Poll

How do you primarily use The Cult?

To rival opponents' cloisters.
4 (22.2%)
As normal cloisters (i.e., I avoid rivalries).
13 (72.2%)
I use it in some other creatively strategic manner (describe below).
0 (0%)
I don't ever play with The Cult.
1 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: November 21, 2014, 02:03:29 AM

Author Topic: The Cult – Element of the Week #10  (Read 8959 times)

Offline whaleyland

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The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« on: November 14, 2014, 02:03:29 AM »
ELEMENT OF THE WEEK: THE CULT

Each week, a specific element from an expansion is chosen for deeper discussion. This is an opportunity for you, Carcassonne's biggest English-language fans, to discuss strategies and problems you have encountered through the years regarding specific expansion elements. All forms of critique – from the most joyous to the most scathing – are encouraged.

This week's element is THE CULT (from Count, King & Cult [Expansion #2]; Cult, Siege & Creativity; or Spielbox Magazine). This 5-6 tile expansion (depending on your version) added the first real cloister-oriented feature to the game. The concept is somewhat simple: a Cult placed beside a Cloister (or Abbey) begins a rivalry where only one player will win. Whichever feature is completed first (surrounded on all eight sides) gets the 9 points, while the other player gets zilch. Nada. Nothing. Luckily, they do get their Monk/Heretic back at least. If a Cult is not placed near a Cloister, it is treated like a Cloister. Complicated rules about placing x number of Cloisters beside x number of Cults make this a bit more confusing of an expansion that it really needs to be, but at its core, it is a rather straightforward idea.

That being said, it can be quite easy or quite difficult to start a rivalry under the conditions imposed by this expansion. One of the features almost always has an advantage since it was placed first and the other has an uphill battle. Many times, both features seem to finish at the same time, nullifying the conflict entirely. But those victories. Oh, those victories can feel worth it even if it is only over nine points. The Cult began a trend with Hans im Glück releasing more cloister-themed elements in future expansions. But this, the first one, still has a special place. Discuss your relationship with The Cult, as well as your strategies for taking advantage of this element.

Next Week's Topic: The Wagons   C:-)

Linkback: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1261.0

Offline kettlefish

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 02:15:40 AM »
I've played with the cult only a few times, mostly I forgot to fight against the cloisters...

I think I used the cult more like normal cloisters.


Offline SRBO

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2014, 02:34:56 AM »
Most of the time when you play them to fight against other cloisters, the other cloisters are surrounded by more tiles.. so usualy just like a normal cloister.

Offline danisthirty

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2014, 04:09:33 AM »
I don’t really use these much, although they have been included in online games from time to time. If I do use them, it’s usually just in the same way as a cloister without setting up any challenges. Additionally, the configuration of features on these tiles make them quite useful for filling holes or joining adjacent farms.

Since it’s often very easy to trap meeples on cloisters, and since it’s also possible to lay down a challenge against yourself, I wonder if these could be used as a way of recovering trapped meeples? All you’d have to do is place the cult place adjacent to the cloister with the trapped meeple so that the challenge can be made, then complete the cult place for 9 points and get both meeples back (but no points for the incomplete cloister). I’ve never tried this but it seems like an interesting idea (provided of course that you don't end up trapping both meeples from the same missing tile)...
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Offline Carcking

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2014, 06:33:09 AM »
...and since it’s also possible to lay down a challenge against yourself...

I did not know this, Dan. Or at least never considered it. Is it true that you can challenge yourself? Is it in the CAR? That would be a fun accomplishment in any case - to recover a trapped meeple  :D

I do use them to challenge Cloisters though...just to experience the spirit of the expansion. Win or lose it creates some tense game play.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 06:34:57 AM by Carcking »
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Offline danisthirty

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 06:43:57 AM »
...and since it’s also possible to lay down a challenge against yourself...

I did not know this, Dan. Or at least never considered it. Is it true that you can challenge yourself? Is it in the CAR? That would be a fun accomplishment in any case - to recover a trapped meeple  :D

The version on the CAR I have with me at the moment is a few versions behind. But it's fairly clearly stated that this is allowed, even though it seems a little weird.

Yes indeed, regardless of the fact that you got your meeple back, I'd be very proud of myself simply for rescuing him so inventively!

I do use them to challenge Cloisters though...just to experience the spirit of the expansion. Win or lose it creates some tense game play.

Sometimes the lure to use things as they were intended and get the full experience is more effort than it's worth but I totally know where you're coming from and usually try to do the same!  :)

Offline Paul

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2014, 09:14:43 AM »
megaCart or not, can't say I've had much success conquring another cloister. Then again, I only ever used this feature in TWO games.

First game I believe I tried to conquer one cloister and gave up after it failed. I hope to introduce this later on in the games because it's an easy feature to implement. There's just so much else that take precedence, like The Dragon, så the new player(s) don't get scared off due to all the rules.
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Offline aenima

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2014, 01:27:15 PM »
the same for me... I played few times with Cult... Is difficoult to make a good and equilibrate challenge and there are too many tiles with cloister rules in play!
but... in this days I made a fan expansion that can involve also the Cult! I create this expansion thinking at the too many "church thinks" and... well, is a "church think" also this expansion but is really evil! I tested it this afternoon and the play was an hecatomb! ihih  >:D
I hope to translate it in english and put in the download section in this days...

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2014, 01:47:24 PM »
I think there also should be an expansion with the moslem invasion - they destroy all cloisters then.

Offline Tacita

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2014, 01:58:31 PM »
I can not be arsed to check the rules right now, but is there not a limit to how many cult places/cloisters that can border eachother? If so, you could use them as fairly powerful blockers.
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Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2014, 02:01:10 PM »
I can not be arsed to check the rules right now, but is there not a limit to how many cult places/cloisters that can border eachother? If so, you could use them as fairly powerful blockers.
I am pretty sure there is a limit, but I could be wrong. I can't check right now, though.

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 02:20:07 PM »
I heard there was a rule on  not placing cloisters besides each others in the original rules before HiG made the 1st edition. Since then it is allowed to place as many cloisters together as you want.

Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2014, 01:47:55 AM »
Quote from: CAR 7.2 Page 83
However, a shrine may not be placed in such a way that it adjoins several
cloisters.261 Similarly, a cloister may not be placed so that it neighbors several shrines.262, 263
––––
261  In other words, a shrine cannot adjoin more than one cloister, and vice versa.
262  Question: Can I place a shrine in such a way that it forces a cloister to neighbor several shrines? What effect does that have? Answer: It leads to enormous problems when multiple cloisters and shrines neighbor each other. [In other words, no, you can’t place a shrine in that way—ed.]
263  The rules that restrict the placement of cloisters next to already placed shrines also restrict the placement of abbeys.

Offline whaleyland

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2014, 01:53:54 AM »
I'm also going to say that I disagree with obervet and mjharper's choice to call this expansion element "Shrines and Heretics". I think the intention is very clearly to portray these as heretical, pagan, and/or heathen cult centers. "Places of worship" to be sure, but much more in the vein of a pagan temple than a simple heretical sect. That's what we have the Cathars for, they were a quasi-heretical sect of Christianity. I see no Christian overtones with the Cult. I don't think the tiles need to be called anything but Cults or Cult tiles and the whole argument against that, begun by Rio Grande when they released their own version, is ridiculous. I'm not sure what Z-Man calls it, but I am arguing for simply "Cults". Certainly not "shrines".

Offline obervet

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Re: The Cult – Element of the Week #10
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 10:59:33 AM »
I'm also going to say that I disagree with obervet and mjharper's choice to call this expansion element "Shrines and Heretics". I think the intention is very clearly to portray these as heretical, pagan, and/or heathen cult centers. "Places of worship" to be sure, but much more in the vein of a pagan temple than a simple heretical sect. That's what we have the Cathars for, they were a quasi-heretical sect of Christianity. I see no Christian overtones with the Cult. I don't think the tiles need to be called anything but Cults or Cult tiles and the whole argument against that, begun by Rio Grande when they released their own version, is ridiculous. I'm not sure what Z-Man calls it, but I am arguing for simply "Cults". Certainly not "shrines".

I'm not sure if Matt Harper had a specific reason for naming/translating the expansion as he did -- I don't have immediate access to the CAR materials right now. However, a shrine is not specific to Christianity; any religion can have shrines to its deity/deities, so a pagan shrine would still work. And I think of a cult more as a group of people, not a building, so to me calling the building a shrine makes more sense than calling it a "cult" and is less cumbersome than "cult place."
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 11:01:45 AM by obervet »


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