Author Topic: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles  (Read 5934 times)

Offline Smooth

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Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« on: May 14, 2015, 01:40:45 PM »
So first up - hello everyone, I'm new here, and I really enjoy this forum!

These are my questions (I have not been able to deduce this from CAR v7.3)

Q1: How many points does a castle score when a farm is connected to a barn? See illustration below. The rules says "...1 point for every completed city..." - technically, I guess, a castle is not a city, so does that mean it is worth 0 points?

Q2: Same as Q1 but with a pig involved. See illustration below.

Q3: What if the castle has not been completed?

Edit: Elaboration of questions and addition of Q3.

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1754.0
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 02:01:29 PM by Smooth »

Offline loki

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2015, 02:44:41 PM »
as I understand the S-CAR

Q1: How many points does a castle score when a farm is connected to a barn? See illustration below. The rules says "...1 point for every completed city..." - technically, I guess, a castle is not a city, so does that mean it is worth 0 points?

A Barn barn would score 4 points / completed city               5 points / castle

Q2: Same as Q1 but with a pig involved. See illustration below.

The pig should have been removed along with the farmers when the Barn was placed so it does not score in conjunction with a barn

Q3: What if the castle has not been completed?

A castle is a one tile/token structure so it can never be incomplete



Offline Rosco

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2015, 03:00:11 PM »
I am not sure of the answers however I think loki has misunderstood smooth slightly.  I think smooth is referring to the points gained when you join a farmer to a farm with a barn ,  and then doing the same but also adding a pig.  And finally , as I understand it ,  a castle is incomplete until it scores - ie another feature scores within the 6 adjacent tiles therefore causing the castle to score and become complete.
Just lay the damn tile!

Offline loki

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2015, 04:02:44 PM »
I am not sure of the answers however I think loki has misunderstood smooth slightly.

yes , sorry

Offline CKorfmann

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2015, 07:34:22 PM »
Firstly, welcome to the forums.  There's a lot to take in, so I hope you enjoy the ride! 

You should think of these features each in terms of +1.  The barn is +1 per city (over the standard farmer), the Castle is +1 (over the standard city), both would count, so this would be +2.  The pig farm tile would likely work the same way. 

The Pig presents a different problem.  To my knowledge, there hasn't been an updated ruling on this, but I could be very wrong since I've been out of the loop for a while now.  However, I believe the rules were understood to mean that your pig can not be added to a farm with your barn since it is attached to a farmer and all the farmers are removed (and there was confusion as to whether the barn was considered a follower).  That being said, I think it is a somewhat common house rule to allow the pig to be attached to the farm with your barn on it.  If you are connecting your farm to another farm with someone else's barn on it, you score for your farm immediately (I'm pretty sure) and I think you should be allowed to place your pig on that tile since it is not a follower and is attached to your farmer, so it would give your farm the +1 bonus and come right back off. 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 07:38:07 PM by CKorfmann »
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Offline loki

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 08:38:25 PM »

Scoring when a farm is connected
No farmer may be deployed to a farm with a barn. If the placement of a tile results
in a farm with farmers being connected to a farm with a barn, the farmers are scored
immediately.   However, the player with the majority of farmers scores only 1 point
for every completed city (with a pig: 2 points instead of 1.) These farmers are
then also returned to their owners after scoring.


I never did understand why the farmers got such a poor deal if you were connecting to a farm that already had a barn in place

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 09:58:35 PM »
Since now there is no answer for the question of connecting a farm with castles to a farm with a bar.

There are two specifications in the rules: At the end of the game a castle is worth 1 point more than a city. A city on a connected farm is 1 point , 2 points with pig on the connected farm.

This leads me to give 2 points for a castle on a farm connecting to a farm with barn and 3 points for a castle on a farm with pig connecting to a farm with barn.

We should add this to the CAR after clarification with HiG.

Offline CKorfmann

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 11:15:11 PM »
Since now there is no answer for the question of connecting a farm with castles to a farm with a bar.

I addressed that, but perhaps I wasn't clear.  That's what I meant by +2.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 11:42:14 PM »
In the official rules is no word that a pig can't stand on a farm with a barn. That means it is possible, as long as the turn of the player is not finished (the score).

The picture with placement of a new tile - connecting a farmers farm with the barns farm:
turn order:
- 1. draw and place a tile - here: with this placement of the tile are the farms connected
- 2. move wood (place a figure) - here: place a pig, the follower (farmer) is still on the connected farm with barn
- 3. score - here: the farmer (follower) scores 1 point for each finished city plus 1 point for each city because of the pig and 2 points for the finished castle. After the score the follower comes back to the players supply and then the pig is without a farmer on a farm - that means the pig comes also back to the player.

BigBox3 from 2010 page 16 -  left side: score during the game - right side: score after the game
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 11:58:42 PM by kettlefish »

Offline Smooth

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 12:45:22 AM »
Thanks for the answers. It seems to me that CKorfmann, Fritz_Spinne and kettlefish agree on this.

So just to make sure I understand correctly:

  • In attachment (main post) one (no pig) the red player would score 1 point for the city and 2 points for the castle, that is 3 points total.
  • In attachment two (with pig) the red player would score 2 points for the city and 3 points for the castle, that is 5 points total.
  • Furthermore, if the castle has not been completed (in other words: a follower is still standing on it), it worth 0 points.

Is this correct?


BigBox3 from 2010 page 16 -  left side: score during the game - right side: score after the game

I think these rules are easier to understand than the S-CAR, and I'm pretty sure the S-CAR doesn't mention the castles in this context. What's the best place to put in a request to change/update/elaborate on this in the S-CAR?

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 01:17:27 AM »
Points for the castle are scored regardless of it's completeness. In rules for BC&B it isn't mentioned that castle must be completed to receive points for a farmer.
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Offline Smooth

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2015, 02:29:40 AM »
Points for the castle are scored regardless of it's completeness. In rules for BC&B it isn't mentioned that castle must be completed to receive points for a farmer.

The rules that kettlefish posted from BigBox3 it explicitly says "2 point / completed castle adjacent to farm". However, the S-CAR mentions in footnote 375 on page 119:

"The RGG Big Box 3 scoring guide at the end of the rules claims that farms only score points for completed castles, but this is presumably a misprint, as there is no indication in the rules that this is actually true (especially as followers from incomplete castles are removed, so there would be no way to tell which castles were incomplete and which were complete when scoring farms)."

so I guess you're right MrNumbers - and that completeness of the castle never affects the scoring when it comes to farms!

Offline Hounk

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 06:11:00 AM »
I never did understand why the farmers got such a poor deal if you were connecting to a farm that already had a barn in place
It actually is quite easy and rewarding, to connect a few farmers to a barn farm. And the points you can get from this are huge, once a barn farm prospers, and doubles even in a game with pig. So I would not consider this a "poor deal", rather powerfull.

Offline jungleboy

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 07:09:25 AM »
I never did understand why the farmers got such a poor deal if you were connecting to a farm that already had a barn in place
It actually is quite easy and rewarding, to connect a few farmers to a barn farm. And the points you can get from this are huge, once a barn farm prospers, and doubles even in a game with pig. So I would not consider this a "poor deal", rather powerfull.

I agree with Hounk here. It's not often that a farm with a farmer is accidentally connected to a barn farm. It's usually a deliberate strategy to try to place a farmer near a barn farm and connect it to get some points and your farmer back. If this move was worth 3 points per city it would be too much. As it is, getting two points per city by adding a pig and doing this several times can give you many points.

Offline loki

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Re: Scoring farm when connected to barn with castles
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2015, 09:52:54 AM »
I never did understand why the farmers got such a poor deal if you were connecting to a farm that already had a barn in place
It actually is quite easy and rewarding, to connect a few farmers to a barn farm. And the points you can get from this are huge, once a barn farm prospers, and doubles even in a game with pig. So I would not consider this a "poor deal", rather powerfull.

I agree with Hounk here. It's not often that a farm with a farmer is accidentally connected to a barn farm. It's usually a deliberate strategy to try to place a farmer near a barn farm and connect it to get some points and your farmer back. If this move was worth 3 points per city it would be too much. As it is, getting two points per city by adding a pig and doing this several times can give you many points.


I suppose it does work out OK when you are actually playing, it just looks a bit unfair when you see it written out in the rules.

It is a bit like the saying about economists

    “they all agree that it works in practice, they are just not sure if it will work in principle”


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