Poll

How do you primarily use The Abbey?

To fill in a hole to complete your own feature.
6 (37.5%)
To fill in a hole to complete an opponent's feature.
1 (6.3%)
To fill in a hole for general aesthetics.
0 (0%)
I usually forget to place or don't get an opportunity to place my Abbey.
3 (18.8%)
I use it in some other creatively strategic manner (describe below).
4 (25%)
I don't ever play with or don't own Abbey & Mayor.
2 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: November 07, 2014, 02:17:41 AM

Author Topic: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8  (Read 11638 times)

Offline quevy

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2014, 03:11:06 PM »
is useful but not always possible, create a hole intentionally, near a farmer dangerous opponent and use the abbey to lock the field, I did this in my last game against my cousin.
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Offline Big Guy

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2014, 08:25:18 AM »
I really like the Abbey. Sorry I missed the voting deadline. It's a 'get out of jail free' card for everyone, and it feels fair and balanced. It's saved me more times than I can count, and I love strategizing about the best time to use my Abbey. I can't stand using it early in the game, and around half the time, I save it until end-of-game and try to plan the end-game board so there are a few openings surrounded by 4 tiles, so I can pick which works best for me and worst for my opponents.

I'd like to respectfully disagree slightly with Quevy's point above.

With the exception of end-game, I think it's almost always possible to create holes in the game board surrounded by 4 tiles.
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Offline Carcking

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 06:02:57 PM »
Whenever possible I try to hold my Abbey until my opponent plays his/hers. It seems to give me a hand up - at least in perception - as I can then use it strategically to complete a key feature, or block a key farm or some such.

My Abbey in the match against MrNumbers turned out to be a key play - you might say the game winner. I got two of MrNumbers followers trapped - one on a cloister, one on a city with some trade goods that ownership of would determine the winner of the trade good war (can't quite remember but his Builder might have been in there too). I was able to create a block with a hole that could not be filled with the available tiles. Then bided my time till the very end. It was my second to last play as I did not want to play it early and give MrNumbers his followers back with any time to deply them. I played my Abbey tile and completed his city, but won the trade goods. That allowed me to tie him in Barrels and win Ribbon outright ( I already had the Wheat won). If MrNumbers had still had his Abbey it would not have been possible to develop this play.
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline jungleboy

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2014, 10:13:22 PM »
Whenever possible I try to hold my Abbey until my opponent plays his/hers. It seems to give me a hand up - at least in perception - as I can then use it strategically to complete a key feature, or block a key farm or some such.

My Abbey in the match against MrNumbers turned out to be a key play - you might say the game winner. I got two of MrNumbers followers trapped - one on a cloister, one on a city with some trade goods that ownership of would determine the winner of the trade good war (can't quite remember but his Builder might have been in there too). I was able to create a block with a hole that could not be filled with the available tiles. Then bided my time till the very end. It was my second to last play as I did not want to play it early and give MrNumbers his followers back with any time to deply them. I played my Abbey tile and completed his city, but won the trade goods. That allowed me to tie him in Barrels and win Ribbon outright ( I already had the Wheat won). If MrNumbers had still had his Abbey it would not have been possible to develop this play.

That's a world champion move right there!  :(y)

Offline Paul

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2014, 03:26:33 AM »
Whenever possible I try to hold my Abbey until my opponent plays his/hers. It seems to give me a hand up - at least in perception - as I can then use it strategically to complete a key feature, or block a key farm or some such.

My Abbey in the match against MrNumbers turned out to be a key play - you might say the game winner. I got two of MrNumbers followers trapped - one on a cloister, one on a city with some trade goods that ownership of would determine the winner of the trade good war (can't quite remember but his Builder might have been in there too). I was able to create a block with a hole that could not be filled with the available tiles. Then bided my time till the very end. It was my second to last play as I did not want to play it early and give MrNumbers his followers back with any time to deply them. I played my Abbey tile and completed his city, but won the trade goods. That allowed me to tie him in Barrels and win Ribbon outright ( I already had the Wheat won). If MrNumbers had still had his Abbey it would not have been possible to develop this play.

That's a world champion move right there!  :(y)

This strategic move was shown on our last game session (posted on this forum). It can also do a premature block, by waving it in front of the player trying to lay a tile, forcing him to do another move.
  For me, in that last game session, well I was on the other end.  :@ Because opponents had their abbey I could not place a certain tile to join my two farmers taking over the huge farm field, for then he would place the abbey where I need to get a cloister placed (without roads) rendeing my followers almost completely useless!
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Offline Christopher

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2016, 01:14:52 AM »
Abbeys are a nice addition, I think. As Big Guy said, it's a handy move to pull if you're stuck trying to complete a feature. I tend to save it for that purpose, as it's usually relatively easy to fill the other spaces then play the abbey to free your trapped follower. I would only use it to block someone else from joining a city if that city were particularly valuable.

If I haven't used it during the game, I'll throw it down as an incomplete cloister for five points as the tiles start to run out. I don't tend to play it just for the sake of playing it, though. Often I'll finish a game without having used the abbey. It's there for emergencies, as I see it!

Very often we'll give each play an abbey even if not playing with Abbeys and Mayors. Not sure how people see this, I suppose it could be considered not CAR acceptable, but we tend to view each feature as individual and use what we fancy. Same goes for builders, pigs, and shepherds, we'll often have those even if not using the tiles from the expansion they came from.
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Offline Hounk

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2016, 03:17:34 AM »
I also think, the Abbey is a very versatile tile, and there is no "preferable" way to use it. In some games, when I run low on meeple, I try to use it to get one or preferable more back, in many I find it very useful for blocking knights (especially sneaky mayors in city segments without pennants) or farmers. Whenever there is no occasion, I find particular use for it, I try to preserve it for the end game as a "bonus turn" after last regular tile. But this is of course only reasonable, if I can be sure, I have a monk to deploy and there are enough holes left in the end, to be able to lay the abbey. It is sometimes also to take into account, if you have already placed your abbey, and the opponent not, to close a hole with a regular tile, just to deny the option to place the abbey. Or to place a tile in the endgame just to creating a new hole, if you need it for your own end-game-abbey.

Offline Christopher

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2016, 04:19:08 AM »
Whenever there is no occasion, I find particular use for it, I try to preserve it for the end game as a "bonus turn" after last regular tile.

We don't allow this when we play. We go very strict on the rules which (somewhere) state that the game ends when the last tile is drawn. Same goes for halflings and castles. Any tiles the players have left over are not allowed to be used, they are just discarded. I find this prevents players from holding on to their tiles in order to get a 'bonus go' at the end. Everyone gets the same number of tiles (excluding builder use, of course).
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 04:21:07 AM by Christopher »

Offline Hounk

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2016, 04:35:04 AM »
The HiG rule states distinguishably, that Abbeys can be placed after last tile, while Halflings can't. With castles it is obvious, they can be placed, when completing a "football city" anyway, so are related to that moment of the game and can't be delayed in game anyway.

Of course, you can house rule it, like you want, but I see a purpose for the difference in the official rules: with your Abbey, you take a risk in delaying it till after last tile. Most of the time, it might happen, that all legal spots are filled up by other players. For a Halfling, you would always find a spot, so that's probably the purpose, they ruled that out.

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2016, 04:50:39 AM »
The HiG rule states distinguishably, that Abbeys can be placed after last tile, while Halflings can't.
Wanted to write the same. Quote from CAR 7.4, p.58:
Quote
If one or more players have not placed their Abbey when the last landscape tile is drawn and placed, they may still do so, in clockwise order starting from the left of the person who placed the last tile, as long as it is in accordance with the rules. The game is then over.
"I never lose. Either I win or I learn." (Nelson Mandela)

Offline Christopher

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2016, 06:11:59 AM »
The HiG rule states distinguishably, that Abbeys can be placed after last tile, while Halflings can't.
Wanted to write the same. Quote from CAR 7.4, p.58:
Quote
If one or more players have not placed their Abbey when the last landscape tile is drawn and placed, they may still do so, in clockwise order starting from the left of the person who placed the last tile, as long as it is in accordance with the rules. The game is then over.

Ooh, interesting! I didn't know that. It's been so long since I bothered to read the rules for simple expansions, most of the time I'm having to read up on complicated expansions! Thank you both!

Offline danisthirty

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Re: The Abbeys - Element of the Week #8
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2016, 05:21:42 AM »
Having an Abbey in hand feels like quite a big advantage (especially if my opponent has already placed theirs) so I try to keep mine back for as long as possible. If the perfect opportunity to use it arises then I’ll place it with no regrets, but more often than not I’ve still got mine after the last of the tiles from the bag have gone down. If this happens it’s important to make sure that there’s somewhere it can be placed, otherwise you’ll lose out on the few points that placing a final monk might get you (assuming you have a meeple in hand with which to claim them).

Although it changes depending on how many players are in a game, a big part of my strategy in head-to-head games is about making holes that can’t be filled in order to trap my opponent’s meeples. So, Abbeys can be really disruptive in that respect as they allow my opponent to easily undo all of my hard work and get their meeples back. If you want to make sure something remains incomplete, Abbeys mean you have to do so in two separate places! However, the fact that you need all 4 of the orthogonally adjacent tiles to be in place before an Abbey can be placed adds further interest as there are usually options to make life hard for your opponent just to get that fourth tile down before they’ve even made a possible location for their Abbey.

The same thing goes for if you’re trying to glom onto an opponent’s feature; if they start building around where you need to place the tile that merges your two features then they’re probably planning on using their Abbey to cut you out once all 4 tiles around the potential join have been filled. You can do your best to hinder them in this respect, but it’s always a race against time in terms of who draws what they need first!


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