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Official Rules / Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Last post by Meepledrone on Today at 09:41:31 AM »
Yes that is right. I personally don't like C2 wagon rules at all. I get that they are easier to understand, but it can severely hinder wagon's reach and thematically it doesn't make as much sense.

I also like the C1 rules better, but all the limitations about new features ending a road a wagon could not cross were a bit awkward... Why could't a wagon cross a fair (Exp. 7) or an bazaar (Exp. 8) or a circus/acrobat space (Ex. 10) or...?

Here you can find a topic I created covering the C1 rules and a FAQ from 2014 that contradicts partially the clarifications provided in 2013  :o

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4725.0
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Official Rules / Moving the wagon in C1 and C2...
« Last post by Meepledrone on Today at 09:39:27 AM »
If you come from the classical edition (C1 for short), you may probably know that the new edition (C2 for short) modified the rules for the wagon.

The C1 rules indicated that the wagon could move from a completed feature to an adjacent one but didn't specify what "adjacent" meant for them.

The definition of "adjacent" was painstakingly clarified by Kettlefish through a number of conversations with Hig back in 2013, that can be found here:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=214.0

Here you can find a summary of the clarified rules for C1 (link to WICA):
* Adjacency: The wagon could only move to an unoccupied, incomplete feature connected by a road or sharing a surface/edge/wall:
  o Cases allowed:
    - Road to road through a crossing
    - Road to any claimable feature and vice versa: city (through a gate), monastery (or equivalent feature such as an abbey), etc.
    - A city to an adjacent abbey and vice versa
    - A city to a monastery within and vice versa
  o Cases not allowed:
    - Two cities with touching walls or tips on the same or on different tiles.
    - Two cities connected by "small roads" where meeples cannot be placed.
    - Two cities crossing via bridges but no connected via roads.
    - Two roads separated by a feature (any area on a tile that can be claimed by a meeple or that triggers a function)
    - A road touching a city wall with no gate
    - A road running through a city via a tunnel or passing over via a bridge
* Placement: the wagon could be placed on any tile of the chosen unoccupied, incomplete feature.

Because of these limitations HiG decided to change the definition of "adjacent" for the wagon in C2, so now the wagon can move to any unoccupied incomplete feature on the same tile or an adjacent one.

So the thematic coherence that wagons followed roads to move from feature to feature is gone in C2. It was cool in my opinion and the addition of those many limitations is disconnected packets of information made them difficult to trace.

This said, a few days ago, I was revisiting the archived HiG pages in web.archive.org and came across this Exp. 5 FAQ archived between 2014 and 2017...

http://web.archive.org/web/20170728123659/http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/carcassonne/erweiterungen/abtei-und-buergermeister/

Quote
Wohin darf der Wagen?/ Was ist ein angrenzendes Gebiet?

Der Wagen darf in ein angrenzendes Gebiet.
Ein angrenzendes Gebiet ist ein Gebiet (Straße, Stadt, Kloster) welches visuell an ein anderes Gebiet angrenzt.
Dies beinhaltet unter anderem Straßen, die Stadtmauern berühren, Brücken, die andere Gebiete überlagern und Städte, deren Stadtmauern sich berühren.

...that means the following in English...

Quote
Where can the wagon go?/ What is an adjacent area?

The wagon is allowed to move to an adjacent feature.
An adjacent feature is a feature (road, city, cloister/monastery) which is visually adjacent to another feature.
This includes, but is not limited to, roads that touch city walls, bridges that span over other features areas and cities whose walls touch each other.

Look at the parts in red. What the heck...?!? What happened here? Are the automatic translators I'm using failing miserably?

This seems a tweaked version of the C1 clarifications in 2014. Some points get closer to C2: They allow you to jump between cities touching their walls or between features overlapping due to a bridge... Was this the original intent by HiG? Is this an afterthought?

After this finding, I happened to stumble upon a couple of posts in threads from 2017 mentioning this same FAQ but the discussion focused on other aspects of the rules changes, therefore omitting the red part and its implications for C1...

* CarcF (2/2017): https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=292&t=3662#p46509

* CarcC (5/2017): http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3321.msg49363#msg49363

Any thoughts?
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Official Rules / Question about Bogatyr tile (Russian Promo)
« Last post by tp10053 on Today at 09:28:14 AM »
Another russian question, this time about Choice of Bogatyr: Is the choice of Bogatyr (the stone tablet terminating the road) considered a special feature? By extension, can a wagon drive through it? It doesn't have any effect on its own, nor can it be claimed, but it has a name and it blocks the road.
This is another question I need answered for my secret project ( 8)) and haven't seen an answer to anywher else.

Feel free to make this a separate topic if needed.
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The Marketplace / Re: Base game original art - unusual score track
« Last post by tp10053 on Today at 07:32:37 AM »
I am no one as well  :orange-meeple:
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Do we know it will have new art? Same with H&G.
Also, if H&G is rereleased, do you think it will get any expansions? It sure deserves them - it was the first spin-off  :D
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Since the fairy is placed next to a meeple, it should move into the castle along with it. The fact that fairy is usually on a discrete tile is merely a consequence of the "fairy friend" being on that tile, so if "fairy friend" happens to be not on specific tile, fairy should be as well. I don't think it should be forcibly separated from its meeple just because it moved, that would waste your action of lacing the fairy i the first place.

More interesting follow up question would then be, does fairy now protect both tiles? I think the answer can be reverse engineered from the Plague (of all things >:D) which abides by the same rules as the Dragon, (only affects discrete tiles) but can affect multiple tiles at once.
If we look at features that are located on multiple tiles (castle, school, Carcassonne), even if you swarm all of the tiles that feature is situated on, the plague still does not affect it. Therefore, inversely, a fairy located on "multiple tiles" should not protect them either.

So the ansewer should be that the fairy will be moved into the castle along with its meeple, but it will not protect any tiles. :white-meeple:
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Official Rules / Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Last post by tp10053 on Today at 07:03:05 AM »
Yes that is right. I personally don't like C2 wagon rules at all. I get that they are easier to understand, but it can severely hinder wagon's reach and thematically it doesn't make as much sense.
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The Marketplace / Re: Base game original art - unusual score track
« Last post by Halfling on Today at 04:07:59 AM »
Hello no one.
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This is a interesting interaction! It’s a tough scenario because there are arguments either way. I’d look at each of the three fairy’s benefits in turn

He he he!  >:D

For the purpose of the bonus 1 point or the bonus 3, it makes no difference which of 4a or 4b you use does it not? Am I correct in saying that, even though the fairy protects other meeple on a tile, the bonus points are only scored by the meeple it is “assigned” to? (With the exception of the bonus 1!point for acrobats?). So whether or not it is moved is irrelevant here.

There is a slight difference between 4a and 4b in this regard as I commented earlier:

The fairy would provide points to the meeple it is assigned to.

The previous two options work differently in this case:
4a. If the fairy stays on the tile, it would be "detached" from the the meeple in the castle, so no bonus points for the :orange-meeple: meeple.
4b. If the fairy moves along with the meeple into the castle, the :orange-meeple: meeple would get the bonus points as usual when scoring the castle.

EDIT: Added explicit reference to the given example.

So, if the fairy stays on the tile, the assignment is released and  :orange-meeple: will not receive any fairy bonus points unless the fairy is re-assigned to the meeple and moved to the castle.

Protection from the dragon is where it gets interesting I suppose... the meeple in the castle is already protected from the dragon by dint of it being in the castle. However does the fairy being “in” the castle prevent the dragon from entering either of the two tiles involved? (E.g. to protect a phantom or wagon or other figure placed on another feature by portal or flier). Thematically I suppose the answer to this would be no. (The fairy is assigned to the follower, who then becomes a lord/ lady and it follow them there. The dragon cannot penetrate the castle walls but equally the fairy’s magic cannot either?).

The protection works as follows:
* 4a. The fairy would protect the tile where it stays from the dragon except the castle portion. The castle is protected by itself, since it is not located on a particular tile.
* 4b. The fairy protection is removed from the tile. Both tiles overlapped by the castle are unprotected from the dragon. The protected are is now limited to the castle, where it is actually not needed, as the castle it protected from the dragon by definition.

I’d lean towards the fairy moving with the lord in the scenario you describe as that’s where it would be if you’d assigned the fairy after placing your castle?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good! Didn't you participate in the poll?
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The Marketplace / Re: Base game original art - unusual score track
« Last post by corinthiens13 on Today at 01:55:23 AM »
Tsk Tsk, This is for the collectors who cannot rest until they have one of each version of anything Carcassonne.  No one actually plays with tiles anymore - online is where the action is!

Hi,

Well, I'm "no one" then, playing with tiles only. A lot of expansions are missing online, and for me, playing on screen is never worth sitting around a table with friends  ;) (though coronavirus reduced the number of games those past few months  :-[ ).

Cheers !
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