Author Topic: Carcassonne for 8 Players  (Read 24657 times)

Offline Hounk

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2015, 03:39:22 PM »
Most of the Carcassonne games I played had been between Christmas and New Years Eve last year. During this time I normally meet my big family so I had some 2 player games just with a cousin of mine, but also some with aunts and uncles and other cousins up to 6 players. And we considered the 6 player games different but still fun. You have to arrange yourself, building a city here with one opponent,a road there with an other one. And then on some occasions, when the timing is right, try to sneak an other meeple inside, but not always, since you need other people to finish your buildings. So there is plenty of strategies in this, although different from a two player game. I must admit though, that we were of course just establishing this on a very basic level, since the game was new to all of us. However, thats why I considered scaling up to 8 players, when I noticed there are meeple sets in other colors, because there would have people for 8 player games at least in my family and there will be again next Christmas.

Meanwhile the lady from HiG answered me. She confirmed that she was not sure about it and considered my thoughts about the scaling comprehensible but according to a colleague, it should still be preferable to order 10 more tower pieces. So taking into account, that this is also the opinion of whaleyland and Mr.Numbers I will do so. I think, I will also order the extra bridges and castles, just to make sure.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:57:07 PM by Hounk »

Offline Scott

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2015, 08:20:32 PM »
This topic has sort of been discussed before, but some new expansions have emerged since then, and I'm always interested in new ideas:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=545

Everything that was covered previously appears to have been covered again, and in greater detail! I'd really like to see us develop a best-possible solution to this question, and then perhaps added  to the CAR? I think addressing it on a per-player basis is the best approach, so that people can easily calculate how much of everything they need to buy for however many players they want to be able to support.

Considering the challenges in acquiring extra tunnel tokens and little buildings, I wonder whether those should be moved to the optional components list. I feel that it is not fair to recommend purchasing something that is not easily available from Carcassonne Shoppe or Cundco.

I'd like to see some more research to support what an appropriate number of tower pieces should be. I'm ok with adding more tower pieces, but should it really level out at 5 per player, or should it decrease further to 4 per player? I still lean towards the idea of leaving things like tower pieces and bridges in a shared pool rather than allocating specific numbers to each player, but I acknowledge that this opinion may not be shared by others. Perhaps this idea could be included as an alternative.

Offline eddebaby

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2015, 02:03:32 AM »
This topic has sort of been discussed before, but some new expansions have emerged since then, and I'm always interested in new ideas:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=545

Everything that was covered previously appears to have been covered again, and in greater detail! I'd really like to see us develop a best-possible solution to this question, and then perhaps added  to the CAR? I think addressing it on a per-player basis is the best approach, so that people can easily calculate how much of everything they need to buy for however many players they want to be able to support.

Considering the challenges in acquiring extra tunnel tokens and little buildings, I wonder whether those should be moved to the optional components list. I feel that it is not fair to recommend purchasing something that is not easily available from Carcassonne Shoppe or Cundco.

I'd like to see some more research to support what an appropriate number of tower pieces should be. I'm ok with adding more tower pieces, but should it really level out at 5 per player, or should it decrease further to 4 per player? I still lean towards the idea of leaving things like tower pieces and bridges in a shared pool rather than allocating specific numbers to each player, but I acknowledge that this opinion may not be shared by others. Perhaps this idea could be included as an alternative.

Thanks Scott, I have tried to modify my previous post, items in italics are derived from the assumption that we need "more" playing pieces because there are more than 6 players. As far as I can see, the only expansion describing more than 6 players is the Halflings. I have also added rule clarification where I can (in bold, from the S-CAR v7.3) from the corresponding "Preparation" sections.

Quote
If we consider each extra player in a game with more than 6 players (making sure players are no worse off than with 6 players), then each player will need:

– 1 Complete Follower and Figure Sets (in appropriate colour) [Alternate colour Phantoms not available  :(y) :@ Carcatronn :(y):@ ]
– 1 Extra 50/100 counter (1 per player)  [In case all players score over 50]
– 1 Extra Abbey Tile (1 per player) [At the beginning of the game, every player receives one abbey tile]
– 2 Halfling Tiles [{mix} all triangular tiles face down, and {give} 2 to each player]
– 1 of each type of catapult token (1 of each per player) [Every player {...} receives 1 catapult token of each type—a total of 4 for each player.] [These could be shared without much difficulty, no player colour on tokens]

1 pair of Tunnel tokens (in appropriate colour) [Every player receives the tunnel tokens corresponding to his or her color. In games of 2, each player may use 3 sets of tokens; in games with 3 players, each may use 2 sets.] [Maybe you should also add enough tunnel entrances on tiles for the number of players too.]
1 of each Little Buildings (3 Buildings total per player) [Distribute the 18 {...} buildings evenly among all players. In the 4 or 5 player game, put the excess buildings back into the box.]
5 Extra Tower pieces [Each player receives a number of tower pieces, according to the total number of players: 2 players: 10 pieces each, 3 players: 9 pieces each, 4 players: 7 pieces each, 5 players: 6 pieces each, 6 players: 5 pieces each]
2 Extra Bridges (2 per player) [With 2 to 4 players, each receives 3 bridges and 3 castles.]
2 Extra Castles (2 per player) [With 5 or 6 players, each receives 2 bridges and 2 castles.]

Maybe we can get clarification from HiG? Preferably to at least 12 players?

P.S. Little Buildings is available (for €2.99) from cundco.de

Offline Hounk

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2015, 02:27:31 PM »
This topic has sort of been discussed before, but some new expansions have emerged since then, and I'm always interested in new ideas:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=545

Everything that was covered previously appears to have been covered again, and in greater detail!
Thanks for sharing the link. I don't think, everything there had been covered here as well. Very interesting was your paragraph of tile scaling. Your calculation of minimum 112 tiles for 8 players seems quite coherent to me. According to that, base + I&C + T&B would exactly meet this requirements, adding River I&II giving a little extra space. And this seems quite suffice to me, because I would not consider playing 8 player games with people, who have never played Carcassonne before, so there would be at least a few games of teaching with I&C to the max for everybody. And after a few games with this setup, there could be other expansions added to the mix to further increase to a nice balanced game. Of course, the T&B tiles are a little more complicated with their odd shaped citys with road extensions than base and I&C, but since this mix plays beautiful with a lesser amount of players, it should still be possible with more players, as long as the total number of tiles are enough.

Whaleylands suggestion with the "Wheel of Fortune" seemed appealing at first thought, but I am not so sure, if this "roulette like theming" of this expansion is really something, I would like to add to Carcassonne. Plus it seems to be out of print and not so easy to get at a reasonable price anymore.

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2015, 02:36:05 PM »
I wasn't necessarily saying that you'd have to include the Wheel of Fortune expansion in the game, only the tiles. It includes a full set of 72 tiles, some of which borrowed configurations from later expansions. Plus the tiles are watermarked which means they can be separated out later, if so desired. But I agree that obtaining this expansion may be well near impossible.

Offline jungleboy

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2015, 02:44:22 PM »
Whaleylands suggestion with the "Wheel of Fortune" seemed appealing at first thought, but I am not so sure, if this "roulette like theming" of this expansion is really something, I would like to add to Carcassonne. Plus it seems to be out of print and not so easy to get at a reasonable price anymore.

Wheel of Fortune is available here. I don't know if you think €45 is reasonable or not. I bought it in a store in Switzerland three weeks ago for about €25.

Offline Hounk

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2015, 02:49:30 PM »
Well in general, the watermarks might be a very big advantage. In my case however it is not that important, since I own the base game from the Big Box 4 which has a much darker dye of the fields than probably any other regular HiG print. (The tiles are also slightly thiner, but that would be not usable to distinguish the two different sets of base game, while the color of the fields would on first sight.)

EDIT @jungleboy: 45€ would be to much for me. Not principally: if I would dig into the mechanism of the expansion and I know, it is out of print, I would probably buy it. But I won't build up a "complete Carcasonne collection" anyway, leaving out Catapult, Wind Roses, Darmstadt, etc., so there is no reason to buy it for sake of completeness. Of course, if I consider buying a second base game, and I get for the same price or a little more WoT, I would rather get WoT.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 03:00:41 PM by Hounk »

Offline Scott

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2015, 07:58:13 PM »
If you have both sets of Halflings, you already have enough for 12 players.

We could make a catapult token usage tracking sheet for those who don't want to obtain a second set. (Was bad enough buying Catapult the first time...)

The four Tunnel expansion tiles have 10 tunnel entrances. If you're playing P&D, you have one more tile with 2 entrances, for a total of 12 entrances matching the number of tunnel tokens. (I also found a tile with 2 tunnel entrances in A&M.) If you add more tunnel tokens, should we also be scaling the number of tunnel tiles, or is it a case of first-come-first-served?

Adding Wheel of Fortune or a second base game might be nicer in a 10+ player game, especially if a few of the players are new. In that case I wouldn't play with the wheel, just the tiles.

To connect the discussion of tile scaling back to the earlier discussion about cloister scaling, I think it might be helpful to have a list of cloisters added per expansion:
+1 cloister = River, I&C, T&B, Tower, GQ11, A&M, Catapult, BC&B, Festival, Halflings 1
+2 cloisters = P&D, H&S
+4 cloisters = Goldmines
+5 cloisters = Spielbox Cult
+6 cloisters = RGG Cult, German Monasteries, Dutch/Belgian Monasteries
+7 cloisters = CK&C (1 from King, 1 from River 2, and 5 from Cult), Wheel of Fortune

The conclusion I draw from this investigation is that both WoF and large expansions are suitable for increasing the tiles-to-players ratio while maintaining the cloisters-to-tiles ratio. Minis which are not on the list above (the numbered minis, windroses, crop circles, plague, cathars, besiegers, tunnel) add zero cloister tiles, so you should add them after reaching the minimum number of tiles, or they need to be added together with an expansion that has a high cloister-to-tile ratio such as Goldmines, one of the separate cult expansions, or one of the monastery expansions.

The "smallest" large expansion has 12 tiles, so I think Fritz is right about a 1:12 cloister-to-tile ratio. You would probably need to add most or all of the zero-cloister expansions to be able to justify adding a 6-tile monastery expansion without removing cloisters to maintain the balance.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 10:28:59 AM by Scott, Reason: H&S has two cloisters »

Offline Hounk

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2015, 01:18:32 AM »
Scaling the 10 entrances for 6 players up to 8 players, you would "need" 13 1/3 entrances, so the 14 including the P&D and A&M tiles would suite perfectly. Of course for even more players, the ratio decrease, but since there is no scaling between 2 and 6 players regarding tunnel entrances and a "first comes, first served" solution for 6 players in the rules of the expansion, I would think, this can be applied to any number of players. The more players there are, the more I would take into consideration adding the two P&D and A&M tiles into the game, even if not playing with the rest of this expansions and skipping the other tiles.

There are two cloisters in H&S.

Offline Scott

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2015, 10:30:19 AM »
There are two cloisters in H&S.

Oops, I totally counted both cloisters when I was looking at the tiles, but I put it in the 1 cloister list by accident. Fixed!


Offline eddebaby

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2015, 09:24:21 AM »
Here are some Catapult tokens where I have added a coloured border to them with enough for 12 players:

(Click the image to go to a higher resolution version which should be fit for 300dpi printing.)

Also included are the extra 6 coloured tunnel tokens. Print two copies if you want to have the colour border on both sides of the Catapult tokens. You can then either stick them on the existing tokens or use spare/blank Carcassonne tiles or any other spare thick cardboard and cut to size.

Offline Wasgo

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2015, 01:04:40 PM »
It's funny. I'm not certain if I even want to be able to play 12 players, but I feel a compulsion to buy all the bits so I can now.

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2015, 01:18:33 PM »
It's funny. I'm not certain if I even want to be able to play 12 players, but I feel a compulsion to buy all the bits so I can now.
Do they have that many alternate colors now? I know they have Pink, Purple, Orange, and "nude". What are the other two? Brown and White?

Offline Wasgo

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2015, 01:20:03 PM »
It's funny. I'm not certain if I even want to be able to play 12 players, but I feel a compulsion to buy all the bits so I can now.
Do they have that many alternate colors now? I know they have Pink, Purple, Orange, and "nude". What are the other two? Brown and White?
Yep. Those are the other two.

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Carcassonne for 8 Players
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2015, 02:06:15 PM »
Wow. That's a lot of colors. I feel like I need to buy them...just to buy them. Bad reasons, right? I guess until they make available alt colors of Tunnel pieces and Abbey tiles, I won't bother. I want a truly complete set of 6 alt colors without having to re-buy everything. It would also require me purchasing a second set of Little Buildings, I suppose. Ugh. So much stuff...and my game group currently doesn't even exist!


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