Author Topic: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1  (Read 13623 times)

Offline obervet

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Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« on: May 10, 2013, 07:27:24 PM »
Don't look now, but the newest versions of the Standard and Winter CARs are in the Downloads section for your reading enjoyment.

Standard v6.3: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=198
Winter v1.1: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=199

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=262.0
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 06:57:58 AM by Scott »

Offline CARC_Zoner

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2013, 05:19:56 AM »
Congratulations and thanks for all of the hard work that goes into this essential document!

CARC_Zoner
I'm having meeple management issues...

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2013, 09:28:08 AM »
obervet03,

thanks for the new CAR.  :D

I like the new pictures in the rules - we have now a good grass green.

I am interested to "hear" what the people say about the "table".

Offline harvster

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2013, 10:23:27 AM »
Awesome!

Need some assistance in knowing how to print it.  Don't have a printer myself so must go to local library.  Not planning on printing the whole document, just sections where I don't have the rules in English.

Assistance appreciated!  :-)

Offline Carcking

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2013, 01:42:37 PM »
Don't look now, but the newest versions of the Standard and Winter CARs are in the Downloads section for your reading enjoyment.

Obervet03 - just fantastic!! Thank you for all you've put into this. The gratitude I feel is beyond words!
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2013, 03:09:13 AM »
The poor obervet03 - I gave him so much work because of  all the new clarifications from HiG.
for example:
- dictionary
- the "table"
- the Robbers and the Messages
- the clear definition of "feature" (included in the dictionary)

The definition of "feature" has some new FAQ (especially for the phantom and the wagon)

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 01:17:43 AM »
Big thanks for the done work! Especially thank you for the dates near new entries and clarifications: now it's easier to spot new ones for translating in my local CAR version.
"I never lose. Either I win or I learn." (Nelson Mandela)

Offline JT Atomico

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 11:34:30 AM »
There is a footnote marked as unresolved under the section on Abbey & Mayor:

Quote
230 There is not an official clarification about the ability of the wagon to move directly from one
city to the other on the tile shown above, where the miniature roads (driveways?) cannot be occupied
by a follower.

Isn't this answered (implictly) by the previous footnote?

Quote
229 Question: What is the definition of [connected/adjacent/neighboring] for the Wagon? If two
city walls are touching (maybe even only at a point), can I drive my Wagon from one to another?
Answer: “Connected” means roads which lead to crossings and roads which head directly “into” a
city or a cloister. Two cities never connect to each other (in the current land tiles). City walls that
touch at a point (such as at the corner of tiles) are not considered connected, so the wagon cannot
travel from one to the other. So the wagon has to use the roads to move—it’s a wagon, after all. [Also
note – a road that touches a city at a point but not at a gate in the wall is not connected to the city.
Also, a road running through a city via a tunnel is not connected to the city. – Chris O.] (confirmed
5/2013)

If none of the current land tiles contain cities that the wagon can drive between, doesn't it stands to reason that these miniature roads do not connect the cities for the purposes of the wagon?

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 12:06:18 PM »
There is a footnote marked as unresolved under the section on Abbey & Mayor:

Quote
230 There is not an official clarification about the ability of the wagon to move directly from one
city to the other on the tile shown above, where the miniature roads (driveways?) cannot be occupied
by a follower.

Isn't this answered (implictly) by the previous footnote?

Quote
229 Question: What is the definition of [connected/adjacent/neighboring] for the Wagon? If two
city walls are touching (maybe even only at a point), can I drive my Wagon from one to another?
Answer: “Connected” means roads which lead to crossings and roads which head directly “into” a
city or a cloister. Two cities never connect to each other (in the current land tiles). City walls that
touch at a point (such as at the corner of tiles) are not considered connected, so the wagon cannot
travel from one to the other. So the wagon has to use the roads to move—it’s a wagon, after all. [Also
note – a road that touches a city at a point but not at a gate in the wall is not connected to the city.
Also, a road running through a city via a tunnel is not connected to the city. – Chris O.] (confirmed
5/2013)

If none of the current land tiles contain cities that the wagon can drive between, doesn't it stands to reason that these miniature roads do not connect the cities for the purposes of the wagon?

S-CAR 6.3 - Footnote 229
This footnote belongs to a question from the Carcassonne-Forum
The picture of that example is on page 72.

S-CAR 6.3 - Fotnote 230

This is what I wrote to obervet03 about this question:
Quote
I haven't ask Georg Wild about the tile and the wagon.

But what I can say is, that if you like to drive from one finished city to the next city on that tile - that doesn't work, because the road is a feature and it is between the cities. And the wagon drives from one feature to the next one. In this case is the crossing a part of the road. And HiG said that this mini-little road is not for scoring because it's only a crossing. The wagon goes back to the supply from the player.
I know there is the tile from the first publishing of the expansion...but there is a road (a feature) and this road should be score 1 Point...

Offline Carcking

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 12:18:28 PM »
First-off - Welcome to the CC Forum jamiehumphries89! Thanks for you contribution!

I would say the question is not implicitly answered by FN229 because in those cases the cities are connected by roads, that are connected to crossings.

There may be a consideration that those small roads (driveways? as referred to by obervet03) are coherent with the city feature. Because they can't be occupied separately they may be considered an extension of the city itself. So to drive onto them is to drive onto the city.

The FN230 simply clarifies that this hasn't been officially addressed by HiG or other authority.

Offline obervet

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 12:29:14 PM »
There is a footnote marked as unresolved under the section on Abbey & Mayor:

Quote
230 There is not an official clarification about the ability of the wagon to move directly from one
city to the other on the tile shown above, where the miniature roads (driveways?) cannot be occupied
by a follower.

Isn't this answered (implictly) by the previous footnote?

Quote
229 Question: What is the definition of [connected/adjacent/neighboring] for the Wagon? If two
city walls are touching (maybe even only at a point), can I drive my Wagon from one to another?
Answer: “Connected” means roads which lead to crossings and roads which head directly “into” a
city or a cloister. Two cities never connect to each other (in the current land tiles). City walls that
touch at a point (such as at the corner of tiles) are not considered connected, so the wagon cannot
travel from one to the other. So the wagon has to use the roads to move—it’s a wagon, after all. [Also
note – a road that touches a city at a point but not at a gate in the wall is not connected to the city.
Also, a road running through a city via a tunnel is not connected to the city. – Chris O.] (confirmed
5/2013)

If none of the current land tiles contain cities that the wagon can drive between, doesn't it stands to reason that these miniature roads do not connect the cities for the purposes of the wagon?

In my mind, the wagon should not be able to travel between the two cities. Wagons can really only travel on or to claimable features. Because the two little driveways (I'm sticking with that term) cannot be claimed by a follower, I don't feel that the wagon can use them for travelling.

However, as Carcking notes, this hasn't been explicitly stated by HiG. Years ago they commented that no cities connect to each other (FN229), which should indicate that the tile in FN 230 cannot serve as connectors (since that tile had been published already). Nonetheless, rulings can change over time. Again, as Carcking states, if the driveways are considered part of the city, the wagon would be allowed to hop over the crossing to the other city. Since the topic has been brought up on this forum relatively recently, I felt that it shouldn't be closed without revisiting it.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 12:53:22 PM »
Please look at my dictionary:

A crossing is a part of a road.

And also I never saw a wagon (or a car) that could be hopping.

Offline kebe

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 01:02:44 PM »
Thank you for this awesome work. I like to play with a lot of expansions, and an updated CAR is an invaluable tool when doing so. I have one small comment, however. On page 123 it says that the Carcassonne Winter Edition is distributed only as a digital download. This is not 100% correct anymore. Both German and Scandinavian language editions (at least) was published as physical games in 2012. I don't know about the German version, but the Scandinavian version also includes the Gingerbread Man expansion (with the originally intended 6 tiles).

Since there is a separate CAR for the Winter Edition, maybe this can be omitted from the normal CAR.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2013, 01:15:47 PM »
Thank you for this awesome work. I like to play with a lot of expansions, and an updated CAR is an invaluable tool when doing so. I have one small comment, however. On page 123 it says that the Carcassonne Winter Edition is distributed only as a digital download. This is not 100% correct anymore. Both German and Scandinavian language editions (at least) was published as physical games in 2012. I don't know about the German version, but the Scandinavian version also includes the Gingerbread Man expansion (with the originally intended 6 tiles).

Since there is a separate CAR for the Winter Edition, maybe this can be omitted from the normal CAR.

The download version from Dec 2011 was the original basic Carcassonne only in the winter as a download at CundCo. Now the download isn't there anymore. (This you can find in the S-CAR 6.3)

The published Carcassonne Winter-Edition has 12 new tiles with wild animals also all the tiles have a new design from a different graphic-artist. (This you can find in the W-CAR 1.1)

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Complete Annotated Rules v. 6.3 and 1.1
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2013, 01:29:44 PM »
Quote
In my mind, the wagon should not be able to travel between the two cities. Wagons can really only travel on or to claimable features. Because the two little driveways (I'm sticking with that term) cannot be claimed by a follower, I don't feel that the wagon can use them for travelling.

The little driveways are complicated: A wagon that can not drive a driveway would be strange.
If the driveways are part of the city, the wagon should be allowed to drive (drive!way) to both roads of the crossing, but not to the other city. The wagon also should be allowed to drive from both roads to both cities (and from road to road).


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