Poll

How do you primarily use the Flying Machines?

To attempt to claim unclaimed features.
3 (21.4%)
To try and claim other players' features.
11 (78.6%)
I generally ignore the Flying Machine aspect of the tile.
0 (0%)
I use them in some other creatively strategic manner (describe below).
0 (0%)
I don't ever play with or don't own The Flying Machines.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: May 15, 2015, 03:05:59 PM

Author Topic: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35  (Read 5694 times)

Offline whaleyland

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The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« on: May 08, 2015, 03:05:59 PM »
ELEMENT OF THE WEEK: THE FLYING MACHINES

Each week, a specific element from an expansion is chosen for deeper discussion. This is an opportunity for you, Carcassonne's biggest English-language fans, to discuss strategies and problems you have encountered through the years regarding specific expansion elements. All forms of critique – from the most joyous to the most scathing – are encouraged.

This week's element is THE FLYING MACHINES (Carcassonne Mini #1).The rules of the mini expansion state that when one of the eight Flying Machine tiles is drawn (it has a feature printed on it), the player can choose instead of claiming the tile to roll the die. The feature has an arrow on it pointing in one of the diagonal or orthogonal directions. That is the direction of placement (based on how the tile is oriented when placed) and the die roll designates how many tiles away the Follower can be placed. Presumably the type of Follower has to be decided before rolling the die. Whatever tile the arrow and die designate, the player may place a Follower on a feature on that tile, even an occupied one, except for a Farm. If an available feature is there, it MUSt be claimed. Slightly confusing, but pretty straight forward when played.

When the Carcassonne Minis series first released, I admit that I was underwhelmed. The concept was great but only a few of the minis seemed overly interesting. The Flying Machines were definitely one of the least interesting concepts to me at the time. One of the primary reasons I felt this way because of the introduction of a die to Carcassonne. Carcassonne until then was a dice-free game — the randomness was based on tile draws, but a die changed something about it, increased the randomness. Granted, it was restricted in its use to these tiles alone. The ability to steal/share features through the mechanic, though, proved to make the expansion more interesting, much akin to The Count but with a more random element. After around five plays of the expansion, I've grown to like it, especially in games with The Dragon, The Tower, or The Catapult, where vacant features on the board abound. Discuss your relationship with The Flying Machines and how you optimise your use of this strategic element.

Next Week: The Wind Roses  ???

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1741.0

Offline jma03

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2015, 03:27:09 PM »
I have not that mini expansion.
I play with her in JCZ .
I have a doubt:
when I place a tile and choose the direction few spaces can not move until the stand .
because there will be dice and the computer will randomly choose ??
thx
When you lose, do not look at what you lost, but what's left to win ..

Offline franks

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2015, 04:47:05 PM »
I love drawing the flying machines and loathe when they are drawn against me!

We use them primarily to get into cities. They’re a great way to sneak in … unless it’s coming in your own city  >:(

In a recent game my wife was fortunate to have drawn three flyers in a relatively short period and was successful with each to get into a very large city for the steal Grrrrrr  :D

I don’t mind the die and at least it is wooden. I think there had to be a chance element to its function and it suitably portraits the inaccuracy of such a feat.

We really enjoy this feature and include it in all out mega games.
Franks

Wanna play Carc? Can we add just one more expansion?

Offline danisthirty

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2015, 11:41:03 PM »
I particularly like how this expansion works in terms of the direction you can "fly" in being determined by the orientation of the tile. It adds a lot of extra thought to the process of placing these tiles.

I also like how larger features become more vulnerable when the The Fliers is included as it encourages players to either keep their features small or build around them to reduce the chance of them being flown into.

Finally, I like how this expansion allows players to share cloisters for the first time. I don't know why, it just seems neat. Or deeply annoying if someone flies their mega-meeple onto a cloister that I'd claimed with a normal meeple.

...Presumably the type of Follower has to be decided before rolling the die.

Is this definitely the case? I know that you have to claim something if you choose to deploy to the flying machine and are able to do so based on your role, but I thought you could decide what to deploy once you knew where it was going to be deployed? If not, and you were only interested in flying into a city (and there was a risk that you might end up being forced to claim something else) then you could choose to deploy your Mayor for example, before the role, knowing that if he misses the city there won't be any other valid placements so you could take him back without risking being forced to claim something less valuable...
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Offline Hounk

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2015, 01:29:38 AM »
I was assuming exactly that. You have to place the follower first on the flying machine, then role the dice, then move it to the rolled tile. So yes, if the right role gives you the option to land in a city, and a wrong one force you into a street or cloister, where the meeple would be trapped, choosing the mayor, if available, should be an option to avoid this.

Offline Carcking

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2015, 08:26:27 PM »
...Presumably the type of Follower has to be decided before rolling the die....

My copy of the English rules does state that you first place your follower on the Wing symbol, then roll the die. So I agree with whaley's presumption here.

That makes an interesting point regarding the Mayor. The rules for the Mayor state that you can only place him on a City. (I think maybe there has been clarification along the way that he may be placed on top of a tower too? Not sure I recall that correctly.) But in the case of the Flier why wouldn't he still be able to land on a Road or a Cloister? The player is not choosing to place him there so the rule of the Mayor is not violated. He is choosing to place him on the Flier Wing. He just would have no scoring value in one of those other features. That is the player's gamble.
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 08:51:05 PM »
...Presumably the type of Follower has to be decided before rolling the die....

My copy of the English rules does state that you first place your follower on the Wing symbol, then roll the die. So I agree with whaley's presumption here.

That makes an interesting point regarding the Mayor. The rules for the Mayor state that you can only place him on a City. (I think maybe there has been clarification along the way that he may be placed on top of a tower too? Not sure I recall that correctly.) But in the case of the Flier why wouldn't he still be able to land on a Road or a Cloister? The player is not choosing to place him there so the rule of the Mayor is not violated. He is choosing to place him on the Flier Wing. He just would have no scoring value in one of those other features. That is the player's gamble.
So the real question is: can a Mayor still be on a feature that it cannot score for? Interesting problem that I hadn't thought of before. Just to add another layer, if the Mayor cannot score for a cloister or road, then does it still get removed when the feature is completed? I'd assume it does, but that's just another worm in this can.

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2015, 10:23:21 PM »
But in the case of the Flier why wouldn't he still be able to land on a Road or a Cloister? The player is not choosing to place him there so the rule of the Mayor is not violated. He is choosing to place him on the Flier Wing. He just would have no scoring value in one of those other features. That is the player's gamble.

We have very clear footnote #239:
Quote
The mayor can be a flier. However, the mayor can only land on an unfinished city. If an unfinished city is not available on the tile where the mayor lands, the mayor returns to the player’s supply.
"I never lose. Either I win or I learn." (Nelson Mandela)

Offline Carcking

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2015, 03:08:12 AM »
But in the case of the Flier why wouldn't he still be able to land on a Road or a Cloister? The player is not choosing to place him there so the rule of the Mayor is not violated. He is choosing to place him on the Flier Wing. He just would have no scoring value in one of those other features. That is the player's gamble.

We have very clear footnote #239:
Quote
The mayor can be a flier. However, the mayor can only land on an unfinished city. If an unfinished city is not available on the tile where the mayor lands, the mayor returns to the player’s supply.

Ah, good catch Mr. Numbers. But still, that's too bad IMO. It means you can commit your Mayor to the Wing with little risk and no "penalty" for missing a city. I think they missed an oppotunity there to add a little challenge in the game.

Offline danisthirty

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2015, 03:27:49 AM »
But in the case of the Flier why wouldn't he still be able to land on a Road or a Cloister? The player is not choosing to place him there so the rule of the Mayor is not violated. He is choosing to place him on the Flier Wing. He just would have no scoring value in one of those other features. That is the player's gamble.

We have very clear footnote #239:
Quote
The mayor can be a flier. However, the mayor can only land on an unfinished city. If an unfinished city is not available on the tile where the mayor lands, the mayor returns to the player’s supply.

Ah, good catch Mr. Numbers. But still, that's too bad IMO. It means you can commit your Mayor to the Wing with little risk and no "penalty" for missing a city. I think they missed an oppotunity there to add a little challenge in the game.

This was the main reason I questioned whether it was better to decide what you’re going to deploy after rolling the dice as you could be forced to deploy a follower to any feature you’ve entitled yourself to claim (assuming you have something applicable in your supply) and wouldn’t be able to fall back on the validity of follower placement to ensure that you don’t waste something on an invaluable road or whatever.

However, the rules as they are make sense in that the flying machines themselves are features that have to be claimed by placing something on the icon, then rolling the dice as the second part to this. So it would seem a bit wonky to allow the choice to be made afterwards.

Offline jungleboy

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 09:36:44 AM »
We discussed this in another thread a while back but I used the Flyer with the Tower once and found it to be a great combination. Of course, we didn't realise that Flyers couldn't land on fields, so we were playing it wrong. But actually, this turned out to be really cool, so this is an option as a house rule.

Offline Christopher

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 02:21:04 PM »
This is more like it! Nice bit of discussion, I love it.

Fliers are brilliant. There are so few opportunities to place a follower in an already owned feature. Fliers present that option, but not as simply as just popping a follower in. You have the luck element of the die, and the cleverness of tile placement. I love that the tile dictates the direction. You have to really think about the tile placement to maximise your chances of landing the follower. With a decent tile placement, you can give yourself a two out of three or even three out of three chance on landing it. Player need to be more defensive about their features, and cloister can be shared or stolen. Wonderful. Works well as a mini, too, I think too many of these would be problematic. Lovely expansion though.

Maximise is spelt with an 's!' Darn this wretched spellcheck! Darn its American language! Incidentally, does anyone get irritated by 'Carcassonne' being spellchecked?
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Offline Decar

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 03:36:03 PM »
Actually that's a myth. The Americans sensible standardized their spellings to use a 'z' long before the British ever tried.  Until recently spelling things with an 's' was considered a Frenchism and more uncommon. There are some words where 'ise' must be used because it's part of the word, rather than being a verb: like 'enterprise'.

Either way  Be carful when spelling 'analyse' though.... I once had to perform an action on some results I wasn't expecting!

Forgot to include a link:

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/03/ize-or-ise/
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 12:50:44 AM by MrNumbers, Reason: Merged 2 posts »

Offline Christopher

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Re: The Flying Machines – Element of the Week #35
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2016, 01:17:21 AM »
Actually that's a myth. The Americans sensible standardized their spellings to use a 'z' long before the British ever tried.  Until recently spelling things with an 's' was considered a Frenchism and more uncommon. There are some words where 'ise' must be used because it's part of the word, rather than being a verb: like 'enterprise'.

Either way  Be carful when spelling 'analyse' though.... I once had to perform an action on some results I wasn't expecting!

Forgot to include a link:

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/03/ize-or-ise/

:O
...
...
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I don't know what to think anymore.


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