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Messages - tothederby

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I'd not taken into account the possibility of the dragon movement occurring at different times (I'd taken latest ZMG rules).  Having said that I don't think based on current rules it would interfere with moving the princess and knight step into step 4 Move the Wood phase 1.  But by not doing so though, the range of options is reduced and the sequence I think is unnecessarily forced.  I'm sure I'm still missing something...
Should we set up a separate post on Builders + auctions?

On the question of who chooses the order to score completed features, I grasp for Occam's razor which I think would push for leaving the decision with the active player.  The process of it being your turn hands control to you as the active player and gives you a series of choices - this would seem to be an important one.

I've tried your fix for my "transmogrifying" problem (for Internet Explorer) but it hasn't worked.  I am v keen to see your order of play!  I think your idea of being able to dynamically pull extensions together and get a consolidated set of rules for that combinations is fabulous.

Thanks for your clarifications on Leipzig road connectivity.  I think your short list of "small village, house, crossroads, road junction, trees", which adheres strictly to the rules is the way to go.  Perhaps the clarification could centre around "the road is not connected if any active feature cuts across or impedes into the road".  This would also exclude Bazaars and festivals in the long list - it keeps it clean (at least for now)?


Official Rules / Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« on: March 20, 2019, 02:30:26 PM »
Flowchart with updates for Robbers and Messengers (pending clarifications!)

1. There are two parts to awarding points for a Wheel of Fortune event
- a) acting on the instructions for the particular sector of the wheel and
- b) points for where the followers sit on the crown spaces.
For the Messengers expansion, are these 2 different and separate scoring events or only one?

2. When scoring completed features during a cycle of a turn, does the scoring of each feature count as a trigger for Messengers (a scoring event) or is it only after the last of the completed features is scored that the scoring event is finished and it triggers drawing a messages tile?

3.  Linked to 2. above, do things like the award of ringmaster points, watchtower points, points from meeples in the Leipzig quarters, count as separate scoring events for Messengers?

Official Rules / Robber action on another player's turn
« on: March 20, 2019, 02:13:14 PM »
Sorry if this is a Carcassonne 101 question:

Robbers: when an opponent's scoring meeple or messenger moves during a turn that is not yours, can you still score (steal) points with your robber (assuming they are not rogue points)?  Or can you only score points with your robber during your turn?

Official Rules / Re: Deployment out of Carcassonne cathedral district
« on: March 20, 2019, 02:06:13 PM »
Very helpful Meepledrone and clarifies the function of deployment out of the city of Carcassonne

Official Rules / Re: Order of play - Castle (expansion 8) completion
« on: March 20, 2019, 02:04:24 PM »
I am of the same opinion Meepledrone - that your option #2 makes more sense and better connects the various snippets of rules.

If there was a builder repeat cycle (and nothing else - eg. no auction), and a small city was converted into a castle on the 1st cycle before the builder repeat turn, would the next scoring round of features be during that builder repeat turn or would it occur when the next player takes their turn?  I wasn't clear from your example.

Official Rules / Re: La Porxada operation
« on: March 20, 2019, 01:51:42 PM »
Yes thanks - I'd missed the contradiction that La Porxada city needs to be completed.  Great if this could be resolved so it is playable.

Official Rules / Deployment out of Carcassonne cathedral district
« on: March 16, 2019, 01:10:23 PM »
I had 2 questions regarding the deployment out of the city of Carcassonne:

1. Can an abbot meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to a garden? 
2. Can a meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to Baba Yaga’s hut? If yes, is this true for an abbot meeple as well as normal meeple, big meeple, ringmaster, phantom and wagon?

Official Rules / Re: Order of play - Castle (expansion 8) completion
« on: March 16, 2019, 12:56:51 PM »
Thanks again Meepledrone

Do you think you can score it on a builder repeat cycle / turn or an auction repeat cycle?  Or does it really mean your turn?


Official Rules / Re: La Porxada operation
« on: March 16, 2019, 12:51:41 PM »
Thanks very much Meepledrone.

Yes what Halfling said about swapping made sense and the caveat helps to clarify any misunderstandings.

Thanks v much for the English translation of the Spanish and your guidance on how to interpret.

It makes sense it is not double scoring, rather just an "upgrade" to the scoring for those meeples in the La Porxada city.

The translation makes it interesting and a bit ambiguous as you say.  Reading it at face value it seems the moment that matters is whether you have a knight in La Porxada city at the end of the game (and not for instance when it completes).

Breaking down your translation pasted again here:
"The second option is that, at the end of the game, all the uncompleted cities controlled by one or several players who have a knight in the city containing La Porxada will be scored as if they were completed."

- you need to have a knight in La Porxada city at the end of the game to qualify for the bonus
- La Porxada city may or may not be one of those incomplete cities - it is not required to be complete to receive the bonus (just need to have a knight in it)
- you need to have (joint or full) control of any incomplete city to qualify for the bonus
- then you may receive the bonus (which is to score those controlled cities as complete instead of as incomplete)
- scoring occurs at the end of the game
Is this the right interpretation (pending you response from Oriol Comas)?

Thanks again Meepledrone

Official Rules / Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« on: March 15, 2019, 06:03:58 PM »
Flowchart attached here

Official Rules / Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« on: March 15, 2019, 05:57:57 PM »
Many thanks Meepledrone - i really appreciate it.

I've updated the pdf to include an order of play flowchart which builds off the work of Christopher May (he had posted a version of this a while ago - thank you for that Christopher).  And it now includes a list of expansions I've attempted to cover so far.

I still have loads of questions but don't want to monopolise the forum!

Just to give my working:

with 1 base game (B) plus 2 expansions (E1 & E2), the combinations are: B, B+E1, B+E2,B+E1+E2 = 4 combinations = 2 to the power of 2
with 1 base game plus 3 expansions: B, B+E1, B+E2, B+E3, B+E1+E2, B+E1+E3, B+E2+E3, B+E1+E2+E3 = 8 = 2 to the power of 3
with 1 base game plus n expansions: combinations = 2 to the power of n

I guess sticking with the expansions you like best is a good approach - there is not enough time to play all the combinations!
Pinning down the rules well with so many possible interactions is also important......

The figure I come up with, rounded, is 275 billion.  If two more expansions were added, options suggested by Sinscerly and Whaleyland, this would bring the figure to approx. 1.1 trillion (or exactly 1 terabyte of game combinations).

Hi Meepledrone
I was thinking about the princess and knight situation.

This may help our thinking process and perhaps go a bit deeper (or it may not help!)...

Situation 1: If "A" happens, then you must do "B" and if you do "B" you cannot do "C", "D" or "E"
Situation 2: If "A" happens, then you may do "B" and if you do "B" you cannot do "C", "D" or "E"
Situation 3: If "A" happens, then you may do "C" and if you do "C" you cannot do "B", "D" or "E"
Situation 4: If "A" happens, then you may do "D" and if you do "D" you cannot do "B", "C" or "E"

Situations 3 and 4 can be combined with either situation 1 OR situation2 (but not both - Situation 1 and 2 are mutually exclusive - either you must do "B" or you may do "B").

If you had situations 2, 3 and 4 available to you, how would you choose which one you would do first?  and what reasoning would you give (rhetorically)?  If you cannot choose, then they should all be offered together, effectively as one choice.

If you had situation 1 with either or both of situations 3 and 4, you can now choose an order.  Situation 1 has to happen first since it is a requirement for "B" to happen, then if any choice remains available (there won't be any in this case) you could choose between 3 & 4.

The output of this is to group together rules that have the same structure and conditionality and this drives the timing of when they need to happen and whether they are simultaneous.

The same applies to the acrobat problem you and Skull One were discussing.  I think I have the same outcome as you which is that scoring acrobats are one of the 19 choices that need to be decided simultaneously on phase 1 of move the wood.  Since another choice at this moment is to place a meeple on an acrobat pyramid, there is no conflict - you can only choose at most one or the other of these actions (page 9 of my condensed rules refer).

I think this is just the start of the conversation though - lots of other things spin off....

Hope we can continue the discussion



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