Poll

Which version(s) of Cathars/Siege/Besiegers do you own or want to own?

I have all three of them
24 (28.6%)
I have one or two of them, and I want all three
20 (23.8%)
I have one or two of them, and that's enough for me
22 (26.2%)
I don't have any of them, and I want all three
5 (6%)
I don't have any of them, but I want to get one or two
10 (11.9%)
I don't have any of them and I don't want any of them
2 (2.4%)
Other (please explain)
1 (1.2%)

Total Members Voted: 84

Author Topic: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers  (Read 14479 times)

Offline jungleboy

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Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« on: January 11, 2016, 03:31:31 AM »
The Completionism Poll is a new weekly series where we ask how much of a completionist you are by breaking it down into different expansions and elements.

This week we're looking at Cathars / Siege / Besiegers, three mini-expansions that are essentially the same (although Besiegers contains two more tiles). The Cathars was originally released as a four-tile expansion in the German Spielbox Magazine in 2004. Siege, with the same mechanics and number of tiles but without the Cathars theme, was released in 2008 in the RGG English-language expansion Cult, Siege and Creativity. Finally, the six-tile Besiegers mini-expansion was released into the German market in 2013. Besiegers is widely available (on Cundco, for example), while the other two are harder to come by.

How much of a completionist are you? Which of these do you own or want to own? Discuss your thoughts below!

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2334.0
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 03:47:02 AM by jungleboy »

Offline Guy

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 04:02:19 AM »
I have all three and for the following reasons:


#1 - I am a completionist, I like having all the tiles with different artwork
#2 - When I play Carcassonne I like it to be a big game.  With only 4 or 6 tiles I find that the effect of Cathars/Siege/Besiegers is not as noticeable - especially when playing with expansions which have a lot of city tiles such as Traders & Builders.  I usually include Besiegers and then at least one of the other two - usually Siege (see #3 below)
#3 - I like to have as close to matching colours for the fields.  Although I love the Cathar artwork (the prettiest of the 3 in my opinion) the grass is a totally different colour to the rest of my collection.  Siege matches up better.


Overall I really like the mechanic that comes with these expansions so would rather have more opportunity to see these utilized than not!

Offline jungleboy

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 04:36:06 AM »
#3 - I like to have as close to matching colours for the fields.  Although I love the Cathar artwork (the prettiest of the 3 in my opinion) the grass is a totally different colour to the rest of my collection.  Siege matches up better.

I also have all three and definitely agree with this comment about the field colour! I also almost never play with Cathars purely because of the colour.

Usually I don't feel the need to own different versions of essentially the same expansion (e.g. Crop Circles, Windroses). But I love both the siege theme, the artwork and the playability of this expansion so all three were definitely necessary for my own vision of what a complete set includes. Although I don't play with more than one of them in any one game because I don't tedn to play big games.

Offline danisthirty

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 05:33:57 AM »
Even though I prefer smaller games and have never used them all in the same game, I own all three of these. Die Belagerers is probably my favourite, purely because there are 6 tiles rather than 4. The differences between the rules are only very subtle, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually used a cloister to escape from a besieged city anyway, so the proximity of the cloister to the besieged tile or meeple (or whatever the difference is) isn’t much of a game-changer.

As far as I’m aware, Cathars was available with one of the Spielbox magazines, and then via the Spielbox almanac although there’s isn’t any difference between them (that I know of). Similarly, Die Belagerers was first released in a special box of Carcassonne that was only available through Mueller stores (in Germany) and was limited to a production run of 1000 boxes. Then it became available through Cundco, and then they did a second release of the special boxes, which are still available on Cundco now (http://cundco.de/en/boardgames/carcassonne/109/carcassonne-metallbox?c=39).
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Offline whaleyland

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 01:06:16 PM »
As far as I’m aware, Cathars was available with one of the Spielbox magazines, and then via the Spielbox almanac although there’s isn’t any difference between them (that I know of).
I believe the Almanach was a special issue devoted exclusively to Hans im Glück games and expansions. Katharer also had a third (and fourth) release when they discovered two separate stores of the expansion at Spielbox, or so they claim. The first was in 2007, because I remember I just missed it. The second was in 2010 or so, because I did manage to pick up a second copy then.

Regarding the poll, I own all three and I am totally a completionist, but I got Siege before I got Cathars, not wanting at the time to shell out the €25.00 the expansion would probably cost (I got it for a bit less, fortunately). I consider them the same expansion and I much prefer the Cathars theme and graphics to the slightly cartoony Siege. Besiegers I consider an entirely different expansion, much like I think of River I and II, Crop Circles I and II, or Halflings I and II. Obviously they are the same mechanic, but the 6 different tile arrangements put them in separate categories. I probably wouldn't play a game with Cathars and Siege, but I would play one with Cathars/Siege and Besiegers because the tiles are actually different.

Offline Hounk

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 01:38:07 PM »
I thought in the Almanach had been Cult, not Cathars?

Anyhow, I just have the comon Besiegers/Belagerer and that's enough for me, although I really like this expansion.

Offline danisthirty

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 01:40:32 PM »
I thought in the Almanach had been Cult, not Cathars?

There was an HiG almanac as well as a Carcassonne almanac I believe. One came with Cathars, the other came with Cult.

Offline whaleyland

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 03:00:21 PM »
I thought in the Almanach had been Cult, not Cathars?

There was an HiG almanac as well as a Carcassonne almanac I believe. One came with Cathars, the other came with Cult.
You are correct and I made a mistake. The Carcassonne Almanach was the one with Die Katharer. Cult came with the Hans im Glück one, which is why it was paired with the Stone Age expansion.

Offline SRBO

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 11:28:51 PM »
Those lucky 8 guys with all 3 of them.  No my aim is to get them all. But my guess is that it will be very very hard to obtain them.

Offline jungleboy

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2016, 03:34:37 AM »
Those lucky 8 guys with all 3 of them.  No my aim is to get them all. But my guess is that it will be very very hard to obtain them.

Siege is available as part of Cult, Siege and Creativity at the OXID Gift Shop, but the price has gone up from €24.99 when Dan and I got them a year or so ago to €29.99. Cathars is obviously the most difficult of the three to obtain.

Offline ARabidMeerkat

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2016, 08:01:19 AM »
I'm very happy with just Besiegers. This is mainly because I only joined the Carc world in 2014 and so didn't even know there were others or had access to them.

I count this as having a complete collection in the original artwork since this is simply a re-release and update to a previous one.

I treat it as I do CC1 and CC2, since these don't really differ! Some of you would disagree however.....
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Offline Decar

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2016, 08:05:39 AM »
Yep, I'd consider CC1 & CC2 and Besiegers & Cathars different, because the tile configuration is different. Even if the rules could be implemented in the same way.

Offline SRBO

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2016, 08:06:47 AM »
They have a completely diffrent layout. And so different tile haaha but thats my opinion.

Edit: decar beat me to it haha

Offline ARabidMeerkat

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2016, 08:45:01 AM »
I see where you are coming from but I just consider them to be slight graphic changes rather than new expansions. If they had different rules, then I would have tried to purchase them.

It's the same reason why I'm not too fused that I've never owned the GQ#11 tiles. They are just variants with the same rules as others. It's also why I won't be purchasing Carc2 as it's (apart from Abbots) the same game with the same rules but different looking tiles.

Would you agree with this?

Offline danisthirty

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Re: Completionism Poll #1: Cathars, Siege and Besiegers
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2016, 08:50:41 AM »
I see where you are coming from but I just consider them to be slight graphic changes rather than new expansions. If they had different rules, then I would have tried to purchase them.

It's the same reason why I'm not too fused that I've never owned the GQ#11 tiles. They are just variants with the same rules as others. It's also why I won't be purchasing Carc2 as it's (apart from Abbots) the same game with the same rules but different looking tiles.

Would you agree with this?

I don't entirely agree with you, but that's no bad thing. The whole point of this series was to explore different ideas to what completionism means to different people. It would be a pretty boring thread if we all agreed on everything! ;)


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