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Messages - Meepledrone

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1
Anything Else / Re: I love the local store...
« on: Today at 12:00:04 AM »
Ha ha ha! You're impossible!  ;)

2
Anything Else / Re: I love the local store...
« on: September 11, 2019, 01:12:34 PM »
If so, you only play mega Carcassonne games.

No time to separate tiles by expansion, right?

3
Hola Carca_Maker!

Finalmente liberaste tu expansión de la joyas...

Menuda lectura. Le he echado un ojo rápido y necesito revisar los otros documentos ya que están todos interrelacionados.

Me alegro de que contar los casos de los árboles te sirviera de ayuda. Ahora ya podemos ver para qué lo querías.

Espero tener feedback pronto para ti. Desde luego que necesito un buen rato de tranquilidad para poder darle una buena lectura.

Un saludo!

4
Quizzes, Puzzles and Challenges / Re: TREES question for my next variant.
« on: September 11, 2019, 12:45:40 PM »
Hi Carca_Maker,

All your documents require a thorough reading... And they are interconnected...

I need to revisit them all. Hope to give some additional feedback after digesting it all.  :o

Cheers!  :D

5
Anything Else / Re: I love the local store...
« on: September 11, 2019, 12:43:52 PM »
You draw tiles directly from the bags, right?

6
General / Re: Any new expansions coming?
« on: September 11, 2019, 12:42:05 PM »
The two additional colors  :white-meeple: :neutral-meeple: should have been available in mid-August but HiG has delayed their availability. So we are all still waiting.  :(

7
Official Rules / Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« on: September 11, 2019, 12:39:04 PM »
Hi Vital Pluymers,

Thank you for participating.

One thing: German Cathedrals evaluate each road ending at the cathedral separately so inns do not affect all the branches as a whole. Thus each road connected to a German Cathedral is evaluated with its inn(s) separately.

Also sharp eyes: you spotted the yellow meeple scoring the circus  ;D

+1 merit from me.

Cheers!

8
Official Rules / Re: Order of play in french
« on: September 05, 2019, 02:29:47 PM »
Hi,

I had my Mega Carcassonne game with every major, mini and promo expansions this weekend and I didn't get any new questions (we just didn't play the pest to save some time, and still we couldn't finish every tiles after 8 hours). I guess we already solved a lot of situations with our discussions here.

Hi corinthiens13,

I was looking forward to hearing from you about this epic game.

Do you have some pictures you could share and wirite a short report on the game? That would be awesome.

For the castles, in my french rules (that have been updated to ver 3.9.2), I decided to keep the
 - Points as if the Lord owned the feature (ignoring other meeple's bonuses)
 - + Points linked to the Lord himself considering the 6 adjacent tiles (Leipzig, fairy and circus master)
As I still think this way is easier to understand and the official rules doesn't contradicts this.

This can be valid an approach for castles scoring. In the end you should end up with the same result.

What Markets of Leipzig bonuses are you considering for the castle lord?

But meepledrone, I agree your way of scoring castles do also fits the official rules  ;)

Cheers !

It is based on the steps by the Order of Play. Is several fiefs overlap and several features are involved it would be the way to decide which feature scores the most points to honor the castle lord(s).

Did you have time to a look to the examples 4A-4D?

Cheers!

9
Official Rules / Re: Scoring quiz with roads (summer tutti frutti)
« on: September 03, 2019, 02:54:11 PM »
Hi Windekind!

Sorry for taking so long to reply.

+1 merit from me for your comprehensive response.


DaFees made several good points to take into consideration.

I will add some considerations for your review:
- The road on G1 is 4 tiles long not 5 tiles long. Tunnel entrances on tile G2 are not counted separately - The tile is counted once. 
- An incomplete road with an Inn can score points at the end of the game thanks to Little Buildings.
- The witch on E3 is obscuring the road segment connected to the German castle, so the big road has 2 German castles.
- Archbishops score 2 points per tile on connected roads with an Inn.
- The features on the watchtower tile are also considered for the watchtower scoring.

Cheers!

10
Official Rules / Re: Abbott as regular meeple?
« on: September 01, 2019, 10:49:15 PM »
Hi HeyJude01,

Congrats for your first post.  :)

The abbot can only be placed on monastic buildings (monasteries, shrines, abbeys,...) and gardens. Check the following WICA page for more details.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#2._Placing_a_Meeple_OR_the_Abbot

And as you commented, you can find yourself in a game with no other meeple left in your supply but the abbot and it is a bit frustrating due to its placement limitations.

Also bear in mind it can stay in a monastery or garden as long as you want so it can be scored early and cannot be trapped as other meeples. This means it can be used as a "quick" scoring figure if you want.

So when playing with the abbot you have to take all this into account and make the most of it.

Cheers!

11
Official Rules / Re: Order of play in french
« on: September 01, 2019, 12:28:22 AM »
Hi Meepledrone

Both You and corinthiens13 get the same answer,so it is not a good example.
My suggestion is make a new example with fairy,leipzig,darm church. Maybe you will find your approach is complex.

My opinion is close to corinthiens13.
The castle score is as if you are the owner of the city.Don’t consider any score from the follower in this city(including fairy,leipzig,darm church).Only if you have follower in leipzig,you can get the bonus.

Hi yezhenhan,

The example corinthiens13 and I were commenting in our previous posts was a simplification of Example 4C with only one feature (the city) so the result didn't leave too much room to speculation.

The four examples above play with various subtleties worth exploring. Besides getting the right result, the intention is to understand what the mental process is in order to get to the result when there are several features (a city and up to two roads, in this case) and several castles involved.

A very interesting case is the city with the mayor scoring 0 points but a nearby castle scores the full points (the one commented above), where you can see how the feature points are decoupled from the points meeples can score for a player.

This is why I was asking about the relationship of the castles and their fiefs, the points tally for each feature, and about what meeple gets the ints points from. IMHO the result is not so interesting as the mental process in this case.

Castles score full points calculated (tallied) for a feature completed in their fief (except when the castle lord is a mayor.) Another matter explored above is how castle "chain reaction" works and how you can compute the highest score in tricky cases if you want to make the most of it as a castle owner.

Hope this clarifies the intention of the examples above.

Cheers!

12
Official Rules / Re: Order of play in french
« on: August 31, 2019, 03:18:18 PM »
Hi corinthiens13,

Hi,

I don't have time to answer all those quizz now, but here's what I'm not sure for example 4C, if one of the red tunnel tokens was missing and so the city is the only completed feature:
- Blue mayor gets 0 points as he doesn't own the structure (or do he still get 3 mage points?)
- Yellow mayor gets 0 points
- Red ringmaster gets core city points (6 for the city, 3 for the mage, 1 for the little building on a city tile)

Correct ?

- The city tallies 6 points (core city scoring) + 3 points for the Mage + 1 point for the Little Building = 10 points.
- The blue mayor in this city of 10 points will score 0 points as the city has no pennants.
- This city would trigger the scoring of the castle with the ringmaster, so the castle will be eligible to score 10 points if the meeple in it can score them. The ringmaster can score those 10 points for sure.
- The city would also trigger the scoring of the castle with the yellow mayor, so the castle will be eligible to score 10 points but the yellow mayor won't be able to score any points as the castle has no pennants. So the yellow ringmaster would score 0 points.

Assuming that one red tunnel token in missing in Example 4C, no road will be completed and no additional castle scoring will happen. So this scenario would end right there.

So, as you've seen above, if you think in two steps: (i) points tally and (ii) points scoring, everything looks simpler. A completed feature "always" tally points. The issue is who can score them. This approach will help you solve scenarios likes the ones presented above with mayors and castles that can make things look more complicated than they really are.

The examples above show some cases with overlapping and non-overapping fiefs with some completed roads shared to help us explore different scenarios. I don't want to spoil the fun for you.

Hope these hints help you enjoy the beauty of the whole scoring process in these scenarios.  ;)

Cheers!

13
Official Rules / Re: Order of play in french
« on: August 31, 2019, 01:10:46 PM »
NOTE: There is a mistake in the illustrations and I have to change the road with the yellow tunnel so it can be completed at the same as city in examples 4B and 4D. I'm currently travelling. I'll update the illustrations as soon as I arrive home tonight. Sorry for the inconvenience.

EDIT: Previous two posts were updated as required.

14
Official Rules / Re: Order of play in french
« on: August 31, 2019, 07:42:50 AM »
Hi again,

Check the following additional double example (quadruple quiz now ;) ) below. The only difference is the yellow tunnel token on A1. Several questions pop up in my mind:
* What do you think it is happening here? What happens with the castle fiefs and the roads with tunnels? Which ones share the same scoring and why?
* There are plenty of mayors and some meeples: how many points does each completed feature tally and how many points do the meeples associated to them score: city, roads, castles,...? Who gets the points from each feature?

Hope you like this additional exercise.  ;D

Cheers!

15
Official Rules / Re: Order of play in french
« on: August 31, 2019, 05:08:35 AM »
Hi corinthiens13!

Bear also in mind that Fruit actions take place during the 2. Placing a Meeple phase while the placement of a meeple on the castle happens during the 3. Scoring phase. Thus the "timing" is not right even if you build the castle on the same tile as the meeple. In any case you would perform the Fruit action after placing the tile but before you place the castle and the meeple on it.

Agreed !


 :(y)

The rules do not define adjacency in these terms but the CAR does (check CAR v7.4, page 282):

...

I agree with you that the reasonable way to score a ringmaster on a castle is to take into account any meeple placed in the castle fief. My only consideration here is that this being a special case worth mentioning, neither the Expansion 8 rules nor the Expansion 10 rules dedicate a single sentence to this relevant case. If so, I suspect that HiG is not considering this interaction.

I see this case in a similar way to the placement of a meeple on an unoccupied castle via a magic portal. It could be a reasonable extension of the rules (you may use the magic portal to claim an unoccupied uncompleted feature on a tile placed on this turn or any previous one - unless the feature is completed by the placement of the magic portal tile) but no rule or official clarification allows players to place a meeple on an unoccupied castle through a magic portal. So this possibility is ruled out.

Thus, unless HiG clarifies the interaction, my interpretation is that ringmasters placed in castles do not get ringmaster points as a trade off for becoming a castle lord, although I see more than reasonable the adaptation of the scoring from 9-tile area to the 6-tile fief.

I have searched the rules, CarcC and CarcF for a confirmation or denial of the ringmaster scoring with the ringmaster placed in a castle to no avail. If anyone can shed some light on this case. I would appreciate it.

I didn't see the CAR definition of "adjacent", but I think CAR exploits this issue (does a castle have adjacent tiles) in the most logical way, as the official rules doesn't clarify that (I also couldn't find anything in the official rules.

In my French rules, I'll keep this rules, at least until we have any official clarification:
  • A meeple on a castle isn't on a tile, so any actions affecting a specific tile doesn't affect the castle (and so it's not possible to place a meeple on a castle using magic portals or fliers too)
  • The 6 tiles around the castle are considered adjacent to the castle
This explains why a circus triggers a castle's scoring, and this also imply a ringmaster on a castle can get his bonus when scoring the castle. Plus, considering this rule already clarifies future questions with other expansion as this gives a base rule.

The circus is an exceptional case: it triggers castle scoring but it is not a feature a player may claim and complete. The scoring trigger is the placement of another circus tile not the completion of any feature by the players.

On the other hand, acrobat pyramids, a figure-based feature requiring a greater effort from players to achieve its completion, is ignored by castles. They are treated in a similar way to watchtowers and ringmasters bonuses, in this case.

All in all:
* Red scores X points (core feature score + road bonus from Leipzig)
* Blue scores X points the same points as Red for the road. Blue itself is not present on the road so no bonus points from Leipzig are possible.

------

My recommendation is to keep castle scoring as simple as possible:
1. Tally the points for the feature triggering the castle scoring.
    - If several features and/or meeples are involved, pick the highest score for the feature/meeple combination.
2. Score the points for all the players with majority on the feature picked
    - Any bonuses preceding the feature scoring should be performed first (watchtowers, Gingerbread Man,...) - These points do not affect castles
    - Any bonuses after the feature scoring should be performed last (ringmaster scoring,...) - These points do not affect castles
3. Score the points foe the castle(s) involved.
    - Any bonuses affecting castle lords will be taken into consideration (Fairy)
4. Proceed with the scoring of any other feature involved.

This clarifies things a bit. So as we consider the castle meeple is not present on the scored structure (reason why he doesn't get wainwright points for his own meeple in that quarter), then the castle meeple also can't get coiners points for his own meeple on that quarter, as the castle meeple is not present on the city. Only Leipzig bonus for monasteries can be applied to the castle lord for his own meeple on the bookbinders quarter.

Correct ?

Correct. Leipzig bonuses require the presence of player's meeples on the feature (and even the majority in some cases) except for monasteries.

But one thing remains unclear with this order of castle's scoring: Why can't a mayor on a castle take points from roads, monasteries, city without pennants, if he's simply scoring as much points as the player having the most points on the structure, and he's also not considered as present on the structure itself ?

Cheers !

As per the rules, there is a decoupling between the points tallied by a feature and the points scored by a player through its meeples. Mayors can only score points if placed on a feature with pennants even if the feature tallies points.

Check the following double example (double quiz  ;) ) below. The only difference is the yellow tunnel token on A1. Several questions pop up in my mind:
* What do you think it is happening here? What happens with the castle fiefs and the roads with tunnels? Which ones share the same scoring and why?
* There are plenty of mayors and some meeples: how many points does each completed feature tally and how many points do the meeples associated to them score: city, roads, castles,...? Who gets the points from each feature?

Hope you like this exercise.  ;D

Cheers!


EDIT: Example updated

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