather than play Schrodingers Tile and philosophise as to the whether there may be a castle or halflings there! ???  8) ::)
I have to admit that "Schrodinger's Tile" may be the funniest thing I hear today. It encompasses everything wrong with ruling the German Castle tiles as anything but two tiles.

House rule or not, I will always treat German Castles as two connected tiles in regards to movement and scoring, with the Castle itself considered off-limits to all invasive actions (Towers, Dragons, Plague, Flyer, etc.). There really is not other reasonable way to treat that tile and I feel Hans im Glück were simply wrong in stating what they stated – perhaps not understanding the long-term impact of such a ruling.

Similarly, I also will always treat a Halfing as 100% of the tile space for the purposes of everything above. As long as a single Halfling is in a space, that space is 100% filled for all intent and reasons except for completing Roads. Thus Dragons, Towers, Flyers, Plague, etc., all treat that space as one, regardless of whether there is one or two Halfling tiles in the space. Again, it's pure logic – the game cannot adequately and reasonably function without such a ruling.

I don't know why Georg Wild said what he did, but I cannot accept his ruling on these matters.

Offline asparagus

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2016, 03:36:42 PM »
I don't know whether obervet has given up in disgust or is just recovering from the shock.

However one approach might be to support two colour-coded interpretations in the CAR. An official version and a community version.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2016, 04:00:18 PM »
A German Castle is still one tile.
You need only one players turn to "draw and place" a tile (the German Castle tile).
Move Wood phase - you can choose to place the meeple on the whole tile (not only on the left or right side of the castle tile) also in the middle of the tile.
And if the dragon comes - why should the dragon don't eat the meeple in the middle of that tile?
A players turn ended with the scoring. The scoring takes place when a feature is finished. Do you only score the finished features on the left side of the German Castle tile? or do you score also finished features on the right side of the German Castle if they finished at the same time like the feature on the left side of the German Castle?
Remember - with the house rule you have "2" tiles a left one and a right one...


Offline asparagus

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2016, 04:28:52 PM »
It seems we have two main viewpoints.

cardboardism or "the 1-Tile view". A tile is a piece of cardboard whatever shape that may have (the City start tableau would be an exception). (A halfling next to a monastery counts as a whole tile because it is a tile.)

squarism or "the 2-Tile view". A tile is the geometrical shape of a normal tile. Thus a German castle is two tiles and a halfling is only half a tile. (A halfling next to a monastery counts as a whole tile because it has filled at least part of the tile-space next to the monastery.)

I can see that cardboardism opens up some interesting tactical issues, but seems to be much less intuitive and harder to remember the fiddly details. I am not clear what problems cardboardism is trying to solve.

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2016, 08:20:58 PM »
A German Castle is still one tile.
Literally, I agree, but gameplay wise, I do not.
Quote
You need only one players turn to "draw and place" a tile (the German Castle tile).
But you don't "draw" a German Castle, you place it from your supply (like a Halfling or an Abbey). Therefore, while it does take one turn to do so, it does not necessarily count the same as placing a normal-shaped tile. While it may encompass two tiles, it is not a "place tile" action but a "place object in your supply" action.
Quote
Move Wood phase - you can choose to place the meeple on the whole tile (not only on the left or right side of the castle tile) also in the middle of the tile.
True, just like you can choose to place a meeple (or not) on any unclaimed feature of any carboard item you place, such as an Abbey or a Halfling. For placement purposes, you can claim anything on the double tile because you are claiming a feature on the "just-placed tile", as the rules outline. The rules do not specify the size of the tile and I am not arguing that the tile is literally two tiles, only that it should be treated as two (such as how the City is treated as 10 or the Wheel is treated as 12).
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And if the dragon comes - why should the dragon don't eat the meeple in the middle of that tile?
Because that makes sense when the tile is otherwise treated as two tiles. Doesn't a Castle (from BC&B) essentially turn two tiles into one, allowing a player to sit between two tiles? I see this as an identical situation. The meeple is on neither tile so is immune to actions that negatively impact either.
Quote
A players turn ended with the scoring. The scoring takes place when a feature is finished. Do you only score the finished features on the left side of the German Castle tile? or do you score also finished features on the right side of the German Castle if they finished at the same time like the feature on the left side of the German Castle?
You score features that are finished regardless of where they are located on the board. When somebody finishes a feature attached to the German Castle, it is done. Period. I don't see where the tile is involved in this situation. Scoring is all about features. Do you mean does a Road score for the German Castle twice if it loops back to the German Castle? Perhaps. Honestly it hasn't come up in the two games I have played with German Castles. The ruling on German Cathedrals suggests that it should (although since the Cathedrals are undisputed single tiles, I actually do not like that rule).
Quote
Remember - with the house rule you have "2" tiles a left one and a right one...
I know. That's the point. I want them to be considered two separate tiles and I wish the artwork had drawn in a faint black line like in Wheel of Fortune to designate them as such. But the complications with expansions makes treating this as a single tile far more complicated that it should be. Understanding the implications is difficult enough, teaching it to others will result in this expansion never seeing the table if I stick by the single-tile rules.

I am not clear what problems cardboardism is trying to solve.
Me neither.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 08:22:51 PM by whaleyland »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2016, 09:09:23 PM »
Onto a German Castle tile you can place a meeple in the middle of the tile for example as a farmer.
This German Castle doesn't divide the farm in the middle of the tile.
The German Castle tile has not a line in the middle of it - that means only one tile.

The Castle from BC&B has other game mechanics. And the two tiles are still two tiles only the small city is now a castle and a meeple can be placed on top of that castle.
But the roads are still on each tile and they are worth one point.

Offline Yashin-n

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Re: Flier, Halflings and German Castles interactions
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2016, 03:52:59 AM »

What if neither are continuously connected, are they still 1 tile away then?




There are a lot of different variants but I guess that Flier flies OVER tiles with constant velocity (1 common tile per 1 point on dice). If Flier reachs the tile with German castle  he can be placed on any part of the tile. If Flier reachs  tile that consist of two halflings he can be placed on one of them by choice.



But before you start saying that null-space is size one and only one, don't forget this cloister is worth:



17 points, because each Halfling is only one tile.

I do not agree that two halflings connected as one common tile should be considered as two tiles. What is the meaning to score a cloister  in such a way?


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