Poll

How do you primarily use The Cathedrals?

To attempt and earn bonus points for my City.
9 (56.3%)
To try to deny points to an opponent for their City.
7 (43.8%)
As a throw-away tile not worth the trouble.
0 (0%)
I use it in some other creatively strategic manner (describe below).
0 (0%)
I don't ever play with or don't own Inns & Cathedrals.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: January 02, 2015, 02:23:59 PM

Author Topic: The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16  (Read 4121 times)

Online whaleyland

  • Great Khan
  • Authors
  • Marquis Chevalier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2473
  • Merit: 78
  • Toulouse: Carcassonne's insignificant neighbor.
    • View Profile
    • Derek R. Whaley | Historian & Writer
The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16
« on: December 26, 2014, 02:23:59 PM »
ELEMENT OF THE WEEK: THE CATHEDRALS

Each week, a specific element from an expansion is chosen for deeper discussion. This is an opportunity for you, Carcassonne's biggest English-language fans, to discuss strategies and problems you have encountered through the years regarding specific expansion elements. All forms of critique – from the most joyous to the most scathing – are encouraged.

This week's element is THE CATHEDRALS (from Inns & Cathedrals [Expansion #1]). The concept is nearly exactly that of The Inns in that a City with a Cathedral in it scores one extra point for each tile (or Pennant) in the City. Thus, a City can be worth half again its usual value with the strategic placement of a Cathedral. On the other hand, though, an incomplete City with a Cathedral scores nothing at game end.

The Cathedrals were a part of the most straight-forward expansion released by Hans im Glück for Carcassonne and its mechanics are quite basic. But that doesn't mean the tiles can't be used in strategic ways. Placing a Cathedral in an opponent's City near the end of the game almost guarantees the loss of that City to the player. A well-placed Cathedral at the beginning of the game, on the other hand, could really bring in the bonus points to a player. Thus, there are generally two strategies for using the Cathedrals. Only two are included in the expansion for the obvious reason that the features are very difficult to complete. Often, the tiles end up discarded because of a lack of placement areas or they get relegated to a small, unclaimed City on the fringes of the map. Luck certainly is against the Cathedral, but sometimes the tile is drawn at the perfect time, making for a very happy player. Discuss your relationship with The Cathedrals, as well as your strategies for taking advantage of this element.

Next Week's Topic: The Dragon & The Fairy    :o  :'(

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1375.0

Offline Paul

  • Marquis Chevalier
  • ***
  • Posts: 2430
  • Merit: 85
    • View Profile
    • sydby.com
Re: The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 03:23:21 PM »
In our games these tiles usually shows up very late in the game. By then, it's either I use it for myself if I know I can finish a city, or I place it on another player(s) city to ruin major scoring.

It's also useful if opponent(s) have more followers in a city than you, might as well drag them down with you, with zero points!

 >:D
World record holder for a single game of Carcassonne using 10 007 tiles!

Offline Carcking

  • Global Moderator
  • Duke Chevalier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1853
  • Merit: 31
  • I call Red!
    • View Profile
Re: The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2014, 07:21:11 PM »
I almost always will use this defensively - that is, to mess with another player's city, or even one I'm also in if I don't have majority. But then I have to be sure the city does not get completed.  ;)
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline danisthirty

  • (well, 38 actually)
  • Administrator
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • Posts: 6327
  • Merit: 232
  • "First to 4 points wins?"
    • View Profile
Re: The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2014, 02:21:30 AM »
I think this really varies depending on the game, and also when the two tiles come out. I voted that I prefer to use them to mess up any opposing cities but on more than one occasion recently I've done this and haven't followed it up by ensuring that the city becomes impossible to close! So it's often not a good idea to do this if your opponent also has their builder in the city, or if it's early enough in the game that there are still sufficient tiles for them to complete it.

The trouble with adding a cathedral to a city of your own is that it can be like a red rag to a bull for some people and sometimes it doesn't feel like it's worth the effort if you know that everyone else is going to be doing their best to hinder you at every opportunity. With the end result being that a city that may have been worth a handful of points ends up being worthless.

So, in summary, I think it's often a hard choice but generally I think it's better to play it safe and place it in an awkward position in someone else's city.
Heroically snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since 2018

Offline Nicholas Mystikos

  • Viscount Chevalier
  • ****
  • Posts: 3006
  • Merit: 89
  • The poster formerly known as jungleboy
    • View Profile
    • English in 10 Minutes
Re: The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2014, 03:50:45 AM »
I will go against the tide and say that I use the cathedrals mostly in an 'offensive' way by placing them in my own cities and trying to complete them. This is part of my general outlook of trying to complete my own features first and foremost rather than trying to hinder my opponents' features. Of course, when playing in a competition I sometimes have to adjust this style.

But basically, there is pretty much nothing in the game of Carcassonne that gives me more satisfaction than completing a large cathedral city.

Offline Christopher

  • Count
  • **
  • Posts: 297
  • Merit: 12
  • It's not the years, it's the mileage.
    • View Profile
Re: The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 12:11:00 PM »
I almost always use cathedrals on my own cities. I love completing a cathedral city, it's very satisfying and I enjoy that you can rack up quite a few points this way! I would only consider using a cathedral on someone else's city to hobble them if it came up very late in the game. Imagine trying to use a cathedral against someone and having them finish the city and score loads of points! Devastating!

I very rarely play without Inns and Cathedrals, I consider it fairly integral to the game. I sometimes play with multiple copies!
Look to the north. Keep looking. There's nothing coming from the south.

Offline Nicholas Mystikos

  • Viscount Chevalier
  • ****
  • Posts: 3006
  • Merit: 89
  • The poster formerly known as jungleboy
    • View Profile
    • English in 10 Minutes
Re: The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 12:17:22 PM »
I almost always use cathedrals on my own cities. I love completing a cathedral city, it's very satisfying and I enjoy that you can rack up quite a few points this way!

This is my preferred way of using them too. Whenever I draw one, even if it's fairly late in the game, my first thought is how I can complete and score a cathedral city. Only if I think it will be too hard do I think about adding it to someone else's city to nullify their unfinished city points.

Offline dirk2112

  • Viscount
  • ****
  • Posts: 824
  • Merit: 42
  • Filled with caffeine and hyperbole
    • View Profile
Re: The Cathedrals – Element of the Week #16
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 07:41:53 AM »
Since I can't find the original artwork expansion anywhere, I have played around with this a lot in JCZ.  No matter how hard I have tried, the computer opponents will not let me complete a Cathedral City.  I started to add them to opponent cities and that seems to be the way to go (at least in JCZ).


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via furl Share via linkedin Share via myspace Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via technorati Share via twitter

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
question
The Cathedrals (in Germany) – Element of the Week #54

Started by whaleyland

12 Replies
2151 Views
Last post April 04, 2017, 03:09:25 AM
by Jéré
xx
Castles - Element of the Weak (unofficial Element of the Week)

Started by Gerry

2 Replies
1863 Views
Last post December 29, 2014, 01:37:18 AM
by danisthirty
grin
The Pig – Element of the Week #3

Started by whaleyland

16 Replies
7620 Views
Last post February 23, 2016, 03:06:32 AM
by Christopher
xx
The Festival – Element of the Week #27

Started by whaleyland

21 Replies
7370 Views
Last post March 05, 2016, 05:20:33 AM
by dirk2112
question
The Bridges – Element of the Week #30

Started by whaleyland

5 Replies
3443 Views
Last post February 25, 2016, 10:20:41 AM
by Christopher