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Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: Carcassonne93 on February 19, 2020, 04:59:23 AM

Title: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 19, 2020, 04:59:23 AM
1. If you remove a knight with the princess, can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?
2. If you remove a knight with the princess, can you place a meeple in the Markets of Leipzig?
3. If the fairy is placed on the same tile with a non-meeple, (builder, pig, shepherd etc.), do you receive the „1 point at the beginning of your turn” and „Additional points when scoring”?
4. Can you fly with a big meeple, builder, pig, wagon, shepherd or ringmaster?
5. Can you move a meeple from cathedral to an abbey, garden, castle from Germany, monastery from Germany or japanese building?
6. Can you place the abbot in a castle from Germany, monastery from Germany or japanese building?
7. Bridges, Castles and Bazaars: Do you receive points with the castle if in its 6-tile area a garden is finished?
8. If you have a normal meeple placed on a hill, in a city, and another player has a big meeple placed on the same city, who receive the points?
9. If there are 3 or 2 meeple of same colour in a pyramid or on the same tile, all 3 or 2 meeples receive points with the big top?
10. The messages: (2) Smallest City: The same as Message 1, but for cities, instead of roads. If you score a city without cathedral and Coats of Arms, composed from 5 tiles (example), dou you receive 5? Or 10?
11. The messages: (3) Smallest Monastery: The same as Message 1, but for monasteries, instead of roads. Can you score shrines, abbeys, gardens, castles from Germany, monastery from Germany or japanese building?
12. The messages: (3) Smallest Monastery: The same as Message 1, but for monasteries, instead of roads. If you have a meeple place as an abbot on a monastery from Germany or japanese building, can you score it?
13. Can you place the mage or the witch in a castle from Germany?
14. Can you place the mage or the witch in a castle (Bridges, Castles and Bazaars)?
15. Do you receive points with the robber if the flock of sheep is scored?
16. Can you place a meeple on a tile and place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne in the same turn?
17. If you remove a knight with the princess, can you grow the flock (of sheep)?
18. If you place the tile with the volcano from River II, can you grow the flock (of sheep)?
19. What happens with the starting tiles if you play with The River, Count, King and Robber and The Markets of Leipzig simultaneously?
20. The Markets of Leipzig: If you play with other expansions that contain meeples, do you need the extra meeple („If possible give an extra meeple to each player as meeples might run low easily in this variant.”)?
21. In this image (http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/14/Markets_Of_Leipzig_C2_Example_01.png), the road with Lipsia score 2 or 3 points?
22. Count, King and Robber: In this image (http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/19/Inns_And_Cathedrals_C2_Tile_I.jpg), if you have the robber, do you receive 2 points?
23. In the Example 2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#3._Scoring_a_feature), can you follow the red meeple with the yellow robber (the yellow robber followed the blue meeple)?
24. Can you place the Abbey in a place in wich is surrounded by 8 tiles (to be finished in the same turn)?
25. How many cities are there in this image (http://wikicarpedia.com/images/8/8b/Abbey_And_Mayor_C2_Abbey_Example_02.png)?
26. Can you place the red mayor in a city that contains other red meeples („A mayor may only be placed in a city containing no knights or mayors.”)?
27. Can you place red meeples in a city that contains a red mayor („A mayor may only be placed in a city containing no knights or mayors.”)?
28. What happens if there are 2 meeples in a castle (Bridges, Castles and Bazaars) like in this example1 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier#2._Placing_a_meeple).
29. If you choose to fly, and you have where to place the meeple, are you forced to place the meeple on that tile or you can choose to do not place a meeple in this turn?
30. The Messages: Do you receive a message tile if you pay (or lose) points (The Tower or Bridges, Castles and Bazaars)?
31. The Messages: Do you receive a message tile if you receive 1 point from the fairy or points from the robber?
32.  The Messages: In the same turn: You have the meeple on 0. You score a city with 10 points. Now you have the meeple on 10. Then, you score 2 points for a road. Now you have the meeple on 12. Do you receive a message tile?
33. The fairy has effect for a castle?
34. You have a road with inn. It also have the mage and the fairy. You receive 21 points (6 tiles (6p.), 6p. for inn, 6p. for magae and 3 for fairy). The acstle receive 21 points?
35. You receive 22 points with a city. You receive 22 points with a castle. Can you receive the points for the city with the meeple and the points for the castle with the messenger?
36. A player A pay 3 points. In this case you receive -2 points with the robber (you have the robber on player A)?
37. A player receive 1 point with the fairy and pay 3 points in the same turn. How many points do you receive with the robber (you have the robber on player A)?
38. Crop Circles: Can you place a red meeple in a city where are 1 red meeple and 1 blue meeple?
39. Three cloister are finished in the same turn. Player A receive 12 points (Leipzig). Robber B is placed on player A. How many points receive robber B?

Thanks!

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 19, 2020, 03:15:22 PM
Hi Carcassonne93,

Welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy all the stuff available here.  ;D

See my answers below for questions 1 to 5. I will continue tomorrow.

1. If you remove a knight with the princess, can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?

Short answer: No, there is no relation between princess tiles and the City of Carcassonne.

Long answer:

Placing a meeple in the City of Carcassonne requires you to complete a feature scored by another player while you get no points. The removal of a knight has no direct relationship with the completion or the scoring of a feature, so no meeple could be deployed to the City of Carcassonne as a result of this particular action.

Another case is that you completed a city with the princess tile (removing a knight as a side effect) but you scored no points. This action of completing the city for other players would allow you to deploy a meeple to the City of Carcassonne.

You can revisit the rules here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne  (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne)

2. If you remove a knight with the princess, can you place a meeple in the Markets of Leipzig?

Short answer: No, there is no relation between princess tiles and the Markets of Carcassonne.

Long answer:

The scenario that allows you to send a meeple to Leipzig is the following:
(i) You complete a road connected to Leipzig
(ii) You have the majority on the road
(iii) You decide to send one of your meeples on the road to Leipzig (the scoring depends on your meeples on the road and the destination district)

You can revisit the rules here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_a_feature)

The princess tile has no direct connection to the scenario described above. There are two princess tiles with road segments that can help you close a road leading to Leipzig, but the removal of a knight will have no impact on the the reason to send meeples to Leipzig. 

3. If the fairy is placed on the same tile with a non-meeple, (builder, pig, shepherd etc.), do you receive the „1 point at the beginning of your turn” and „Additional points when scoring”?

Short answer: No, the fairy only affects meeples.

Long answer:

The fairy can only be assigned to meeples, so special figures such as the builder, the pig, the shepherd or the barn cannot benefit from the additional points provided by the fairy.

You can revisit the rules here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_4 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_4)

4. Can you fly with a big meeple, builder, pig, wagon, shepherd or ringmaster?

Short answer: A big meeple, a wagon and a ringmaster can be fliers. Builders, pigs and shepherds cannot fly.

Long answer: Only meeples can be fliers (regular meeples, large meeple, mayor, wagon, ringmaster, abbot, phantom). Special figures cannot be fliers (builder, pig, shepherd, barn). Regarding mayors and abbots, these figures can only land on valid features our to their placement restrictions. Additionally, the phantom used as a second figure, can only be a flier if the first figure did not use the flying machine.

You can find more detailed information here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier#cite_note-1 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier#cite_note-1)

5. Can you move a meeple from cathedral to an abbey, garden, castle from Germany, monastery from Germany or japanese building?

You can deploy a meeple from the cathedral district in the City of Carcassonne to any monastic building, that is, monastery, abbey, shrine, German monastery, Dutch & Belgian monastery, Japanese building or Darmstadt church. Gardens, German castles and German cathedrals are not monastic buildings and are not considered as possible destinations.

The meeple can only be placed as a monk even if the destination is a German monastery, a Dutch & Belgian monastery or a Japanese building. The reason is that the destination feature is supposed to have been just completed. Meeples placed as abbots do not consider the feature completed even if surrounded so they stay on the feature (even if surrounded) until the end of the game, when they are evaluated.

You can review the rules here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne)

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 21, 2020, 05:22:14 AM
Ha ha ha!!

More and more questions... Love it.

One thing, if you want to show an image inline, use the IMG tag instead of the URL tag. Don't know if you wanted to do this or just included the raw URL on purpose.

URL:

http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/14/Markets_Of_Leipzig_C2_Example_01.png (http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/14/Markets_Of_Leipzig_C2_Example_01.png)

IMG:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/14/Markets_Of_Leipzig_C2_Example_01.png)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 21, 2020, 03:22:59 PM
Some more answers...

6. Can you place the abbot in a castle from Germany, monastery from Germany or japanese building?

You can place an abbot on a German monastery (also on a C1 Dutch & Belgian monastery)  or on a Japanese building as they are monasteries (no matter they have special rules). Just to drive you crazy, these special monasteries would allow you to place your abbot as a monk (standing) or as an abbot (on its side):
* If placed as a monk, the abbot meeple would follow the regular rules, that is, you can evaluate the monastery when completed or you could score the monastery early by removing the abbot before completing the monastery. 
* If placed as a abbot, the abbot meeple would stay on the special monastery until the end of the game, when it can be evaluated. 

Please check here for a clarification about the placement covering the special monasteries:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-5)

Regarding German castles, the abbot cannot occupy them. The same happens with Baba Yaga's Hut. Both features have a scoring mechanism more or less similar to monasteries but they are not proper monasteries.

For more info:
* Monasteries in Germany (C2) / Japanese Buildings (C2):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries)
* Monasteries in Germany (C1) / Monasteries in the Netherlands & Belgium (C1):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries_(1st_edition))
* Castles in Germany (C2):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany)
* Castles in Germany (C1):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany_(1st_edition))
* Baba Yaga's Hut (C1):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition))

7. Bridges, Castles and Bazaars: Do you receive points with the castle if in its 6-tile area a garden is finished?

Let's separate the question into two parts:
1) Does a completed garden trigger a castle scoring?
2) Can your castle lord score points for the completed garden?

And here you are the answers:
1) If a garden in one of the 6 tiles of your castle fief is completed, it would trigger the scoring of your castle.
2) If you have a meeple other than a mayor occupying the castle, you will score the points for the garden. The mayor cannot score points if placed in a castle as the castle has no coats of arms.

More info here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2)


8. If you have a normal meeple placed on a hill, in a city, and another player has a big meeple placed on the same city, who receive the points?

The large meeple get the points. The hill is only taken into account if there is a tie which is not the case here (regular meeple vs. large meeple).

You can revisit the rules for scoring with a hill here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#3._Scoring_a_hill (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#3._Scoring_a_hill)

9. If there are 3 or 2 meeple of same colour in a pyramid or on the same tile, all 3 or 2 meeples receive points with the big top?

Each meeple on the circus space tile or on any adjacent tile meeple receives points individually from the big top when scored. The rules do not specify any restrictions, so it does not matter if several meeples share the same tile such as when placed in an acrobat pyramid. Thus no majority is aplied either. 

You can revisit the scoring rules of the big top here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature)

10. The messages: (2) Smallest City: The same as Message 1, but for cities, instead of roads. If you score a city without cathedral and Coats of Arms, composed from 5 tiles (example), dou you receive 5? Or 10?

You would get 5 points. The rules specify, that you score the feature "as you would during final scoring".

You can revisit the rules here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

11. The messages: (3) Smallest Monastery: The same as Message 1, but for monasteries, instead of roads. Can you score shrines, abbeys, gardens, castles from Germany, monastery from Germany or japanese building?

This message would apply to any monastery version, that is, regular monasteries (or cloisters as in C1), shrines, abbeys, German monasteries, Dutch & Belgian monasteries, Japanese buildings and Darmstadt churches. German castles, gardens and Baba Yaga's Hut are not proper monasteries so they are not considered.

More info here:
* Clarifications for Message 3: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)
* Darmstadt churches:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Darmstadt_Promo_(1st_edition)#Church_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Darmstadt_Promo_(1st_edition)#Church_Tiles)

12. The messages: (3) Smallest Monastery: The same as Message 1, but for monasteries, instead of roads. If you have a meeple place as an abbot on a monastery from Germany or japanese building, can you score it?

This is a good question. The rules for Messages were created before Monasteries in Germany was released so the authors could only assume monasteries with a meeple as a monk evaluated ant the end of the game. In this case you are thinking of special monasteries with a meeple as an abbot which only can be evaluated at the end of the game.

There is no official clarification (none is expected either for the time being) regarding this interaction already discussed back in 2016 in the German forum:

https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3434 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3434)

There is no incompatibility or limitation in the official rules to force players not to consider special monasteries with a meeple placed as an abbot. It will have to be agreed at the beginning of a game one of the following house rules:
* Messsage (3) considers special monasteries with a meeple placed as a monk or as an abbot.
* Messsage (3) considers special monasteries with a meeple placed as a monk only. Special monasteries with a meeple placed as an abbot are not taken into consideration.

More info here:
* Clarifications for Message 3:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)


13. Can you place the mage or the witch in a castle from Germany?

No, the mage and the witch can only be placed on roads and cities.

Revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile)
 

14. Can you place the mage or the witch in a castle (Bridges, Castles and Bazaars)?

No, the mage and the witch can only be placed on roads and cities. A castle is not a city but a different feature, so no magic figure can be placed on it.

Revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile)

15. Do you receive points with the robber if the flock of sheep is scored?

Yes, you may steal points from flock of sheep being scored .

In general you may steal points generated from any scoring meeple or messenger moving forward except when those points are rogue points (points already stolen).

If your robber is next to a scoring meeple or messenger moving backwards (such as from a tower ransom or bazaar payment ), your robber will move with the figure but you won't lose points.

More details here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#3._Scoring_a_feature)

16. Can you place a meeple on a tile and place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne in the same turn?

Yes, you can.

The actions mentioned happen in different phases of a player's turn. The sequence would be as follows:
* 1. Placing a tile: You place a tile and complete a feature controlled by another player, let's say in a city.
* 2. Placing a meeple: You place a meeple on a different feature, let's say on a road.
* 3. Scoring a feature: The other player scores the city thanks to you and you get no points. You are entitled then to place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne)

17. If you remove a knight with the princess, can you grow the flock (of sheep)?

Yes, you can.

The "Grow the Flock" action happens after the usual actions in phase 2. Placing a meeple take place. These usual action would include placing a meeple or removing a knight.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile)

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 22, 2020, 04:06:19 AM
Thank you!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 22, 2020, 07:54:31 AM
Some more answers...

18. If you place the tile with the volcano from River II, can you grow the flock (of sheep)?

Yes, the rules for extending a field with your shepherd would apply during the placement of the river and during the normal game. Therefore, using the volcano tile form River II to extend a field with your shepherd will allow you either to extend your flock or to score it.

You will find here a list of possible actions when placing a volcano tile not related to meeple/special figure placement:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#cite_note-3 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#cite_note-3)

Form that list, only a subset will be available when placing the volcano tile of River II, since some feature will not be present yet on the board. The available ones may be the following, depending on the expansions used:
* Fairy action (C1 & C2 Exp. 3 - The Princess and the Dragon): move the fairy (as indicated in the rules).
* Shepherd actions (C1 & C2 Exp. 9 - Hills & Sheep): grow the flock, guide the flock to the stable.
* Wheel of Fortune actions (C1 The Wheel of Fortune): place a meeple on the Wheel of Fortune.
* Abbot actions (C2 The Abbot): remove your abbot and score its points.
* Little building actions (C1 Little Buildings): place a little building on the tile just played.
 
19. What happens with the starting tiles if you play with The River, Count, King and Robber and The Markets of Leipzig simultaneously?

There is no official ruling about combining all these starting tiles, so it is up to the players to arrange them to their liking.

You may find various rules on combining
* River I and River II into one long river: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River#Combining_The_River_and_The_River_II (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River#Combining_The_River_and_The_River_II)
* River I and/or River II and the City of Carcassonne (not recommended in C2):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#The_Count_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#The_Count_of_Carcassonne)
* The base game start tile and the The School:

So my suggestion would be to have a look a the setups for mega-Carcassonne games and pick what you like and/or suits your needs..

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mega-Carcassonne#Starting_expansions (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mega-Carcassonne#Starting_expansions)

20. The Markets of Leipzig: If you play with other expansions that contain meeples, do you need the extra meeple („If possible give an extra meeple to each player as meeples might run low easily in this variant.”)?

The rules of Markets of Leipzig are written only with the base game in mind and there are no clarifications about the interactions with other expansions. In this regard, when combining this expansions with others, it would be up to you to decide if you want play with 8 regular meeples (if possible), as recommended in the rules, or if you apply a house rule and go back to 7 regular meeples if other expansions incorporate new meeples to the game.

21. In this image (http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/14/Markets_Of_Leipzig_C2_Example_01.png), the road with Lipsia score 2 or 3 points?

The road going from the village at the crossroads to Lipsia is worth 2 points.

As indicated in the rules: "The road on the double Land tiles counts merely as one road in a road scoring." So even if the road segments on the Markets of Leipzig double-sized tiles are longer than usual, they count as 1 point. Additionally, there is no line splitting the tiles in half to indicate there are two road segments on each tile.

You can review the scoring rules (third bullet under "Take note"):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_a_feature)

Other double-size tiles such as the German castles also behave as single tiles too for all purposes. However, you will find 2x3 tiles in the C2 version of The Count of Carcassonne or a 4x4 tile in the Wheel of Fortune that show dividing lines for the outer features, so the visual cue leads you to interpret them as individual tiles although they are part of a single "large tile".

You can see more here:
* Castles in Germany: 
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany)
* The City of Carcassonne:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne)
* The Wheel of Fortune:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Wheel_of_Fortune_(1st_edition)#Starting_tiles_.5B9.5D (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Wheel_of_Fortune_(1st_edition)#Starting_tiles_.5B9.5D)

22. Count, King and Robber: In this image (http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/19/Inns_And_Cathedrals_C2_Tile_I.jpg), if you have the robber, do you receive 2 points?

Good question!

I have been looking for a clarification on this matter to no avail. My take on this would be that, since short roads on various tiles like this one cannot be claimed or scored, they shouldn't be considered for the Robber Baron bonus either. Following this rationale, you would get 0 points for those two roads.

This would be the case for the tile you refer to from I&C and another one from The Festival:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/19/Inns_And_Cathedrals_C2_Tile_I.jpg)(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/2/21/Festival15-06.png)
I&CThe Festival

EDIT: So far I have found this discussion on this matter:
https://videogamegeek.com/thread/818886/scout-scoring-small-roads-ic-tile  (https://videogamegeek.com/thread/818886/scout-scoring-small-roads-ic-tile)

23. In the Example 2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#3._Scoring_a_feature), can you follow the red meeple with the yellow robber (the yellow robber followed the blue meeple)?

In this case the yellow robber followed the blue scoring meeple since blue scored 3 rogue points (stolen points) and robbers cannot steal stonen points.

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/2/2f/Robbers_C2_Example_02.png)

When you ask "can you follow the red meeple with the yellow robber?," do you mean instead of following the blue meeple or after the final scenario with all the figures on space 19? Please advice.

24. Can you place the Abbey in a place in wich is surrounded by 8 tiles (to be finished in the same turn)?

Yes, you can. You ca do it with an abbey, the same as with any other monastic building or even a garden.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 22, 2020, 08:43:40 AM
When you ask "can you follow the red meeple with the yellow robber?," do you mean instead of following the blue meeple or after the final scenario with all the figures on space 19?
I want to say „after the final scenario with all the figures on space 19”.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 22, 2020, 09:28:45 AM
Some more answers...

25. How many cities are there in this image (http://wikicarpedia.com/images/8/8b/Abbey_And_Mayor_C2_Abbey_Example_02.png)?

There are five cities in the image:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/8/8b/Abbey_And_Mayor_C2_Abbey_Example_02.png)

The abbey closes the edges of two of them but it is not part of any of them. As a side note, the abbey completed a one tile city (to the right of the abbey tile) and it also completed the 3-tile road occupied by the blue meeple.

See more info here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#cite_note-7 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#cite_note-7)

26. Can you place the red mayor in a city that contains other red meeples („A mayor may only be placed in a city containing no knights or mayors.”)?

No, the mayor, as any other meeple valid in a city (abbots are not considered), can only be placed in an incomplete unoccupied city. The wording of the rules is a rather misleading hence, the following clarification:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#cite_note-8 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#cite_note-8)

27. Can you place red meeples in a city that contains a red mayor („A mayor may only be placed in a city containing no knights or mayors.”)?

No, all meeples (including the mayor) can only be placed on an incomplete unoccupied features. This applies to any meeple placed in a city. See previous answer.

28. What happens if there are 2 meeples in a castle (Bridges, Castles and Bazaars) like in this example1 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier#2._Placing_a_meeple).

Castles are not located on a particular tile so they cannot be reached by a flying machine or a magic portal:
* Flying machines can deploy a meeple to an incomplete feature located on a previously placed tile.
* Magic portals can deploy a meeple to an incomplete unoccupied feature located on a previously placed tile.

Castles are not cities so:
* You cannot use a crop circle with the shield symbol to deploy a meeple to a castle.
* You cannot deploy a meeple from the castle district in the City of Carcassonne to a castle.

More info:
* Using magic portals: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_3 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_3)
* Using crop circles:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action)
* Deploying from the City of Carcassonne:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne)

29. If you choose to fly, and you have where to place the meeple, are you forced to place the meeple on that tile or you can choose to do not place a meeple in this turn?

As per the rules, once you decide to use the flying machine, you have to proceed all the way through. If the outcome is not one suiting you, you will have to accept it, even if your meeple is back to your supply when no valid placement is possible (there is no valid feature for your meeple or no tile in the location designated by the die).

30. The Messages: Do you receive a message tile if you pay (or lose) points (The Tower or Bridges, Castles and Bazaars)?

No, paying or losing points during your turn are not considered as events triggering messages. Check this clarification:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-19 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-19)

Actually, please have a look at this section that lists all the possible events that may produce scoring rounds triggering messages when combining various expansions:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

As you can see, bazaars and the tower are nor present in this list.

31. The Messages: Do you receive a message tile if you receive 1 point from the fairy or points from the robber?

Yes to both parts of the question:
* Fairy points: As commented in the previous answer, the 1-point fairy bonus generates a scoring round triggering messages.
* Robber points: During a scoring round, your scoring meeple or your messager may score stolen points and trigger a message. Check the interaction with The Messengers after Final Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Final_scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Final_scoring))
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 22, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
When you ask "can you follow the red meeple with the yellow robber?," do you mean instead of following the blue meeple or after the final scenario with all the figures on space 19?
I want to say „after the final scenario with all the figures on space 19”.

Yes, in this case the yellow robber will be able to follow the red meeple or the blue meeple if any of them scores rogue points. 
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 22, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
And some more answers...

32.  The Messages: In the same turn: You have the meeple on 0. You score a city with 10 points. Now you have the meeple on 10. Then, you score 2 points for a road. Now you have the meeple on 12. Do you receive a message tile?

Yes, the idea of the scoring round and using two scoring figures is that maximize your odds to land on a dark space. In this case, your regular scoring round comprises the scoring of two features. The order you follow to score them grants you one landing on a dark space. Once you finish the scoring round you receive a message and proceed with it, maybe landing on a new dark space and receiving another message.

If you had scored 10 for your city and 5 for your road, you would still receive one message even after landing twice on dark spaces because both landings happened in the same scoring round.

As I commented in a previous post, please review all the clarifications provided in this section to better grasp how HiG addresses messages with multiple expansions grouping scoring events in scoring rounds.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

You may also find interesting this thread:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4246.msg62474#msg62474 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4246.msg62474#msg62474)

33. The fairy has effect for a castle?

No, the fairy gives 3 bonus points to a meeple on a feature being scored but the castle would only get the points scored for the feature. The castle is not aware of any bonus points scored by meeples on the feature.

I know this is a subtle matter. You can find a detailed discussion here in the forum:
* http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4051.msg60809#msg60809 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4051.msg60809#msg60809)

34. You have a road with inn. It also have the mage and the fairy. You receive 21 points (6 tiles (6p.), 6p. for inn, 6p. for magae and 3 for fairy). The acstle receive 21 points?

No, the castle will receive only 18 points. The castle does not get the 3 points for the fairy. Let me explain...

There are three layers of scoring here so to speak:

1. A road:
    - 6 tiles (1 point per tile)
    - 1 inn, modifying the core feature score (1 point --> 2 points per tile)
    - The mage, providing bonus points --> +1 point per tile
    - 1 meeple: we assume it is alone and you have the majority

2. The fairy:
    - Assigned to the meeple on the road --> provide 3 points to the meeple's player when the feature is scored.

3. The castle:
    - The road overlaps the castle fief.
    - The castle lord is a meeple different from a mayor (so the points can be scored).

So the scoring goes as follows:
1. Road: 6 tiles x 2 points per tile (base score + inn) +  6 tiles x 1 point per tile (mage) = 12 + 6 = 18 points. You get 18 points.
2. Castle: scores the same points as the road, that is, 18 points. The player occupying the castle gets 18 points (resolved right after the road as per the rules).
3. Fairy: 3 points (the meeple is on a feature being scored). You get 3 bonus points.

And you may wonder, why I am separating the fairy bonus from the road.

Well, let's modify a bit the scenario. Let's assume that:
* The road has two of your meeples and a third one from another player.
* The fairy is assigned to the meeple of the other player.

In this new scenario:
* You have the majority and you will still score 18 points.
* The castle scores the same points as the road again, that is 18 points (resolved right after the road as per the rules).
* The 3 fairy bonus points go to another player.

As you can see, the fairy points are independent from the feature, they go to the meeple the fairy is assigned to. And I think that, in this case, there cannot be any doubt the castle gets the correct points.

You can follow the same reasoning with other examples involving other meeple-related bonuses, such as, the ringmaster points, to understand why the a castle sometimes seems not to get all the points it should, like in your previous example.

Please let me know if this explanation helped you undertand all the subtleties hidden in the rules.

35. You receive 22 points with a city. You receive 22 points with a castle. Can you receive the points for the city with the meeple and the points for the castle with the messenger?

Yes, each feature can be scored by a different scoring figure.

It would be not allowed, for example to split the scoring for one feature between the two figures. For example: score 8 points for the city with the scoring meeple and the remaining 14 points with the messager.

Here you are a clarification covering this topic:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-13 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-13)

36. A player A pay 3 points. In this case you receive -2 points with the robber (you have the robber on player A)?

Your robber will not get negative points. In this case, your robber will move backward along with player A's scoring figure. Check this clarification about this case:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-5)

As an alternative, if there are some other scoring figures on the same space and you decide to stay with them to steal points from another player. Check this other clarification here covering this possibility:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-10 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-10)

37. A player receive 1 point with the fairy and pay 3 points in the same turn. How many points do you receive with the robber (you have the robber on player A)?

The robber will get 1 point.

These two events won't happen at the same time. Let's assume player A does as follows:
1. At the beginning of his turn, player A gets the 1-point fairy bonus.
2. Later, for example, player A decides to ransom one of his meeples, paying 3 points for it.

If so, your robber, placed on the same space as player A's scoring meeple, will steal 1 point (1 point halved and rounded up). Right after that, your robber will be removed from the scoreboard, so the payment of the 3 points won't have any effect on your scoreboard figures.

Another order of events can be the following:
1. Before anything else, Player A decides to ransom one of his meeples, paying 3 points for it.
2. At the beginning of his turn (afterwards), player A gets the 1-point fairy bonus.

In this second scenario, your robber will move backwards along with player A's scoring meeple (you lose no points) when he pays the 3 points. And then you will steal 1 point from the fairy as before and remove your robber.

So no matter the order of events, you get 1 point in this case.

All in all, you can steal points from scoring figures moving forward whenever they points are not rogue points. In case of rogue points or negative points, your robber will move along with the other player's meeple. You'll never lose points when stealing points.

38. Crop Circles: Can you place a red meeple in a city where are 1 red meeple and 1 blue meeple?

Yes, the result will be a city with a blue meeple and two red meeples on the same tile.

In this case, the crop circle rules just instruct you to place an additional meeple next to one already placed on a given feature (given the target feature type: city, road, field or any of the previous three as in Halflings II). Both of your meeples will be on the same tile on the same feature. The presence of other meeples on the feature is irrelevant.

You may review the updated rules here (bear in mind the ZMan original rules contained several mistranslations from German corrected here):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action)

39. Three cloister are finished in the same turn. Player A receive 12 points (Leipzig). Robber B is placed on player A. How many points receive robber B?

Robber B will get 2 points for player B. Each monastery is scored individually. So player A will get 4 points three times. Robber B, in turn, will steal 2 points from the first 4-point bonus and then it will be removed from the scoreboard.

In a nutshell, scoring multiple features at the same time (or getting bonus points multiple tiles) are handled as individual events. The robber can get steal points from one of those events before being removed.

Check this clarification about the scoring order when multiple features are scored at once.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-7 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-7)

Thanks!

You are welcome!  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 22, 2020, 01:38:10 PM
But "instead of following the blue meeple"?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 22, 2020, 01:58:51 PM
But "instead of following the blue meeple"?

Following the blue meeple requires the read meeple not to score first (no rogue points allowed) and the blue meeple to score rogue points.

You are not forced to "follow" or to steal from a predetermined player. You may decided what to do if several options show up when your robber shares the same space with more than one scoring figure (scoring meeple or messenger).

BTW, am I undertanding you question correctly?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 22, 2020, 02:24:56 PM
Yes, you understand.

40. Message 8: Can you score a cloister where you have a monk placed ass an abbot?
41. Monasteries in Germany: At the end of the game, the Bookbinders quarter matters (if you have a meeple placed as an abbot)?
42. (The image): What happens if the red line from right is composed from a double Leipzig tile (or a Castle from Germany)?
43. Can you move meeples from City of Carcassonne in a monastery where there is a monk placed as an abbot?
44. Can you move meeples from City of Carcassonne in a feature that is not completed, but is scored (Message 8 )?

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 22, 2020, 04:32:13 PM
Yes, you understand.

OK.  ;)

40. Message 8: Can you score a cloister where you have a monk placed ass an abbot?

Yes, since the rule talks about selecting a meeple on a feature and scoring it. There is no limitation regarding the type of feature or the "position" of the meeple. Although there is no official clarification regarding this interaction, the interpretation of the rules would lead to this conclusion.

41. Monasteries in Germany: At the end of the game, the Bookbinders quarter matters (if you have a meeple placed as an abbot)?

No, during final scoring only the Tanners quarter bonus affecting field scoring. The Bookbinder quarter bonus only applies during the game.

You can revisit the Market of Leipzig rules for final scoring here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Final_scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Final_scoring)

42. What happens if the red line from right is composed from a double Leipzig tile?

The double-sized tile will count as one. So the red abbot would score 4 (top column) + 1 (right row, the double-sized tile) + 1 (bottom column) + 2 (left row) + 1 (monastery tile) = 9 points, instead of 10 points.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12469;image)

You can check the notes about how double-sized tiles are be considered in different interactions here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#Other_expansions (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#Other_expansions)

43. Can you move meeples from City of Carcassonne in a monastery where there is a monk placed as an abbot?

No, meeples deployed from the city of Carcassonne to a completed monastery must be placed as monks so they participate in the scoring of the feature.

You can revisit the rules for the redeployment of meeples from the City of Carcassonne here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne)

44. Can you move meeples from City of Carcassonne in a feature that is not completed, but is scored (Message 8 )?

Message 8 may score:
* Incomplete features as if after the game: Since you cannot redeploy meeples from the City of Carcassonne to incomplete features (roads, cities, monastic buildings), this option is ruled out.
* Fields during the game: Since you can redeploy meeples from the City of Carcassonne to fields during and after the game, this option is allowed.

You can revisit the rules for the redeployment of meeples from the City of Carcassonne here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne)

Please check also the clarifications for Expansion 5 regarding field scoring during the game:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne_2)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 22, 2020, 05:01:01 PM
45. Crop Circles, the portal (Princess and the Dragon), The Flyng Machines: Can you place a meeple on a tile where there is placed the dragon?
(42): Same rules for a castle from Germany?
46. When does the dragon's turn start? Here (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#1._Placing_a_tile) says something, here ( http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) something else.
(34): The robber receive 2 or 9 nine points?
47. Can you place meeples on a city where there is already a mayor?
48. Can you move the mayor from the City of Carcassonne in a city that contains other meeples?
49. Can you place the builder on a road or city where there is only the big meeple, wagon, mayor, ringmaster or phantom ("Note that you must already have one normal meeple on the feature in order to place a builder there")?
50. The barber-surgeons: Only one bathhouse is free. A road that contains only a blue meeple and a city that contains only a red meeple are finished in the same turn. What happens?
51. The barber-surgeons: Only one bathhouse is free. A road that contains only a blue wagon is finished. What happens?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 23, 2020, 05:41:44 AM
45. Crop Circles, the portal (Princess and the Dragon), The Flyng Machines: Can you place a meeple on a tile where there is placed the dragon?

No, meeples cannot share the same tile with the dragon.

Check this clarification here (it was included in the C1 rules but not in the C2 :o):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#cite_ref-4 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#cite_ref-4)

(42): Same rules for a castle from Germany?

Yes, if you are referring to double-sized tiles counted as one tile during the scoring of special monasteries with a meeple placed as an abbot. 

46. When does the dragon's turn start? Here (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#1._Placing_a_tile) says something, here ( http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) something else.

Ahhhh... the dragon.  ;)

The C2 P&D page and the Order of Play for C2 match but the latter includes the movement as the last action in phase 1. Placing a Tile instead of showing it as a separate action as per the C2 rules.

When does the dragon move? You have different versions:

A. C2 (current one - according to HiG & ZMG): The dragon moves between phases 1. Placing a Tile and 2. Placing a Meeple, that is, right after all the actions associated to placing a tile take place and before placing any other meeple or figure.
B. C1 (according to HiG & ZMG): The dragon moves between phases 2. Placing a Meeple and 3. Scoring a Feature, that is, right after all the actions associated to placing a meeple take place and before scoring any figures.
C. C1 (according to RGG - a mistranslation of the HiG rules): The dragon moves right after 3. Scoring a Feature but before any additional actions such as crop circles, the bazaar or escaping from city under siege.

Just in case you are interested in the whole story:
* The original HiG rules in German used option B for C1.
* The original English publisher for C1, RGG, mistranslated the rules as indicated in option C. This mistake was quite evident when you compared the written text with the Order of Play summary in the Big Box 3 rules. The former used option C but the latter used option B. They also messed up with the rules regarding placement of the fairy, since the fairy was assigned to the whole tile and not to a particular meeple. 
* When ZMG became the English publisher for C1, they realigned the rules with HiG and option B became official in English. This is the reason why the C1 rules for P&D have so many annotations in the CAR or in WICA as they required many clarifications to reconcilliate all the contradicting, mutating rulings...
* Later HiG released C2 using option A (the current one). ZMG, the English publisher for C2, adopted the same option A.

Options B and C see the dragon movement as the last option of phases 2 and 3. and so it was reflected in the original Order of Play in the CAR. When I created the Order of Play for WICA from the version in the CAR, I updated it to incorporate all the new stuff released since the CAR v7.4 (released in May 2015). I corrected some mistakes, included new stuff, adopted a C2 look, made it dynamic but kept the dragon actions aligned with the C1 arrangement, that is, no separate phase for them.

ZMG added its share of mistranslation to the Big Box 6 rules (specially with the Minis), so more discrepancies to come. If interested, check the summary here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Summary_of_Rule_Sets_%26_Changes (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Summary_of_Rule_Sets_%26_Changes)

Maybe now it is time to move them (the 3 versions) to a separate box to make them stand out. I'm pondering if using the yellow colours I used for all the other additional actions (crop circles, bazaar,...) instead of the the brownish colours used in the P&D rules... The color is not that eye-catching.

Any thoughts?

(34): The robber receive 2 or 9 nine points?

If the robber is next to the scoring meeple of the player scoring the road and the fairy points, the robber would get 9 points for the road. The 2 points from the fairy bonus would be scored later once the robber is removed.

If the robber is next to the player scoring the castle (different from the one scoring the road), the robber would get the 9 points scored for the castle.

The normal order of scoring would be:
1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
    - Tollhouses  (if the player's tollhouse is on a crossroads connected to road(s) being scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
    - Inns (for roads)
    - Cathedrals (for cities)
    - Mage and Witch (for road and cities)
    - Little Buildings (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Bathhouses (for roads and cities)
    - Labyrinths advanced rules (for roads)
    - German Castles (for road and cities)
    - Darmstadtium (for cities)
    - Vineyards (for monastic buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt churches (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)

If present, a robber may steal any of these points.

If multiple features are scored with the placement of one single tile, the player receiving the points decided the order they will be awarded, as indicated here (this is important so robbers get the least points  ;)):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-7 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-7)

Hope this helps  ;D

EDIT: The answer to question 46 was updated below.
EDIT 2: Added Tollhouses as bonus before the feature..
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 23, 2020, 09:46:43 AM
And more and more questions...  ;D

47. Can you place meeples on a city where there is already a mayor?

No, a mayor, as any other meeple, has to comply with the usual rules for meeple placement with the additional restriction mayors can only be deployed to cities and Exp. 8 castles.

Check the following clarification:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#cite_note-8 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#cite_note-8)

48. Can you move the mayor from the City of Carcassonne in a city that contains other meeples?

Yes, the City of Carcassonne allows you to deploy any meeple to one of the following features if it is a valid destination for the meeple: road, city, monastic building (generalizing already?) or field.

Check the clarifications here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#Mayor_and_Wagon (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#Mayor_and_Wagon)

49. Can you place the builder on a road or city where there is only the big meeple, wagon, mayor, ringmaster or phantom ("Note that you must already have one normal meeple on the feature in order to place a builder there")?

Yes, of course. ZMG specified "normal meeple" instead of simply "meeple" as the original ones by HiG. This is another case of mistranslation (did I say anything about this earlier? ;)). When reading expansion rules, you usually gloss over these details as they normally assume to be playing with base game only. In this case, my mind automatically translates these misleading details to their generic version necessary to play with other expansions.  ;D 

Added a clarification about this here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders#cite_note-2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders#cite_note-2)

50. The barber-surgeons: Only one bathhouse is free. A road that contains only a blue meeple and a city that contains only a red meeple are finished in the same turn. What happens?

The active player (the one who just placed the tile) decides the order the features are scored and therefore whose meeple goes to the bathhouse.

Check the last bullet in section "After scoring a feature" here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#Visiting_a_bathhouse_after_scoring

51. The barber-surgeons: Only one bathhouse is free. A road that contains only a blue wagon is finished. What happens?

The blue wagon scores the road and goes to the bathhouse. You won't have any option to move your wagon. Is that what you wanted to know?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 23, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Is that what you wanted to know?

Yes, that I wanted to know.
Thank you for all answers!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 23, 2020, 09:56:14 AM
It's fun...

They are always interesting and they help check whether (and how) WICA covers all your questions.  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 23, 2020, 02:54:46 PM
52. What happens if the fairy is placed on a tile where there are a blue meeple and a red meeple?

The fairy has to be assigned to a meeple when placed on a tile. The fairy will provide:
* Extra points to that meeple (1-point bonus at the beginning of its owner's turn during the game, 3-point bonus when scoring the feature the meeple is on)
* Protection against the dragon (it will benefit all the meeples on the tile as a side effect).

Even if the fairy can be assigned to one meeple only, there is a special case: when the fairy is assigned to an acrobat in a pyramid (Exp 10 - Under the Big Top). In this case, all the meeples in the acrobat pyramid will benefit from the fairy bonus points.

For more information, check these pages:
* Placement of the fairy: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_4 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_4)
* Special case involving acrobats in a pyramid:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats) 

53. What happens if the fairy is placed on a tile where there are a 2 red meeple?

Same answer as for question #52. The fairy may be assigned to only one of those meeples, bearing in mind the special case if both are acrobats in a pyramid.

54. What happens if the fairy is placed on a double-tile?

Same answer as for question #52 (the size of the tile does not affect the fairy).
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 24, 2020, 03:38:59 PM
46. When does the dragon's turn start? Here (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#1._Placing_a_tile) says something, here ( http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) something else.

Ahhhh... the dragon.  ;)

The C2 P&D page and the Order of Play for C2 match but the latter includes the movement as the last action in phase 1. Placing a Tile instead of showing it as a separate action as per the C2 rules.

When does the dragon move? You have different versions:

A. C2 (current one - according to HiG & ZMG): The dragon moves between phases 1. Placing a Tile and 2. Placing a Meeple, that is, right after all the actions associated to placing a tile take place and before placing any other meeple or figure.
B. C1 (according to HiG & ZMG): The dragon moves between phases 2. Placing a Meeple and 3. Scoring a Feature, that is, right after all the actions associated to placing a meeple take place and before scoring any figures.
C. C1 (according to RGG - a mistranslation of the HiG rules): The dragon moves right after 3. Scoring a Feature but before any additional actions such as crop circles, the bazaar or escaping from city under siege.

Just in case you are interested in the whole story:
* The original HiG rules in German used option B for C1.
* The original English publisher for C1, RGG, mistranslated the rules as indicated in option C. This mistake was quite evident when you compared the written text with the Order of Play summary in the Big Box 3 rules. The former used option C but the latter used option B. They also messed up with the rules regarding placement of the fairy, since the fairy was assigned to the whole tile and not to a particular meeple. 
* When ZMG became the English publisher for C1, they realigned the rules with HiG and option B became official in English. This is the reason why the C1 rules for P&D have so many annotations in the CAR or in WICA as they required many clarifications to reconcilliate all the contradicting, mutating rulings...
* Later HiG released C2 using option A (the current one). ZMG, the English publisher for C2, adopted the same option A.

Options B and C see the dragon movement as the last option of phases 2 and 3. and so it was reflected in the original Order of Play in the CAR. When I created the Order of Play for WICA from the version in the CAR, I updated it to incorporate all the new stuff released since the CAR v7.4 (released in May 2015). I corrected some mistakes, included new stuff, adopted a C2 look, made it dynamic but kept the dragon actions aligned with the C1 arrangement, that is, no separate phase for them.

ZMG added its share of mistranslation to the Big Box 6 rules (specially with the Minis), so more discrepancies to come. If interested, check the summary here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Summary_of_Rule_Sets_%26_Changes (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Summary_of_Rule_Sets_%26_Changes)

Maybe now it is time to move them (the 3 versions) to a separate box to make them stand out. I'm pondering if using the yellow colours I used for all the other additional actions (crop circles, bazaar,...) instead of the the brownish colours used in the P&D rules... The color is not that eye-catching.

Any thoughts?


Well, I have an update here...

This morning I was discussing the turn sequence involving the dragon with Black Bear and I learnt to my surprise that the interpretation I was following of the C2 P&D rules was mistaken. You can see here the details:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4055.msg66490#msg66490 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4055.msg66490#msg66490)

So getting back to your question I have to change a few things:


When does the dragon move? You have different versions:

A. C2 (misinterpretation): The dragon moves between phases 1. Placing a Tile and 2. Placing a Meeple, that is, right after all the actions associated to placing a tile take place and before placing any other meeple or figure.

B. C1 & C2 (official one - by HiG & ZMG): The dragon moves between phases 2. Placing a Meeple and 3. Scoring a Feature, that is, right after all the actions associated to placing a meeple take place and before scoring any figures.
C. C1 (by RGG - a mistranslation of the HiG rules): The dragon moves right after 3. Scoring a Feature but before any additional actions such as crop circles, the bazaar or escaping from city under siege.

Just in case you are interested in the whole story:
* The original HiG rules in German used option B for C1.
* The original English publisher for C1, RGG, mistranslated the rules as indicated in option C. This mistake was quite evident when you compared the written text with the Order of Play summary in the Big Box 3 rules. The former used option C but the latter used option B. They also messed up with the rules regarding placement of the fairy, since the fairy was assigned to the whole tile and not to a particular meeple. 
* When ZMG became the English publisher for C1, they realigned the rules with HiG and option B became official in English. This is the reason why the C1 rules for P&D have so many annotations in the CAR or in WICA as they required many clarifications to reconcilliate all the contradicting, mutating rulings...
* Later HiG released C2 using option B (the official one again). ZMG, the English publisher for C2, adopted the same option B but at a certain point it was misinterpreted as indicated in version A by some people and stuck around some time for a while. :o

You can see orher people struggling with version A too here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Carcassonne/comments/d352ka/fairy_movement_dragon_tile/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body (https://www.reddit.com/r/Carcassonne/comments/d352ka/fairy_movement_dragon_tile/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body)

I will update WICA accordingly.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 25, 2020, 02:46:43 AM
57. Is that a monastery?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 25, 2020, 03:22:20 AM
57. Is that a monastery?

Yes. You have this one and also another in P&D, for example:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/1/1d/Princess_And_Dragon_C2_Tile_O.jpg)

EDIT: Just in case you want additional proof, this A&M tile shows the same monastery you asked about:
(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/a/a0/Abbey_And_Mayor_C2_Tile_B.jpg)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 25, 2020, 03:56:59 AM
55. The fairy is placed on a tile or on a feature?
56. If you fly, and you can place the flyer on a tile, are you forced to place the flyer on that tile or you can decide to do not place a meeple in that turn?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 25, 2020, 12:23:22 PM
55. The fairy is placed on a tile or on a feature?

The fairy is assigned to a meeple, placed on a feature on a tile or placed on a castle (across two tiles). The fairy can be also assigned to a meeple on top of a tower.

As I commented in answer 52, I repeat the comments there:

When assigned to a meeple, the fairy will provide:
* Extra points to that meeple (1-point bonus at the beginning of its owner's turn during the game, 3-point bonus when scoring the feature the meeple is on)
* Protection against the dragon (it will benefit all the meeples on the tile as a side effect).

Even if the fairy can be assigned to one meeple only, there is a special case: when the fairy is assigned to an acrobat in a pyramid (Exp 10 - Under the Big Top). In this case, all the meeples in the acrobat pyramid will benefit from the fairy bonus points.

For more information, check these pages:
* Placement of the fairy: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_4 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_4)
* Special case involving acrobats in a pyramid:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats)

56. If you fly, and you can place the flyer on a tile, are you forced to place the flyer on that tile or you can decide to do not place a meeple in that turn?

The rules assume you make a decision either to place a meeple as usual or to use the flying machine. There is no provision to place your meeple as usual if you decide to use the flying machine and you don't like the outcome: your meeple may end up on an unwanted feature or even back in your supply. The latter possibility is commented in the rules and no option is given to fall back to normal placement in this case.

You can check the placement rules the flier here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier#2._Placing_a_meeple  (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier#2._Placing_a_meeple)

EDIT: Added comment about the fairy and a meeple on top of a tower.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 25, 2020, 02:01:25 PM
57. "You may not place a meeple on a Volcano tile." But on a Volcano tile where is not placed the dragon? Can you place a meeple on that tile (Princess and the Dragon#The portal, The flier etc.)?
58. "If A was chosen, you may only place the meeple in a feature where at least one of your indicated meeples is already present (farmer to farmer, highwayman to highwayman, knight to knight)."

"You (red) place a tile with the Shield crop circle and place one of your meeples on it as a knight. You choose action A. Each player may place a knight next to one of their knights. [7]
The green player adds another knight.
The blue player has no knights in play, and does nothing.
You place another knight next to the one you placed earlier in the turn. You could not have chosen the city on the upper-left side of the tile, because you did not already have a knight there. (You could also have deployed the knight next to your knight in the upper left corner. [8])"

Can you place the red meeple on the "A" tile?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 25, 2020, 02:18:47 PM
(58).
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 25, 2020, 03:35:30 PM
57. "You may not place a meeple on a Volcano tile." But on a Volcano tile where is not placed the dragon? Can you place a meeple on that tile (Princess and the Dragon#The portal, The flier etc.)?

Yes, you can deploy a meeple on the volcano tile with a magic portal or flying machine once the dragon moves away from it.

When placing the tile, no meeple is allowed on it as the dragon is placed on the tile and would eat it right away. Once the dragon leaves the tile, it behaves as a normal tile and you can deploy meeple to it by other means.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_dragon:_volcano_and_dragon_symbols_.5B3.5D (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_dragon:_volcano_and_dragon_symbols_.5B3.5D)

58. "If A was chosen, you may only place the meeple in a feature where at least one of your indicated meeples is already present (farmer to farmer, highwayman to highwayman, knight to knight)."

"You (red) place a tile with the Shield crop circle and place one of your meeples on it as a knight. You choose action A. Each player may place a knight next to one of their knights. [7]
The green player adds another knight.
The blue player has no knights in play, and does nothing.
You place another knight next to the one you placed earlier in the turn. You could not have chosen the city on the upper-left side of the tile, because you did not already have a knight there. (You could also have deployed the knight next to your knight in the upper left corner. [8])"

Can you place the red meeple on the "A" tile?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12473;image)

No, you cannot do it. A crop circle allows you to deploy a meeple right next to another of your meeples, that is, on the feature and same tile.

The rules by HiG are quite clear about this but ZMG messed up a bit the translation and, instead of indicating the meeple was deployed next to another on the feature, they just said to deploy on the same feature, relaxing the constraints. Nevertheless, the original examples where maintained showing the outcome of the original rules.

Check the updated rules and the footnotes on the mistakes in translation here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 25, 2020, 05:50:32 PM
59. The Mesages: Message 8: Can you return a meeple placed on a tower?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 25, 2020, 11:49:39 PM
59. The Mesages: Message 8: Can you return a meeple placed on a tower?
Thanks!

Those are two different actions that can be performed in that order if the right conditions take place:
1. Message 8 is dispatched in any scoring round taking place in 1. Placing a Tile, and, as a result you remove a given meeple.
2. You place the same meeple on a tower in 2. Placing a Meeple.

If you check what scoring rounds may take place in each round here, you'll see that these action sequence may happen with a dispatch triggered by the fairy, the Wheel of Fortune or a wind rose tile:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

EDIT: Sorry. Misread your question while replying on the move. My new answer below.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 26, 2020, 02:48:22 AM
60. Here says that you do not receive a message if you receive 3 points for a tower (You may buy back any one of your imprisoned meeples by paying the captor 3 points. ROBBERS),  3 points for fairy (If a fairy is next to a meeple in the completed feature, that meeple’s owner receives 3 points. (If the fairy is next to an acrobat when the pyramid is scored, each acrobat in the pyramid gets these bonus points.) ROBBER CHOICE), for watchtower (Perform watchtower scoring for completed roads or cities for you and any other players with meeples on a watchtower (no majority applied.) ROBBER CHOICE), for toolhouses (Perform tollhouse scoring for completed roads for you and any other players ROBBER CHOICE), for bonus points (Tally points and award points to the controlling player(s) ROBBER CHOICE
Base score
Inns
Cathedrals
Abbey
Barn
Shrines
Vineyards
Mage
Witch
Gardens
German castles
German monasteries (with monk)
Dutch & Belgian monasteries (with monk)
Japanese buildings (with monk)
Labyrinths
Markets of Leipzig bonus
Bathhouses), for ringmaster (Each player scores his or her ringmaster, if placed on a completed feature (no majority is considered.) ROBBER CHOICE) and for bazaar (Perform an auction. ROBBERS). It is a mistake?

(59): I wanted to know if you can remove the red meeple from the image with the eighth message.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Murphy013 on February 26, 2020, 03:00:48 AM
Regarding 59:

No, you can’t remove a meeple from a closed tower with message 8. you Must score a Meeple to return it to your supply with message 8. a meeple on a closed tower can’t score points.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 26, 2020, 04:22:24 AM
61. Which is the correct order?
a) 1. You move the fairy. 2. You score the acrobat pyramid.
b) 1. You score the acrobat pyramid. 2. You move the fairy.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Murphy013 on February 26, 2020, 04:49:40 AM
Regarding 61:

Option a: scoring is always the last step in a turn
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 26, 2020, 06:11:26 AM
62. "Shrine tiles cannot be placed adjacent to more than one monastery, and monasteries cannot be placed adjacent to more than one shrine", even if the monastery or shrine is/are unoccupied or the monastery or shrine is/are occupied by you?
63. What happens in a challenge, if the shrine and the monastery are occupied by you?
64. Can you score 2 or more pyramids in the same turn?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on February 26, 2020, 04:48:53 PM
It’s good to have questions but... why cannot you use WICA????  ???
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 27, 2020, 12:35:34 AM
It’s good to have questions but... why cannot you use WICA????  ???

Come one! Don't be like that. Some questions are great!... And some of them come from reading WICA too... So don't be so grumpy, this is a great proofreading exercise that helps improve it.

I'm having a great time.  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 28, 2020, 02:33:13 AM
60., 62., 63., 64.?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Murphy013 on February 28, 2020, 02:45:59 AM
64: what do you mean with pyramid? If you mean a shrine then is there no difference to any other finished feature. It will be scored.
63: you get the points of the feature that wins the challenge
62: it doesn’t matter who occupied the shrine
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 28, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
Pyramid (ext. 10 "Under the Big To").
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 28, 2020, 12:13:37 PM
(59): I wanted to know if you can remove the red meeple from the image with the eighth message.

Regarding 59:

No, you can’t remove a meeple from a closed tower with message 8. you Must score a Meeple to return it to your supply with message 8. a meeple on a closed tower can’t score points.

That is right! The tower is an independent feature that cannot be scored, so Message 8 does not affect it.

For more information, check this clarification:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#cite_note-3 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#cite_note-3)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 28, 2020, 03:32:55 PM
60. Here says that you do not receive a message if you receive 3 points for a tower (You may buy back any one of your imprisoned meeples by paying the captor 3 points. ROBBERS),  3 points for fairy (If a fairy is next to a meeple in the completed feature, that meeple’s owner receives 3 points. (If the fairy is next to an acrobat when the pyramid is scored, each acrobat in the pyramid gets these bonus points.) ROBBER CHOICE), for watchtower (Perform watchtower scoring for completed roads or cities for you and any other players with meeples on a watchtower (no majority applied.) ROBBER CHOICE), for toolhouses (Perform tollhouse scoring for completed roads for you and any other players ROBBER CHOICE), for bonus points (Tally points and award points to the controlling player(s) ROBBER CHOICE
Base score
Inns
Cathedrals
Abbey
Barn
Shrines
Vineyards
Mage
Witch
Gardens
German castles
German monasteries (with monk)
Dutch & Belgian monasteries (with monk)
Japanese buildings (with monk)
Labyrinths
Markets of Leipzig bonus
Bathhouses), for ringmaster (Each player scores his or her ringmaster, if placed on a completed feature (no majority is considered.) ROBBER CHOICE) and for bazaar (Perform an auction. ROBBERS). It is a mistake?

Short answer:The Order of Play shows Step 3B: Resolve Completed Features happens several times to score each completed feature. You can see ROBBERS or ROBBER CHOICE actions but no MESSAGES action. This is correct. What you didn't notice is that you score everything first and, when you are done (you have a MESSAGES action after the looped section), you check if at least one of your scoring figures (meeple or messenger) has ended on a dark space of the scoreboard. If so, you will get a Message.

The general view was okay, but devil is in the details and when replying your answer I came across several issues I wanted to address before answering your question.



Long answer:
This is going to be a long answer... You kept me busy for a few days revisiting everything at hand: the rules on WICA, the CAR, the original rules in German and English, and the exiting clarifications... And you will ask why.

Why this reply took so long...

Well, since I wanted to find a "source" for my answer, I revisited the clarifications about Messages from 5/2014 and 10/2014. And I found this sentence part of the question sent to HiG that they replied without denying any of part of it:

Quote
The rules for the Messages refer to “scoring rounds,” as all features scored in one “scoring round” are counted together, and only at the end of a “scoring round” is it determined if a follower is on a dark space.

(Original post here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1113.msg13390#msg13390 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1113.msg13390#msg13390))

Oh my! This was not reflected in the CAR explicitly and hence it wasn't in WICA either! The Order of Play the CAR was complying 95% with it (Maybe by chance?) But the addition of new C2 features adding new scoring events helped to break the level of compliance: the Abbot, the Fruit Bearing Trees, the Acrobats, the Ringmasters, The Big Top,...

(I'm not considering the mistranslation by HiG that removed from the C2 rules the reference to rounds of scoring and blurred the solution provided by HiG, since I transported all this from the C1 rules in the CAR no matter what.)

So, what did I do? Well, with this new piece of information I applied the following updates to WICA:
1. Review and consolidation of the C2 Mini #2 - Messages rules: completed and updated section "Rounds of Scoring" and removed the consolidated footnotes.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages)

2. Review of the C1 Mini #2 - Messages rules: updated section "Rounds of Scoring" to keep up with the C2 expansions and updated the footnotes as required (following the CAR approach)

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages_(1st_edition))

3. Updated the Order of Play in the Reference sections accordingly.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)



The implications of the change

The definition of the rounds of scoring stays the same (I keep the numbering to allow you to cross-reference with WICA:
* 1A: Beginning of turn - 1 or more (for acrobats) scoring events (Fairy)
* 1B: After drawing tile, before placing tile - multiple chained scoring events (Wheel of Fortune)
* 1C: After drawing and placing tile - 1 possible scoring event (Wind Roses)
* 2: End of "move wood" phase - multiple scoring events from various features [ (Remove Abbot / Acrobat Pyramid ) + (Flock action) + (Fruit-Bearing Tree) ]
* 3: End of Scoring phase - multiple scoring events from various features [ (Features and/or bonuses) x N + (Big Top) + (Gingerbread Man) ]
* 4: End of turn - 1 possible scoring event (Catapult)

Rounds 1A, 1B, 1C and 4 haven't changed: One expansion generates scoring events and the Message is received right after all of them are scored.

Round 2 and 3 have been affected by the addition of the C2 expansions (it also was missing some flock actions with possible Messages in the CAR). These rounds of scoring have some additional C2 events that require to move the MESSAGES action to the very end of the associated phases.

Example: You place a tile next to a garden with your abbot meeple. The tile also expands a field with your shepherd. So you decide to:
1. Remove and score your abbot.
2. Guide your flock to the stable.
So you have two scoring events in this case. As per the rules (and the clarification above), you will have to score each of them separately and once done, you will check if you receive a Message.



And the answer is...

This deferred handling of the MESSAGES action in round of scoring (#3) is correct. But to comply with the clarification above it would be required to do it at the very end of the phase so additional actions such as the Big Top and the Gingerbread Man where also scored before checking for a Message.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 28, 2020, 03:38:44 PM
61. Which is the correct order?
a) 1. You move the fairy. 2. You score the acrobat pyramid.
b) 1. You score the acrobat pyramid. 2. You move the fairy.

Regarding 61:

Option a: scoring is always the last step in a turn

Sorry to dissent. Neither option is valid.

Moving the fairy and scoring an acrobat pyramid cannot happen on the same turn:

* The fairy can be moved if no meeple is placed. See here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_5)

* An acrobat pyramid can be evaluated if no meeple is placed. See here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature_2)

You may check the Order of Play too (after selecting expansions 3 and 10 at least):

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 28, 2020, 03:54:43 PM
62. "Shrine tiles cannot be placed adjacent to more than one monastery, and monasteries cannot be placed adjacent to more than one shrine", even if the monastery or shrine is/are unoccupied or the monastery or shrine is/are occupied by you?

62: it doesn’t matter who occupied the shrine

This placement is not allowed in order to avoid problematic situations involving features participating in multiple challenges at the same time.

The following house rule addresses this case, suggesting something similar to your idea:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#House_rules_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#House_rules_2)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on February 28, 2020, 10:53:29 PM
It’s good to have questions but... why cannot you use WICA????  ???

Come on! Don't be like that. Some questions are great!... And some of them come from reading WICA too... So don't be so grumpy, this is a great proofreading exercise that helps improve it.

I'm having a great time.  ;D
It made me laugh when I got to this point in the thread!  ;D (I've just read it all. Quite a lot of it in skim mode, I'll admit.) It made me laugh not least because I thought something similar to DrMeeple when I was part way through the thread.

Meepledrone is right of course, there is so much joy to be had in proofreading! I'm serious, that's how I came up with all my recent suggestions for edits!

One question though for Carcassonne93, what's the context for your questions? How come you have so many all at once? Have you just inherited/bought a huge Carcassonne collection and you're starting from scratch? Or are these all the questions you've ever had over the years and you've only found CarcassonneCentral.com / WikiCarpedia? Maybe you could tell us your story by making a post over in Meet The Members (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?board=21.0)?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 28, 2020, 11:10:50 PM
63. What happens in a challenge, if the shrine and the monastery are occupied by you?

63: you get the points of the feature that wins the challenge

You can trigger a challenge between a monasteries and a shrine occupied both by you. As Murphy013 replied already, You will get the points from the winning feature.

The rules contemplate consider this case:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 28, 2020, 11:11:00 PM
64. Can you score 2 or more [acrobat] pyramids in the same turn?

No, you can only score one acrobat pyramid per turn.

You can revisit the acrobat pyramid scoring here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature_2)

As a result, you may not perform any of the following actions:
* Place a meeple (except the phantom) or special figure
* Remove a figure from the board:
   - Score your abbot
   - Remove a meeple trapped in a Russian Promo tile
   - Remove a figure with a Festival tile
* Place neutral figures or tokens:
   - Place a tower floor
   - Place a little building
   - Move the fairy
   - Place or move a tollhouse token 

On the other hand, after scoring the acrobat pyramid and removing all the acrobats in it, you could deploy the phantom as an acrobat if the tile just placed is adjacent to the acrobat pyramid you just scored.

Check the Order of Play for full details:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 28, 2020, 11:23:02 PM
It’s good to have questions but... why cannot you use WICA????  ???

Come on! Don't be like that. Some questions are great!... And some of them come from reading WICA too... So don't be so grumpy, this is a great proofreading exercise that helps improve it.

I'm having a great time.  ;D
It made me laugh when I got to this point in the thread!  ;D (I've just read it all. Quite a lot of it in skim mode, I'll admit.) It made me laugh not least because I thought something similar to DrMeeple when I was part way through the thread.

Meepledrone is right of course, there is so much joy to be had in proofreading! I'm serious, that's how I came up with all my recent suggestions for edits!

One question though for Carcassonne93, what's the context for your questions? How come you have so many all at once? Have you just inherited/bought a huge Carcassonne collection and you're starting from scratch? Or are these all the questions you've ever had over the years and you've only found CarcassonneCentral.com / WikiCarpedia? Maybe you could tell us your story by making a post over in Meet The Members (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?board=21.0)?

My current theory is he bet a few beers with some friends that he could ask 93 questions about Carcassonne. ;)

I'm curious and amazed too.  :(y)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: wolnic on February 29, 2020, 02:22:43 AM
Could it be an alter ego of you know who, from the Christmas quiz?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 29, 2020, 03:00:10 AM
Ha ha ha!

So true! I was thinking of a different type of quiz for the next Advent Calendar...  >:D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on February 29, 2020, 03:21:58 AM
One question though for Carcassonne93, what's the context for your questions? How come you have so many all at once? Have you just inherited/bought a huge Carcassonne collection and you're starting from scratch? Or are these all the questions you've ever had over the years and you've only found CarcassonneCentral.com / WikiCarpedia? Maybe you could tell us your story by making a post over in Meet The Members (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?board=21.0)?

My current theory is he bet a few beers with some friends that he could ask 93 questions about Carcassonne. ;)

I'm curious and amazed too.  :(y)
My bet is that the 93 is a year of birth.
I still can't imagine how one could amass so many questions at once.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on February 29, 2020, 02:48:44 PM
1. “The rules for the Messages refer to “scoring rounds,” as all features scored in one “scoring round” are counted together, and only at the end of a “scoring round” is it determined if a follower is on a dark space.”
2. Q: “32.  The Messages: In the same turn: You have the meeple on 0. You score a city with 10 points. Now you have the meeple on 10. Then, you score 2 points for a road. Now you have the meeple on 12. Do you receive a message tile?”

A: “Yes, the idea of the scoring round and using two scoring figures is that maximize your odds to land on a dark space. In this case, your regular scoring round comprises the scoring of two features. The order you follow to score them grants you one landing on a dark space. Once you finish the scoring round you receive a message and proceed with it, maybe landing on a new dark space and receiving another message.“

Which is the correct answer?


Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on February 29, 2020, 04:26:05 PM
1. “The rules for the Messages refer to “scoring rounds,” as all features scored in one “scoring round” are counted together, and only at the end of a “scoring round” is it determined if a follower is on a dark space.”
2. Q: “32.  The Messages: In the same turn: You have the meeple on 0. You score a city with 10 points. Now you have the meeple on 10. Then, you score 2 points for a road. Now you have the meeple on 12. Do you receive a message tile?”

A: “Yes, the idea of the scoring round and using two scoring figures is that maximize your odds to land on a dark space. In this case, your regular scoring round comprises the scoring of two features. The order you follow to score them grants you one landing on a dark space. Once you finish the scoring round you receive a message and proceed with it, maybe landing on a new dark space and receiving another message.“

Which is the correct answer?

Quote
1. “The rules for the Messages refer to “scoring rounds,” as all features scored in one “scoring round” are counted together, and only at the end of a “scoring round” is it determined if a follower is on a dark space.”

This is the missing piece of the clarification from 10/2014. It is correct.

You score all the features in a scoring round and you will see at the end if you receive a message, that is, at least one your scoring figures ended up on a dark space.

Quote
2. Q: “32.  The Messages: In the same turn: You have the meeple on 0. You score a city with 10 points. Now you have the meeple on 10. Then, you score 2 points for a road. Now you have the meeple on 12. Do you receive a message tile?”

Let's assume that your scoring meeple and your messenger are on 0.

As per the "latest" clarifications, if you score the 12 points (10+2) with the same scoring figure, you won't get a message.

In order to get a message you should score 10 points with your scoring meeple and 2 with your messenger or vice versa. If so, one of your scoring figures would end up on a dark space and you would receive a message.

Quote
A: “Yes, the idea of the scoring round and using two scoring figures is that [you] maximize your odds to land on a dark space. In this case, your regular scoring round comprises the scoring of two features.

As per the "latest" clarifications, this hasn't changed.

Quote
The order you follow to score them grants you one landing on a dark space.

This would require an update: "The order you follow and the combination of scoring figures used to score them grants you one landing on a dark space."

Quote
Once you finish the scoring round you receive a message and proceed with it, maybe landing on a new dark space and receiving another message.“

The bottomline is that you will have to combine the use your scoring meeple and your messenger in a way that:
A) You order the scoring of your features in order to land on a dark space as frequently as possible...
B) If A) happens at the end of the scoring, you are done and you'll receive your message. 
C) If A) happens in the middle of scoring several features, you will secure your message by scoring the remaining features with your other scoring figure.

Does this all make sense to you?

Hope this helps!
, if one of them lands on a dark space, you will keep one on a dark space and count with the other the rest of the points.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Swiggan on March 01, 2020, 03:12:29 PM
Hi everyone - first time poster and I apologize for hijacking this thread a bit (it's been a fascinating read!) but I noticed something from Meepledrone that seems like it contradicts the current Order of Play on WICA:


(34): The robber receive 2 or 9 nine points?

If the robber is next to the scoring meeple of the player scoring the road and the fairy points, the robber would get 9 points for the road. The 2 points from the fairy bonus would be scored later once the robber is removed.

If the robber is next to the player scoring the castle (different from the one scoring the road), the robber would get the 9 points scored for the castle.

The normal order of scoring would be:
1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
    - Inns (for roads)
    - Cathedrals (for cities)
    - Mage and Witch (for road and cities)
    - Little Buildings (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Bathhouses (for roads and cities)
    - Labyrinths advanced rules (for roads)
    - German Castles (for road and cities)
    - Darmstadtium (for cities)
    - Vineyards (for monastic buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt churches (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)

If present, a robber may steal any of these points.

If multiple features are scored with the placement of one single tile, the player receiving the points decided the order they will be awarded, as indicated here (this is important so robbers get the least points  ;)):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-7 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-7)


I totally agree with keeping "bonuses" separate from "features" when it comes to determining how many points a castle is worth (I'm actually glad to read it, I saw another post from sometime last year that had the fairy, Leipzig, etc. bonuses factored into castle scoring and it threw me for a loop!) But the Order of Play has the 3-point fairy bonus coming in before the feature points are tallied, instead of after. Here it says it comes after points are scored, which could affect which points a robber gets to steal. Maybe that's something that's in the works to be updated on WICA, but it just struck me as an potential contradiction.

Again, sorry for derailing things a bit. Thank you!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 01, 2020, 03:38:29 PM
 This tile.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Whaleyland on March 02, 2020, 12:18:05 AM
This tile.

Not sure what the question is. It's a Garden surrounded by four separate Cities. Those Cities can stay separate or be combined, just like any other Cities. The Garden can be claimed by the Abbot or not, just like any Garden. The Field could also be claimed with a maximum of four Cities surrounding it.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 02, 2020, 06:00:35 PM
Hi everyone - first time poster and I apologize for hijacking this thread a bit (it's been a fascinating read!) but I noticed something from Meepledrone that seems like it contradicts the current Order of Play on WICA:


(34): The robber receive 2 or 9 nine points?

If the robber is next to the scoring meeple of the player scoring the road and the fairy points, the robber would get 9 points for the road. The 2 points from the fairy bonus would be scored later once the robber is removed.

If the robber is next to the player scoring the castle (different from the one scoring the road), the robber would get the 9 points scored for the castle.

The normal order of scoring would be:
1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
    - Inns (for roads)
    - Cathedrals (for cities)
    - Mage and Witch (for road and cities)
    - Little Buildings (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Bathhouses (for roads and cities)
    - Labyrinths advanced rules (for roads)
    - German Castles (for road and cities)
    - Darmstadtium (for cities)
    - Vineyards (for monastic buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt churches (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)

If present, a robber may steal any of these points.

If multiple features are scored with the placement of one single tile, the player receiving the points decided the order they will be awarded, as indicated here (this is important so robbers get the least points  ;)):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-7 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-7)


I totally agree with keeping "bonuses" separate from "features" when it comes to determining how many points a castle is worth (I'm actually glad to read it, I saw another post from sometime last year that had the fairy, Leipzig, etc. bonuses factored into castle scoring and it threw me for a loop!) But the Order of Play has the 3-point fairy bonus coming in before the feature points are tallied, instead of after. Here it says it comes after points are scored, which could affect which points a robber gets to steal. Maybe that's something that's in the works to be updated on WICA, but it just struck me as an potential contradiction.

Again, sorry for derailing things a bit. Thank you!

Hi Swiggan,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your first post.

As you have pointed out there is a discrepancy between the rules and the Order of Play. After a first review, I have updated Step 3B:
* Moving the fairy bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Moving the Markets of Leipzig bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Moving the Darmstadt church bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Added a note about the points scored by a castle or a teacher.

Do you find it more clear now?

Thank you for your help.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Swiggan on March 03, 2020, 03:53:29 AM

Hi Swiggan,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your first post.

As you have pointed out there is a discrepancy between the rules and the Order of Play. After a first review, I have updated Step 3B:
* Moving the fairy bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Moving the Markets of Leipzig bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Moving the Darmstadt church bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Added a note about the points scored by a castle or a teacher.

Do you find it more clear now?

Thank you for your help.

Cheers!

Hi Meepledrone - Indeed! I just wasn't sure if that was something that was already planned to be updated or not, but I thought it was worth a mention. Thanks for all the effort that you and everyone else put in to this, it's appreciated!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 03, 2020, 05:00:13 AM
What happens with a wagon placed in a castle?
Is the sheep field a feature? (Do you receive gold ingots after shepherd's/acrobat pyramid's scoring )?
Can you place a gold ingot on an abbey?
Can you fly on an abbey?
Can you place the farmer on this (image) tile?
Message 8: You (red) have a normal meeple in a city. Blue has 2 normal meeples in the same city. Can you score this city (and receive 0 points)?
Message 8: "Score a Meeple and Return it to your Supply". Just "a meeple"?
Your meeple is on 10. You pay 3 points. Your meeple is on 7. You receive 3 points from a road. Your meeple is on 10. Do you receive a message?
Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you have only the tollkeeper on a road, and on that road there is a blue meeple (you cose the road)?
"Wainwrights quarter: Each road that is scored with your majority, you get 1 bonus point for each tile." What hapens if you have a tollkeeper?
Can you receive points from the tollkeepers with a castle?
Do you receive gold ingots with the castle?
Can you move a meeple from City of Carcassonne in an unoccupied feature that is scored by a castle?
The Fruit-Bearing Trees: Can you harvest with the meeple and sell with the phantom?
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-7 ? This "cite" says that you can remove a meeple from a tower or castle?
The Watchtowers: "2 points for each meeple" and "1 point for each tile showing at least one part of a city". What happens in a case of a castle?
Can you place the tollkeeper if you remove a knight with the Princess
Can you place the tollkeeper and move/place the fairy in the same turn?
Can you place simultaneously with the phantom one these meeples: big meeple, wagon, mayor, ringmaster, abbot?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 03, 2020, 10:59:16 AM

Hi Swiggan,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your first post.

As you have pointed out there is a discrepancy between the rules and the Order of Play. After a first review, I have updated Step 3B:
* Moving the fairy bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Moving the Markets of Leipzig bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Moving the Darmstadt church bonus after tallying the points for the feature
* Added a note about the points scored by a castle or a teacher.

Do you find it more clear now?

Thank you for your help.

Cheers!

Hi Meepledrone - Indeed! I just wasn't sure if that was something that was already planned to be updated or not, but I thought it was worth a mention. Thanks for all the effort that you and everyone else put in to this, it's appreciated!

Hi Swiggan,

There is always room for improvement and I appreciate your interest. I don't think the WICA reference pages are the most popular but they summarize a lot of useful info when playing a several expansions: the order of play, scoring in detail, figure dos and don'ts... So comments and feedback are always most welcome.  ;D

Cheers!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on March 03, 2020, 12:47:50 PM
Ooh! Ooh!! I know some of these ... Take a rest meepledrone ...

What happens with a wagon placed in a castle?
Minimal disruption. A castle in a wagon on the other hand, absolute carnage.

Is the sheep field a feature?
No, it's a bug.

Can you fly on an abbey?
No.

Can you place the farmer on this (image) tile?
He certainly looks familiar, but no, I can't place him.

Can you place the tollkeeper if you remove a knight with the Princess.
The situation doesn't arise. Never give up a night with the Princess.

Thank you. I thank you.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 03, 2020, 01:09:10 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on March 03, 2020, 01:13:39 PM
Thanks!
:yellow-meeple:

Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Normal meepledrone service will be resumed shortly.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 03, 2020, 05:05:44 PM
Hi Carcassonne93,

I haven't forgotten. I was preparing my reply before you re-posted this batch of question. Just been busy.

See more answers here... I just numbered your questions to allow you to refer to them easily if needed.

Cheers!

PS: @cicerrunner Normal service restored .  ;D
Ha ha ha!!!

[65.] What happens with a wagon placed in a castle?

You can place a wagon in a castle when converting a completed small city into a castle. There is no written rule or clarification stating that after scoring the castle you may move the wagon to an adjacent unoccupied feature.

So far we can assume the wagon will score the castle and the player will remove it.

You may define a house rule to move it to any unoccupied feature in the castle fief but, this is not official.

[66.] Is the sheep field a feature? (Do you receive gold ingots after shepherd's/acrobat pyramid's scoring )?

No, the flocks of sheep are not a feature that can be completed. The sheep are associated to one or more shepherds in a field. All the shepherd/flock actions happen in phase 2. Placing a Meeple after extending a field (with the special case when closing a filed with the shepherd). All the completed feature scoring and distribution of gold ingots to players happen in phase 3. Scoring a Feature, unrelated to shepherd actions.

You can revisit the rules here:
* Flock actions: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile)
* Gold ingot actions:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#3._Scoring_a_feature)

[67.] Can you place a gold ingot on an abbey?

Yes, you can place a gold ingot on an abbey. In the case the sequence would be:
1. A player places the abbey in a space of the board surrounded by at least one tile on each side. At least one corner of the abbey is empty.
2. Later a player (the same or another one), places a Goldmine tile adjacent diagonally to the abbey (on any of the corners still empty)
3. The same player places a gold ingot on the Goldmine tile and another on the adjacent abbey tile.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#1._Placing_a_tile)

[68.] Can you fly on an abbey?

Yes, you can fly a meeple onto an incomplete abbey, the same as onto any incomplete claimable feature but a field.

You can review the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier)

[69.] Can you place the farmer on this (image) tile?

This tile.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12493;image)

Not sure what the question is. It's a Garden surrounded by four separate Cities. Those Cities can stay separate or be combined, just like any other Cities. The Garden can be claimed by the Abbot or not, just like any Garden. The Field could also be claimed with a maximum of four Cities surrounding it.

Yes, you can place a farmer in the field touching the four city segments. Whaleyland said it all. 

[70.] Message 8: You (red) have a normal meeple in a city. Blue has 2 normal meeples in the same city. Can you score this city (and receive 0 points)?

Yes, you can score the city even if you score 0 points and remove your meeple. You can also score 2 points instead and remove no meeple.

So, as you can see, this could be a way to remove a meeple early from a feature you can't control before it is scored when completed or to remove a meeple blocked in a feature that can't be completed.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[71.] Message 8: "Score a Meeple and Return it to your Supply". Just "a meeple"?

Yes, you can score and remove just a meeple, as the rules state.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[72.] Your meeple is on 10. You pay 3 points. Your meeple is on 7. You receive 3 points from a road. Your meeple is on 10. Do you receive a message?

Yes, if it the last scoring in your round of scoring. The following scenario matches this situation:

1. Your scoring meeple in on apace 10. In this case the position of your messenger is unimportant.
2. At the beginning of your turn, you buy back one trapped meeple captured by another player's tower. You pay 3 points. Your scoring meeple move back to space 7.
3. Now you score 3 points for a completed road. Your scoring meeple moves to space 10 and you receive a message.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages)

[73.] Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you have only the tollkeeper on a road, and on that road there is a blue meeple (you cose the road)?

This is a very good question.

There is no official clarification about this interaction. The rules talk about:
* Completing a feature for another player
* Scoring no points from the completed feature

If so, the example you describe in your question you should score no points for the tollhouse as well as for the city to be allowed to send a meeple to the City of Carcassonne.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne)

[74.] "Wainwrights quarter: Each road that is scored with your majority, you get 1 bonus point for each tile." What hapens if you have a tollkeeper?

The Toollkeeper bonus is evaluated before scoring the road. The Wainwrights district bonus of the Markets of Leipzig would be applied after scoring the city.

The normal order of scoring would be:
1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
    - Tollhouses  (if the player's tollhouse is on a crossroads connected to road(s) being scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
    - Inns (for roads)
    - Cathedrals (for cities)
    - Mage and Witch (for road and cities)
    - Little Buildings (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Bathhouses (for roads and cities)
    - Labyrinths advanced rules (for roads)
    - German Castles (for road and cities)
    - Darmstadtium (for cities)
    - Vineyards (for monastic buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt churches (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)

[75.] Can you receive points from the tollkeepers with a castle?

A tollkeeper scoring is triggered by the completion of a road ending at the crossroads with the tollhouse token. The bonus points are scored by the owner of the tollhouse, who may or may not be the same player as the owner of the tollhouse. This means that the tollhouse is not part of the feature but a bonus assigned to the owner of the token.

Therefore, being a bonus for a player not associated to a feature, it won't trigger the castle scoring.

The normal order of scoring would be:
1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
    - Tollhouses  (if the player's tollhouse is on a crossroads connected to road(s) being scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
    - Inns (for roads)
    - Cathedrals (for cities)
    - Mage and Witch (for road and cities)
    - Little Buildings (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Bathhouses (for roads and cities)
    - Labyrinths advanced rules (for roads)
    - German Castles (for road and cities)
    - Darmstadtium (for cities)
    - Vineyards (for monastic buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt churches (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)

[76.] Do you receive gold ingots with the castle?

Yes, you can receive gold ingot from a castle.

You can find some examples here:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=279.msg2148#msg2148 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=279.msg2148#msg2148)

[77.] Can you move a meeple from City of Carcassonne in an unoccupied feature that is scored by a castle?

Yes, you can redeploy a meeple from the City of Carcassonne to an unoccupied feature overlapping a castle fief. One one remark: the completion of the feature overlapping the fief is the trigger for a castle to be scored.

The order of events would be as follows (let's assume you have a meeple in the castle district and you complete a city):
1. You complete an unoccupied city overlapping a castle fief. Its castle is incomplete and the completion of the city will trigger the castle scoring too.
2. Before scoring, you decide to move one meeple from the castle district in the City of Carcassonne. Now you you have the majority in the completed city.
3. You score the completed city and remove your meeple in the city.
4. The castle owner scores the castle and gets the same points as the city right after the city in its fief.

You can revisit the rules here:
* Moving a meeple to the city of Carcassonne: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne)
* Scoring a castle:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Scoring_a_castle (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Scoring_a_castle)

[78.] The Fruit-Bearing Trees: Can you harvest with the meeple and sell with the phantom?

Yes, you could do this as per the interpretation of the rules but no official clarification is available in this regard.

See this clarification for more info:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#cite_note-2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#cite_note-2)

[79.] http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-7 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-7) ? This "cite" says that you can remove a meeple from a tower or castle?

Message 8 tells you to select a meeple, score it as if at the end of the game and return the selected meeple to its owner's supply. Incomplete features such as a castle will score zero points. The meeple on a tower scores nothing as well.

[80.] The Watchtowers: "2 points for each meeple" and "1 point for each tile showing at least one part of a city". What happens in a case of a castle?

Castles are not cities, they are a different feature, so they are not considered.

[81.] Can you place the tollkeeper if you remove a knight with the Princess

You can a place a tollhouse token in a crossroads if no meeple is placed.
You can remove a knight with a Princess tile if you do not place a meeple. Remove a knight will not allow you a place a phantom either.

You can revisit here the rules:
* Placing a tollhouse token: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple)
* Removing a knight with a Princess tile:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_3 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_3)

[82.] Can you place the tollkeeper and move/place the fairy in the same turn?

You can place a tollhouse token in a crossroads if no meeple is placed.
You can place/move the fairy if you do not place a meeple.

These options cannot take in the same turn.

You can revisit here the rules:
* Placing a tollhouse token: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple)
* Placing/moving the fairy:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_5)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 04, 2020, 02:59:32 AM
"[80.] The Watchtowers: "2 points for each meeple" and "1 point for each tile showing at least one part of a city". What happens in a case of a castle?

Castles are not cities, they are a different feature, so they are not considered." But what happens with "2 points for each meeple"? The meeples from the castle are placed between 2 tiles.

"[81.] Can you place the tollkeeper if you remove a knight with the Princess

You can a place a tollhouse token in a crossroads if no meeple is placed.
You can remove a knight with a Princess tile if you do not place a meeple. Remove a knight will not allow you a place a phantom either.

You can revisit here the rules:
* Placing a tollhouse token: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple
* Removing a knight with a Princess tile: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_3

Quote from: Carcassonne93 on March 03, 2020, 05:00:13 AM
[82.] Can you place the tollkeeper and move/place the fairy in the same turn?

You can place a tollhouse token in a crossroads if no meeple is placed.
You can place/move the fairy if you do not place a meeple.

These options cannot take in the same turn.

You can revisit here the rules:
* Placing a tollhouse token: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple
* Placing/moving the fairy: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_5"

But here (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) says "Step 2B-1: Move the Wood (Phase 1)

Skip this step if you removed a knight with a princess symbol."

Can you remove the tollkeeper with the festival?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on March 04, 2020, 05:55:12 AM
... I just numbered your questions to allow you to refer to them easily if needed.
Plus of course we are all waiting to see what happens after question 93.
Title: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 04, 2020, 12:50:16 PM
... I just numbered your questions to allow you to refer to them easily if needed.
Plus of course we are all waiting to see what happens after question 93.

There’s no problem for me if he wants to ask whatever he wants but I’m only curious about if it endures forever? It will be question number 1000?? Who knows...


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 04, 2020, 01:38:10 PM
"[80.] The Watchtowers: "2 points for each meeple" and "1 point for each tile showing at least one part of a city". What happens in a case of a castle?

Castles are not cities, they are a different feature, so they are not considered." But what happens with "2 points for each meeple"? The meeples from the castle are placed between 2 tiles.

There is no official rules about this interaction but paying attention to how other expansions interact with castles (or figures not located on a particular tile, such as the barn), we could draw a reasonable conclusion: The watchtower scoring considers figures or feature segments located on tiles (either the watchtower tile or the 8 adjacent tiles). Since castles are not placed on a particular tile, watchtowers would not consider them.

You can revisit the Watchtower scoring rules here (I added a couple of clarifications):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature)

"[81.] Can you place the tollkeeper if you remove a knight with the Princess

You can a place a tollhouse token in a crossroads if no meeple is placed.
You can remove a knight with a Princess tile if you do not place a meeple. Remove a knight will not allow you a place a phantom either.

You can revisit here the rules:
* Placing a tollhouse token: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple
* Removing a knight with a Princess tile: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_3

No, you cannot place a tollhouse token if you remove a knight with a Princess tile as per the restrictions commented above.

(Oops, I omitted this sentence in my previous response).

Quote from: Carcassonne93 on March 03, 2020, 05:00:13 AM
[82.] Can you place the tollkeeper and move/place the fairy in the same turn?

You can place a tollhouse token in a crossroads if no meeple is placed.
You can place/move the fairy if you do not place a meeple.

These options cannot take [place] in the same turn.

You can revisit here the rules:
* Placing a tollhouse token: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple
* Placing/moving the fairy: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2._Placing_a_meeple_5"

But here (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) says "Step 2B-1: Move the Wood (Phase 1)

Skip this step if you removed a knight with a princess symbol."

Was question 82 independent from question 81?
* Question 82 is independent: move fairy + place tollhouse token --> You cannot move the fairy and place the tollhouse token.
* Question 81 is connected to 82: remove knight with princess tile + move fairy + place tollhouse token --> removing a knight will not allow you to move the fairy or to place a tollhouse token.

Were you thinking of another scenario?

[83.] Can you remove the tollkeeper with the festival?

Thanks!

Tollhouse tokens cannot be removed from the board. Tollhouse tokens can only be moved from one crossroads to another one. Additionally, the Festival can only remove figures.

You can revisit the respective rules here:

1. The rules specify: "Having placed your tollhouse, it stays in the game until the end. You'll never take it back to your supply."
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple)

2. The rules
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Festival#Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Festival#Placing_a_meeple)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 04, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
"After placing a tile, the player may deploy the phantom to it as a second follower (on a second feature). [3] [4] Thus, in one turn the player may deploy two followers [5] [6] [7] [8] to two different features of the tile he or she just placed." Just a normal meeple?
Can you remove a meeple from a castle with the Message 8 or with the Festival?
"1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
    - Tollhouses  (if the player's tollhouse is on a crossroads connected to road(s) being scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
    - Inns (for roads)
    - Cathedrals (for cities)
    - Mage and Witch (for road and cities)
    - Little Buildings (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Bathhouses (for roads and cities)
    - Labyrinths advanced rules (for roads)
    - German Castles (for road and cities)
    - Darmstadtium (for cities)
    - Vineyards (for monastic buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt churches (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)"
The German Castle itself (not the road or the city from the double-tile) is scored by the castle?
"B. C1 & C2 (official one - by HiG & ZMG): The dragon moves between phases 2. Placing a Meeple and 3. Scoring a Feature, that is, right after all the actions associated to placing a meeple take place and before scoring any figures." Here (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon) says "Exp. 4 - The Tower: Placing a tower piece happens after moving the dragon."
Who receive the points for the watchtower if in a city or road scored by a watchtower there are:
a) 1 red meeple and 1 blue meeple;
b) 2 red meeples and 1 blue meeple.
These points (the 8 ringmaster points, not the 5 road points) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature_3) are scored separately or together?
What happens after the drawing off all 8 messages? The pile is re-mixed?
Do you receive gold ingots with the Garden?
How many points do you score at the end of the game for a bathhouse?
Can you receive gold ingots for an unoccupied monastery scored by Leipzig or a castle (if the gold ingots are placed outside of the castle's area)?
"Exp. 6 - Count, King and Robber: You can place one meeple from the city of Carcassonne on a hill tile with a feature that has not been completed. If you do, you gain the benefit of the hill." Only one meeple?
Can you move the wagon on an unoccupied and unfinished feature in a turn in which you move the Wagon from the City of Carcassonne?
Do you receive points from a castle if in that castle is placed the mayor (and under the castle is placed this -image- tile)?
"After scoring, you may return the wagon to your supply, or you may move it to a directly adjacent unoccupied, incomplete feature (road, city, monastery, etc.). " After all "scorings" from step 3. Scoring a feature?
You are on 0. You receive 3 points. After bazaar, you lose 3 points. Do you receive message?
Can you place/move the mage/witch in a feature unoccupied?
Can you place/move the mage in a feature occupied by other player?
Can you place/move the witch in a feature occupied by you?
"(1) Shortest Road: Choose a road on which you have a highwayman (you do not need to control the road). If you have a highwayman on more than one road, you must choose the road that would be worth the fewest points. Determine the chosen road's score as you would during final scoring, and you score that many points. Your highwayman remains on the road.
 
(2) Smallest City: The same as Message 1, but for cities, instead of roads.
 
(3) Smallest Monastery: The same as Message 1, but for monasteries [2] [3] [4] [5], instead of roads."

It means that you can receive points for a road/city/monastery in which you do not have the majority?
Example A: On a 3-tile road there are 1 red meeple and 2 blue meeples. If you are the red player, can you score 3 points for this road with the Message 1?
Example B: On a 3-tile city (without Coat Of Arms) there are 1 red meeple and 2 blue meeples. If you are the red player, can you score 6 points for this city with the Message 2?
Example C: On a 4-tile monastery there are 1 red meeple and 1 big meeple. If you are the red player, can you score 4 points for this monastery with the Message 3?
You play with red. You finish a monastery occupied by blue. You have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter. Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?
You play with red. You finish a city (that contains a Coat Of Arms) occupied by blue. You have a meeple in the Coiners quarter. Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?
"Bookbinders quarter: Each monastery that is completed (which may be scored by you, other players, or nobody [7]) you get 4 bonus points [8]." "Monastery" means also Abbey, shrine or monastery from Germany? If the answer is yes, what happens in a challenge (monastery and shrine)?
"If a tile is placed that causes multiple features that are neighboring your castle to be completed at the same time, you decide what order they are scored. As always, you only score points for the first feature." You decide or the player who place the tile? But if the feature is unoccupied, who decide?
What happens if you place the second tile for a castle, and that tile close in the same time an occupied road? Can you place the castle and before score the road? In this case, you receive (with the castle) the points of the road? But what happens if the road is unoccupied?
The pigsty form River II counts as a normal pigsty in The Markets of Leipzig and The Tollkeepers?
Who receive the points for the watchtower? The meeple placed on the watchtower tile? What happens if there are 2 or more meeples on the watchtower (and if there are 1 red meeple and 1 blue big meeple)?
What happens with a wagon placed on a Castle in Germany tile?
What happens if there are 2 tollkeepers on the same road?
"If you use a tile to extend an open road leading to a ferry, you may now (if necessary after placing a meeple) reposition this ferry on its tile." What happens if you use a tile to extend an open road leading to a jetty?
Do you receive points with the barn for the Tanners quarter?
The Coat Of Arms is for tile or for city segment?
"If one or more players have not placed their abbey when the last landscape tile is drawn and placed, they may still do so, in clockwise order starting from the left of the person who placed the last tile, as long as it is in accordance with the rules." Can you receive 1 point from the fairy/a message, remove the abbot, score a pyramid etc. in this turn?
When you place during the game an Abbey, you have a normal turn?
Can the player A and B to place their robber on player C?
You (red) place a tile that complete a road occupied by blue, a city occupied by green and a monastery occupied by you. Who decide the order of scoring?
(66): Do you receive gold ingots after acrobat pyramid's scoring?
Message 8: Can you score a meeple from a pyramid (even it contains 1, 2 or 3 meeples)?
Can you remove a meeple from a pyramid with the Festival (even it contains 1, 2 or 3 meeples)?
What happens in a challenge if the heretic or the monk is eaten by dragon, and the shrine or the monastery is surrounded by 9 tiles?
What happens if you lose 3 points (you are on -3) and receive later 3 points (in the same turn)?
Can you use the portal to place a meeple as abbot in a Monastery from Germany?
Can you remove and score an abbot placed as an abbot?
Message 8: Can you remove any of the meeple placed on the used tiles?
Can you (red) capture a blue meeple which is placed on a tower?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 05, 2020, 08:06:47 AM
This tile.
Can you place a farmer on this tile?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 07, 2020, 01:18:21 PM
And more and more answers...  ;D

[84.] "After placing a tile, the player may deploy the phantom to it as a second follower (on a second feature). [3] [4] Thus, in one turn the player may deploy two followers [5] [6] [7] [8] to two different features of the tile he or she just placed." Just a normal meeple?

Just in case, follower (used in C1) = meeple (used in C2).

A phantom behaves a normal meeple with special placement rules. It can be deployed as a normal meeple or as a second meeple to any meeple (normal meeple, large meeple, abbot, mayor, wagon, ringmaster).

As a side note, The Phantom is originally a C1 expansion but it can be used seamlessly in C2, since it contains no tiles. C2 rules make no reference to them so far, so we base its interactions on the existing rules and clarifications for C1.

Please check Step 2B-1 of the Order of Play to see all actions you can do before placing a phantom, if any. You can also check Step 2B-2 for all the options you have when placing a phantom. Remember that both steps will be omitted if you remove a knight with a princess tile.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

Note: In order to see all possible options, please go to tab Filters and select all the editions in box "Show Editions" and then go to tab "Quick Selectors" and click on button "Select All."

[85.] Can you remove a meeple from a castle with the Message 8 or with the Festival?

There is no limitation in the rules to do that. If you have a meeple in a castle, that means the castle would be incomplete. Thus you will get 0 points for the feature but you may get some points from some figure-related bonuses such as:
* The 3-point fairy bonus, if the fairy is assigned to the castle lord.
* The ringmaster bonus, if your ringmaster is the castle lord.

You may revisit the Mini #2 - Messages rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[86.] "1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
    - Tollhouses  (if the player's tollhouse is on a crossroads connected to road(s) being scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
    - Inns (for roads)
    - Cathedrals (for cities)
    - Mage and Witch (for road and cities)
    - Little Buildings (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Bathhouses (for roads and cities)
    - Labyrinths advanced rules (for roads)
    - German Castles (for road and cities)
    - Darmstadtium (for cities)
    - Vineyards (for monastic buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt churches (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)"
The German Castle itself (not the road or the city from the double-tile) is scored by the castle?

Yes, the German castle as any completed feature by a tile placement will trigger a castle scoring.

If we add the features to the previous list of bonus and features, you would have:

1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
    - Tollhouses  (if the player's tollhouse is on a crossroads connected to road(s) being scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
   - Roads (+ German cathedrals + inns + mage + witch + little buildings + German castles + bathhouses + labyrinth)
   - Cities (+ Cathars / siege / besiegers + cathedrals  + cathedrals + mage + witch +little buildings + German castles + bathhouses + Darmstadtium)
   - Monastic Buildings (+ vineyards + little buildings)
      - Monasteries
      - Abbeys
      - Shrines
      - German monasteries (with a monk)
      - Dutch & Belgian monasteries (with a monk)
      - Japanese buildings (with a monk)
      - Darmstadt churches
    - Field with barn (cities / castles + pig + pig-herd + Cathars / siege / besiegers + little buildings )
    - Baba Yaga's Hut (+ little buildings)
    - Gardens (+ little buildings)
    - German castles (+ little buildings)
    - German cathedrals (+ inns + little buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt church bonus (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)

Check the following pages for more information:
* Order of Play (updated Step 3B): http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
* Scoring During the Game:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game)

[87.] "B. C1 & C2 (official one - by HiG & ZMG): The dragon moves between phases 2. Placing a Meeple and 3. Scoring a Feature, that is, right after all the actions associated to placing a meeple take place and before scoring any figures." Here (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon) says "Exp. 4 - The Tower: Placing a tower piece happens after moving the dragon."

Oopps! The tower piece is placed before moving the dragon.

The sentence about the tower wasn't updated accordingly when the dragon movement was updated for C2.

You can verify it is corrected now here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon)

[88.] Who receive the points for the watchtower if in a city or road scored by a watchtower there are:
a) 1 red meeple and 1 blue meeple;
b) 2 red meeples and 1 blue meeple.

The watchtower bonus goes to each meeple placed on a watchtower tile on the feature being scored (road or city). Majority in the feature has nothing to do with watchtower scoring. 

Check the scoring rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature)

[89.] These points (the 8 ringmaster points, not the 5 road points) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature_3) are scored separately or together?

The 8 points (4 circus/acrobat tiles x 2 points/tile) for the ringmaster bonus are scored together. You will score the 5 points for the road first and then the 8 ringmaster points.

All figure/token-related bonus applied during scoring behave like this as the player(s) controlling the feature may not be the one(s) getting the bonus. For example:
* Watchowers: the meeple(s) on the watchtower may not have the majority on the road or city.
* Tollhouses: the tollhouse may not belong to the player scoring a road.
* 3-point fairy scoring bonus: the meeple(s) getting the fairy bonus may not have the majority on the feature
* Teacher bonus: the player with the teacher does not have to be the one scoring the feature providing the points.
* Ringmaster points: the ringmaster may not have the majority on the feature being scored.
* Darmstadt church bonus: the player scoring a Darmstadt church may not have the majority in the vicinity of the feature.
* Markets of Leipzig: provided by the meeple in the associated Leipzig quarter
   - bonus for roads: some player(s) scoring the road may be getting the bonus too.
   - bonus cities: the player(s) scoring the city and getting the bonus may differ.
   - bonus for monastic buildings: the player(s) getting the bonus may not even be present on the feature when scored
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 07, 2020, 01:22:02 PM
And more answers... YES!

[90.] What happens after the drawing off all 8 messages? The pile is re-mixed?

The message tile is placed facedown at the bottom of the stack as per the rules (Check the sentence after the two bullets):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#3._Scoring_a_feature)

[91.] Do you receive gold ingots with the Garden?

Yes, the same as for any other completed feature.

Check here for more details:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#cite_note-2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#cite_note-2)

[92.] How many points do you score at the end of the game for a bathhouse?

0 points. The rules only consider the bathhouse bonus points for completed roads and cities. Uncompleted roads and cities will not get any bathhouse points.

You can revisit the scoring rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#3._Initiate_scoring_with_bathhouse (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#3._Initiate_scoring_with_bathhouse)

[93.] Can you receive gold ingots for an unoccupied monastery scored by Leipzig or a castle (if the gold ingots are placed outside of the castle's area)?

I understand there are two questions here:
A. Can you receive gold ingots for an unoccupied monastery scored by Leipzig?
B. Can you receive gold ingots for a castle (if the gold ingots are placed outside of the castle's area)?

Let me know if I misunderstood your question. :)

Answer A: No, you will get no gold ingots for the monastery if you didn't occupy it. Unoccupied features will not distribute gold ingots when completed and scored as it has no controlling player(s) to take them.

On the other hand, Markets of Leipzig provides a bonus to players with a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter whenever a monastic building is scored. You may get this bonus from any completed monastery no matter who claimed it (even unclaimed, like in this case) but it has nothing to do with the distribution of gold ingots, directly related to the scoring of an occupied feature when completed.

You can revisit the rules for the Bookbinders quarter bonus here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_during_the_game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_during_the_game)

I also added a new clarifications on unclaimed features here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#cite_note-3 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#cite_note-3)

Answer B: Yes, castles con get gold ingots placed in their fief when scored, as indicated in a clarification from 6/2013. See here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#cite_note-1 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#cite_note-1)

[94.] "Exp. 6 - Count, King and Robber: You can place one meeple from the city of Carcassonne on a hill tile with a feature that has not been completed. If you do, you gain the benefit of the hill." Only one meeple?

No, you only can redeploy meeples from the City of Carcassonne to features being scored.

This means, that you may deploy a meeple from the City of Carcassonne to a completed city or road as usual but you can place the meeple on a tile with a hill belonging to the feature being scored. If so, the hill will break any possible ties during scoring.

The only special case is the redeployment of meeples to fields, where you can benefit from a hill when deciding the majority while scoring.

Please check the redeployment rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne)

[95.] Can you move the wagon on an unoccupied and unfinished feature in a turn in which you move the Wagon from the City of Carcassonne?

Yes, the sequence of actions would be as follows:
1. During scoring, you move the wagon from the City of Carcassonne to the feature being scored.
2. After the scoring of the feature is done, you decide to move the wagon to an adjacent unoccupied, unfinished feature.

Please check the Order of Play of more detail:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 07, 2020, 01:23:49 PM
What??? More questions ergo more answers!  ;)

[96.] Do you receive points from a castle if in that castle is placed the mayor (and under the castle is placed this -image- tile)?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12515)


No, even if the small city would have a coat of arms (like in the case), when converted to a castle, that coat of arms is not present on the castle itself so the mayor would score 0 points. Remember a castle is not a city anymore and will maintain any link to the city underneath the token.

This tile is not considered as a special case for castles in the rules of Abbey & Mayor, where it belongs:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#New_land_tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#New_land_tiles)

[97.] "After scoring, you may return the wagon to your supply, or you may move it to a directly adjacent unoccupied, incomplete feature (road, city, monastery, etc.). " After all "scorings" from step 3. Scoring a feature?

During your round of scoring, you will score each completed feature in turn and remove the meeples on it or, in case of one or more wagons involved, you may move them to adjacent incomplete, unoccupied features if possible. So you don't wait until the all the scoring is done to move the involved wagons; instead you move the wagons on each feature after scoring it, one feature at a time.

You can check the latest bullets of Step 3B (with all the expansions selected, bullet "s") in the Order of Play to see how wagons move:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

[98.] You are on 0. You receive 3 points. After bazaar, you lose 3 points. Do you receive message?

No, payments of points, as with bidding in a bazaar, do not count as a round of scoring (that is, no message can be dispatched as a result), so you cannot receive a message in this case.

Please check section "Rounds of scoring" here for full details:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

[99.] Can you place/move the mage/witch in a feature unoccupied?

Yes, there is no limitation in this regard. You place a tile with a magic symbol and you decide what to do with the mage or the witch. You may choose an empty feature and leave it as is or you may decide to occupy the empty feature after placing the mage, for example.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile)

[100.] Can you place/move the mage in a feature occupied by other player?

Yes, there is no limitation in this regard. You place a tile with a magic symbol and you decide what to do with the mage or the witch. Normally you will try to place the mage on one of your features and the witch on another player's feature but nothing limits you to do otherwise.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile)


[101.] Can you place/move the witch in a feature occupied by you?

Yes, there is no limitation in this regard. You place a tile with a magic symbol and you decide what to do with the mage or the witch. Normally you will try to place the mage on one of your features and the witch on another player's feature but nothing limits you to do otherwise.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch#1._Placing_a_tile)

[102.] "(1) Shortest Road: Choose a road on which you have a highwayman (you do not need to control the road). If you have a highwayman on more than one road, you must choose the road that would be worth the fewest points. Determine the chosen road's score as you would during final scoring, and you score that many points. Your highwayman remains on the road.
 
(2) Smallest City: The same as Message 1, but for cities, instead of roads.
 
(3) Smallest Monastery: The same as Message 1, but for monasteries [2] [3] [4] [5], instead of roads."

It means that you can receive points for a road/city/monastery in which you do not have the majority?

Yes, Messages 1, 2 and 3 do not consider the majority on the feature. You just need to have at least meeple on the feature.

[103.] Example A: On a 3-tile road there are 1 red meeple and 2 blue meeples. If you are the red player, can you score 3 points for this road with the Message 1?

If you are not present in any other smaller road, you would score 3 points. Bear in mind that message 1 doesn't require you to have the majority, so it does not matter other player's meeples.

You can review the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[104.] Example B: On a 3-tile city (without Coat Of Arms) there are 1 red meeple and 2 blue meeples. If you are the red player, can you score 6 points for this city with the Message 2?

If you are not present in any other smaller city, you would score 3 points. Bear in mind that message 2 doesn't require you to have the majority, so it does not matter other player's meeples. Remember that the message uses after-the-game scoring so you would score 1 point per city tile (and 1 point per coat of arms).

You can review the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 07, 2020, 01:25:15 PM
Is this the final batch? Who knows!  :o

[105.] Example C: On a 4-tile monastery there are 1 red meeple and 1 big meeple. If you are the red player, can you score 4 points for this monastery with the Message 3?

If you are not present on any other smaller monastery, you would score 4 points. Bear in mind that message 3 doesn't require you to have the majority, so it does not matter other player's meeples. In this case, if the large meeple belongs to another player it will be irrelevant.

You can review the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[106.] You play with red. You finish a monastery occupied by blue. You have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter. Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?

No, you would get 4 points from the Bookbinders quarter, so you won't be able to deploy a meeple to the City of Carcassonne.

You can review the rules for the Bookbinders quarter here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_during_the_game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_during_the_game)

[107.] You play with red. You finish a city (that contains a Coat Of Arms) occupied by blue. You have a meeple in the Coiners quarter. Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?

Yes, you can deploy a meeple to the City of Carcassonne as you would not score points when closing blue's city. Even if you have a meeple in the Coiners quarter, you need a meeple in a scored city with coats of arms to get the bonus.

The Coiners quarter could spoil your deployment of a meeple to the City of Carcassonne in a scenario like this, since you would get 3 points from the Coiners quarter:
* You play red.
* You finish a city (that contains a Coat Of Arms) occupied by blue's large meeple and one red normal meeple .
* You have a meeple in the Coiners quarter.

You can review the rules for the Coiners quarter here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_during_the_game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_during_the_game)

[108.] "Bookbinders quarter: Each monastery that is completed (which may be scored by you, other players, or nobody [7]) you get 4 bonus points [8]." "Monastery" means also Abbey, shrine or monastery from Germany? If the answer is yes, what happens in a challenge (monastery and shrine)?

There is no official clarification for this, but it seems reasonable that this bonus would apply to all monastic buildings: monasteries, abbeys, shrines, German monasteries, Dutch/Belgian monasteries, Japanese buildings, Darmstadt churches.

In case of a challenge, the completed feature(s) winning the challenge will provide de bonus: one of them (4 points), or both (8 points) if they are completed at the same time.

I added a clarification to WICA as a result of your question:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#cite_note-7 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#cite_note-7)

[109.] "If a tile is placed that causes multiple features that are neighboring your castle to be completed at the same time, you decide what order they are scored. As always, you only score points for the first feature." You decide or the player who place the tile? But if the feature is unoccupied, who decide?

The wording means that the player scoring the castle will decide what feature goes first, that is, the one scoring the highest. ;)

In case there are several castles with overlapping fiefs, you will have to pick the highest scoring feature of all the castle fiefs involved. In this case, all the castles will score the same. All the players involved will agree to it. ;) ;)

You can check this discussion toying with castle scoring here:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4298.msg64516#msg64516 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4298.msg64516#msg64516)

[110.] What happens if you place the second tile for a castle, and that tile close in the same time an occupied road? Can you place the castle and before score the road? In this case, you receive (with the castle) the points of the road? But what happens if the road is unoccupied?

You will turn the small city in a castle and you will score the road as usual, but the completion of the road won't trigger the scoring of the castle on this turn.

A castle cannot be created and scored in the same round of scoring. That means that any features completed in the same round of scoring as the castle is created will be scored as usual without triggering the castle scoring. Any feature in the castle fief scored in a later round of scoring will trigger the castle scoring.

Check the rules and the clarifications in this regard here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Scoring_a_castle (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Scoring_a_castle)

[111.] The pigsty form River II counts as a normal pigsty in The Markets of Leipzig and The Tollkeepers?

No, they are different features. Let me explain...

ZMG decided to rename the so called pig-herd in C1 to pigsty in C2. This is ambiguous and misleading as they are two different features:
* The River II pig-herd acts as a Traders & Builders pig spacial figure placed on a field (this "neutral printed pig" would benefit all the players with farmers in the field). It doesn't count as a pigsty for the Markets of Leipzig.
* The Carcassonne II pigsty included in field would affect the scoring of fields with Markets of Leipzig. It can't affect The Tollkepers as there is no road segment on the River II pig-herd tile (and it does not allow you to place a wooden bridge either).

I renamed "pigsty" to "pig-herd" in the C2 River II page in WICA to remove this ambiguity and added a clarification to address the issue. Check here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River#The_River_II_special_features (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River#The_River_II_special_features)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 07, 2020, 01:52:15 PM
The bathhouse is available for all 2 roads?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 07, 2020, 03:05:30 PM
[112][130.] The bathhouse is available for all 2 roads?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12522)

The tile shows the bathhouse connected to the horizontal road only, the vertical road does not benefit from the bathhouse.

EDIT: It seems you added more questions while I was working off-line on the answers for the last batch. I renumbered this answer to keep track of the proper order while working on the ones left behind.  :o
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 08, 2020, 07:50:40 AM
Is that a village?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 08, 2020, 09:03:14 AM
[131.] Is that a village?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12526)

No, it is not a village but a small house ending two roads. You can see a similar small house ending two roads on this other Hills & Sheep tile:
(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/8/89/Hills_And_Sheep_C2_Feature_Tile_02.png)

This other tile is included in the tile clarification section of the Hills & Sheep rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#New_land_tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#New_land_tiles)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 09, 2020, 10:48:10 AM
"Yes, the German castle as any completed feature by a tile placement will trigger a castle scoring.

If we add the features to the previous list of bonus and features, you would have:

1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
    - Tollhouses  (if the player's tollhouse is on a crossroads connected to road(s) being scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle
   - Roads (+ German cathedrals + inns + mage + witch + little buildings + German castles + bathhouses + labyrinth)
   - Cities (+ Cathars / siege / besiegers + cathedrals  + cathedrals + mage + witch +little buildings + German castles + bathhouses + Darmstadtium)
   - Monastic Buildings (+ vineyards + little buildings)
      - Monasteries
      - Abbeys
      - Shrines
      - German monasteries (with a monk)
      - Dutch & Belgian monasteries (with a monk)
      - Japanese buildings (with a monk)
      - Darmstadt churches
    - Field with barn (cities / castles + pig + pig-herd + Cathars / siege / besiegers + little buildings )
    - Baba Yaga's Hut (+ little buildings)
    - Gardens (+ little buildings)
    - German castles (+ little buildings)
    - German cathedrals (+ inns + little buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt church bonus (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)"

Th field is scored by the castle?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 09, 2020, 12:43:11 PM
Neverending stooooryyy nananananana  :))
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 09, 2020, 01:34:09 PM
"Yes, the German castle as any completed feature by a tile placement will trigger a castle scoring.

If we add the features to the previous list of bonus and features, you would have:

1. Score bonus points evaluated before the feature  -- Ignored by the castle
    - Watchowers (if the player has a meeple placed on the Watchtower tile of any road or city scored)
    - Tollhouses  (if the player's tollhouse is on a crossroads connected to road(s) being scored)
2. Score the feature including any modifiers and bonus points associated to the feature --- Scored by the castle (except fields with barns)
   - Roads (+ German cathedrals + inns + mage + witch + little buildings + German castles + bathhouses + labyrinth)
   - Cities (+ Cathars / siege / besiegers + cathedrals  + cathedrals + mage + witch +little buildings + German castles + bathhouses + Darmstadtium)
   - Monastic Buildings (+ vineyards + little buildings)
      - Monasteries
      - Abbeys
      - Shrines
      - German monasteries (with a monk)
      - Dutch & Belgian monasteries (with a monk)
      - Japanese buildings (with a monk)
      - Darmstadt churches
    - Field with barn (cities / castles + pig + pig-herd + Cathars / siege / besiegers + little buildings )
    - Baba Yaga's Hut (+ little buildings)
    - Gardens (+ little buildings)
    - German castles (+ little buildings)
    - German cathedrals (+ inns + little buildings)
3. Score bonus points evaluated after the feature -- Ignored by the castle
    - 3-point fairy scoring bonus (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Teacher bonus (if the player has the Teacher)
    - Ringmaster points (for roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
    - Darmstadt church bonus (if the player has the majority in the vicinity of the church)
    - Markets of Leipzig (bonus for roads, cities or monastic buildings, provided by the meeple in Leipzig)"

Th field is scored by the castle?

Good point... The exception wasn't included in the listing!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 09, 2020, 03:57:19 PM
Can you place a castle on this tile?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 10, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
[132.] Can you place a castle on this tile?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12531)

These city segments would not allow you to place a castle on top as they are larger than regular semi-circular city segments and would be partially visible under the castle token. 

Check the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Close_a_small_city_and_place_a_castle (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Close_a_small_city_and_place_a_castle)

Please read the following clarification as well:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_note-5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_note-5)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 10, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Carcassonne93 you should try to look wikicarpedia too. It’s a beautiful and useful place. :)


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 11, 2020, 04:11:06 AM
Wikicarpedia does not have the all answers. I ask something on Carcassonne Central after reading Wikicarpedia.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 11, 2020, 07:28:21 AM
I'm sorry to say there will be always be new questions and open issues: vague rules, nuances, new interactions, weird cases not considered before, mistranslations, details omitted due to lack of space in the printed manuals... What else can you ask for? ;)

Wikicarpedia tries to cover all that we know so far... And I'm happy to expand its coverage.

So, ask as much as you want, sometimes the answers are at everyone's fingertips... some others will require a bit of work. For example, finding a source to answer question 132 only took me two days of research...  :o


Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on March 11, 2020, 12:43:45 PM
So, ask as much as you want, sometimes the answers are at everyone's fingertips... some others will require a bit of work. For example, finding a source to answer question 132 only took me two days of research...  :o
I love this response MeepleDrone. What percentage of the questions in this thread have prompted an addition or edit to the WikiCarpedia would you say?

And aside from its impact on the quality of WikiCarpedia, this thread is one of the liveliest places in CarcassonneCentral at the moment (outside of the Workshops I guess). I just wish my experience of Carcassonne was as broad as yours and C93's so that I could appreciate more of what you are discussing.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 11, 2020, 03:05:08 PM
So, ask as much as you want, sometimes the answers are at everyone's fingertips... some others will require a bit of work. For example, finding a source to answer question 132 only took me two days of research...  :o
I love this response MeepleDrone. What percentage of the questions in this thread have prompted an addition or edit to the WikiCarpedia would you say?

Ha ha ha! Let me see...

* Exp. 3 - Princess and Dragon:
   - Review and additional info on dragon movement and dragon's menu/diet and interaction with The Tower.
* Exp. 4 - The Tower:
   - Note on meeples on top of a tower
* Exp. 6 - Count, King & Robber:
   - The River II for C2:
     - Renaming of "pigsty" (as in ZMG rules) to "pig-herd" as in C1 to avoid confusion with C2 pigsties in relation to Markets of Leipzig and Tollkeepers scoring.
* Exp. 8 -Castles, Bridges & Bazaars:
   - Addition of clarification for tiles allowed in a small city to become a castle
   - Addition of clarifications about when castle scoring may take place
* Mini #2 - The Messages:
   - Regrouping of info related to Rounds of Scoring
* Mini #4 - The Goldmines:
   - Addition of clarification for gold distribution and unclaimed features
   - Minor review of gold distribution when multiple features are involved
* The Watchtowers:
   - Addition of clarification about castles
   - Addition of clarification about monastic buildings
* Markets of Leipzig:
   - Addition of clarifications about monastic buildings

* Game Reference:
   - Treatment change for FFFF tile in GQ#11 so it is not a pig-herd tile (this is an official ruling; the use as pig-herd is a house rule)
   - Addition of redeployment of meeples in City of Carcassonne to other features in addition to fields for C1 (C2 only allows fields) at the end of the game.
* Order of Play:
   - Review of wording for Messages and rounds of scoring
   - Addition of individual steps for Dragon Movement and corrected misinterpretation of ZMG rules for C2 (Phases 2b and 3b)
   - Addition of more detailed info about features and bonus scoring (Step 3B)
   - Relocation of fairy bonus to correct placement (Step 3B)
   - Relocation of gold distribution to correct placement (Step 3B --> Step 3D)
* Scoring During the Game:
   - Review of scoring of the Big Top
   - Addition of ferry lakes to road scoring
   - Removal of icon of castle score trigger in fields with barns
* Scoring After the Game:
   - Review of scoring of the Big Top
   - Addition of ferry lakes to road scoring

Ohhh... It seems some parts benefited from an update so far

Can you see anything interesting? ;D

And aside from its impact on the quality of WikiCarpedia, this thread is one of the liveliest places in CarcassonneCentral at the moment (outside of the Workshops I guess). I just wish my experience of Carcassonne was as broad as yours and C93's so that I could appreciate more of what you are discussing.

I'm glad you are enjoying it too.

Broad experience? I just started reading the CAR cover to cover in August 2018...  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 11, 2020, 06:22:12 PM
Oops! This is a first bach of question left behind...

[112.] Who receive the points for the watchtower? The meeple placed on the watchtower tile? What happens if there are 2 or more meeples on the  watchtower (and if there are 1 red meeple and 1 blue big meeple)?

The meeple placed on the watchtower tile is the one receiving the points. The rules assume only one meeple on the watchtower tile, but you could use a flying machine, the city of Carcassonne or a crop circle to deploy more meeples. These interactions are not covered by the rules (and HiG won't be providing any clarifications as per the disclaimer in the rules).

Since the bonus goes to the meeple, no majority would be taken into consideration and each player would get the full bonus points for each meeple on the watchtower.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature)

[113.]What happens with a wagon placed on a Castle in Germany tile?

You score normally when the German castle is completed and then you may remove the wagon or move it to an uncompleted, unoccupied feature (other than a field) on the German castle tile itself or on any adjacent tile, if available.

You can revisit the rules, including clarification 18:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#Wagon (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#Wagon)

[114.]What happens if there are 2 tollkeepers on the same road?

When the road is completed, each toll keeper will score normally according to the usual rules. Although tollhouses are implemented tokens, the behave as a bonus associated to a figure, so they are evaluated individually, without taking into consideration majority on the feature.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Scoring_a_feature)

[115.] "If you use a tile to extend an open road leading to a ferry, you may now (if necessary after placing a meeple) reposition this ferry on its tile." What happens if you use a tile to extend an open road leading to a jetty?

You cannot change the ferry on that tile. In order to move a ferry, it has to be connected to the road you just extended.

Please check this clarification here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Ferries#cite_note-5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Ferries#cite_note-5)

[116.] Do you receive points with the barn for the Tanners quarter?

The Tanners quarter bonus is designed for fields at the end of the game, with the base game in mind. No official clarification addresses the interaction with barn in Abbey & Mayor. But the restrictions in the rules and knowing it was released way after Abbey & Mayor makes us think, this limitation was included on purpose in the rules. As of today, a house rule would be applied to allow fields with barns to benefit from the Tanners quarter bonus during the game.

Place check this clarification:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#cite_note-10 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#cite_note-10)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 12, 2020, 07:51:28 AM
More questions left behind...

[117.] The Coat Of Arms is for tile or for city segment?

Coats of arms are associated to the feature segment: city segment or the road segment in Carcassonne Maps. Therefore, coats of arms do not have a global effect on the tile.

This fact can be exploited in cases like this tile, where the the coat of arms only benefits one of the two city segments.

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/6/6e/Abbey_And_Mayor_C2_Tile_C.jpg)

Please check this clarification:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Base_game#cite_note-11 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Base_game#cite_note-11)

[118.] "If one or more players have not placed their abbey when the last landscape tile is drawn and placed, they may still do so, in clockwise order starting from the left of the person who placed the last tile, as long as it is in accordance with the rules." Can you receive 1 point from the fairy/a message, remove the abbot, score a pyramid etc. in this turn?

Placing the abbey should comply with the normal turn sequence and the rules for placing the abbey tile. So any action available during a normal turn placing the abbey instead of newly drawn tile should apply. There is no rule defining any additional restrictions.

The normal case would be to place and claim the abbey (and scoring it if possible) before final scoring, but other options could be possible instead of placing the meeple on the abbey tile.

So responding to your question, this last extra turn for players with their abbey tile still in their supply would allow them to score the 1-point fairy bonus, remove the abbot, score a pyramid, harvest a fruit bearing tree, place an acrobat and use the phantom to claim the abbey tile just placed, and any other action available for a normal turn.

Please check the following clarification about the extra round with abbey tiles, no restrictions are indicated:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#cite_note-5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#cite_note-5)

[119.] When you place during the game an Abbey, you have a normal turn?

If you can place the abbey tile as per the normal rules, you will have a normal turn just restricted to placing the abbey tile instead of a newly drawn tile. See previous response.

[120.] Can the player A and B to place their robber on player C?

Yes, multiple robbers can share the same space with one or more scoring figures from one or more players. You can see here a clarification example (the starting scenario and the link to the full explanation below) where two robbers share the same space with scoring figure from two players and the possible courses of actions players may take:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/5/5d/Robbers_C2_Example_04D.png)

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Example_.234 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Example_.234)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 13, 2020, 02:47:24 PM
And more questions left behind...

[121.] You (red) place a tile that complete a road occupied by blue, a city occupied by green and a monastery occupied by you. Who decide the order of scoring?

The active player, that is, you (Red), will be the one deciding the order of scoring when multiple features belonging to different players are scored.

This has been an open question for a long time, specially in relation to Robbers. So far, the clarifications addressed the case whereby one player had to score multiple features (deciding the order by himself/herself).

Allowing the active player to decide the scoring order of multiple features belonging to different players was suggested in some forum discussions but haven't been found in written rules until the release of "The Barber-Surgeons," where the scoring order is important the decide the occupation of free bathhouses by meeples involved in single-meeple scorings.

See here the last bullet in box "After Scoring a feature":
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#After_scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#After_scoring_a_feature)

In other expansions when multiple features are involved in a scoring other criteria are applied:
* Castle scoring: a player with a castle with multiple features in a castle fief completed by one tile placement was the one to select the feature the castle would receive points from. See the updated rules here to remove the mistranslation by ZMG and footnote #14 about it:

 
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_ref-14 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_ref-14)
 
* Teacher scoring: the player with the teacher would decide the feature to receive the points from if multiple features where completes by one tile placement; otherwise, if all the features belonged to the same player, such player would decide the evaluation order and the teacher would receive the points from the first one. See the clarification here:

 
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_School_(1st_edition)#cite_note-3 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_School_(1st_edition)#cite_note-3)

You can check the Order of Play to see all this together:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

(66): Do you receive gold ingots after acrobat pyramid's scoring?

The Goldmines rules refer to the completion of a tile-based feature (in German, Bauwerk in C1 = building, structure, or Gebiet in C2 = area, enclosure, territory) as a trigger to distribute gold ingots. So this would rule out acrobat pyramids.

Besides, acrobat pyramids are meeple-based features scored earlier, in phase 2. Placing a meeple. Gold ingots are distributed after scoring tile-based features in phase 3. Scoring a feature.

You can check the Order of Play to see all this:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 15, 2020, 04:26:16 AM
Can you place the shepherd on these tiles?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 15, 2020, 05:58:47 AM
And more questions left behind...

[122.] Message 8: Can you score a meeple from a pyramid (even it contains 1, 2 or 3 meeples)?

Message 8 allows you to pick a meeple on a feature, score it and remove it in the following context:
* Majority is considered
* Applying after-the-game scoring rules

The interaction with an acrobat pyramid hasn't been clarified. The interpretation of the Message 8 rules does not provide any limitation about this case:
* Majority is not an issue for acrobats and, since Messages is an expansion released earlier than Exp. 10 - Under the Big Top, they could not foresee that you would be a figure-based feature such as an acrobat pyramid in the feature.
* The scoring of individual acrobats matches the scoring rules for acrobats after the game.

There is no explicit mention of removing meeples from an acrobat pyramid but The Festival would allow you to remove one acrobat at a time (even from a completed pyramid), since there is no limitation for this: the dragon would be allowed to remove all the meeples in a completed or incomplete acrobat pyramid in any case.

Just for the sake of completeness, the fairy, if assigned to a particular meeple in the pyramid, would provide bonus points but after removing the meeple it was assigned to, the other acrobats would stop benefitting from the fairy bonus points... The fairy would be standing by the pyramid but it will only provide protection from the dragon.

So, Message 8 was created with tile-based features in mind but the rules contain no limitation in order to apply it to acrobat pyramids. Nevertheless, an official clarification would be required.

You can check the wording for Message 8 here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[123.] Can you remove a meeple from a pyramid with the Festival (even it contains 1, 2 or 3 meeples)?

As mentioned earlier, there is no explicit mention of removing meeples from an acrobat pyramid but The Festival would allow you to remove one acrobat at a time (even from a completed pyramid), since there is no limitation for this: the dragon would be allowed to remove all the meeples in a completed or incomplete acrobat pyramid in any case.

So, the rules don't contain anything to prevent a meeple to be removed from an acrobat pyramid no matter the number of meeples in it.

You can revisit The Festival rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Festival (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Festival)

[124.] What happens in a challenge if the heretic or the monk is eaten by dragon, and the shrine or the monastery is surrounded by 9 tiles?

During a challenge, if the monk or the heretic is eaten by the dragon (or removed by the action of any expansions), the challenge stops and the remaining figure will be scored as usual.

Check the clarifications provided here about the interaction of the dragon with a challenge.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2)

[125.] What happens if you lose 3 points (you are on -3) and receive later 3 points (in the same turn)?

If you ask this question with Mini #2 - The Messages and Mini #6 - The Robbers in mind, you may have different behaviors depending on the scoring events. The bottomline is that subtracting 3 points will not trigger any messages but scoring 3 points, depending on their origins, can trigger a message or not. Read on for a full detail... 

Regarding Mini #2 - The Messages and Mini #6 - The Robbers:
Case #1. Subtracting points (ransoming a captured meeple, buying back a meeple in a bathhouse or buying a tile in an auction) will not allow you to receive a message even if you land on a dark space. A robber on the same space as your scoring figure would move along with it (unless the robber's owner has the option to keep on the current space and decides so).
Case #2. Scoring points from features will allow you to receive a message if you land on a dark space. A robber on the same space as your scoring figure would steal points from it and the robber would be removed (unless the robber's owner has other options and decided accordingly).
Case #3. Scoring rogue points will allow you to receive a message if you land on a dark space. A robber on the same space as your scoring figure would move along with it (unless the robber's owner has the option to keep on the current space and decides so).
Case #4. Scoring points from selling a tile in an auction or from getting the ransom for a meeple captured by a tower will not allow you to receive a message even if you land on a dark space, as these scoring events do no define a round of scoring. A robber on the same space as your scoring figure would move along with it (unless the robber's owner has the option to keep on the current space and decides so).

As a side note:
* The Tower will not allow you to have a negative score to ransom a captured meeple
* A bazaar will allow you to have negative points as a result of buying tiles
* A Bathhouse will allow you to have a negative score to buy back your meeple.

You can revisit the rules here:
* The Messages (pay attention to section Rounds of Scoring): http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages)
* The Robbers (including the interactions with The Messages):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers)

[126.] Can you use the portal to place a meeple as abbot in a Monastery from Germany?

You can use a magic portal to deploy a meeple to an unoccupied German monastery. If you place the meeple as a monk or as an abbot is your choice. There is no restriction about this.

Please review the rules here. Please pay attention to the las two paragraphs in the 2. Placing a Meeple box:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#2._Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#2._Placing_a_meeple)

[127.] Can you remove and score an abbot placed as an abbot?

This interaction is not documented and there is no official clarification about it but, in any case, there is no rule preventing this to happen. Let me explain...

The Abbot rules are written assuming the abbot is placed as a monk and, when removing the abbot, it is scored as it would happen at the end of the game... If placed as a monk, this is not an issue and if placed as an abbot on a special monastery (German monastery, Dutch & Belgian monastery or Japanese building), the wording of the scoring rules would still apply, as the abbot placed as an abbot would comply with the scoring rules of special monasteries at the end of the game.

This said, an official clarification would be required but no contradiction is found in the rules not to allow you to remove and score an abbot placed as an abbot on a special monastery.

You can check the wording of this paragraph about scoring the abbot:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_ref-10 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_ref-10)

[128.] Message 8: Can you remove any of the meeple placed on the used tiles?

I didn't understand your question. What do you mean by "on the used tiles"?

Message 8 allows you to pick a meeple on a feature and score in the following context:
* Majority is considered
* Applying after-the-game scoring rules

So meeples on the Wheel Of Fortune, the City of Carcassonne or the City of Leipzig are excluded, as they are not placed on scoreable features.

You can check the wording for Message 8 here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[129.] Can you (red) capture a blue meeple which is placed on a tower?

Yes, this you can do it if the tower with the blue meeple is in range from the tower extended by red.

Please review the rules from the sentence starting with "Consequently,...", the Q&A box in grey and the following section "PLACING A MEEPLE ON A TOWER". The latter section indicates a meeple on a tower stays there until the end of the game or until is captured by another tower:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#cite_ref-2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#cite_ref-2)

Thanks!

You are welcome!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 15, 2020, 06:27:26 AM
[133.] Can you place the shepherd on these tiles?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12548)(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12549)(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12550)

There is no rule against doing so. In any case, this would be a special case of the special case (where the tile that you place already closes the inner field):
1. You place the shepherd on the inner field and perform the Grow the flock action.
2a. If you drew a wolf token, you remove your shepherd and return the wolf token to the drawstring bag.
2b. If you drew a sheep token, as the inner field is already surrounded by city walls and cannot extend it, then you have to perform the Guide the flock to the stable automatically: you score the sheep token you just drew, remove your shepherd and return the sheep token to the drawstring bag.

You can revisit the rules for the exception here and the Order of Play just in case:
* Hills & Sheep: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile)
* Order of Play:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: wolnic on March 15, 2020, 09:12:02 AM
And you could also place a farmer on those tiles ...
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 15, 2020, 09:50:51 AM
[134.] And you could also place a farmer on those tiles ...

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12548)(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12549)(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12550)

Absolutely. A field is a field is a field...

Those inner fields may be tiny but you can use them to get farmer points other players cannot share (only a magic portal could be used to deploy a farmer to the inner field if your farmer was previously removed, let's say, by the dragon :o).

For example, the inner garden on this tile. Its semi-circular city segments are too tempting for other players to score quick points.  >:D

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/9/9d/Inns_And_Cathedrals_C2_Tile_H.jpg)

Besides you have a garden in C2 as well. An abbot and a phantom farmer could score up to 21 points (9 points for the garden + 3 points * 4 cities) together. Only a castle would be able to score the 9 points for the garden.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on March 15, 2020, 03:39:38 PM
I've figured it out.
93 pages of questions.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 15, 2020, 03:49:53 PM
"So meeples on the Wheel Of Fortune, the City of Carcassonne," "the City of Leipzig", on a tower and on a bathhouse "are excluded, as they are not placed on scoreable features"?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 15, 2020, 04:55:56 PM
[(128.)] "So meeples on the Wheel Of Fortune, the City of Carcassonne," "the City of Leipzig", on a tower and on a bathhouse "are excluded, as they are not placed on scoreable features"?

Message 8 cannot be applied in these cases as you cannot score any of these meeples when placed on those features:
- Meeples on the crown of the Wheel of Fortune can be scored during the game after drawing a time. No WoF scoring happens at the end of the game.
- Meeples in the City of Carcassonne can move to a feature (road, city, monastic building or filed) being scored but they do not score points by themselves.
- Meeples in the City of Leipzig score bonus points associated to features being scored but those meeples do not score independently on their own.
- Meeples on towers cannot be scored.
- Meeples in bathhouses can be bought back during the game but not scored.

This is not written in the rules but it is a consequence from the mechanics in play.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 21, 2020, 05:41:59 AM
"After placing your tile, you now have 4 actions to choose from:
•You may place one of your meeples on the just-placed tile (following
the normal rules).
3 new actions:
•Place one of your tower floors on a tower
foundation space on any placed tile.
•Place one of your tower floors to any
open tower on the board.
•Place one of your meeples on any open
tower. This closes the tower."
After placing a normal tile or a tile from expansion 4 (The Tower)?
What happens if you place a tile and end a road occupied by blue, a city occupied by you and a monastery occupied by, and all 3 feature have gold ingots? You take 1 gold ingot or 2?
Can you move a wagon in a monastery of Germany and place it as an abbot?
"Exp. 1 - Inns and Cathedrals: The king does not score bonus points for a cathedral in a completed city." "The robber does not score bonus points for an inn on a completed road." That means that you do not receive 1 point for these cities and roads?
River II: In the first turn, the first player place just the fork? If you are the first player, can you place a meeple on fork? What is the position in which you must to place the fork? Do you mix the city lake tile with the river tiles?
"At the end of the game before final scoring, score the circus one last time." This circus scoring happens in the last turn or after the last turn?
Can a player receive 1 point from the fairy or receive a message tile when the player places the tile obtained from bazaar?
Player A host a bazaar auction. The tile obtained by player B is placed in player's A turn or in player's B turn?
Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you close a shepherd field and you receive 0 points?
Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you score a pyramid in which you do not have acrobats?
Can you remove a meeple from the City of Carcassonne or Markets of Leipzig with message 8?
Do you receive ringmaster points for messages 1, 2, 3 or 8?
You play with red. You finish an unoccupied monastery. Blue have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter. Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?
You play with red. You place a tile which complete a road occupied by you. If you place the builder on this tile, do you receive a double-turn?
You play with red. You place a tile in a road occupied by 1 red meeple, 1 blue meeple, 1 blue builder. Do you receive a double-turn?
What happens if you place a castle on a city which contains the mage/witch?
If you score an acrobat with the message 8, you score all 1, 2 or 3 acrobats?
What happens with the vineyards when you score during the game a monastery from Germany in which there is placed a meeple as abbot?
You have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter. In a monastery from Germany there is only one meeple placed as abbot. Later, the monastery from Germany is surrounded by 9 tiles. Do you receive 4 points?
Can you place the phantom and a normal meeple in a pyramid in the same turn?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 21, 2020, 09:40:46 AM
[135.] What happens if you place a tile and end a road occupied by blue, a city occupied by you and a monastery occupied by, and all 3 feature have gold ingots? You take 1 gold ingot or 2?

As gold ingot are associated placed on tiles, only players scoring features occupying those tiles will be entitled to gold ingots. Gold ingots will be distributed to entitled players in turn order starting from the active player.

Who is occupying the monastery? It is missing in your question.

If it is you, you may get two gold ingots if there are three different players involved, you probable will get only one gold ingot.

As indicated in the following clarification:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#cite_note-4 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Goldmines#cite_note-4)

Quote
In general, if one or more features are involved, the active player (if entitled to gold) chooses the first gold ingot and can choose any one of the ingots to which he/she may be entitled. The next player (in clockwise order) that is entitled to a gold ingot can then choose an appropriate ingot. Note that, because a player can choose which ingot to take first (if there is more than one to choose from), a different player who may have initially been entitled to a gold ingot may miss out if that ingot has been claimed before it is that player's turn to choose.

[136.] Can you move a wagon in a monastery of Germany and place it as an abbot?

There is no limitation in the rules to do so. I will mention here an analogous clarification about the flier and German monasteries, and you will see soon why:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=781.msg9971#msg9971 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=781.msg9971#msg9971)

In this post, Kettlefish recounts her conversation with Georg Wild (from HiG at the time). She didn't translate the conversation from German but it goes like this:

Quote
We had talked today about the flier and that it may land on areas that are already occupied (city, street and monastery).
I said "One good thing that usually does not mention monk (for meeple on the monastery), but only monastery."
Georg Wild then said: "Since the rule for the flier is older [than the German monastery], one did not know, as is well known, that one day a meeple could also be placed on the monastery (German monastery) as an abbot. So even if the rules would have specified "monk", this would not exclude the "abbot" on the German Monastery. So the flier can choose whether it lands on the German monastery as a monk or as an abbot."

Conclusion: If in an older expansion only mentions "monk", this does not exclude the "abbot" on the German Monastery.

Bearing all this is mind, my only consideration here is that meeples placed are monks and as abbots are not completely interchangeable in all contexts. We all know that feature completion and scoring makes them different:
* Meeple placed as a monk: it is scored when the feature is completed or at the end of the game if standing on an incomplete monastery.
* Meeple placed as an abbot: it is scored at the end of the game. They are not affected by the monastery being totally surrounded by tiles, for example.

We would have a special case with the abbot meeple, that would allow you to remove the abbot early and score it no matter if it placed as a monk or as an abbot.

In any case, after this digression, I would just add the wagons will follow the same reasoning given by Georg Wild, so they could be placed as abbots when redeployed to a German monastery (or similar special monastery: Dutch & Belgian monastery or Japanese building). If so, the the wagon will stay there until the end of the game unless, for example, removed by the dragon, captured by a tower, removed by the festival or removed/swapped by the catapult or La Porxada or trapped by a Vodyanoy tile.

[137.] "Exp. 1 - Inns and Cathedrals: The king does not score bonus points for a cathedral in a completed city." "The robber does not score bonus points for an inn on a completed road." That means that you do not receive 1 point for these cities and roads?

It is a rather weird way to say that completed cities with cathedrals and completed roads with inns just count as regular completed features (no extra bonus) when calculating the King and the Robber Baron bonus at the end of the game.

If you condense all the parts, you would have following rules for scoring the King and Robber bonus:

King:

If you have the King tile during final scoring, you gain 1 point per completed city (including the city of Carcassonne and the city of Leipzig, if you are playing with those tiles). Completed cities with a cathedral also provide 1 point (cathedrals do not affect the King bonus).

Robber:

If you have the Robber tile during final scoring, you gain 1 point per completed road. Completed roads with an inn also provide 1 point (inns do not affect the Robber bonus).

You can revisit the rules here:
* Basic rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#King_and_robber (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#King_and_robber)
* Interactions:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#King (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#King)

[138.] River II: In the first turn, the first player place just the fork? If you are the first player, can you place a meeple on fork? What is the position in which you must to place the fork? Do you mix the city lake tile with the river tiles?

There are several questions here:
* Placing the fork tile: The first player places the fork in any position. No matter the position, at least one of the branches will admit tiles normally. 
* Placing a meeple on the fork: The first player may place a figure or even a token as usual. In this case, it is possible to place:
   1. A meeple (no phantom) as a farmer or on the Wheel of fortune (if used), a shepherd with some sheep (if you don't draw a wolf) or a Little Building.
   2. A phantom as a farmer or on the Wheel of fortune (if used).
* The city tile with the lake: Yes, it is shuffled with the rest. You take the source, the for and the lake with the volcano. Shuffle the rest of River II tiles. Place the Source on the table, Place the other tiles face down with the volcano lake at the bottom and the fork at the top. The first player will draw the fork first thing.

You can revisit the rules here:
* River setup and placement: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River)
* Order of Play (you can check available options for phase 2. Place a Meeple):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

[139.] "At the end of the game before final scoring, score the circus one last time." This circus scoring happens in the last turn or after the last turn?

This action happens after the last turn before scoring. That means that if you perform an extra round for remaining abbeys, the big top will be scored afterwards. 

Please check here the wrap-up sequence before final scoring starts:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Game_Reference#Final_scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Game_Reference#Final_scoring)

[140.] Can a player receive 1 point from the fairy or receive a message tile when the player places the tile obtained from bazaar?

Turns with bazaar tiles are normal ones, the only difference is that you use the tile you bought at the auction instead of drawing one.

Please check this clarification:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_note-17 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_note-17)

[141.] Player A host a bazaar auction. The tile obtained by player B is placed in player's A turn or in player's B turn?

This is a good question.

The simple answer would be that all the the turns with purchased tiles take place as nested turns within player A's turn. A way to illustrate this is that the bazaar action may happen at the end of the first part of a double turn (the bazaar tile extended a road or city with player A's builder). In this case, after the bazaar is finished, all players place their purchased tiles in turn and, once they are done, player A would resume the second part of their double turn.

This may get more complicated with nested double turns by other players and or thanks to additional turns after receiving Message 4 or additional turns granted by the Saint Nicholas Scoreboard... or even more complicated with delayed bazaar auctions caused by tiles drawn in nested double turns... :o

You can taste a bit of this in the clarifications related to the interaction of the builder (mistranslations included  ???):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Bazaar_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Bazaar_2)

[142.] Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you close a shepherd field and you receive 0 points?

Curious question!

There are a number of factors involved here:
1. Closing a field is not completing a tile-based feature. You don't get points from a close field as a feature.
2. On the other hand, shepherds on fields are affected by closed fields and they cannot be trapped as per the rules: when closing a field with one or more shepherds, you automatically trigger the scoring if the shepherds and their shared flock by performing the "Guide Flock" action. This happens in phase 2. Placing a meeple
3. Additionally, deploying meeples to the city of Carcassonne happens in phase 3. Scoring a feature as a result of scoring a tile-based feature you completed but received no points from it. This means in order to send a meeple to the city of Carcassonne you need to complete a tile-based scoreable feature.

So this said, closing a field with a shepherd and getting 0 points for it does not allow you to send a meeple to the city of Carcassonne.

You can review the rules here:
* Sending a meeple to Carcassonne (I added restrictions defined by HiG but omitted/mistranslated by ZMG): http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne)
* Order of Play (to check the timing of shepherd associated actions):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

[143.] Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you score a pyramid in which you do not have acrobats?

The rationale for answering this is analogous to the one used for your previous question.

There are a number of factors involved here:
1. Completing an acrobat pyramid is not completing a tile-based feature
2. On the other hand, the scoring of acrobat pyramids is deferred one or more turns and happens in phase 2. Placing a meeple
3. Additionally, deploying meeples to the city of Carcassonne happens in phase 3. Scoring a feature as a result of scoring a tile-based feature you completed but received no points from it. This means in order to send a meeple to the city of Carcassonne you need to complete a tile-based scoreable feature.

So this said, scoring an acrobat pyramids and getting 0 points for it does not allow you to send a meeple to the city of Carcassonne.

You can review the rules here:
* Sending a meeple to Carcassonne (I added restrictions defined by HiG but omitted/mistranslated by ZMG):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne)
* Order of Play (to check the timing of shepherd associated actions):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

[144.] Can you remove a meeple from the City of Carcassonne or Markets of Leipzig with message 8?

The key point of Message 8 is that you score a feature where you may have the majority and remove a meeple from it. Meeples in the city of Leipzig are not placed on a scoreable feature of its own. Meeples in the city of Leipzig only entitle players to certain bonuses.

So Message 8 cannot affect meeples on the city of Leipzig. The city per se cannot be scored since the mechanics involve the city of Leipzig are not the usual ones for regular cities.

You can revisit the rules for Message 8 here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[145.] Do you receive ringmaster points for messages 1, 2, 3 or 8?

There is no clarification for this, but if we apply the same principle described in answer #136, if you score a ringmaster with Messages 1, 2, 3 or 8, you should do so.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 21, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 21, 2020, 02:32:32 PM
[146.] You play with red. You finish an unoccupied monastery. Blue have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter. Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?

Yes, you gained no points from the as the tile placement during phase 3. Scoring a feature and another player did.

You can revisit the rules to send a meeple to Carcassonne (I added restrictions defined by HiG but omitted/mistranslated by ZMG):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne)

[147.] You play with red. You place a tile which complete a road occupied by you. If you place the builder on this tile, do you receive a double-turn?

No. in order to get a double turn, you have to extend a city or road where the builder was placed in a previous turn.

However, if you complete a feature with your builder, you will get a a double turn even if you cannot extend the feature granting you the double turn.

You can revisit the builder rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders#1._Placing_a_Tile_and_Getting_a_Double_Turn (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders#1._Placing_a_Tile_and_Getting_a_Double_Turn)

[148.] You play with red. You place a tile in a road occupied by 1 red meeple, 1 blue meeple, 1 blue builder. Do you receive a double-turn?

No. you can only get a double turn if you intend a feature with your builder. Other builders are unimportant to you.

You can revisit the builder rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders#1._Placing_a_Tile_and_Getting_a_Double_Turn (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders#1._Placing_a_Tile_and_Getting_a_Double_Turn)

[149.] What happens if you place a castle on a city which contains the mage/witch?

You will remove the mage/witch from the city. They will have no effect as no scoring takes place when converting the small city into a castle.

You can check the rules for the castle conversion here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Close_a_small_city_and_place_a_castle (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Close_a_small_city_and_place_a_castle)

[150.] If you score an acrobat with the message 8, you score all 1, 2 or 3 acrobats?

This was something I was pondering when I replying to question #122, but Message 8 talks of scoring one of your meeples. Therefore you should stick to scoring one of your acrobats in a pyramid.

You can review the Message 8 rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[151.] What happens with the vineyards when you score during the game a monastery from Germany in which there is placed a meeple as abbot?

Vineyards only provide additional points to monastic buildings (monasteries, abbeys, shrines, German monasteries, Dutch & Belgian monasteries, Japanese buildings and Darmstadt churches) being scored during the game when completed.

You would not score additional points for vineyards when:
* You remove and score an abbot (placed as a monk or as an abbot) before the feature is completed
* You score a special monastery (German monasteries, Dutch & Belgian monasteries, Japanese buildings) at the end of the game

Just a reminder: gardens do not score extra points for vineyards no matter the case. Gardens and vineyards do not mix.

You can revisit the interactions of the abbot with Hills & Sheep here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#Vineyards_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#Vineyards_2)

[152.] You have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter. In a monastery from Germany there is only one meeple placed as abbot. Later, the monastery from Germany is surrounded by 9 tiles. Do you receive 4 points?

Yes, you would get the 4 points.

The rules for the Bookbinders quarter specify that you get the bonus when a monastery is completed, no matter who occupies it (you, other player or nobody). In this case, the presence of the meeple placed as an abbot is irrelevant and it would be like the monastery is unoccupied for the purpose of the bonus.

You can review the rules for the Markets of Leipzig here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_during_the_game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#Scoring_during_the_game)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 21, 2020, 03:13:31 PM
[153.] "After placing your tile, you now have 4 actions to choose from:
•You may place one of your meeples on the just-placed tile (following
the normal rules).
3 new actions:
•Place one of your tower floors on a tower
foundation space on any placed tile.
•Place one of your tower floors to any
open tower on the board.
•Place one of your meeples on any open
tower. This closes the tower."
After placing a normal tile or a tile from expansion 4 (The Tower)?

These four options, the regular one and the three additional ones provided when adding The Tower to your game, are available for all the tiles. This means that, instead of placing a meeple, you may place a tower floor on any tower tile already placed (on the tower foundation or on top of an existing tower) or you may place a meeple on top of an existing tower to cap it. 

Here you can revisit the rules:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor)

(135.) What happens if you place a tile and end a road occupied by blue, a city occupied by you and a monastery occupied by, and all 3 feature have gold ingots? You take 1 gold ingot or 2?

(136.) Can you move a wagon in a monastery of Germany and place it as an abbot?

(137.) "Exp. 1 - Inns and Cathedrals: The king does not score bonus points for a cathedral in a completed city." "The robber does not score bonus points for an inn on a completed road." That means that you do not receive 1 point for these cities and roads?

(138.) River II: In the first turn, the first player place just the fork? If you are the first player, can you place a meeple on fork? What is the position in which you must to place the fork? Do you mix the city lake tile with the river tiles?

(139.) "At the end of the game before final scoring, score the circus one last time." This circus scoring happens in the last turn or after the last turn?

(140.) Can a player receive 1 point from the fairy or receive a message tile when the player places the tile obtained from bazaar?

(141.) Player A host a bazaar auction. The tile obtained by player B is placed in player's A turn or in player's B turn?

(142.) Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you close a shepherd field and you receive 0 points?

(143.) Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you score a pyramid in which you do not have acrobats?

(144.) Can you remove a meeple from the City of Carcassonne or Markets of Leipzig with message 8?

(145.) Do you receive ringmaster points for messages 1, 2, 3 or 8?

(146.) You play with red. You finish an unoccupied monastery. Blue have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter. Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?

(147.) You play with red. You place a tile which complete a road occupied by you. If you place the builder on this tile, do you receive a double-turn?

(148.) You play with red. You place a tile in a road occupied by 1 red meeple, 1 blue meeple, 1 blue builder. Do you receive a double-turn?

(149.) What happens if you place a castle on a city which contains the mage/witch?

(150.) If you score an acrobat with the message 8, you score all 1, 2 or 3 acrobats?

(151.) What happens with the vineyards when you score during the game a monastery from Germany in which there is placed a meeple as abbot?

(152.) You have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter. In a monastery from Germany there is only one meeple placed as abbot. Later, the monastery from Germany is surrounded by 9 tiles. Do you receive 4 points?

This questions are repeated: check referenced answers #136-#152.

[154.] Can you place the phantom and a normal meeple in a pyramid in the same turn?

Yes, you can place a normal meeple as an acrobat and, as a second figure, a phantom as another acrobat on the same turn, according to the rules for phantoms.

You can check the Order of Play to explore all the possibilities for phantoms:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 21, 2020, 03:13:58 PM
Thanks!

You are welcome!!!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 21, 2020, 04:18:47 PM
"Yes, you can place a normal meeple as an acrobat and, as a second figure, a phantom as another acrobat on the same turn, according to the rules for phantoms." But Wikicarpedia says "After placing a tile, the player may deploy the phantom to it as a second follower (on a second feature)". On a 'second' feature; the same pyramid is not a second feature.
"Thus, in one turn the player may deploy two followers [5] [6] [7] [8] to two different features of the tile he or she just placed." That means that if you play with The Phantom, you can deploy two normal meeples in the same turn?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 21, 2020, 07:06:55 PM
[155.] "Yes, you can place a normal meeple as an acrobat and, as a second figure, a phantom as another acrobat on the same turn, according to the rules for phantoms." But Wikicarpedia says "After placing a tile, the player may deploy the phantom to it as a second follower (on a second feature)". On a 'second' feature; the same pyramid is not a second feature.

The deployment of the phantom as a second figure to a second feature comes from the default restrictions in the rules in order to occupy features: you cannot place a meeple to an occupied feature. This is one of the cornerstones of Carcassonne. However, this restriction is broken sometimes: you can use a flying machine, a crop circle or the city of Carcassonne to deploy meeples to features already occupied.

In their own right, acrobat pyramids break the standard occupancy rule by definition, since up to three meeples can occupy the same acrobat space in a non-exclusive way by "direct placement" (from the same tile or from an adjacent one). This relaxation of the occupancy rules may deem possible to deploy a phantom as a second figure to the same feature, provided it is an acrobat pyramid.

Check this clarification:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Phantom_(1st_edition)#cite_ref-12 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Phantom_(1st_edition)#cite_ref-12)

[156.] "Thus, in one turn the player may deploy two followers [5] [6] [7] [8] to two different features of the tile he or she just placed." That means that if you play with The Phantom, you can deploy two normal meeples in the same turn?

When playing with The Phantom you may deploy two meeples:
1. Firstly you may deploy a wooden meeple: normal meeple, large meeple, mayor, wagon, ringmaster or abbot.
2. Lastly you may deploy a phantom.

You can check the Order of Play to revisit all this:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 23, 2020, 05:36:22 PM
Which is scored first, at the end of the game? The meeples moved from the market district on a field with barn or the big top?
When do you resolve a message? If you receive 1 point for the fairy, you resolve a message between steps 1 and 2 or after step 4? If you receive points in step 2, you resolve a message between steps 2 and 3 or after step 4?
Which is the correct method?
a) 1. Your messenger is on 4. Your meeple is on 0. You receive a point for fairy (messenger on 5). 2. You receive 5 points for a garden (messenger on 10). You receive 5 points for flock (messenger on 15). You receive 5 points for a city (messenger on 20). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 2).
b) 1. Your messenger is on 4. Your meeple is on 0. You receive a point for fairy (messenger on 5). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 2). You receive 5 points for a garden (messenger on 10). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 4). You receive 5 points for flock (messenger on 15). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 6). You receive 5 points for a city (messenger on 20). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 8 ).
c) 1. Your messenger is on 4. Your meeple is on 0. You receive a point for fairy (messenger on 5). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 2). You receive 5 points for a garden (messenger on 10). You receive 5 points for flock (messenger on 15). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 4). You receive 5 points for a city (messenger on 20). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 6).
d) 1. Your messenger is on 4. Your meeple is on 0. You receive a point for fairy (messenger on 5). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 2). 2. You receive 5 points for a garden (messenger on 10). You receive 5 points for flock (messenger on 15). You receive 5 points for a city (messenger on 20).
Can you place and move a meeple in/from the city of Carcassonne in the same turn?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 24, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
[157.] Which is scored first, at the end of the game? The meeples moved from the market district on a field with barn or the big top?

At the end of the game, before you start with the final scoring, you will score the big top on its last location. After that, you will proceed with the scoring after the game.

You can see all the actions happening before the final scoring here (section 4. Final scoring), after selecting all the expansions interesting to you:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Game_Reference (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Game_Reference)

[158.] When do you resolve a message? If you receive 1 point for the fairy, you resolve a message between steps 1 and 2 or after step 4? If you receive points in step 2, you resolve a message between steps 2 and 3 or after step 4?

* When you get a message after scoring the 1-point fairy bonus at the start of your turn and you land on a dark space on the scoreboard, you resolve the message before drawing a tile, within phase 1. Placing a tile. See Round 1A below.
* When you score points in phase 2. Placing a meeple and land on a dark space, you resolve the message at the the end of phase 2. Placing a meeple, right before moving the dragon (if applicable) and before starting phase 3. Scoring a feature. See Round 2 below.

In general, there are up to 6 rounds of scoring that would allow you to resolve messages during your turn grouping one or more events happening at that point:

1. Placing a tile

* Round 1A - Beginning of turn (before drawing a tile):
   - Fairy point
* Round 1B - After drawing tile, before placing tile:
   - Wheel of Fortune actions
* Round 1C - After drawing and placing tile:
   - Wind rose 3 points

2. Placing a meeple

* Round 2 - End of “move wood” phase:
   - Abbot removal scoring
   - Shepherd after "Guide flock to the stable" action
   - Acrobat pyramid scoring
   - Fruit-bearing tree action

3. Scoring a feature

* Round 3 - Scoring phase:
   - Bonus scoring (pre): Watchtower, Tollhouse
   - Feature scoring: City, Road, Monastery, Castle, etc.
   - Bonus scoring (post): Markets of Leipzig, Fairy 3 points, Ringmaster points, Teacher
   - Circus scoring

4. Additional actions

* Round 4 - End of turn:
   - Catapult points

You may receive one message at most at the end of each round of scoring if any of your scoring figures moved and ended on a dark space at the end of the given round. Even if your you scoring figures moved and landed on dark spaces, you will only get one message per round of scoring.

You can check here more info about the rounds of scoring:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

[159.] Which is the correct method?

a) 1. Your messenger is on 4. Your meeple is on 0. You receive a point for fairy (messenger on 5). 2. You receive 5 points for a garden (messenger on 10) and 5 for flock (messenger on 15). You receive 5 points for a castle (messenger on 20). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 2).

b) 1. Your messenger is on 4. Your meeple is on 0. You receive a point for fairy (messenger on 5). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 2). You receive 5 points for a garden (messenger on 10). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 4). You receive 5 points for flock (messenger on 15). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 6). You receive 5 points for a castle (messenger on 20). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 8 ).

c) 1. Your messenger is on 4. Your meeple is on 0. You receive a point for fairy (messenger on 5). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 2). You receive 5 points for a garden (messenger on 10). You receive 5 points for flock (messenger on 15). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 4). You receive 5 points for a castle (messenger on 20). You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 6).

The answer is c)

If we apply what we explained in the previous answer, you can see the following chain of events per phase and the corresponding messages received:

Your messenger is on 4. Your meeple is on 0.

| -->
Initial situation
1. Placing a tile
You receive a point for fairy (messenger on 5).
You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 2).

| -->
|
* Round 1A - Beginning of turn (before drawing a tile):
   - Fairy point
2. Placing a meeple
You receive 5 points for a garden (messenger on 10).
You receive 5 points for flock (messenger on 15).
You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 4)

| -->
|
|
* Round 2 - End of “move wood” phase:
   - Abbot removal scoring
   - Shepherd after "Guide flock to the stable" action
2. Scoring a feature
You receive 5 points for a castle (messenger on 20).
You receive a message (+2 points - meeple on 6).
| -->
|
* Round 3 - Scoring phase:
   - Feature scoring: Castle, etc.

You can check here more info about the rounds of scoring:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

[160.] Can you place and move a meeple in/from the city of Carcassonne in the same turn?

During phase 3. Scoring a feature, for each feature to be scored:
1. Players are be allowed in turn to redeploy meeples from the city of Carcassonne to the given feature
2. The feature is scored and the meeples on the feature removed.
Once all the features are scored, if you completed one or more features but did not receive any points, you will be allowed to send a meeple to the city of Carcassonne.

So, on your turn you may of the following actions in this order
1. Place a tile completing a feature
2. Place a meeple on the feature just completed
3. Redeploy meeples from the city of Carcassonne (placed there on a previous turn) to the feature just completed
4. Score the feature
5. Return the meeples from the feature to your supply
6. Send one meeple from your supply to the city of Carcassonne.

You can see that the meeple sent to Carcassonne can be the meeple just placed, one redeployed from Carcassonne or any other from your supply.
 
You can revisit here the rules:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 24, 2020, 03:58:09 PM
But what happens if you receive, for example, in the 1A, the message 4? The turn is interrupted by message's 4 turn? Or you resolve the message 4 after steps 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2, 2C, 2D, 3A, 3B, 3C and 4A?
The hill affects the farmers?
The hill affects the shepherds?
Can you place the abbey or a castle of Germany with the message 4?
Do you receive the 3 fairy-bonus points if you remove the abbot?
In a pyramid there are 3 acrobat. You assign the fairy to acrobat A. What happens with the 1 and 3 bonus points (fairy) for acrobat B and C if the acrobat A is removed?
What happens with the 3 fairy-bonus points if you score a feature with the message 8?
What happens with the 3 fairy-bonus points at the end of the game?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: totor66 on March 25, 2020, 08:04:08 AM
Basic question but I had a dout playing jcloisterzone:

One a shepard is on a field, there is no possiblity to add a farmer ? It is weird since normally shepard is considered not a follower.

On the other hand, we can add a shepard to a previously occupied farm by a farmer, which seems logical

Or did I missread something ? I was reading wikicarpedia for a while but couldn't find answer
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 25, 2020, 01:42:29 PM
[161.] But what happens if you receive, for example, in the 1A, the message 4? The turn is interrupted by message's 4 turn? Or you resolve the message 4 after steps 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2, 2C, 2D, 3A, 3B, 3C and 4A?

If you are checking the Order of Play (ans its step numbering ;))...

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

...you will be able to resolve messages at the following points in your turn:
* Between steps 1A and 1B <-- Messages (#1A)
* Between steps 1B and 1C <-- Messages (#1B)
* Between steps 1C and 2A <-- Messages (#1C)
* Between steps 2C and 2D <-- Messages (#2)
* Between steps 3C and 4A <-- Messages (#3)
* Between steps 4A and 4B <-- Messages (#4)

Message 4 will grant a complete nested turn to the active player taking place at any of this points. It will happen at the end of a step so you would not perform the message with a scoring or any other action half way. It is the same for all other messages.

Please review the section about rounds of scoring that addresses all this precisely:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

[162.] The hill affects the farmers?

Yes, of course. Hills will serve as a tie break for farmers too.

You can revisit the rules here, where farmers are mentioned explicitly:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#Final_Scoring_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#Final_Scoring_2)

[163.] The hill affects the shepherds?

No. Hills do not affect shepherds, since they are not meeples. Shepherds are special figures and they will always share a flock when on the same field.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#3._Scoring_a_hill (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#3._Scoring_a_hill) 
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 25, 2020, 02:30:45 PM
Which is the correct order?
a) You resolve step 1A. You receive message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for the normal turn. You resolve step 2 for the normal turn. You resolve step 3 for the normal turn. You resolve message's 4 turn.
b) You resolve step 1A. You receive message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for message 4. You resolve step 2 for message 4. You resolve step 3 for message 4. You resolve step 1B and 1C for the normal turn. You resolve step 2 for the normal turn. You resolve step 3 for the normal turn.
c) You resolve step 1A. You receive message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for message 4. You resolve step 2 for message 4. You resolve step 3 for message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for the normal turn. You resolve step 2 for the normal turn. You resolve step 3 for the normal turn.
d) You resolve step 1A. You receive message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for message 4. You resolve step 2 for message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for the normal turn. You resolve step 2 for the normal turn. You resolve step 3 for message 4 and step 3 for the normal turn together.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 26, 2020, 07:21:13 AM
[164.] Can you place the abbey or a castle of Germany with the message 4?

There is no rule or clarification covering this case.

The rules of Message 4 are written taking into considerations the base game, so no provision is made for those cases when players may have tiles in their supply such as abbeys, German castles or Halflings. However, performing Message 4 assumes you are executing a normal turn with all its consequences, even double turns granted by builders as you can see here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-16 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-16)

The interpretation of the rules would not prevent players from using a tile in their supply instead of drawing a tile. For bazaars you will always have to draw new tiles to set up an action, though.

Therefore, the turn sequence described in the Order of Play would be valid for a regular/double turn and for extra turns provided by Message 4:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

[165.] Do you receive the 3 fairy-bonus points if you remove the abbot?

No, the abbot won't get the 3-point fairy score bonus when removed.

The scoring of the removed abbot takes place in phase 2. Placing a meeple and the 3-point fairy score bonus takes place in phase 3. Scoring a feature, this means the 3-point fairy score bonus does not apply to the abbot when removed.

You may check the Order of Play to check the sequence of events and the fairy scoring in relation to scoring the abbot when removed and the acrobats when scored.
* Order of Play: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
* Scoring during the game:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game)

[166.] In a pyramid there are 3 acrobat. You assign the fairy to acrobat A. What happens with the 1 and 3 bonus points (fairy) for acrobat B and C if the acrobat A is removed?

Acrobats B and C will be entitled neither to the 1-point fairy bonus during the game nor to the 3-point fairy score bonus at the end of the game if the acrobats are scored at the end of the game.

If you check the following clarification about the fairy and adding meeples to a feature with a crop circle. Only the meeple assigned to the fairy get the bonus, bearing in mind the acrobats are a special case: assigning the fairy to one acrobat benefits all the acrobats in the pyramid. So if you remove the meeple assigned to the fairy, the association would be broken and the other meeples will not benefit from the fairy bonus anymore.

Quote
Crop Circles: Only one meeple can be "next to" (or connected to) the fairy. Thus, only one meeple will receive points from the fairy. Even if another meeple is placed in the same feature on the same tile (as with the Crop Circles), this would not be considered "next to" the fairy.

You can see this check this clarification here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy)

[167.] What happens with the 3 fairy-bonus points if you score a feature with the message 8?

If you score a meeple that would get the 3-point binary score bonus at the end of the game, you should get it as per the interpretation of the rules.

The rules indicate all the features existing in the base game here, including fields, that is, during the game and after the game. We are interested in the scoring happening after the game in this case:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5)

[168.] What happens with the 3 fairy-bonus points at the end of the game?

At the end of the game, you apply the 3-point fairy score bonus as usual for the meeple assigned to the fairy when the feature it is placed on is scored.

The rules indicate all the features existing in the base game here, including fields, that is, during the game and after the game. We are interested in the scoring happening after the game in this case:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5)

Thanks!

My pleasure!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Luijosep on March 26, 2020, 09:29:59 AM
I got a quick question. I noticed that the rules in Wikicarpedia for C2 'The Princess and the Dragon' changed the turn sequence for the Dragon movement to 2B, Why? Physical rules say it happens at Phase 1B. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200326/dcf4ba6577f5ef34c83fcb61761aeffa.jpg)

Sent from my HMA-L29 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 26, 2020, 10:20:43 AM
[171.] I got a quick question. I noticed that the rules in Wikicarpedia for C2 'The Princess and the Dragon' changed the turn sequence for the Dragon movement to 2B, Why? Physical rules say it happens at Phase 1B. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200326/dcf4ba6577f5ef34c83fcb61761aeffa.jpg)

Sent from my HMA-L29 using Tapatalk

Hi Luijosep,

Welcome to the forum. Bienvenido al foro... para que veas que aquí hablamos de todo.  ;)

If you check the rules for the dragon tile, first you place the tile (action belonging to phase 1. Placing a tile) and then you may place a meeple (action belonging to phase 2. Placing a meeple). Right after that you move the dragon. So even if HiG misleadingly number the dragon movement as phase 1B, it is actually phase 2b as it happens after finishing phase 2. Placing a meeple and before phase 3. Scoring a feature.

That's why we renamed the dragon movement as phase 2b in the dragon rules (unwinding the rules to make them clearer) and in the Order of Play:
* The dragon tile rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_dragon_tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_dragon_tiles)
* Order of Play:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

As you can see HiG is inconsistent in their rules and sometimes mislead players. Hope this helps.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 26, 2020, 11:29:39 AM
[169.] Basic question but I had a dout playing jcloisterzone:

[a)] One a shepard is on a field, there is no possiblity to add a farmer ? It is weird since normally shepard is considered not a follower.

[b)] On the other hand, we can add a shepard to a previously occupied farm by a farmer, which seems logical

[c)] Or did I missread something ? I was reading wikicarpedia for a while but couldn't find answer

Hi totor66,

JCZ v4.4.1 is not fully polished and some actions are not implemented correctly:
a) is an error: You should add a farmer to a field with a shepherd.
b) is correctly implemented
c) You are not missing anything.

This version also has some issues when:
* Placing some of the weird tiles in the expansion (you get an spurious Java exception you cannot shake off and some cities cannot be completer because of it).
* Closing a field with shepherds, they are not scored automatically. So shepherd may be trapped.
* Placing a shepherd in an inner field from other expansions, it is not scored automatically either. So shepherd may be trapped.

Sorry for the bad news. Hope this helps.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 26, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
[170.] Which is the correct order?
a) You resolve step 1A. You receive message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for the normal turn. You resolve step 2 for the normal turn. You resolve step 3 for the normal turn. You resolve message's 4 turn.
b) You resolve step 1A. You receive message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for message 4. You resolve step 2 for message 4. You resolve step 3 for message 4. You resolve step 1B and 1C for the normal turn. You resolve step 2 for the normal turn. You resolve step 3 for the normal turn.
c) You resolve step 1A. You receive message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for message 4. You resolve step 2 for message 4. You resolve step 3 for message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for the normal turn. You resolve step 2 for the normal turn. You resolve step 3 for the normal turn.
d) You resolve step 1A. You receive message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for message 4. You resolve step 2 for message 4. You resolve steps 1B and 1C for the normal turn. You resolve step 2 for the normal turn. You resolve step 3 for message 4 and step 3 for the normal turn together.

The turn sequence would be:
- You resolve step 1A for the normal turn. You receive message 4 and perform a full nested turn for the message
   - You resolve step 1A for message 4. (It's a full turn)
   - You resolve step 1B for message 4.
   - You resolve step 1C for message 4.
   - You resolve step 2 for message 4.
   - You resolve step 3 for message 4.
   - You resolve step 4, if applicable, for message 4. (You may even enjoy a double turn)
- You resolve step 1B for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 1C for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 2 for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 3 for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 4, if applicable, for the normal turn.

You can check here more info about the rounds of scoring:
* Rounds of Scoring: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)
* Order of Play:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 26, 2020, 12:54:20 PM
And what happens if you receive the message 4 between step 2 and 3? The step 3 is postponed?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 26, 2020, 01:00:38 PM
[172.] And what happens if you receive the message 4 between step 2 and 3? The step 3 is postponed?

The turn sequence would be the following:
- You resolve step 1A for the normal turn. You receive message 4 and perform a full nested turn for the message
- You resolve step 1B for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 1C for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 2 for the normal turn.
   - You resolve step 1A for message 4. (It's a full turn)
   - You resolve step 1B for message 4.
   - You resolve step 1C for message 4.
   - You resolve step 2 for message 4.
   - You resolve step 3 for message 4.
   - You resolve step 4, if applicable, for message 4. (You may even enjoy a double turn)
- You resolve step 3 for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 4, if applicable, for the normal turn.

You can check here more info about the rounds of scoring:
* Rounds of Scoring: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring
* Order of Play: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 26, 2020, 01:17:08 PM
I have a question... Why are meeples meeples?...

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Luijosep on March 26, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
[171.] I got a quick question. I noticed that the rules in Wikicarpedia for C2 'The Princess and the Dragon' changed the turn sequence for the Dragon movement to 2B, Why? Physical rules say it happens at Phase 1B. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200326/dcf4ba6577f5ef34c83fcb61761aeffa.jpg)

Sent from my HMA-L29 using Tapatalk

Hi Luijosep,

Welcome to the forum. Bienvenido al foro... para que veas que aquí hablamos de todo.  ;)

If you check the rules for the dragon tile, first you place the tile (action belonging to phase 1. Placing a tile) and then you may place a meeple (action belonging to phase 2. Placing a meeple). Right after that you move the dragon. So even if HiG misleadingly number the dragon movement as phase 1B, it is actually phase 2b as it happens after finishing phase 2. Placing a meeple and before phase 3. Scoring a feature.

That's why we renamed the dragon movement as phase 2b in the dragon rules (unwinding the rules to make them clearer) and in the Order of Play:
* The dragon tile rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_dragon_tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_dragon_tiles)
* Order of Play:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

As you can see HiG is inconsistent in their rules and sometimes mislead players. Hope this helps.

Cheers!
Yes, now I get it. The rules are kind of confusing since it says 1b, but the instructions claim that first you place the tile, then a Follower and after that the game will be interrupted to move the Dragon.

By the text it's clear that the Dragon moves at Phase 2b, I see that now. Thanks.

Sent from my HMA-L29 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 26, 2020, 01:57:34 PM
Your welcome! Glad to help.

And welcome to my world  ;)

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 27, 2020, 07:30:26 AM
Can you fly on a tower?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 27, 2020, 12:00:12 PM
Can you fly on a tower?
Only Supermeeple ;)

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 27, 2020, 05:04:09 PM
[173.] Can you fly on a tower?

This case is not covered in the rules or existing clarifications. The interpretation of the rules lead to the conclusion that meeples can be flown to any incomplete feature even if it is occupied except for fields, this means that the feature should be able to be completed and scored. A tower cannot be claimed, completed or scored, so it should be discarded as a valid destination for a flier.

Note: If flying meeples to a tower was allowed, you would have a new conundrum to solve: how to deal with more than one meeple on top of a tower. Not a big deal, but it is something not covered in the rules either.

I understand you would prefer to land a flier to a tower as a last resort instead of removing a figure due to the luck of other options in the destination tile but, if your initial intention is to place your meeple on a tower, why don't do it directly instead of pushing your luck (if it was allowed).

You can check here the placement rules for a flier and for a meeple on a tower:
* The flier rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier#2._Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier#2._Placing_a_meeple)
* The placement of meeples on a tower:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: wolnic on March 28, 2020, 07:26:11 AM
Maybe the question was meant to be "fly from a tower" - could be a house rule/variant - add extra distance depending on the height of the tower  ;)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 28, 2020, 05:49:33 PM
How many points do you receive for a road that starts and ends on a same double-tile? You receive 1 point or 2 points for the double-tile?
Can you place the tollhouse on a road occupied by other tollhouse?
Can you place the phantom in a turn in which you place the tollhouse?
"You resolve step 1A for message 4. (It's a full turn)". Where is written that?
Can you place a meeple and the phantom on the labyrinth-tile in the same turn?
Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne  if you receive points for big top?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 29, 2020, 06:14:50 AM
Maybe the question was meant to be "fly from a tower" - could be a house rule/variant - add extra distance depending on the height of the tower  ;)

Ha ha ha!

That would be something new... Are you creating tower tiles with flying machines? This would be an fan-expansion thing.  ;D

I think I came across with something similar with cliffs. :o
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 29, 2020, 08:56:32 AM
[174.] How many points do you receive for a road that starts and ends on a same double-tile? You receive 1 point or 2 points for the double-tile?

The tile is counted only once, as any regular tile. You would get 1 point for the double-sized tile as per the normal rules.

You also can see here that a road starting and ending at a German castle only gets the 3-point bonus once, that is, the double-sized tile is considered only once in all respects:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-3 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-3)

[175.] Can you place the tollhouse on a road occupied by other tollhouse?

There is no limitation in the rules in this regard. The only limitation is that the crossroads you choose to place your tollhouse has to be free.

So, you may place a tollhouse on a free crossroads at the end of one road even if the other end is another crossroads already occupied by another player's tollhouse.

You can revisit the rules here (I added a clarification as a result of your question):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#Placing_a_meeple)

[176.] Can you place the phantom in a turn in which you place the tollhouse?

Yes, you can place your phantom after placing or moving your tollhouse. The tollhouse is placed instead of one of your meeples as first figure, but you can place your phantom as second figure on your turn.

You can revisit the whole turn sequence here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) 

[177.] "You resolve step 1A for message 4. (It's a full turn)". Where is written that?

I haven't found it in any clarification but it is the interpretation of the rules you can make after noticing you can have a double turn when resolving a Message 4 tile. If so, there is no reason to perform a full turn and follow a normal turn sequence as described in the Order of Play.

You can see the clarification about Message 4 and the builder double turn here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-16 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-16)

You can revisit the whole turn sequence of the Order of Play here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) 

[178.] Can you place a meeple and the phantom on the labyrinth-tile in the same turn?

You can place only one of them as you are occupying one feature only, you can place either one of your wooden meeples or your phantom on the labyrinth tile.

Take also into consideration the occupancy rules for the labyrinth:
* Basic rules: you can only occupy the labyrinth tile if no meeple is placed on the connected roads.
* Advance rules: you can occupy the labyrinth tile no matter the meeples placed on the connected roads.

You can revisit the Labyrinth rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Labyrinths#Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Labyrinths#Placing_a_meeple)

[179.] Can you place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne  if you receive points for big top?

As per the rules, after placing a tile, you can place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne if you received no points for features scored in phase 3. Scoring a feature but at least one other player did. This includes the big top.

So if you get points for the big top, you will not be able to deploy a meeple to then city of Carcassonne. On the other hand, if you place a circus tile and get no points from the scoring the big top (or any other completed feature) and at least one player does, then you would be allowed to place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne.

You can revisit the rules about meeple deployment to the city of Carcassonne here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_in_the_City_of_Carcassonne)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on March 29, 2020, 11:24:37 PM
[178.] Can you place a meeple and the phantom on the labyrinth-tile in the same turn?

You can place only one of them as you are occupying one feature only, you can place either one of your wooden meeples or your phantom on the labyrinth tile.

Take also into consideration the occupancy rules for the labyrinth:
* Basic rules: you can only occupy the labyrinth tile if no meeple is placed on the connected roads.
* Advance rules: you can occupy the labyrinth tile no matter the meeples placed on the connected roads.
Surely you can place one meeple (normal or phantom) as a highwayman on the labyrinth itself and one as s farmer on one of the thin fields on the edges of the tile?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 30, 2020, 08:04:13 AM
Are these monasteries completed?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 30, 2020, 08:04:46 AM
How many points do you receive for this monastery? 17 or 18?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 30, 2020, 08:23:51 AM
Are these monasteries completed?
Yes all of them.....  ::)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 30, 2020, 08:26:04 AM
How many points do you receive for this monastery? 17 or 18?
18
1 point each tile.....
WICA my friend....  ;)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 30, 2020, 12:52:00 PM
"At the beginning of the game all triangular tiles are placed face up on the table. A starting player is determined. Starting with the player who will be last in turn order and moving counterclockwise, everyone takes one tile and places it face down in front of him. All players then take a second tile in the same way. Thus, each player has chosen 2 tiles to use during the game." Why face down, if all players have seen your tiles?
With the crop circle you can remove/place any kind of meeple?
Do you receive a second message in a round of scoring (For example #2C) if you choose "Score 2 points (as shown in the bottom-right of the message tile.)"?
If you receive the message 4 when you create the river, you draw a river tile?
"When a completed road or a city contains a tile which features a watchtower, and there is a meeple on the feature (city, road) on that tile, the watchtower is scored first." Road, city or castle? Or only road or city?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 30, 2020, 12:55:41 PM
But in this case the all 9 spaces are not occupied.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 30, 2020, 04:46:22 PM
[178.] Can you place a meeple and the phantom on the labyrinth-tile in the same turn?

You can place only one of them as you are occupying one feature only, you can place either one of your wooden meeples or your phantom on the labyrinth tile.

Take also into consideration the occupancy rules for the labyrinth:
* Basic rules: you can only occupy the labyrinth tile if no meeple is placed on the connected roads.
* Advance rules: you can occupy the labyrinth tile no matter the meeples placed on the connected roads.
Surely you can place one meeple (normal or phantom) as a highwayman on the labyrinth itself and one as s farmer on one of the thin fields on the edges of the tile?

You cannot place one of your wooden meeples and your phantom on the labyrinth at the same time but you have several options as you suggest:
* A wooden meeple as a highwayman on the labyrinth and a phantom as a farmer on one of the field strips
* A wooden meeple as a farmer on one of the field strips and a phantom as a highwayman on the labyrinth
* A wooden meeple and a phantom as farmers on two of the four field strips surrounding the labyrinth on the tile.

Of course you can also decide to place just one meeple (wooden or phantom) either as a highwayman or as a farmer.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 31, 2020, 03:54:07 AM
What happens if you fly (or arrive with the portal) on this monastery (after removing of blue and red meeple)?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 04:20:03 AM
[180.] Are these monasteries completed?

[A.] (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12585)

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at least by one halfling) and a player would score 16 points (1 normal tile and 15 halflings) for it during the game.

[B.] (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12586)

This monastery is NOT completed (one of the surrounding 8 spaces is empty). A player would score 16 points (16 halflings) for it if scored by an abbot during the game or at the end of the game.

Note the halflings next to the monastery (on another halfling) does not complete the monastery. They are both on the same space.

[C.] (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12587)

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at by halflings and normal tiles) and a player would score 16 points (1 normal tile and 15 halflings) for it during the game.

Note the triangular gap by the monastery is unimportant.

So all in all, monasteries (on a square tile or on a halting) are completed if the 8 surrounding spaces are occupied by 1 square tile, 1 halfling or 2 halflings on the same space. If we include double-sized tiles one space or two spaced adjacent to the monastery could be also occupied by a double-sized tile. Each tile on the 9 spaces (the one with the monastery and 8 adjacent ones) will count as 1 point no matter if the tile is square, a halfling or a double-sized tile. Double sized-tiles are counted once even if occupying two adjacent tiles to the monastery.

You can review the rules and associated clarifications here:
* Monastery scoring with Halflings: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Scoring_a_feature_.5B8.5D (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Scoring_a_feature_.5B8.5D)
* Monastery completion with halflings:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-9 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-9)
* Monastery scoring with double-sized tiles:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-1 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-1)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 04:27:37 AM
[181.] How many points do you receive for this monastery? 17 or 18?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12588)

This monastery will score 18 points (1 point for each of the 18 halflings on the space with the monastery tile and the 8 adjacent spaces).

For this scenario to be possible, the monastery tile has to be the last one placed here, otherwise the monastery would be completed earlier, since triangular gaps in the any of the 9 spaces with monastery tile and the 8 adjacent spaces would be ignored.

You can revisit this clarification:
* Monastery completion with halflings: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-9 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-9)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 04:43:05 AM
(180.) Are these monasteries completed?
Yes all of them.....  ::)

Allow me to disagree. The second example is not complete as there is an empty square space adjacent to the space with the monastery.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12586)

Two halflings on the same space are not enough to complete the monastery even if the position of the monastery seems not to touch the empty space.

When adding Halflings to the equation, we have to think of occupied spaces (the one with the monastery and the 8 adjacent ones). I visualize it as a 3x3 grid. Each space has to be occupied somehow: by one or two triangular tiles, by a square tile or even by half a double-sized tile.  ;D

Only individual triangular gaps are ignored so a space with a triangular gap is considered occupied of the sake of the completion of the monastery.

As you know, this is all we have including clarifications and interpretations of the rules for C1:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition))

Let's see if HiG makes our lives any easier with the release of Halflings for C2. I have my reservations since they will not be able to include all the interactions due to the lack of space to include them all. Let's wait and see.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 31, 2020, 04:48:19 AM
(180.) Are these monasteries completed?
Yes all of them.....  ::)

Allow me to disagree. The second example is not complete as there is an empty square space adjacent to the space with the monastery.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12586)

Two halflings on the same space are not enough to complete the monastery even if the position of the monastery seems not to touch the empty space.

When adding Halflings to the equation, we have to think of occupied spaces (the one with the monastery and the 8 adjacent ones). I visualize it as a 3x3 grid. Each space has to be occupied somehow: by one or two triangular tiles, by a square tile or even by half a double-sized tile.  ;D

Only individual triangular gaps are ignored so a space with a triangular gap is considered occupied of the sake of the completion of the monastery.

As you know, this is all we have including clarifications and interpretations of the rules for C1:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition))

Let's see if HiG makes our lives any easier with the release of Halflings for C2. I have my reservations since they will not be able to include all the interactions due to the lack of space to include them all. Let's wait and see.
Then there is a big contradiction with 1 halfling - 1 tile.

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 06:09:16 AM
(180.) Are these monasteries completed?
Yes all of them.....  ::)

Allow me to disagree. The second example is not complete as there is an empty square space adjacent to the space with the monastery.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12586)

Two halflings on the same space are not enough to complete the monastery even if the position of the monastery seems not to touch the empty space.

When adding Halflings to the equation, we have to think of occupied spaces (the one with the monastery and the 8 adjacent ones). I visualize it as a 3x3 grid. Each space has to be occupied somehow: by one or two triangular tiles, by a square tile or even by half a double-sized tile.  ;D

Only individual triangular gaps are ignored so a space with a triangular gap is considered occupied of the sake of the completion of the monastery.

As you know, this is all we have including clarifications and interpretations of the rules for C1:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition))

Let's see if HiG makes our lives any easier with the release of Halflings for C2. I have my reservations since they will not be able to include all the interactions due to the lack of space to include them all. Let's wait and see.
Then there is a big contradiction with 1 halfling - 1 tile.

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

That is correct for scoring but monasteries stick to the 3x3 space grid as in the basic game to decide their completeness.

The image below would be clearly an incomplete monastery, but as per the Halflings geometry would be equivalent to the one above, that you considered complete.
 
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 10:32:13 AM
[182.] "At the beginning of the game all triangular tiles are placed face up on the table. A starting player is determined. Starting with the player who will be last in turn order and moving counterclockwise, everyone takes one tile and places it face down in front of him. All players then take a second tile in the same way. Thus, each player has chosen 2 tiles to use during the game." Why face down, if all players have seen your tiles?

There is no trick here and the German rules state the same preparation procedure.

The rules seem to suggest an open auction but then players keep their tiles face down. Why? Well, players may pick their favorites, if possible, but normally other players would not be able to keep track of all the tiles distributed. There may have 12 or even 24 tiles to choose from if playing with both Halflings I & II.

You can revisit the rule here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Preparation (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Preparation)

[183.] With the crop circle you can remove/place any kind of meeple?

Yes, you can remove any kind of meeple from the feature type indicated by the crop circle symbol: a city (shield), a road (club) or a field (pitchfork). Therefore there is no restriction on the meeple type itself but on the type of feature it is on.

If using the Halflings II, there is one tile with a crop circle showing just a circle, that is Joker. This means that the player who places this tile can decide to treat it as a shield, a club, or a pitchfork. This is the tile:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/0/0a/Halflings_C1_Cundco_Tile_04.jpg)

The Joker tile will not allow you to affect other feature types different from cities, roads, or fields. So monasteries or other features are out of bounds.

You can revisit the Crop Circles rules here:
* Crop circle rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action)
* Clarification of crop circle on Halfling tile:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-5)

[184.] Do you receive a second message in a round of scoring (For example #2C) if you choose "Score 2 points (as shown in the bottom-right of the message tile.)"?

Yes, resolving a message consists in either performing the action described in the message or scoring the 2 points as an alternative. According to the rules you score the points (no matter the option chosen by the player) and this may lead to chain messages.

This means that instead of performing the action, you may choose to score the fixed two points because you prefer to chain messages expecting a more favorable action.

You can revisit the rules here.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#3._Scoring_a_feature)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 10:37:50 AM
(180.B) But in this case the all 9 spaces are not occupied.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12586)

Yes, as not all the 9 spaces are occupied by at least one tile, this monastery is NOT completed.

Please, check my reply above: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.msg67136#msg67136 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.msg67136#msg67136)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 11:06:23 AM
[185.] What happens if you fly (or arrive with the portal) on this monastery (after removing of blue and red meeple)?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12593)

After the challenge is resolved the red heretic and the blue monk will be removed. The shrine or cult place will be completed and cannot be occupied again but the incomplete monastery (previously occupied by Blue) can be occupied again with the help of a flying machine or a magic portal.

You can check the interactions of shrines with magic portals here (see section Exp. 3 - The Princess and the Dragon), covering this case among others (the same would apply to fliers):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 31, 2020, 11:09:25 AM
The big top affects all these tiles?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on March 31, 2020, 11:11:01 AM
But you can look at your halflings?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 31, 2020, 11:36:35 AM
I guess yes.
Every tile start on place of standard size tile arround top.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on March 31, 2020, 12:17:13 PM
(180.) Are these monasteries completed?
Yes all of them.....  ::)

Allow me to disagree. The second example is not complete as there is an empty square space adjacent to the space with the monastery.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12586)

Two halflings on the same space are not enough to complete the monastery even if the position of the monastery seems not to touch the empty space.

When adding Halflings to the equation, we have to think of occupied spaces (the one with the monastery and the 8 adjacent ones). I visualize it as a 3x3 grid. Each space has to be occupied somehow: by one or two triangular tiles, by a square tile or even by half a double-sized tile.  ;D

Only individual triangular gaps are ignored so a space with a triangular gap is considered occupied of the sake of the completion of the monastery.

As you know, this is all we have including clarifications and interpretations of the rules for C1:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition))

Let's see if HiG makes our lives any easier with the release of Halflings for C2. I have my reservations since they will not be able to include all the interactions due to the lack of space to include them all. Let's wait and see.
Then there is a big contradiction with 1 halfling - 1 tile.

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

That is correct for scoring but monasteries stick to the 3x3 space grid as in the basic game to decide their completeness.

The image below would be clearly an incomplete monastery, but as per the Halflings geometry would be equivalent to the one above, that you considered complete.
Walking contradiction....


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 02:20:34 PM
You know now why EVERYBODY loved Halflings since 2014 and they will love it again since 2020 if HiG does do their homework right  >:D >:D >:D

Halflings has had a lot of complicated areas since its inception and the clarifications from 10/2015 solved half the issues only...  >:(
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on April 01, 2020, 12:27:25 AM
Carcassonne93, can you give some insight as to the context for your questions? I'm bursting with curiosity! I'm struggling to guess how you've got so many in such a short period of time?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 01, 2020, 01:53:42 AM
I only read again the rules.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on April 01, 2020, 04:54:49 AM
You know now why EVERYBODY loved Halflings since 2014 and they will love it again since 2020 if HiG does do their homework right  >:D >:D >:D

Halflings has had a lot of complicated areas since its inception and the clarifications from 10/2015 solved half the issues only...  >:(
I see you accept the contradictions about the rule 1 halfling - 1 tile except for halfling with monastery. I don’t think HiG will say something about new C2 halflings... Surely they say something about... ‘We don’t recomended to play halflings with expansions... that’s your choice my friend... bla bla’


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Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 01, 2020, 06:47:16 AM
Well by official rules for Halfling (C2) published on CarF https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005,
Monastery is finished if there is nice border of squere size 3x3 which can contain trialngle gap, but only inside quere which not affect border.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 01, 2020, 06:52:18 AM
"Each player must either...
A) ... take a Meeple from their supply and place it next to another one
of their Meeples of this kind on the same land tile.
OR
B) ... remove one of their Meeples of the determined kind from a land tile
and put it back into their supply.
If a player does not have any Meeples of the determined kind,
they cannot complete neither action A nor B." In Crop Circle A) is "may", not "must".
"You earn 3 points for sheep on this tile if you guide your flock to the stable. A wolf cannot scatter
your flock." What happens in this case if you draw a wolf token?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 01, 2020, 06:59:13 AM
Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on April 01, 2020, 09:46:56 AM
I only read again the rules.
So, to clarify, you have had a big Carcassonne collection for some time and you're now returning to the game and so reading the rules thoroughly?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 01, 2020, 10:07:55 AM
I only read again the rules.
So, to clarify, you have had a big Carcassonne collection for some time and you're now returning to the game and so reading the rules thoroughly?
Sometimes it's good to do it. Specially with C1/C2 mini expansions  :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on April 01, 2020, 01:57:12 PM
Thanks Carcassonne93  :yellow-meeple: :(y)

Although I don't understand all of it, I'm enjoying the thread.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Vital Pluymers on April 01, 2020, 10:32:43 PM
Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

Where have you read this?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 02, 2020, 12:21:50 AM
Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

Where have you read this?

Again: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005)
Rules for C2 Halb so wild, page 2, section "3"

But there is a problem with new rules which change scoring monasteries. Maximum points (without wineyards or other expansions) is 9 points for finished monastery. One point for every standard "tile" position:
If two triangular tiles have been placed instead of a regular land tile you still only score 1 point for this segment.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 05:45:22 AM
Yes... I'm still in shock. We go back to the 9-point monastery no matter what (square tiles, one or two halflings and double-sized tiles then)... And that means that German castles will only score 12 points no matter what too.

A lot to review and update. I'm feeling lucky once again. :o

PS: That means I have to revisit some responses above: 180 and 181 at least. Perfect timing!  >:D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on April 02, 2020, 07:00:23 AM
Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

Where have you read this?

Again: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005)
Rules for C2 Halb so wild, page 2, section "3"

But there is a problem with new rules which change scoring monasteries. Maximum points (without wineyards or other expansions) is 9 points for finished monastery. One point for every standard "tile" position:
If two triangular tiles have been placed instead of a regular land tile you still only score 1 point for this segment.
Then more contradictions with C2... lol 9 points with structure 3x3 but double triangular tiles counts as one... But only 1 triangular tile in square space counts like 1 tile-1 point too.... But this only affects to monasteries right?? Hahahaha Then these rules are only for C2?? HiG should be more clear with C1 now or say something about if these rules affects to C1 too....


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Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 02, 2020, 07:58:56 AM
Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

Where have you read this?

Again: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005)
Rules for C2 Halb so wild, page 2, section "3"

But there is a problem with new rules which change scoring monasteries. Maximum points (without wineyards or other expansions) is 9 points for finished monastery. One point for every standard "tile" position:
If two triangular tiles have been placed instead of a regular land tile you still only score 1 point for this segment.
Then more contradictions with C2... lol 9 points with structure 3x3 but double triangular tiles counts as one... But only 1 triangular tile in square space counts like 1 tile-1 point too.... But this only affects to monasteries right?? Hahahaha Then these rules are only for C2?? HiG should be more clear with C1 now or say something about if these rules affects to C1 too....


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk

I quess, it will be on players. When play only C1 halflings, they will use old rules, if play C2 or both, they will play by new rules. Or they can choose family rules and combine.

Anyway, 3x3 contains halflings by C2 Rules will affect also expansions as Barber-Surgeons, Acrobats, Gardens, because it is important to have full 3x3 border
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Murphy013 on April 02, 2020, 01:03:09 PM
It looks like that they count occupied places. I‘m missing the interactions with all other expansions. You find on WiCa a lot of stuff regarding to C1. Meepledrone will now figure out a lot of stuff.
But in my opinion we got clarification for halflings which were now dropped or not recognised in any way
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 02:20:55 PM
(180.) Are these monasteries completed?

[A.] (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12585)

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at least by one halfling) and a player would score 16 points (1 normal tile and 15 halflings) for it during the game.

Note: The updated rules for Halflings (as per the update in 04/2020) state that:
1) Monasteries are completed when the 8 adjacent spaces are occupied by at least one tile: 1 square tile, 1 halfling tile, 2 hailing tiles (or one part of a double-sized tile, I would add) -- Nothing new here
2) Monasteries score according to the occupied spaces around the monasteries and the monastery itself, not the tiles -- This seems a regression for the new rules from 10/2015 back to the original rules in 2014

The consequences of 2) are the following:
* Completed monasteries score always 9 points during the game (1 point for the space occupied by the monastery and 1 point per occupied adjacent space)
* Incomplete monasteries also score 1 point for the space occupied by the monastery and 1 point per occupied adjacent space at the end of the game.

Other consequences of 2) when scoring for monastic buildings and gardens involving halflings:
- Completed monastic buildings and gardens will score 9 points no matter what
- The removal of the abbot will score 1 point for the space occupied by the feature and 1 point per occupied adjacent space
- An incomplete monastic building will score 1 point for the space occupied by the feature and 1 point per occupied adjacent space

Moreover, this will have consequences with German castles:
- Completed German castles  will score the same will score 12 points no matter what
- An incomplete German castle will score 2 point for the German castle and 1 point per occupied adjacent space
- Monastic buildings and gardens should with adjacent German castles should score according to occupied adjacent spaces instead of tiles. Therefore, these two monasteries score 9 points too:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/0/0e/German_Castles_C2_Clarification_Cloister_Example_01.png)

Crazy conclusions? It is just porting the rules to other scenarios where features score in a similar way to monasteries.  >:D



So after this digression lest's get back to question (180.A)

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at least by one halfling) and a player would score 9 points (1 for the space  occupied by the monastery tile and 8 adjacent occupied spaces) for it during the game.


[B.] (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12586)

This monastery is NOT completed (one of the surrounding 8 spaces is empty). A player would score 16 points (16 halflings) for it if scored by an abbot during the game or at the end of the game.

Note the halflings next to the monastery (on another halfling) does not complete the monastery. They are both on the same space.


This monastery is NOT completed (one of the surrounding 8 spaces is empty). A player would score 8 points (8 occupied spaces including the monastery) for it if scored by an abbot during the game or at the end of the game.

Note the halflings next to the monastery (on another halfling) does not complete the monastery. They are both on the same space.

[C.] (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12587)

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at by halflings and normal tiles) and a player would score 16 points (1 normal tile and 15 halflings) for it during the game.

Note the triangular gap by the monastery is unimportant.


This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at by halflings and normal tiles) and a player would score 9 points  for it during the game.

Note the triangular gap by the monastery is unimportant.

Any comments?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 02:23:28 PM
(181.) How many points do you receive for this monastery? 17 or 18?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12588)

This monastery will score 18 points (1 point for each of the 18 halflings on the space with the monastery tile and the 8 adjacent spaces).

For this scenario to be possible, the monastery tile has to be the last one placed here, otherwise the monastery would be completed earlier, since triangular gaps in the any of the 9 spaces with monastery tile and the 8 adjacent spaces would be ignored.

You can revisit this clarification:
* Monastery completion with halflings: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-9 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-9)

As per the new rules published, this monastery is complete and scores 9 points (1 for the space occupied by the monastery and 1 for each occupied adjacent space). All the spaces are occupied by 2 halfling tiles.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 02:33:54 PM
[186.] The big top affects all these tiles?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12596)

Yes, double-sized tiles are considered 1 tile so they will be considered.

Here we should apply the same principle in halflings: the big should consider all the meeples on the tiles occupying:
* The space with the big top
* The 8 adjacent adjacent spaces
* The castle tokens overlapping any of the 9 aforementioned spaces

You can revisit the rules here:
* The big top scoring rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature)
* The considerations for castles:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Circus_tiles.2C_animal_tokens_and_the_big_top_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Circus_tiles.2C_animal_tokens_and_the_big_top_2)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 02:36:12 PM
[186.] The big top affects all these tiles?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12596)

Yes, double-sized tiles are considered 1 tile so they will be considered.

Here we should apply the same principle in halflings: the big should consider all the meeples on the tiles occupying:
* The space with the big top
* The 8 adjacent adjacent spaces
* The castle tokens overlapping any of the 9 aforementioned spaces

You can revisit the rules here:
* The big top scoring rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature)
* The considerations for castles:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Circus_tiles.2C_animal_tokens_and_the_big_top_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Circus_tiles.2C_animal_tokens_and_the_big_top_2)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 02:40:14 PM
(182.B) But you can look at your halflings?

Of course. You can look at them any time. You place them face down just to avoid other players to look at them during the game.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 02, 2020, 02:47:32 PM
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-1? This clarification is official.
What happens with the if you place a castle where there is a "1 point for each tile showing at least one part of a city [4]" watchtower?
"The meeple placed on the watchtower tile is the one receiving the points. The rules assume only one meeple on the watchtower tile, but you could use a flying machine, the city of Carcassonne or a crop circle to deploy more meeples. These interactions are not covered by the rules (and HiG won't be providing any clarifications as per the disclaimer in the rules).

Since the bonus goes to the meeple, no majority would be taken into consideration and each player would get the full bonus points for each meeple on the watchtower."
Example: You have 2 meeples on a watchtower tile. The watchtower scores 5 points. You receive 5 points twice or 10 points?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
[187.] "Each player must either...
A) ... take a Meeple from their supply and place it next to another one
of their Meeples of this kind on the same land tile.
OR
B) ... remove one of their Meeples of the determined kind from a land tile
and put it back into their supply.
If a player does not have any Meeples of the determined kind,
they cannot complete neither action A nor B." In Crop Circle A) is "may", not "must".

Firstly, this is a mistranslation by HiG in the new rules. If you translate the German rules you will read the following:

"Each player either...
A) ...may take a Meeple from their supply and place it next to another one
of their Meeples of this kind on the same land tile.
OR
B) ...must remove one of their Meeples of the determined kind from a land tile
and put it back into their supply.

ZMG made a similar mistake in the English rules for BB6. You can check the rules here according to the original HiG intent:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action)

Note that the rules always have stated that:
A) all the players (with meeples of the given kind) may place a meeple
B) all the players (with meeples of the given kind) must remove a meeple

When choosing A) players have the option to do nothing or place a meeple. When choosing B) there is no option fo players with meeples of the given kind.

[188.] "You earn 3 points for sheep on this tile if you guide your flock to the stable. A wolf cannot scatter
your flock." What happens in this case if you draw a wolf token?

The German rules say "You get 3 points for the sheep on this tile if you guide your flock to the stable. A wolf cannot scare these sheep away."

Those 3 sheep will be added to your flock when scored (Guide flock to stable action). If you draw a wolf token, the shepherd and its flock will be removed without scoring and the three sheep will remain in the field for the next shepherd placed in that field.

These sheep will behave like the sheep present in the C1 River III tiles from Big Box 5. You can see a note here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#Hills_.26_Sheep_with_River_III (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#Hills_.26_Sheep_with_River_III)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 03:40:22 PM
(188.) Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

You mean that when the dragon is on the tile you may still score these 3 sheep for a shepherd on another tile in the same filed, right?

There is no clarification about this case. There may be two options:
A) The sheep ignore the dragon as they cannot be removed and the shepherd can score them even when the dragon is on the same tile as the sheep.
B) The sheep are temporarily "disabled" by the dragon on the same tile as normal sheep would be eaten by the dragon.

You may need to define a house rule to decide what to do in this case.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 03:45:13 PM
Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

Where have you read this?

Again: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005)
Rules for C2 Halb so wild, page 2, section "3"

But there is a problem with new rules which change scoring monasteries. Maximum points (without wineyards or other expansions) is 9 points for finished monastery. One point for every standard "tile" position:
If two triangular tiles have been placed instead of a regular land tile you still only score 1 point for this segment.
Then more contradictions with C2... lol 9 points with structure 3x3 but double triangular tiles counts as one... But only 1 triangular tile in square space counts like 1 tile-1 point too.... But this only affects to monasteries right?? Hahahaha Then these rules are only for C2?? HiG should be more clear with C1 now or say something about if these rules affects to C1 too....


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk

I quess, it will be on players. When play only C1 halflings, they will use old rules, if play C2 or both, they will play by new rules. Or they can choose family rules and combine.

Anyway, 3x3 contains halflings by C2 Rules will affect also expansions as Barber-Surgeons, Acrobats, Gardens, because it is important to have full 3x3 border

I totally agree...

And German castles too
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 02, 2020, 04:15:37 PM
[189.] http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-1? This clarification is official.

Yes, it was official and it matched the rule that monastic buildings and German castles were scored by the number of adjacent tiles. Now that HiG has overridden this, all the related clarifications have to be revisited for the sake of consistency. This clarification was from 10/2015 and was provided in the same batch as the previous new rules for Halflings.

[190.] What happens with the if you place a castle where there is a "1 point for each tile showing at least one part of a city [4]" watchtower?

Since, castles are not city segments anymore, they should be ignored in the watchtower scoring.

You can see the following interaction that explicitly indicate that castles are not cities:

* King and Robber: (http://King and Robber:) A castle does not score as a completed city for the king.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2)

* Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars: Meeples from the city of Carcassonne (the castle district) cannot move to a castle, as it is not a city anymore, but a new type of feature instead.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne_2)

[191.] "The meeple placed on the watchtower tile is the one receiving the points. The rules assume only one meeple on the watchtower tile, but you could use a flying machine, the city of Carcassonne or a crop circle to deploy more meeples. These interactions are not covered by the rules (and HiG won't be providing any clarifications as per the disclaimer in the rules).

Since the bonus goes to the meeple, no majority would be taken into consideration and each player would get the full bonus points for each meeple on the watchtower."
Example: You have 2 meeples on a watchtower tile. The watchtower scores 5 points. You receive 5 points twice or 10 points?

The interpretation of the rules leads to that conclusion, since the meeple on the watchtower is triggering the watchtower scoring.

Going back to your example, ff both meeples were from different players, both of them should score. If so, if both belong to the sample player, it should happen the same.

All in all, each meeple triggering the watchtower is scored individually.

You can revisit the watchtower rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 02, 2020, 04:32:26 PM
This news rules trigger the necessity of clarifications for halves and double-tiles (Haflings, Castles in Germany and The Markets of Leipzig) for Base game (road, city and monastery scoring), Princess and Dragon (the dragon, the fairy), The Tower (the tower), Abbey and Mayor (the barn, the wagon), Count, King and Robber (King, Robber), Bridges, Castles and Bazaars (the bridge, the castle), The Abbot (the garden), The Flying Machines (the flying machine), The Goldmines (the gold bar), Monasteries in Germany (the meeples placed as abbots), The Watchtower (the watchtower), The Fruit-Bearing Trees (carrying out of a fruit action), the Barber-Surgeons (The living of the bathhouse)...
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 04, 2020, 11:07:36 AM
After reviewing the intended meaning of the original German rules C2 Halflings, my understanding is the following:

* Half-sized tiles are considered individual tiles:
   - You can place meeples on them no matter they share the same square space with another half-sized tile no matter if the latter has a meeple on it.
   - You score features like roads and cities as per the usual rules even if they include half-sized tiles, that is, half-sized tiles count the same as regular tiles.

* The exception is how monasteries behave:
   - Monasteries are completed when they the eight adjacent square spaces are occupied by regular square tiles or, by 1 or 2 half-sized tiles per space --- This is not a change.
   - Completed monasteries always score 9 points, no matter how many tiles can be crammed into the 3x3 grid centered at the monastery. --- This is a return to the original intent of the rules from 2014 with an updated wording.

So it seems this was the original intent by HiG back in 2014 but somehow down the road it got misinterpreted. The discussion around if two half-sized tiles in the same square would score as 1 square tile for cities and roads was never in the rules. It seems to have popped up from the way monasteries considered tiles in their surroundings when half-sized tiles entered the equation.

Therefore, all the clarifications from 10/2015 seem to continue to be valid except for monasteries that go back to their original definition. The number of tiles around a monastery is irrelevant, just the number of occupied spaces.

This redefinition of how monasteries are scored with half-sized tiles has a domino effect on other interactions, even contradicting clarifications from 10/2015. HiG will not provide clarifications for all these interactions so we'll have to extrapolate from the given rules to cover this cases as best as we can. Affected interactions:
* Scoring of all monastic buildings: abbeys, shrines, German monasteries (with a monk), Dutch & Belgian monasteries (with a monk), Japanese buildings (with a monk) and Darmstadt churches should follow the same rules as monasteries
* Scoring of gardens: should follow similar rules to monasteries
* Scoring of the abbot when removed: should follow similar rules to incomplete monasteries
* Scoring of German monasteries: should be adapted to follow similar rules to monasteries (but scoring always 12 points when complete).
* Scoring of monastic buildings and gardens with adjacent double-sized tiles: should be adapted so they score 9 points when complete no matter if one or more double-sized tiles are occupying multiple adjacent spaces to the feature. This would contradict this clarification from 10/2015 where these monasteries would score according to the number of adjacent tiles:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/0/0e/German_Castles_C2_Clarification_Cloister_Example_01.png)
Example:
- Clarification from 10/2015: (A) scores 8 points, (B) scores 7 points 
- Rules aligned with C2 halfings: (A) scores 9 points, (B) scores 9 points 

Additionally, any feature or action considering adjacency from a tile should consider any tile placed on an adjacent square space:
- One regular square tile
- One Half-sized tile
- Two half-sized tiles sharing the same square space
- One half of a double-sized tile (as a consequence)

In general this affects:
- Areas of 3x3 tiles centered at a feature or figure (watchtower tiles, acrobat tiles, circus tiles, fruit-bearing tree tiles, bathhouses, Darmstadt churches)
- Areas of 2x3 tiles (castle fiefs)
- Areas of 4x3 tiles (area of a adjacency to a German castle)
- Adjacencies related to the placement of gold ingots

Other mechanics such the range of the tower, columns and rows for special monasteries with a meeple placed as an abbot, the trajectory of a flier, the movement of dragon, the movement of the flea tokens, etc. will follow the clarifications provided so far:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 11, 2020, 06:00:19 AM
"You can place a wagon in a castle when converting a completed small city into a castle. There is no written rule or clarification stating that after scoring the castle you may move the wagon to an adjacent unoccupied feature.

So far we can assume the wagon will score the castle and the player will remove it.

You may define a house rule to move it to any unoccupied feature in the castle fief but, this is not official", but "Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars: If you place your ringmaster on a castle, you score its ringmaster points considering the 6 tiles in the castle fief."

Can I translate WikiCarpedia in Romanian?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: totor66 on April 11, 2020, 06:22:22 AM
Does an incomplete cloister occupied by an abbot is scored, does abbot goes to a free bathhouse ?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 11, 2020, 06:34:13 AM
I think no, because in this case the abbot is scored in step. 2, and the placing of a meeple on a bathhouse happens in step 3.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 11, 2020, 06:37:48 AM
The Barber-Surgeons: What happens if you score a meeple with the message 8?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 11, 2020, 11:31:37 AM
The Barber-Surgeons: What happens if you score a meeple with the message 8?
We were playing this way that this is different meeple scored in this turn, so in current run scored and more than one meeple, so no-one goes to bathhouse.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 12, 2020, 03:58:33 AM
[192.] "You can place a wagon in a castle when converting a completed small city into a castle. There is no written rule or clarification stating that after scoring the castle you may move the wagon to an adjacent unoccupied feature.

So far we can assume the wagon will score the castle and the player will remove it.

You may define a house rule to move it to any unoccupied feature in the castle fief but, this is not official", but "Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars: If you place your ringmaster on a castle, you score its ringmaster points considering the 6 tiles in the castle fief."

I'm not sure if you are asking for confirmation on this.

The rules for the wagon change from C1 (the wagon can move to an unoccupied feature connected by roads or shared edges) to C2 (the wagon can move to an unoccupied in the vicinity of the current position: current tile or any tile around it).

The rules don't specify how to move a wagon placed in a castle after scoring:
* C1 rules: Can the wagon move to an incomplete unoccupied road ending at the castle (the former town/small city)?
* C2 rules: Can the wagon move to an incomplete unoccupied feature in the fief of the castle?

These would be the logical options available but we have no official answers for this as of yet.

You can revisit the rules her:
* C1: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor_(1st_edition)#Scoring_3 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor_(1st_edition)#Scoring_3)
* C2:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#3._Scoring_a_feature_4 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#3._Scoring_a_feature_4)

Can I translate WikiCarpedia in Romanian?

Sure you can. Welcome to the family!  ;D

I will PM you with some info on how to proceed.  :(y)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 12, 2020, 04:13:33 AM
[193.] Does an incomplete cloister occupied by an abbot is scored, does abbot goes to a free bathhouse ?

There you have your answer...

I think no, because in this case the abbot is scored in step. 2, and the placing of a meeple on a bathhouse happens in step 3.

When a scoring happens you have to remember the phase it belongs to as there are bonuses and actions that only happen during phase 3. Scoring a feature that will not apply to scorings happening in other phases.

In this case, as Carcassonne93 mentioned, the abbot is scored in phase 2. Placing a meeple and sending a meeple to a bathhouse involves features scored in phase 3. Scoring a feature.

You can check the turn sequence in the Order of Play to verify the timing of these two events and, if interested, other scoring events:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 12, 2020, 05:13:46 AM
[194.] The Barber-Surgeons: What happens if you score a meeple with the message 8?

The Barber-Surgeons: What happens if you score a meeple with the message 8?
We were playing this way that this is different meeple scored in this turn, so in current run scored and more than one meeple, so no-one goes to bathhouse.

Message 8 applies scoring after the the game, where no bathhouse scoring or actions are applied (it affects completed features with one meeple only).

This said, Message 8 should not apply anything related to bathhouses in the scoring taking place.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 12, 2020, 05:25:31 AM
Do you receive 3 points for fairy if you use message 1, 2 or 3?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 12, 2020, 06:08:25 AM
[194.] The Barber-Surgeons: What happens if you score a meeple with the message 8?

The Barber-Surgeons: What happens if you score a meeple with the message 8?
We were playing this way that this is different meeple scored in this turn, so in current run scored and more than one meeple, so no-one goes to bathhouse.

Message 8 applies scoring after the the game, where no bathhouse scoring or actions are applied (it affects completed features with one meeple only).

This said, Message 8 should not apply anything related to bathhouses in the scoring taking place.

I don't know. Maybe we are plaing Message 8 wrong, but in rules is written:

( 8 ) Score a Meeple and Return it to your Supply: Choose one of your meeples in the play area. If you have the majority in the feature where this meeple is, score the area as you would at the end of the game but only you get points. Then return only your meeple that was on the feature back to your supply, even if it didn't score any points.

That Meeple is scored by end game scoring rules ( Message 8 ), it dosn't mean, that it can't go to bathhouse.

Rules for Barger-Surgeons are:
If there is only one Meeple involved in scoring a feature and if there is at least one free bathhouse, instead of returning the Meeple to your hand, you must place your Meeple sideways in (any) one of the free bathhouses (or in the only free bathhouse) immediately after the scoring. You score the feature as usual before doing so.

Question is, what means this rule by "scoring a feature". If it's only finishing Road / City / Monastery / Garden (what ever else) by rules scoring during a game, in this case. Meepledrone is right. If it's not so strict, than Meeple can go to bathhouse.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 12, 2020, 09:02:01 AM
I think no, because in this case the abbot is scored in step. 2, and the placing of a meeple on a bathhouse happens in step 3.

You are scoring a feature, so I guess, meeple goes to Bathhouse.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 12, 2020, 09:53:15 AM
[194.] The Barber-Surgeons: What happens if you score a meeple with the message 8?

The Barber-Surgeons: What happens if you score a meeple with the message 8?
We were playing this way that this is different meeple scored in this turn, so in current run scored and more than one meeple, so no-one goes to bathhouse.

Message 8 applies scoring after the the game, where no bathhouse scoring or actions are applied (it affects completed features with one meeple only).

This said, Message 8 should not apply anything related to bathhouses in the scoring taking place.

I don't know. Maybe we are plaing Message 8 wrong, but in rules is written:

( 8 ) Score a Meeple and Return it to your Supply: Choose one of your meeples in the play area. If you have the majority in the feature where this meeple is, score the area as you would at the end of the game but only you get points. Then return only your meeple that was on the feature back to your supply, even if it didn't score any points.

That Meeple is scored by end game scoring rules (Message 8 ), it dosn't mean, that it can't go to bathhouse.

Rules for Barger-Surgeons are:
If there is only one Meeple involved in scoring a feature and if there is at least one free bathhouse, instead of returning the Meeple to your hand, you must place your Meeple sideways in (any) one of the free bathhouses (or in the only free bathhouse) immediately after the scoring. You score the feature as usual before doing so.

Question is, what means this rule by "scoring a feature". If it's only finishing Road / City / Monastery / Garden (what ever else) by rules scoring during a game, in this case. Meepledrone is right. If it's not so strict, than Meeple can go to bathhouse.


The point is that the rules are written with the only base game in mind. That means that the rules only consider completed features being scored in phase 3. Scoring a feature. In this regard, you can see:
* The example with the small town

Quote
After scoring the small city, you place your Meeple in the bathhouse.

* The comments how to decide the order of scoring when about a tile completing several features with one tile placement.

Quote
If there are several features scored (by placing one single land tile) you have to consider the order in which the features are scored - the player who placed the land tile decides the order in which the scoring is carried out, as this may affect which meeples are placed in free bathhouses (if applicable).

If we put all this together, the rules talk about scoring features completed by tiles (involving one meeple). So this excludes any scoring triggered by other mechanisms:
* 1-point fairy bonus (no feature completed)
* Wheel of Fortune scoring (no feature completed)
* Wind rose bonus (a feature may be completed at this time but it is not scored here - this scoring is different)
* Removing the abbot
* Scoring an acrobat pyramid
* Scoring a shepherd and its flock
* Harvesting and selling fruit
* Scoring the big top
* Getting points from a bazaar action
* Getting points from the catapult
* Getting points as ransom for a captured meeple
 
As we are talking about completed features by tiles, this would exclude:
* Anything not scored as part of the feature itself but associated to a figure or token providing a side bonus:
   - The Tollhouse bonus
   - The Watchtower bonus
   - The teacher bonus
   - The Markets of Leipzig bonus for roads, cities and monastic buildings
   - The Ringmaster bonus
   - The 3-point scoring fairy bonus
   - The Darmstadt church bonus
* Scoring any features after the game, since the game has ended and all the regular mechanism in force during the game are suspended: placing tiles, placing meeples, messages, robbers, gold ingot collecting, to name a few, and therefore meeple trapping by bathhouses or meeple buy back from bathhouses.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 12, 2020, 10:18:47 AM
(193.) I think no, because in this case the abbot is scored in step. 2, and the placing of a meeple on a bathhouse happens in step 3.

You are scoring a feature, so I guess, meeple goes to Bathhouse.

Allow me to disagree if you please.

You are scoring a figure, the abbot, that happens to score in phase 2. Placing a meeple as an incomplete monastic building or garden at the end of the game without any possible bonus from phase 3. Scoring a feature. So these bonuses may not be applied:
* Monastic buildings with an abbot as a monk: no vineyards, Darmstadt church bonus, teacher bonus, Bookbinders bonus (Markets of Leipzig) or 3-point fairy scoring bonus,can be applied, for example.
* Gardens: no fairy bonus can be applied, for example.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 12, 2020, 11:54:06 AM
[195.] Do you receive 3 points for fairy if you use message 1, 2 or 3?

Yes, you may get the 3-point fairy scoring bonus when resolving Messages 1, 2 and 3.

These three messages let you pick an incomplete feature with one of your meeples so you score it as if after the game. You have to choose the feature worth the fewest points.

The rules for the 3-point fairy bonus indicate it applies to a meeple (with the fairy next to it) placed on a feature being scored, no matter if the meeple has the majority. This means the meeple receiving the bonus may be on:
* A complete feature scored during the game in phase 3. Scoring a feature (roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
* An incomplete feature scored after the game (roads, cities, monastic buildings, fields,...)

So, in our case, when scoring a feature when resolving messages 1, 2 or 3, that is, scoring it as if after the game, a meeple on it next to the fairy would get the 3-point fairy scoring bonus.

You can review the rules here:
* Messages 1, 2 and 3: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)
* The 3-point scoring fairy bonus:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 12, 2020, 11:57:25 AM
(193.) I think no, because in this case the abbot is scored in step. 2, and the placing of a meeple on a bathhouse happens in step 3.

You are scoring a feature, so I guess, meeple goes to Bathhouse.

Allow me to disagree if you please.

You are scoring a figure, the abbot, that happens to score in phase 2. Placing a meeple as an incomplete monastic building or garden at the end of the game without any possible bonus from phase 3. Scoring a feature. So these bonuses may not be applied:
* Monastic buildings with an abbot as a monk: no vineyards, Darmstadt church bonus, teacher bonus, Bookbinders bonus (Markets of Leipzig) or 3-point fairy scoring bonus,can be applied, for example.
* Gardens: no fairy bonus can be applied, for example.

Great. In this case, gardens give us more opportunities hot to get points without "swimming" of Abbot in bathhouse.

Good news.

Happy Easter ;-)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 12, 2020, 11:59:19 AM
[195.] Do you receive 3 points for fairy if you use message 1, 2 or 3?

Yes, you may get the 3-point fairy scoring bonus when resolving Messages 1, 2 and 3.

These three messages let you pick an incomplete feature with one of your meeples so you score it as if after the game. You have to choose the feature worth the fewest points.

The rules for the 3-point fairy bonus indicate it applies to a meeple (with the fairy next to it) placed on a feature being scored, no matter if the meeple has the majority. This means the meeple receiving the bonus may be on:
* A complete feature scored during the game in phase 3. Scoring a feature (roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
* An incomplete feature scored after the game (roads, cities, monastic buildings, fields,...)

So, in our case, when scoring a feature when resolving messages 1, 2 or 3, that is, scoring it as if after the game, a meeple on it next to the fairy would get the 3-point fairy scoring bonus.

You can review the rules here:
* Messages 1, 2 and 3: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)
* The 3-point scoring fairy bonus:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5)

And meeple is going or not going to bathhouse? By rules described before and message 1,2,3 is as scoring as end of game, it means, that meeplne is going back to player without staying in bathhouse, right?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 12, 2020, 12:05:31 PM
[195.] Do you receive 3 points for fairy if you use message 1, 2 or 3?

Yes, you may get the 3-point fairy scoring bonus when resolving Messages 1, 2 and 3.

These three messages let you pick an incomplete feature with one of your meeples so you score it as if after the game. You have to choose the feature worth the fewest points.

The rules for the 3-point fairy bonus indicate it applies to a meeple (with the fairy next to it) placed on a feature being scored, no matter if the meeple has the majority. This means the meeple receiving the bonus may be on:
* A complete feature scored during the game in phase 3. Scoring a feature (roads, cities, monastic buildings,...)
* An incomplete feature scored after the game (roads, cities, monastic buildings, fields,...)

So, in our case, when scoring a feature when resolving messages 1, 2 or 3, that is, scoring it as if after the game, a meeple on it next to the fairy would get the 3-point fairy scoring bonus.

You can review the rules here:
* Messages 1, 2 and 3: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)
* The 3-point scoring fairy bonus:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#3._Scoring_a_feature_5)

And meeple is going or not going to bathhouse? By rules described before and message 1,2,3 is as scoring as end of game, it means, that meeplne is going back to player without staying in bathhouse, right?

As per the rules for messages 1, 2 and 3, the meeple should stay on the feature.

You can review the rules here:
* Messages 1, 2 and 3:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 12, 2020, 01:05:40 PM
Of course ;-)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 14, 2020, 09:14:39 AM
All these tiles affects the castle?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 14, 2020, 09:23:27 AM
What happens with the watchtower if you transform (for example) this city in a castle?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 14, 2020, 11:32:07 AM
[196.] All these tiles affects the castle?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12643)

Yes, all those tiles are part of the castle fief in this case. There is no explicit rule or clarification for this case, but this is the interpretation of the rules based on the rules and clarifications existing for other features such as monasteries.

In the Bridges, Castles & Bazaars rules, you find the the castle fief is defined buy the six square spaces neighboring the castle:
(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/c/c5/Bridges_Castles_Bazaars_C2_Castles_Example_02.png)
With the addition of Halflings (and double-sized tiles by extension), you have to consider the tiles occupying the same 6 square spaces conforming the castle fief. Those spaces can be occupied by:
1. One square tile (the standard option)
2. One triangular tile
3. Two triangular tiles (in the same space)
4. One half of a double-sized tile (the tile will be considered in full, no matter if the the other half of the tile occupies an adjacent space belonging to the castle fief or not).

You can review here some feature adaptations to tiles with other geometries:
* C2 Halflings: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings)
* C2 German castles:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 14, 2020, 12:28:10 PM
[197.] What happens with the watchtower if you transform (for example) this city in a castle?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12644)

The rules of watchtower do not cover this case. They are written with the base game in mind and they also include that they will not provide clarifications about the combination with other expansions. This is the so called "Watchtowers disclaimer." :o

So what can we do about it? :(

Well, when reading the rules for the castles (in Bridges, Castles & Bazaars), you are presented with two options when completing a small city:
A) You score it normally.
B) You don't score it and place a token castle on top in order to create a new incomplete feature: a castle.

So option B) means you don't score the city. If so, you shouldn't score any bonuses triggered by the scoring of the city, including watchtowers.

You can revisit the rules for castles here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Close_a_small_city_and_place_a_castle (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#3._Close_a_small_city_and_place_a_castle)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 16, 2020, 11:16:32 AM
Do you receive points for vineyards if the monastery occupied by your abbot is surrounded by 9 tiles and one vineyard and you remove the abbot in steb 2B-1?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 16, 2020, 04:37:50 PM
[198.] Do you receive points for vineyards if the monastery occupied by your abbot is surrounded by 9 tiles and one vineyard and you remove the abbot in steb 2B-1?

If an abbot is removed from a completed monastery in phase 2. Placing a meeple, it will not get points for any adjacent vineyards, since the feature is not scored in phase 3. Scoring a feature where vineyards are applied.

It would be weird for a player to remove the abbot early and skip the vineyard bonus, but maybe trying to receive a dispatch or avoiding the dragon can be a reason to do so.

You can revisit the rules for the interaction here (I updated the wording closer to the German ones to avoid ambiguity):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#Vineyards_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#Vineyards_2)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 16, 2020, 04:49:51 PM
Can you send 2 meepls from the same road to Leipzig?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 16, 2020, 04:56:29 PM
[199.] Can you send 2 meepls from the same road to Leipzig?

No. You can only send one meeple per completed road to Leipzig.

However, if two or more players have the majority on a closed road, each player can decide whether to send one meeple to Leipzig. In this case, more than one meeple are sent to Leipzig but they all belong to different players.

You can revisit the rules here (check the notes after the example):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#3._Scoring_a_feature)
 
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on April 17, 2020, 11:40:38 AM
Can I eat a meeple of my supply in my turn?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: wolnic on April 17, 2020, 12:58:31 PM
Only the Gingerbread ones ... made using the cookie cutter on CundCo site

Although you could make jelly ones in the ice-cube mould ... can't see it on the CundCo site any more ...
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 17, 2020, 01:49:24 PM
Ha ha ha! You guys are incredible!  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on April 17, 2020, 02:44:43 PM
Only the Gingerbread ones ... made using the cookie cutter on CundCo site

Although you could make jelly ones in the ice-cube mould ... can't see it on the CundCo site any more ...

What a good idea!! :D ;)  Although I prefer the wood of the original meeples. Yummy !!  :P ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 18, 2020, 05:05:20 AM
Can you grow the flock/guide the flock to the stable and harvest/sell fruits in the same turn?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 18, 2020, 06:24:02 AM
[200.] Can you grow the flock/guide the flock to the stable and harvest/sell fruits in the same turn?

Yes, you can perform and a flock action and a fruit action in the same turn. The triggers for these actions are not mutually exclusive:
* Flock action: you extend or close a field
* Fruit action: you placed a meeple on a fruit-bearing tree tile or on adjacent tile.

Both actions can happen simultaneously when placing a tile.

You can revisit the rules here:
* Flock actions: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile)
* Fruit actions:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#Carrying_out_a_.22fruit_action.22 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#Carrying_out_a_.22fruit_action.22)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 19, 2020, 02:22:01 PM
What happens if you fly, place a meeple with the portal or place the wagon adjacent to a fruit-bearing tree?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Babycathannahthomas on April 19, 2020, 03:14:39 PM
I recently picked up Expansion 10 - Under the Big Top.

When you place a tile adjacent to an Acrobat tile does this allow you to place a meeple on ANY Acrobat tile?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 19, 2020, 03:40:35 PM
[201.] What happens if you fly, place a meeple with the portal or place the wagon adjacent to a fruit-bearing tree?

The rules specify that you have to place a tile (the fruit-bearing tree tile or one adjacent to it) and place a meeple on such tile in the same turn in order to trigger a fruit action. Thus the meeple placement would followed by the fruit action triggered in phase 2. Placing a meeple.

This would discard the three actions you mention:
* The flier and the magic portal: they allow you to place a meeple on a different tile from the one you just placed, so these placement options would not allow players to trigger a fruit action. Therefore, the sequence or actions is correct for this deployment methods but the target tile for the meeple would not match the requirements in the rules.
* The wagon movement happens in phase 3. Scoring a feature, one phase later than phase 2. Placing a meeple, when the fruit actions occurs. So probably you may have placed a new tile (a fruit-bearing tree tile or one adjacent to it) and move the wagon to it, but the sequence of actions is not the right one to trigger the fruit action: you would place the wagon on the tile after the fruit action could be triggered.

You can review the rules and also footnote #1 here:
* Fruit action triggering: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#Carrying_out_a_.22fruit_action.22 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#Carrying_out_a_.22fruit_action.22)
* Footnote #1
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#cite_note-1 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#cite_note-1)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 19, 2020, 03:58:20 PM
[202.] I recently picked up Expansion 10 - Under the Big Top.

When you place a tile adjacent to an Acrobat tile does this allow you to place a meeple on ANY Acrobat tile?

Hi Babycathannahthomas!

Congrats for your first post. Hope you enjoy the forum and all its contents about official rules, fan expansions, playing online... You name it.

Back to your question...

No, when you place a tile adjacent to one one more Acrobat tiles, you may only place a meeple on those adjacent acrobat tiles.

You can revisit the rules here - please check the sentence before Example 2):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#2._Placing_a_meeple_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#2._Placing_a_meeple_2)

Cheers!

PS: Whaaat?? This is my 1500th post. Can't believe it.  :o
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Babycathannahthomas on April 19, 2020, 05:55:50 PM
[202.] I recently picked up Expansion 10 - Under the Big Top.

When you place a tile adjacent to an Acrobat tile does this allow you to place a meeple on ANY Acrobat tile?

Hi Babycathannahthomas!

Congrats for your first post. Hope you enjoy the forum and all its contents about official rules, fan expansions, playing online... You name it.

Back to your question...

No, when you place a tile adjacent to one one more Acrobat tiles, you may only place a meeple on those adjacent acrobat tiles.

You can revisit the rules here - please check the sentence before Example 2):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#2._Placing_a_meeple_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#2._Placing_a_meeple_2)

Cheers!

PS: Whaaat?? This is my 1500th post. Can't believe it.  :o
First off, thank you for for responding. Also, congrats on achieving your 1500th post.

Second, I love Wikicarpedia.com. I have been using since I first picked up the base game. It has helped so much. So a BIG thank you to everyone who has worked on it, contributed to it, and maintains it.

Lastly, I do want to clarify what happens in a certain situation:
There are 2 meeples already on an Acrobat tile and I place a tile adjacent to that Acrobat tile. This new tile fills in the last empty space surrounding the Acrobat tile. I choose not to finish the pyramid. Are the meeples on the Acrobat tile now stuck there until the end of the game?

In short, can I trap an opponent's meeples on the Acrobat tile?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on April 19, 2020, 11:48:18 PM
[There are 2 meeples already on an Acrobat tile and I place a tile adjacent to that Acrobat tile. This new tile fills in the last empty space surrounding the Acrobat tile. I choose not to finish the pyramid. Are the meeples on the Acrobat tile now stuck there until the end of the game?

In short, can I trap an opponent's meeples on the Acrobat tile?
Oh yes!

(I'm sure there'll be an exception if you're using The Druid expansion and place a Phoenix Egg or whatever, but I'll let MeepleDrone cover those edge cases.)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 19, 2020, 11:58:34 PM
We are still playing Mega Carcassonne with a lot of expansions so it made some questions:
1. When you score Acrobats and active player have in pyramide Phantom, is allowed play with Phantom Step2B-2?
2. Dragon is eating all meeples on tile? So if there is for example Big Meeple on Field, Meeple on Road and Phantom on City?
3. When player play Tower, how many meeples can catch, one and decide which one, on all of them on Tile?
4. In Watchtowers is written, when you have Meeple on Watchtower, it means, if it's in City or Road on a tile connected to Watchtower. When I have it on City and city is finished
a) got player with meeple on watchtower extra points by watchtower symbon evan if player have no majority?
b) when city is finished, and all meeples from city is given to their players, player lost watchtower - just confirm
c) is it possible to go to watchtower by magic portal if City or road is not finished and it's not accupied by other meeples?
5. Can eat Dragon meeples in Bathhouse (Barber-Surgeons)

My answers with pure knowledge of rules was during game
1. Yes
2. Everyone with are not on diet
3. Here I'm not sure
4a) yes
4b) yes
4c) yes
5. Yes even if not only one meeple on tile (look at question 2)

Thanks
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 20, 2020, 01:17:17 AM
"Exp. 4 - The Tower: If you capture an acrobat with the tower, you can choose any meeple in the pyramid (regardless of its position)."
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 20, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
Watchtower
"1 point for each tile showing at least one road". Wooden bridges?
You place a tile, which finish a road occupied by blue and a city occupied by your ringmaster, which is placed on a watchtower tile. Which is the correct order?
a) 1. You score the watchtower; 2. the city, the road; 3. the ringmaster;
b) 1. You score the road; 2. (the watchtower, the city and then the ringmaster)/You score 1. (the watchtower, the city and then the ringmaster); 2. the road;
c) 1. You score the watchtower; 2. the road, (the city, the ringmaster).
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 20, 2020, 01:35:18 AM
"You may only reposition a ferry only once per turn." Can you move the ferry from the first position to the second position?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: danisthirty on April 20, 2020, 06:21:30 AM
IS THERE ANY WAY OF ACCESSING THE ZOMBIES ON PARTS OF THE SCHOOL WITH 3 OR MORE ZOMBIES SO THAT THE ZOMBIE DRAW PILE DOESN'T RUN OUT TOO QUICKLY IN ZOMBIE KIDZ? OR IS IT SIMPLY THAT I SHOULD AVOID LETTING THIS HAPPEN AT ALL COSTS?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Decar on April 20, 2020, 09:03:26 AM
WHAT SIZE ARE GERMAN CASTLES?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on April 20, 2020, 09:10:15 AM
Why meeples are meeples?? Why?? I can’t sleep...


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: totor66 on April 21, 2020, 05:54:26 AM
serious one, sorry :)

I was playing on Jcloisterzone and I am having doubts on this case.

An unoccupied monastery was finished next to my incomplete shrine and I was awarded 0 points and my follower was removed. I thought it was just about challenge and meeple on both structures but seems like I was mistaken

I tried to read wikicarpedia several times but couldn't find answer
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 10:22:51 AM
[202.] I recently picked up Expansion 10 - Under the Big Top.

When you place a tile adjacent to an Acrobat tile does this allow you to place a meeple on ANY Acrobat tile?

Hi Babycathannahthomas!

Congrats for your first post. Hope you enjoy the forum and all its contents about official rules, fan expansions, playing online... You name it.

Back to your question...

No, when you place a tile adjacent to one one more Acrobat tiles, you may only place a meeple on those adjacent acrobat tiles.

You can revisit the rules here - please check the sentence before Example 2):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#2._Placing_a_meeple_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#2._Placing_a_meeple_2)

Cheers!

PS: Whaaat?? This is my 1500th post. Can't believe it.  :o
First off, thank you for for responding. Also, congrats on achieving your 1500th post.

Second, I love Wikicarpedia.com. I have been using since I first picked up the base game. It has helped so much. So a BIG thank you to everyone who has worked on it, contributed to it, and maintains it.

Hi Babycathannahthopmas!

Thank you for your kind words on behalf of the whole team. Much obliged! ;D

We are always looking for feedback to improve its contents.

As you may have seen, this topic has become great source to validate an interesting number of interactions lately...  O0

Thanks for participating.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
[203.] Lastly, I do want to clarify what happens in a certain situation:
There are 2 meeples already on an Acrobat tile and I place a tile adjacent to that Acrobat tile. This new tile fills in the last empty space surrounding the Acrobat tile. I choose not to finish the pyramid. Are the meeples on the Acrobat tile now stuck there until the end of the game?

In short, can I trap an opponent's meeples on the Acrobat tile?

Yes, you can trap meeples in an incomplete pyramid if no tiles can be placed adjacent to the acrobat tile. This would mean those acrobats would stay in the pyramid until the end of the game...

...unless you play with any of the following expansion that would allow you to:
* Add a new meeple to a pyramid by other placement methods:
   - Magic portals (C1/C2 Exp. 3 - The Princess & the Dragon)
   - Flying machines (C1/C2 Mini #1 - The Flier (Flying Machines)
* Remove a meeple from the pyramid without scoring it:
   - Use the dragon (C1/C2 Exp. 3 - The Princess & the Dragon) - all meeples in the tile removed
   - Capture an acrobat (C1/C2 Exp. 4 - The Tower)
   - Use a festival (C1/C2 The Festival)
   - Use the plague (C1 The Plague)
   - Use the Pest sector in the Wheel of Fortune (C1 The Wheel of Fortune)
   - Use a Knock out token (C1 The Catapult)
   - Use the Vodyanoy tile (C1 Russian Promos) - all meeples in the tile trapped by can be retrieved one at a time
* Exchange a meeple in a pyramid for another meeple:
   - Use a Seduction token (C1 The Catapult)
   - Swap followers with La Porxada (C1 La Porxada)
* Score and remove a meeple from the pyramid
   - Receive Message 8 (Mini #2 - The Messages (C1/C2 Dispatches)

After all, it seems you have some options to recover your meeples trapped in a pyramid with the right expansions. ;)

You can revisit the acrobat placement rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#2._Placing_a_meeple_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#2._Placing_a_meeple_2)

[There are 2 meeples already on an Acrobat tile and I place a tile adjacent to that Acrobat tile. This new tile fills in the last empty space surrounding the Acrobat tile. I choose not to finish the pyramid. Are the meeples on the Acrobat tile now stuck there until the end of the game?

In short, can I trap an opponent's meeples on the Acrobat tile?
Oh yes!

(I'm sure there'll be an exception if you're using The Druid expansion and place a Phoenix Egg or whatever, but I'll let MeepleDrone cover those edge cases.)

I think we all agree here!  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 12:36:23 PM
[204.] We are still playing Mega Carcassonne with a lot of expansions so it made some questions:
1. When you score Acrobats and active player have in pyramide Phantom, is allowed play with Phantom Step2B-2?
2. Dragon is eating all meeples on tile? So if there is for example Big Meeple on Field, Meeple on Road and Phantom on City?
3. When player play Tower, how many meeples can catch, one and decide which one, on all of them on Tile?
4. In Watchtowers is written, when you have Meeple on Watchtower, it means, if it's in City or Road on a tile connected to Watchtower. When I have it on City and city is finished
a) got player with meeple on watchtower extra points by watchtower symbon evan if player have no majority?
b) when city is finished, and all meeples from city is given to their players, player lost watchtower - just confirm
c) is it possible to go to watchtower by magic portal if City or road is not finished and it's not accupied by other meeples?
5. Can eat Dragon meeples in Bathhouse (Barber-Surgeons)

My answers with pure knowledge of rules was during game
1. Yes
2. Everyone with are not on diet
3. Here I'm not sure
4a) yes
4b) yes
4c) yes
5. Yes even if not only one meeple on tile (look at question 2)

Thanks

1. Yes, you can place your phantom again right after the acrobat pyramid is scored since this evaluation takes place in Step 2B-1 (step for first figure (or token ;)) placement). The meeples in the pyramid are returned to their owners in this step, so that active player could retrieve their phantom and place it again in Step 2B-2.

You can check the order of play here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)



2. Yes, the dragon will eat any meeple on a tile, no matter its location or type. If a meeple is located on a castle overlapping the tile, the meeple will be safe as the castle is not placed in a particular tile.

You can see the dragon's menu and diet plan and the features providing protection in full detail here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29)



3. You can capture one meeple per tower piece placed. You can choose any meeple in range. So, if you add a third tower piece to a tower, you may capture one meeple on any tile with distance 0 (the tower tile), 1, 2 or 3 horizontally or vertically from the tower.

You can review the rules and examples here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor)



4.a) Yes, the player on the watchtower tile in the city scores the bonus, no matter if the player has the majority or not.

You can review the watchtower scoring rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature)



4.b) Yes, you may not score the watchtower again for that particular city.

However, there are tiles with multiple feature segments sharing the same watchtower. This is one example with two city segments and one road segment: 
(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/0/06/Watchtowers_C2_Tile_F.jpg)
With the right expansions, you could place multiple meeples on those tiles and therefore score the same watchtower multiple times:
* Exp. 3 - The Princess & the Dragon: you may use a magic portal to place a meeple on a city or road segment with a watchtower on an unoccupied city.
* Mini #1 - The Flier (Flying machines): you may place multiple meeples on the same tile and even on the same feature segment, allowing you to score the same watchtower from the same feature. Each meeple would score the same watchtower once even on the same feature segment. This is not in the rules (remember the disclaimer: at your own risk  ;)), but watchtowers are scored by figures on the watchtower tile. It the meeples share the same feature segment, each meeple should be scored individually, the same as they would be placed on separate features.
* Mini #7 - The Crop Circles: you may place an additional meeple next to a another meeple located on a watchtower tile. So each meeple (even on the same feature) would score individually (see previous bullet about Mini #1)
* The Phantom: You may place a second meeple on the same watchtower tile, allowing you to score the same watchtower multiple times.

You can review the watchtower scoring rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature)



4.c) Yes, you can deploy meeples with different methods to a watchtower tile, for example a magic portal, a flying machine or a crop circle. Please check my comments in the previous response.



5) Yes, the dragon will eat any meeples on a tile it is placed, no matter what feature they are on. Just as a reminder, there are some features that will protect meeples because they are not assigned to a particular tile: castles, the school, the City of Carcassonne, the City of Leipzig and the Wheel of Fortune.

You can check what's on the dragon's menu and what's not here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
[205.] "Exp. 4 - The Tower: If you capture an acrobat with the tower, you can choose any meeple in the pyramid (regardless of its position)."

Yes, you can choose the acrobat in a pyramid you want to capture with a tower.

Please check this interaction clarified in the rules between expansion 4 and 10:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 01:10:54 PM
[206.] "1 point for each tile showing at least one road". Wooden bridges?

Bridges are considered as printed road segments, so the watchtower scoring for road segments would consider bridges too.

This is not in the rules of the The Watchtowers, as they are written with the base game in mind, but the rules for Exp. 8 - Castles, Bridges and Bazaars explain that:
* "...You can place your meeple (or another figure) on the bridge as if it were a road."
* "Bridges are scored like tiles with a road on them."
This means they are equivalent for all purposes.

You can review the rules and clarifications for bridges here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#2._Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#2._Placing_a_meeple)



[207.] You place a tile, which finish a road occupied by blue and a city occupied by your ringmaster, which is placed on a watchtower tile. Which is the correct order?
a) 1. You score the watchtower; 2. the city, the road; 3. the ringmaster;
b) 1. You score the road; 2. (the watchtower, the city and then the ringmaster)/You score 1. (the watchtower, the city and then the ringmaster); 2. the road;
c) 1. You score the watchtower; 2. the road, (the city, the ringmaster).

Option b) is correct. You score each feature with the associated bonus individually.
Feature 1 - Blue's road: road feature scoring
Feature 2 - Your city: watchtower bonus + city feature scoring + ringmaster bonus

As the active player, you may decide the order of evaluation of the features according to your preference:
Option 1: Feature 1 + Feature 2
Option 2: Feature 2 + Feature 1

The order may be unimportant unless you are playing with any of these expansions:
* Mini #6 - The Robbers: the order of evaluation affects the points stolen by players.
* The Barber-Surgeons: the order of evaluation decides the meeples to be trapped in empty bathhouses.

You can check the Order of Play to check how features are scored individually:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

Edit: Renamed option to avoid confusion with two sets of a) and b) enumerations.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 21, 2020, 01:14:32 PM
2. Yes, the dragon will eat any meeple on a tile, no matter its location or type. If a meeple is located on a castle overlapping the tile, the meeple will be safe as the castle is not placed in a particular tile.

You can see the dragon's menu and diet plan and the features providing protection in full detail here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29)


What about tile with German castle? This is standard "tile" in meaning for Dragon expansion, but only difference is that double sized?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 01:24:15 PM
[208.] "You may only reposition a ferry only once per turn." Can you move the ferry from the first position to the second position?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12662)

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12663)

Yes, the rules have only one restriction: you may only move a ferry connected to the road you are extending. There is no restriction about the ends allowed to be connected after moving it. For example, there is no restriction forcing you to move just one end and maintaining the other connected to its previous road (like pivoting on one end).

You can revisit the annotated rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Ferries#1._Extending_a_road_with_a_ferry_on_it_.5B4.5D (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Ferries#1._Extending_a_road_with_a_ferry_on_it_.5B4.5D)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
(204.)2. Yes, the dragon will eat any meeple on a tile, no matter its location or type. If a meeple is located on a castle overlapping the tile, the meeple will be safe as the castle is not placed in a particular tile.

You can see the dragon's menu and diet plan and the features providing protection in full detail here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#2b._The_dragon.27s_menu_.28what_the_dragon_eats.29)


What about tile with German castle? This is standard "tile" in meaning for Dragon expansion, but only difference is that double sized?

German castles do not protect meeples on the castle itself or any feature on the tile. The castle is located on a tile, even if it is a double-sized tile. Only castles from Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles & Bazaars protect the meeples in them.

You can check the clarification about this case here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon)

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Decar on April 21, 2020, 02:16:15 PM

German castles do not protect meeples on the castle itself or any feature on the tile. The castle is located on a tile, even if it is a double-sized tile. Only castles from Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles & Bazaars protect the meeples in them.

You can check the clarification about this case here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon)

...sigh...
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 02:34:39 PM
[209.] serious one, sorry :)

I was playing on Jcloisterzone and I am having doubts on this case.

An unoccupied monastery was finished next to my incomplete shrine and I was awarded 0 points and my follower was removed. I thought it was just about challenge and meeple on both structures but seems like I was mistaken

I tried to read wikicarpedia several times but couldn't find answer

This seems a bug in JCZ.

A challenge requires a monk and a heretic on adjacent features. So no meeple on one of them means no challenge.

If you check the rules, there may be several outcomes:
* The challenge is interrupted (ends without resolution) if one of the figure is removed (a dragon, a removed abbot,... you name it)
* The challenge ends and one of the meeples wins: one meeple scores 9 points, the other scores 0 points, and both meeples are removed.
* The challenge ends with a tie: both meeples score 9 points and then they are removed.

Normally the challenge is declared with the direct placement of a figure on a newly placed tile. When a challenge is interrupted, it can be restarted with the placement of a new meeple on the vacated monastery or shrine by means of a magic portal or a flying machine.

In a nutshell, a challenge needs the presence of meeples on both features. If one is missing, no challenge can be triggered or, if started, it ends without resolution.

You can review the rules here:
* Basic challenge rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic)
* Additional interactions:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 02:35:16 PM

German castles do not protect meeples on the castle itself or any feature on the tile. The castle is located on a tile, even if it is a double-sized tile. Only castles from Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles & Bazaars protect the meeples in them.

You can check the clarification about this case here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon)

...sigh...

I know, I know... you are in pain.  O0
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 21, 2020, 04:47:51 PM
"2 points for each meeple". What happens if you score before scoring the watchtower a road on which there is a meeple situated in watchtower's area?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 22, 2020, 12:43:32 AM
"2 points for each meeple". What happens if you score before scoring the watchtower a road on which there is a meeple situated in watchtower's area?

Please describe this situation, becaouse scoring by watchtower is befor scoring of finished features (roads, cities, ...)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 22, 2020, 12:48:55 AM
Quote
Option b) is correct. You score each feature with the associated bonus individually.
Feature 1 - Blue's road: road feature scoring
Feature 2 - Your city: watchtower bonus + city feature scoring + ringmaster bonus
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on April 22, 2020, 02:06:17 AM

German castles do not protect meeples on the castle itself or any feature on the tile. The castle is located on a tile, even if it is a double-sized tile. Only castles from Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles & Bazaars protect the meeples in them.

You can check the clarification about this case here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Dragon)

...sigh...
Hahahaha me too

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Decar on April 22, 2020, 02:26:40 AM
"2 points for each meeple". What happens if you score before scoring the watchtower a road on which there is a meeple situated in watchtower's area?

Please describe this situation, becaouse scoring by watchtower is befor scoring of finished features (roads, cities, ...)

If a watchtower scores before a feature scores, what happens when two watchtowers score at the same time, and you are using the Messengers expansion?


Thanks for taking all this time to consider my question Meepledrone (and others).  It's very much appreciated.
17 thumbs up from me:
 :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y)
Don't ask me where I got them.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: danisthirty on April 22, 2020, 02:33:28 AM
I've only been following this thread for a couple of days, but the pace here has been relentless in terms of the number of different questions posed and Meepledrone's impressive response times, thorough answers and general consistency throughout. I'm amazed at the amount of effort you're going to here Hector, keep up the good work!

But while I'm at it, in the case that the dragon has accidentally used a flying machine to reach the scoretrack, what happens to any Robber figures that get eaten? Do they return to the 0 space? What if the dragon is on the 0 space when someone completes a circuit of the scoretrack?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Halfling on April 22, 2020, 05:31:57 AM
I've only been following this thread for a couple of days, but the pace here has been relentless in terms of the number of different questions posed and Meepledrone's impressive response times, thorough answers and general consistency throughout. I'm amazed at the amount of effort you're going to here Hector, keep up the good work!

But while I'm at it, in the case that the dragon has accidentally used a flying machine to reach the scoretrack, what happens to any Robber figures that get eaten? Do they return to the 0 space? What if the dragon is on the 0 space when someone completes a circuit of the scoretrack?

In the case of a Welsh Dragon: Red meeples are ok to pass, but any other colour meeples are eaten whether Robber, messenger or standard.

In the case of either the Romanian Longhorn or the Swedish Short Snout: Blue or Yellow meeples are ok to pass.

Finally, in the case of a Smothering Smokebreath: Grey or Black meeples are ok to pass.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 23, 2020, 03:47:59 AM
[209.] serious one, sorry :)

I was playing on Jcloisterzone and I am having doubts on this case.

An unoccupied monastery was finished next to my incomplete shrine and I was awarded 0 points and my follower was removed. I thought it was just about challenge and meeple on both structures but seems like I was mistaken

I tried to read wikicarpedia several times but couldn't find answer

This seems a bug in JCZ.

A challenge requires a monk and a heretic on adjacent features. So no meeple on one of them means no challenge.

If you check the rules, there may be several outcomes:
* The challenge is interrupted (ends without resolution) if one of the figure is removed (a dragon, a removed abbot,... you name it)
* The challenge ends and one of the meeples wins: one meeple scores 9 points, the other scores 0 points, and both meeples are removed.
* The challenge ends with a tie: both meeples score 9 points and then they are removed.

Normally the challenge is declared with the direct placement of a figure on a newly placed tile. When a challenge is interrupted, it can be restarted with the placement of a new meeple on the vacated monastery or shrine by means of a magic portal or a flying machine.

In a nutshell, a challenge needs the presence of meeples on both features. If one is missing, no challenge can be triggered or, if started, it ends without resolution.

You can review the rules here:
* Basic challenge rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic)
* Additional interactions:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2)

I reported this issue yesterday so farin (the JCZ lead developer) can have a look at it. I just checked and he planned the fix for v5.0.

I also reported another issue: A shepherd does not allow you to place a farmer on the same field. However, you can place a shepherd on a field with a farmer. Fixed planned for v5.0 too.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: totor66 on April 23, 2020, 09:34:47 AM
Funny that those were my 2 questions on this topic :)

Playing too much on it for the last week's helps discovering bugs :)

Thank you for reporting that to him, wanted to do it at some point.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 23, 2020, 10:21:44 AM
No problem... I had some issues to report and seemed active yesterday, so why not?  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 23, 2020, 11:25:16 AM
[210.] "2 points for each meeple". What happens if you score before scoring the watchtower a road on which there is a meeple situated in watchtower's area?

(210.) "2 points for each meeple". What happens if you score before scoring the watchtower a road on which there is a meeple situated in watchtower's area?

Please describe this situation, becaouse scoring by watchtower is befor scoring of finished features (roads, cities, ...)

My understanding of the question is the following:
* You complete complete a city with a watchtower scoring per adjacent meeple, and a neighboring road.
* Question: Does the order of evaluation impact the scoring of the watchtower?

Example: Red completes a city with a watchtower and also Yellow's road.
(https://i.imgur.com/wtBdKJ5.jpg)

Answer: Yes, the order of evaluation here is important, since any meeples removed from adjacent tiles to the watchtower as a consequence of a previous scoring won't be taken into consideration.

So the active player will have to decide the order of evaluation carefully, since it may affect the total of points scored. If playing with Mini #2 - The Messages and/or Mini #6 - The Robbers, this decision will also decide the reception of a dispatch and/or what points are stolen by robbers)

Evaluation order #1:

* Road scored first: Yellow scores 5 points. The yellow meeple on the road is removed.
* City scored last: Red scores 12 points. The red meeple in the city is removed.
   - Watchtower: 3 meplees left x 2 points / meeple = 6 points
   - City feature scoring: 3 tiles x 2 points / tile = 6 points

Evaluation order #2:

* City scored first: Red scores 14 points. The red meeple in the city is removed.
   - Watchtower: 4 meplees x 2 points / meeple = 8 points
   - City feature scoring: 3 tiles x 2 points / tile = 6 points
* Road scored last: Yellow scores 5 points. The yellow meeple on the road is removed.

As you can see, the result depends on the evaluation order. Depending on the expansions used, you may be interested in applying Evaluation Order #1 (less points) or Evaluation Order #2 (more points), for example, to allow a robber to steal less points or to receive a message.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 23, 2020, 11:39:01 AM
(207.)

Quote
Option b) is correct. You score each feature with the associated bonus individually.
Feature 1 - Blue's road: road feature scoring
Feature 2 - Your city: watchtower bonus + city feature scoring + ringmaster bonus

I don't know if you wanted a more detailed response for this. Hope this helps...

As indicated in answer #207, this is how each feature should be scored individually out of any context. The active player will have to decide the order of evaluation according to their preference. You may decide the order of evaluation of the features according to your preference:

* Option 1: Feature 1 + Feature 2, where the scoring events would be:
   - Blue's road:
       - Road feature scoring (1)
   - Your city:
       - Watchtower bonus (2)
       - City feature scoring (3)
       - Ringmaster bonus (4)

* Option 2: Feature 2 + Feature 1, where the scoring events would be:
   - Your city:
       - Watchtower bonus (1)
       - City feature scoring (2)
       - Ringmaster bonus (3)
   - Blue's road:
       - Road feature scoring (4)

Each scoring event marked with number (1) to (4) will be scored independently and following that order in each option.

You can revisit the Order of Play to check how multiple features are scored:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 23, 2020, 11:40:04 AM
"If you have a highwayman on more than one road, you must choose the road that would be worth the fewest points."
"(3) Smallest Monastery: The same as Message 1, but for monasteries, instead of roads."
You have 2 monasteries: A (5 tiles with normal meeple) and B (4 tiles with ringmaster (4 points).
You must choose the monastery that would be worth the fewest points.
Which monastery you can choose?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 23, 2020, 11:58:51 AM

[211. See below]

"2 points for each meeple". What happens if you score before scoring the watchtower a road on which there is a meeple situated in watchtower's area?

(211.)  Please describe this situation, becaouse scoring by watchtower is befor scoring of finished features (roads, cities, ...)

If a watchtower scores before a feature scores, what happens when two watchtowers score at the same time, and you are using the Messengers expansion?

Remember that you receive a message ant the end of a round of scoring. This means all features and bonuses are scored first and then you check what scoring figured you did move. If any of them, after moving this round of scoring, ended up on a dark space you will receive a message.

Therefore, intermediate scorings during the round of scoring do not count, just the location of your (moved) scoring figures at the end.

All in all, you will have to decide the order of evaluation of any features scored and their bonuses (including any watchtowers), if they are not commutative in order to maximize your options to receive a dispatch. For example, watchtowers may score for meeples in their vicinity, and some of them may be removed when scoring multiple completed features.

You can revisit the clarifications related to rounds of scoring here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

Does this answer your question?

Thanks for taking all this time to consider my question Meepledrone (and others).  It's very much appreciated.
17 thumbs up from me:
 :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y) :(y)
Don't ask me where I got them.

My pleasure! You must have a box somewhere in your Man Cave... The Thumb Box, right?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 23, 2020, 12:10:11 PM
I've only been following this thread for a couple of days, but the pace here has been relentless in terms of the number of different questions posed and Meepledrone's impressive response times, thorough answers and general consistency throughout. I'm amazed at the amount of effort you're going to here Hector, keep up the good work!

Thank you, Dan, for you kind words! I know you are a hard-core base game player but as you can see, there is fun out there in the maze of rules HiG has left behind for us. Thank you for joining us in this modest thread.  ;D

I will have to do some housekeeping eventually and organize somehow all the info contained here...

But while I'm at it, in the case that the dragon has accidentally used a flying machine to reach the scoretrack, what happens to any Robber figures that get eaten? Do they return to the 0 space? What if the dragon is on the 0 space when someone completes a circuit of the scoretrack?

Well, I think you may apply all the storytelling concepts included in the Santa, Snowman & Grinch fan expansion where the fun happens both on the scoreboard and on the playing area....

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=395 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=395)

But you are the one to blame as always, not the dragon when the robbers meet Vodyanoy and they party together in the dragon's lair.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 23, 2020, 12:43:28 PM
[212.a] "If you have a highwayman on more than one road, you must choose the road that would be worth the fewest points."

You must choose the road that would score the fewer points at the end of the game. For example, if you have an incomplete road with an inn, that would be the one for 0 points. If you are not happy with that, you may choose to score the 2 points indicated on the message tile.

You can revisit Message (1) rules (read near the end of the box for interactions with Exp. 1 - Inns & Cathedrals) here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)

[212.b] "(3) Smallest Monastery: The same as Message 1, but for monasteries, instead of roads."
You have 2 monasteries: A (5 tiles with normal meeple) and B (4 tiles with ringmaster (4 points).
You must choose the monastery that would be worth the fewest points.
Which monastery you can choose?

Ha ha ha! This is a tricky one.

There is no official rule or clarification for this interaction.

Monastery B scores less points (4 points) than monastery A (5 points), the ringmaster bonus (4 points) go to the ringmaster. So as per the rules, you should only consider the points associated with the feature itself, although in this case, it looks like cheating.  ;)

You can revisit Message (3) rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#The_Messages_Tiles)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 24, 2020, 05:03:31 PM
I reply here to questions asked by stano.lacko in another thread...

But I have a question.
[213.] 1. When you use princes and remove kight, you are not able to use phantom
-yes

Correct. Removing a knight with a princess tile does not allow you to use your phantom to claim the city if unoccupied after the the knight removal. The rules don't want you to make things that easier for players.

See the interaction of princess tiles with The Phantom here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Princess (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Princess)

[214.] 2. When you return abbot or accrobats, only allowed placing meeple is phantom in phase 2B-2
-yes

Yes, except after removing a knight with a princess tile, the phantom can be placed as a second figure after any figure placement, figure scoring, figure removing or token placement taking place in step 2B-1. Remember that you may decide to take no action in step 2B-1, so it would seem that you only place your phantom in your turn (as it were the first figure).

The Order of Play is a great place to see all this in perspective:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) 

[215.] 3. You are able to to take sheeps from fields when you put meeple? Is there change between C1 and C2?
-we were playing that if not place a meeple than you are able to take sheeps from field

No rules have changed about shepherds and their sheep. The only limitation existing in the rules is that you place your shepherd (and draw your first sheep token) in step 2B-1, so you cannot perform any other action in that step, such as, placing farmer.

You will be able to score the shepherd's flock (action "Guide flock to stable") when:
- Right after placing the shepherd, if the field chooses is closed (an inner field or a field just closed, that is, surrounded by roads and city walls).
- In later turns, when the field is extended or it is closed and cannot be extended in later turns.

The automatic scoring for shepherds and their flock avoid they can be trapped in a closed field.

The Order of Play is also a great place to see all this in perspective:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play) 

[216.] 4. You are able to dispatch message
a) fairy bonus
b) place wind rose tile
c) before resolve finished features (affection by sheeps, acrobats, abbot, fruits)
d) when I reboy in step2 my meeple in bathhouse and I move back one of scoring meeple and goest to dark place in scoreboard I still dispatch message?
e) after resolving all of finished features and moved big top?

Yes to options a), b), c) and e)
No to d) , if you move backwards one of your scoring figures, no round of scoring is associated to that event. So you would not receive a message even if you land on a dark space on the scoreboard.

Please check the clarification about rounds of scoring here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 25, 2020, 01:03:46 AM
Thank you for answer. That 4d for rebuy was just tricky question. I know, scoring meeple is going backward, but why not to ask ;-)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 25, 2020, 06:21:07 AM
This is a free forum! You can ask whatever you want about Carcassonne here.  ;)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 26, 2020, 02:27:45 AM
What happens (monastery and shrine) if you remove the monk/heretic (abbot or message 8 )?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 26, 2020, 03:43:49 AM
[217.] What happens (monastery and shrine) if you remove the monk/heretic (abbot or message 8)?

As I commented in reply #209 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.msg67737#msg67737), a challenge requires a monk and a heretic on adjacent features. So no meeple on one of them means no challenge.

If you check the rules, an ongoing challenge may have several outcomes:
* The challenge is interrupted (ends without resolution) if one of the figure is removed (a dragon, a removed abbot, message 8 resolution... you name it)
* The challenge ends and one of the meeples wins: one meeple scores 9 points, the other scores 0 points, and both meeples are removed.
* The challenge ends with a tie: both meeples score 9 points and then they are removed.

Normally the challenge is declared with the direct placement of a figure on a newly placed tile. When a challenge is interrupted, it can be restarted with the placement of a new meeple on the vacated monastery or shrine by means of a magic portal or a flying machine.

In a nutshell, a challenge needs the presence of meeples on both features. If one is missing, no challenge can be triggered or, if started, it ends without resolution.

You can review the rules here:
* Basic challenge rules:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#2._Placing_a_meeple_as_a_heretic)
* Additional interactions:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_cultists_2)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 26, 2020, 04:03:10 AM
But you receive points if you remove the abbot or use the message 8?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 26, 2020, 04:21:22 AM
(217.) But you receive points if you remove the abbot or use the message 8?

Yes, the usual ones for those actions and the challenge stops. This means that the remaining monk or heretic will score its feature according to the usual rules.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 26, 2020, 02:38:18 PM
What happens if you remove an red abbot from a monastery occupied by this abbot and a blue big meeple?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 26, 2020, 04:39:04 PM
[218.] What happens if you remove an red abbot from a monastery occupied by this abbot and a blue big meeple?

There is no written rule for this interaction, but if you check the Order of Play you can see that, when you remove an abbot from a monastery, you are carrying out the scoring of a figure in phase 2. Placing a meeple so no majority is applied. We are not scoring a feature like in phase 3. Scoring a feature.

In this scenario, you will remove and score the red abbot, and the blue large meeple will stay on the monastery until:
* The feature is completed with the blue large meeple and it is scored
* The blue large meeple is removed from the monastery as a result of an action associated to an expansions that allows to remove it (scoring it or not)
* The feature ends up incomplete with the blue large meeple and it is scored at the end of the game

In the case you keep both figures on the monastery until it is scored, Blue would have the majority and would score the monastery. Red's abbot would score 0 points for the monastery.

More than one figure on the same monastery can happen when playing with Mini #1 - The Flier (Flying Machines). The rules didn't cover this case but monasteries are assumed to apply majority as any other feature when scored. Monasteries are usually occupied by only one meeple. When flying a meeple to a special monasteries (German monasteries, Dutch & Belgian monasteries or Japanese buildings) you will have the option to places it as:
* A monk on an incomplete monastery
* An abbot on an incomplete or even complete monastery.

Placing meeples as abbots on a spacial monastery would open additional scenarios where both the red abbot meeple and the blue large meeple could be independently placed as monks or as abbots. An abbot meeple could be placed as a monk or as an abbot. So if you remove the abbot meeple placed as an abbot, you would score it as you would at the end of the game (but no majority applied).

You can revisit the Order of Play here:
* Order of Play: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
* Scoring rules for abbot meeple:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#3._Scoring_with_the_Abbot (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#3._Scoring_with_the_Abbot)
* Mini #1 and special monasteries:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#The_Flying_Machines (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#The_Flying_Machines)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Vital Pluymers on April 27, 2020, 03:44:41 AM
[218.] What happens if you remove an red abbot from a monastery occupied by this abbot and a blue big meeple?

There is no written rule for this interaction, but if you check the Order of Play you can see that, when you remove an abbot from a monastery, you are carrying out the scoring of a figure in phase 2. Placing a meeple so no majority is applied. We are not scoring a feature like in phase 3. Scoring a feature.

In this scenario, you will remove and score the red abbot, and the blue large meeple will stay on the monastery until:
* The feature is completed with the blue large meeple and it is scored
* The blue large meeple is removed from the monastery as a result of an action associated to an expansions that allows to remove it (scoring it or not)
* The feature ends up incomplete with the blue large meeple and it is scored at the end of the game

In the case you keep both figures on the monastery until it is scored, Blue would have the majority and would score the monastery. Red's abbot would score 0 points for the monastery.


You can revisit the Order of Play here:
* Order of Play: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
* Scoring rules for abbot meeple:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#3._Scoring_with_the_Abbot (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#3._Scoring_with_the_Abbot)
* Mini #1 and special monasteries:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#The_Flying_Machines (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#The_Flying_Machines)

Interesting case here would be when Red leaves his abbot there until the round in which Red completes the monastery. The wording in WICA is not completely clear on this special case. The correct interpretation imho would be:
Red places his tile in step 1C, then has the option to remove and score his abbot in step 2B-1b. Finally Blue can score his big meeple in Step 3B.
If Red decides not to remove his abbot, Blue gets the full points in Step 3B.

In the Order of Play is written in Step 1Cb: Note: any tile-based feature that is finished is considered complete at this time.
In the rules of The Abbot is written in footnote 13: Once completed, a monastery or garden with several meeples will be scored taking into account the majority on the feature.


So, this might falsely lead to the interpretation that you cannot remove your abbot once the monastery is completed by covering the eight space (C2 wording  >:D ) with a tile.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 27, 2020, 06:35:38 AM
(218.)
[218.] What happens if you remove an red abbot from a monastery occupied by this abbot and a blue big meeple?

There is no written rule for this interaction, but if you check the Order of Play you can see that, when you remove an abbot from a monastery, you are carrying out the scoring of a figure in phase 2. Placing a meeple so no majority is applied. We are not scoring a feature like in phase 3. Scoring a feature.

In this scenario, you will remove and score the red abbot, and the blue large meeple will stay on the monastery until:
* The feature is completed with the blue large meeple and it is scored
* The blue large meeple is removed from the monastery as a result of an action associated to an expansions that allows to remove it (scoring it or not)
* The feature ends up incomplete with the blue large meeple and it is scored at the end of the game

In the case you keep both figures on the monastery until it is scored, Blue would have the majority and would score the monastery. Red's abbot would score 0 points for the monastery.


You can revisit the Order of Play here:
* Order of Play: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
* Scoring rules for abbot meeple:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#3._Scoring_with_the_Abbot (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#3._Scoring_with_the_Abbot)
* Mini #1 and special monasteries:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#The_Flying_Machines (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#The_Flying_Machines)

Interesting case here would be when Red leaves his abbot there until the round in which Red completes the monastery. The wording in WICA is not completely clear on this special case. The correct interpretation imho would be:
Red places his tile in step 1C, then has the option to remove and score his abbot in step 2B-1b. Finally Blue can score his big meeple in Step 3B.
If Red decides not to remove his abbot, Blue gets the full points in Step 3B.

In the Order of Play is written in Step 1Cb: Note: any tile-based feature that is finished is considered complete at this time.

This "trivial" note is important for magic portals and flying machines because you cannot use them to place a meeple on a feature you just completed with a tile placement. For example, this means that you cannot use a magic portal to deploy a monk to an unoccupied monastery you just completed (with the magic portal tile). Likewise for flying machines (no matter if the destination feature is occupied or not).

In the rules of The Abbot is written in footnote 13: Once completed, a monastery or garden with several meeples will be scored taking into account the majority on the feature.

So, this might falsely lead to the interpretation that you cannot remove your abbot once the monastery is completed by covering the eight space (C2 wording  >:D ) with a tile.

OK, think the following wording for footnote 13 may be better: When scored during or after the game, a monastery or garden with several meeples will take into account the majority on the feature.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 27, 2020, 07:37:32 AM
So, what was answer, did red player points or not?

In case, that he remove abbot in phase 2B-1.
Can he do this also when he complete monastery with last tile before phase 3?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 27, 2020, 08:48:39 AM
But I have new question:
When I place a tile which is finishing road where a have a meeple.
Can I place in phase 2B-1 Fairy to meeple which is on finished road. And in phase 3 got extra 3 points becaouse fairy stay behing my meeple?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 27, 2020, 01:45:35 PM
(218.) So, what was answer, did red player points or not?

Hi, I include an excerpt of my original response...

[218.] What happens if you remove an red abbot from a monastery occupied by this abbot and a blue big meeple?

...
In this scenario, you will remove and score the red abbot, and the blue large meeple will stay on the monastery until:
* The feature is completed with the blue large meeple and it is scored
* The blue large meeple is removed from the monastery as a result of an action associated to an expansions that allows to remove it (scoring it or not)
* The feature ends up incomplete with the blue large meeple and it is scored at the end of the game
...

The answer: yes, you can remove the red abbot in phase 2B-1 and score it normally. This action is not affected by the presence of other meeples on the same monastery: majority does not apply.



[219.] In case, that he remove abbot in phase 2B-1.
Can he do this also when he complete monastery with last tile before phase 3?

Yes, even if the monastery is completed, you can remove the abbot in step 2B-1. There is no restriction in the rules to prevent you from doing it. In a scenario where multiple meeples can be deployed to a monastery, this can be an option to score points when:
* There are several meeples placed on the monastery (and you don't have the majority) due to flying machines.
* Other players can deploy meeples to the monastery from the City of Carcassonne (Exp. 6) and modify the majority right before scoring.

Please review this clarification for the abbot:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13)

You can also review these rules:
* Mini #1 - The Flier (Flying Machines):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#The_Flying_Machines (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Monasteries#The_Flying_Machines)
* Scoring with The Count of Carcassonne (exp. 6):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 27, 2020, 02:09:00 PM
@meepledrone Thanks for answer!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 27, 2020, 02:38:48 PM
We were playing with daughter again, and we were play Barber Surgeons.
We found a question:
When you finish feature and take down shepherd, two meeples scrore.
But Shepherd is not scored by finishing feature, so onle one meeples score by finishing feature, so he will go to bathhouse if it's empty.
Right?
But when you close field with tile with finishing feature. Is it finishing of field? Or just automatic trigger of action: Shepherd guides the flock to the stable?
And another question:
When you take down Abbot like in previous case, is not affected by baths in case that
a) is taken down from table before finish garden or monastery?
b) is taken down from table before finish garden or monastery and also other meeplse finish feature, so two meeples scores, but one by not finishing feature (not count as meeple finishing feature) and second by finishing feature (so goes to baths, because is only one)?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 27, 2020, 02:53:15 PM
Quote
The answer: yes you can remove the red abbot[/u] in phase 2B-1 and score it normally. This action is not affected by the presence of other meeples on the same monastery: majority does not apply.
„exactly like how monasteries are scored during the final scoring.” At the final scoring the majority is applied.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 27, 2020, 04:24:22 PM
Quote
(218.) The answer: yes you can remove the red abbot[/u] in phase 2B-1 and score it normally. This action is not affected by the presence of other meeples on the same monastery: majority does not apply.
„exactly like how monasteries are scored during the final scoring.” At the final scoring the majority is applied.

You should check the sentence completely, you just included the last part so some part of the context is missing:
Quote
If you do so, you score as many points as the garden or monastery your abbot occupied is worth at that time, exactly like how monasteries are scored during the final scoring.

So the sentence tells you the the abbot would receive as many points as a monastery or garden is worth at the end of the game.

The sentence doesn't tell you that you score the abbot as a monastery or garden at the end of the game, that is, including majority in the equation.

When you score an abbot, you score an independent figure (in phase 2. Placing a meeple). You are not scoring the feature it is on (in Phase 3. Scoring a feature or at the end of the game). I think the confusing part is that the figure (when removed and scored) and the feature it is on receive the same number of points... but the context and the scoring mechanism is totally different.

The previous wording was taken form the BB6 rules by ZMG. Here you are the equivalent text translated from the German rules by HiG, that seems clear to me:
Quote
Whenever you don't place a Meeple in 2. Placing a meeple, you may take your Abbot from the board back into your supply. You will then immediately receive the points that the monastery or garden is worth at that moment, which corresponds to the value of the feature at the end of the game. At the end of the game the abbot is scored like a normal monk.

So as you can see, the German rules don't mention full scoring either. Just how you tally the points.

Therefore the sentence "exactly like how monasteries are scored during the final scoring" should be read  as "exactly like how monasteries are worth during the final scoring" in this context.

ZMG just got creative and rehashed the paragraph. As a consequence, we are having this discussion on the implications of something not even considered in the base game or the abbot rules but possible in BB6: monasteries or gardens with multiple meeples.

Welcome to the wonderful world of misleading translations and their consequences!

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 27, 2020, 10:53:29 PM
But I have new question:
When I place a tile which is finishing road where a have a meeple.
Can I place in phase 2B-1 Fairy to meeple which is on finished road. And in phase 3 got extra 3 points becaouse fairy stay behing my meeple?

And this?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 28, 2020, 02:38:05 AM
[220.] But I have new question:
When I place a tile which is finishing road where a have a meeple.
Can I place in phase 2B-1 Fairy to meeple which is on finished road. And in phase 3 got extra 3 points becaouse fairy stay behing my meeple?

(220.)
But I have new question:
When I place a tile which is finishing road where a have a meeple.
Can I place in phase 2B-1 Fairy to meeple which is on finished road. And in phase 3 got extra 3 points becaouse fairy stay behing my meeple?

And this?

Yes, the sequence of actions is valid:
* On previous turns: You have a meeple placed on an incomplete road.
* Current turn:
   - Phase 1. Placing a tile: You place a tile and complete the given road.
   - Phase 2. Placing a meeple: You place the fairy next to the meeple on the road just completed.
   - Phase 3. Scoring a feature: You score the completed road and get the 3-point fairy scoring bonus.

There is no restriction in the rules that prevent you from doing this. Actually, this sequence would help you protect your meeple about to score the road from the dragon just in case it is in the vicinity.

Of course, this sequence also works for any feature.

You can revisit the fairy rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_fairy (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#The_fairy)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 28, 2020, 02:38:42 AM
@meepledrone Thanks for answer!

No problem. My pleasure!  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 28, 2020, 04:54:35 AM
[221.] We were playing with daughter again, and we were play Barber Surgeons.
We found a question:
When you finish feature and take down shepherd, two meeples scrore.
But Shepherd is not scored by finishing feature, so onle one meeples score by finishing feature, so he will go to bathhouse if it's empty.
Right?
But when you close field with tile with finishing feature. Is it finishing of field? Or just automatic trigger of action: Shepherd guides the flock to the stable?

Some comments first:
* Shepherds are not meeples. They special figures, the same as pigs, builders and barns. They belong to a player but they can neither claim a feature nor participate with votes for majority on it.
* Fields can be closed (that is, surrounded by roads and city walls) but this doesn't mean that they are completed. Closed fields do not trigger any feature scoring (for the field itself or a castle, for example). However they will trigger the automatic scoring of shepherds placed in it, so shepherds cannot be trapped in a closed field. The scoring of the shepherd will be conducted by performing the "Guide the flock to the stable" action automatically.

So, in your example, two separate scoring events take place:
* You score the shepherd (a special figure) placed in the field just closed. This happens in phase 2. Placing a meeple where bathhouses are not considered. (Note: A shepherd is not a meeple and couldn't go to a bathhouse in any case).
* You score the feature just completed with your meeple. This happens in phase 3. Scoring a feature where bathhouses are considered. In this case, if a bathhouse is empty, your meeple would be moved there.

You can revisit the rules for the shepherd here and especially the exception explained near the end of the box along with some related clarifications:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Hills_%26_Sheep#1._Placing_a_tile)



[222.] And another question:
When you take down Abbot like in previous case, is not affected by baths in case that
a) is taken down from table before finish garden or monastery?
b) is taken down from table before finish garden or monastery and also other meeplse finish feature, so two meeples scores, but one by not finishing feature (not count as meeple finishing feature) and second by finishing feature (so goes to baths, because is only one)?

Only features scored in phase 3. Scoring a feature are affected by bathhouses. The abbot removal and scoring takes place in phase 2. Placing a meeple and it doesn't interact with bathhouses.

If the abbot shares the monastery or garden with another meeple when it is completed, as you mention, you could remove the abbot in phase 2. Placing a meeple and score it without the influence of bathhouses. Then the other meeple would score points for the completed feature in phase 3. Scoring a feature, and possibly go to an empty bathhouse, if any available.

You can revisit the rules here:
* Abbot scoring: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#3._Scoring_with_the_Abbot (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#3._Scoring_with_the_Abbot)
* Bathhouse action after scoring a feature:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#3._After_scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#3._After_scoring_a_feature)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on April 28, 2020, 09:47:26 AM
Holy patience you have meepledrone.
+1 merit for your patience !!
You have repeated it a thousand times. I think if it is not clear there is nothing to do.  >:D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 28, 2020, 10:07:32 AM
Maybe he has just templates ;-)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 28, 2020, 10:19:44 AM
Ha ha ha!

Nope. I right it every time from scratch. And for what you see written there is plenty I discard when I digress too much.  :o

For example, the answer to the last explanation to question
#218 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.msg67926#msg67926) was much much longer: I had even extracted excerpts from the abbot rules in the base game manuals too. After all that was written, I discarded it all to concentrate on the wording used in WICA and its meaning.

This is like an archeological excavation... The entrance to the treasure chamber must be somewhere under this pile of rules.  ;)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 28, 2020, 10:37:25 AM
Yeah, that was joke ;-)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on April 28, 2020, 11:08:35 AM
Message 8: What happens if you have 2 meeples?
Message 8: You play with red. There are 2 red meeples and 2 blue meeples in a city. Can you score one of the meeples with the message 8?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 28, 2020, 11:54:41 AM
When it will be end of game, it will be tie, and you will get points from this city.
When you use scoring of one of these meeplse, you will get points, but than you loose majority in city for future scoring.

C1:
( 8 ) Score a follower and remove it from the board
The player chooses one of his or her followers in play. If the player has the majority in the feature where the selected follower stands, he or she scores that feature (only for himself or herself) as if it were the end of the game. The player then puts the chosen follower back in his or her supply.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages_(1st_edition))


C2:
( 8 ) Score a Meeple and Return it to your Supply: Choose one of your meeples in the play area. If you have the majority in the feature where this meeple is, score the area as you would at the end of the game but only you get points. Then return only your meeple that was on the feature back to your supply, even if it didn't score any points.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages)

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 30, 2020, 12:46:26 AM
[223.a] Message 8: What happens if you have 2 meeples?
[223.b] Message 8: You play with red. There are 2 red meeples and 2 blue meeples in a city. Can you score one of the meeples with the message 8?

I would just like to add a couple of comments to Bumsakalaka's reply.  ;)

(223.a) When it will be end of game, it will be tie, and you will get points from this city.

Unless you decide to score 2 points instead of carrying out the action, Message ( 8 ) rules tell you to:
1. Pick a meeple placed on a feature
2. If you have the majority in the feature --> Score as many points at it would be worth at the end of the game
3. If you don't have the majority in the feature --> Score 0-points
4. Remove the meeple you selected. The other meeples belonging to you and the other player stay on the feature undisturbed.

The rules for majority are the same during the game and after the game. What it may differ is the way the you score a feature during the game and after the game. But you apply scoring after the game as the feature is incomplete. 

If you have two regular meeples, there will be a tie. If so, you will have the majority and will score the feature as indicated by Message ( 8 ).

As an additional note, you may have two meeples of different types and circumstances that may alter the majority:
- A regular meeple on the tile with a hill may break the tie and give you the majority against the other player.
- A large meeple instead of a regular meeple will give you the majority against the other player.
- A mayor instead of a regular meeple will provide as many majority votes as the number of coats of arms in a city. Depending on the case, you may win, tie or lose the majority.

(223.a) When you use scoring of one of these meeplse, you will get points, but than you loose majority in city for future scoring.

As I commented earlier, depending on the circumstances, you may not even lose the majority in the city after removing your meeple (unless more meeples join the city, of course). This may happen with the large meeple and the mayor.

C1:
( 8 ) Score a follower and remove it from the board
The player chooses one of his or her followers in play. If the player has the majority in the feature where the selected follower stands, he or she scores that feature (only for himself or herself) as if it were the end of the game. The player then puts the chosen follower back in his or her supply.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages_(1st_edition))


C2:
( 8 ) Score a Meeple and Return it to your Supply: Choose one of your meeples in the play area. If you have the majority in the feature where this meeple is, score the area as you would at the end of the game but only you get points. Then return only your meeple that was on the feature back to your supply, even if it didn't score any points.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages)


You have to tell me more about this WICA site...  8)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 30, 2020, 02:00:54 AM
I tried to help, but you are more preciously, because majority is majority (but with explanation of rules about Big Meeple and Meeple on Hill sounds "posh" :-D )
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on April 30, 2020, 02:05:56 AM
I tried to help, but you are more preciously, because majority is majority (but with explanation of rules about Big Meeple and Meeple on Hill sounds "posh" :-D )

And your response was okay. Just wanted to clarify the majority thing, but then it occurred to me that we were assuming two regular meeples, so why not exploring other options for fun?... Just an intellectual experiment  ;)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on May 04, 2020, 02:03:33 PM
How can I propose a new expansion?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on May 04, 2020, 03:11:06 PM
How can I propose a new expansion?

What do you mean? Creating a fan expansion?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on May 04, 2020, 03:25:56 PM
Both: fan and real.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on May 04, 2020, 04:00:12 PM
How can I propose a new expansion?

What do you mean? Creating a fan expansion?

Both: fan and real.

Official expansions are released by HiG but they don't accept any more ideas for Carcassonne. I the past you could submit ideas to them and they could used them or not.

For fan expansions, you can submit you ideas in the Expansion Workshop board on CarcC. You can develop the idea on your own or ask for help or support from other members. They can help you develop the idea, collaborate with the graphics, editing the rules in the fan expansion format, proofreading the rules, play testing... whatever you need. You can see all the bubbling activity taking place currently at the workshop.

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?board=7.0 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?board=7.0)

The only limit is your imagination and using graphics coming from Carcassonne tiles or created by you. If you need third party graphics you can use some copyleft graphics available on the internet that match the style of the edition. Keep always track of the source to ensure you have no copyright issues.

Is this what you wanted to know?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on May 04, 2020, 04:11:54 PM
Quote
Is this what you wanted to know?
Yes.

Quote
Official expansions are released by HiG but they don't accept any more ideas for Carcassonne.
Why?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on May 05, 2020, 05:38:09 AM
Quote
Is this what you wanted to know?
Yes.

Quote
Official expansions are released by HiG but they don't accept any more ideas for Carcassonne.
Why?

I quote the HiG page discussing Submission Guidelines...

https://www.hans-im-glueck.de/en/verlag/autorenleitfaden.html (https://www.hans-im-glueck.de/en/verlag/autorenleitfaden.html)

Quote
EXPANSIONS AND CARCASSONNE

We are also interested in ideas for expansions. However, ideas for expansions are not always unique. Sometimes it happens that we get similar ideas multiple times and often the author of the game had similar ideas for an expansion.

We want to treat everybody who submits his ideas with respect. We have to mention, however, that you are not implicitly the author of a game idea if you have submitted an idea with a resembling title or resembling game mechanics. This is important for expansions and especially for Carcassonne.

Therefore we won't look at expansion ideas for Carcassonne anymore!

If you have developed a Carcassonne expansion feel free to share it on www.carcassonnecentral.com, www.carcassonne-forum.de or other forums. Sometimes ideas shared there, reach us as we cooperate with these forums.

Any commercial use of the Carcassonne trademark is strictly prohibited and will result in legal action.

So, if you want to create expansions for Carcassonne, you are in the right track.  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: totor66 on May 09, 2020, 07:23:01 AM
Sorry for the question if it was already asked but I can't picture this specific case.

The message saying we play another turn immediately, let's say I score an abbot by removing it earlier from a cloister, if I understood rules correctly and draw this specific message, I play a new turn immediately without finishing the first one.

Then we start a turn within the turn right ? And when that turn finishes, do we go back to the point where we left the first one ? Like let's say we play with phantom I could still put it on the tile placed on the turn when I removed the abbot ?

Or I just misunderstood it and the second turn acts like double turn builder at the end of first one ?

The first options seems to me the correct one but damn it's complicated to keep track of it
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on May 09, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
The Abbot removal take place during 2B-1, but the messages form step 2 are received between 2C and 2D (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play).
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: DrMeeple on May 09, 2020, 07:51:43 AM
The Abbot removal take place during 2B-1, but the messages form step 2 are received between 2C and 2D (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play).
Well done Carcassonne93!! :)


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: totor66 on May 09, 2020, 12:02:12 PM
Yes on that my bad, but my question was more like. Does the extra turn given by the message interrupts the turn and we come back to that point after the end of the message turn ?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on May 09, 2020, 12:04:18 PM
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.105. The last comment.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on May 11, 2020, 07:52:09 AM
[224.a] Sorry for the question if it was already asked but I can't picture this specific case.

The message saying we play another turn immediately, let's say I score an abbot by removing it earlier from a cloister, if I understood rules correctly and draw this specific message, I play a new turn immediately without finishing the first one.

Then we start a turn within the turn right ? And when that turn finishes, do we go back to the point where we left the first one ? Like let's say we play with phantom I could still put it on the tile placed on the turn when I removed the abbot ?

Or I just misunderstood it and the second turn acts like double turn builder at the end of first one ?

The first options seems to me the correct one but damn it's complicated to keep track of it

(224.a) The Abbot removal take place during 2B-1, but the messages form step 2 are received between 2C and 2D (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play).

[224.b] Yes on that my bad, but my question was more like. Does the extra turn given by the message interrupts the turn and we come back to that point after the end of the message turn ?

(224.b) http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.105. The last comment.

Carcassonne93 was directing you to answer #172:

[172.] And what happens if you receive the message 4 between step 2 and 3? The step 3 is postponed?

The turn sequence would be the following:
- You resolve step 1A for the normal turn. You receive message 4 and perform a full nested turn for the message
- You resolve step 1B for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 1C for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 2 for the normal turn.
   - You resolve step 1A for message 4. (It's a full turn)
   - You resolve step 1B for message 4.
   - You resolve step 1C for message 4.
   - You resolve step 2 for message 4.
   - You resolve step 3 for message 4.
   - You resolve step 4, if applicable, for message 4. (You may even enjoy a double turn)
- You resolve step 3 for the normal turn.
- You resolve step 4, if applicable, for the normal turn.

You can check here more info about the rounds of scoring:
* Rounds of Scoring: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring
* Order of Play: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play

Messages in their basic form don't seem that complicated but the nesting of turns due to one or more chained messages (especially when they happen in the middle of a turn), or even the nesting of complete rounds due to a bazaar can complicate thinks a bit... above all when adding to the mix double turns thanks to the builder, Message #4 or the Saint Nicholas Scoreboard ;)

Lovely, isn't it?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on May 11, 2020, 03:36:14 PM
... editing the rules in the fan expansion format ...
Is there a template of some kind? Can you share a link to the post that contains it? (I find myself thinking it would be nice to create a pdf using such a template to contain the order of play for my specific set of expansions.)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on May 11, 2020, 04:26:55 PM
You'll find what you are looking for here.  ;D

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;cat=24 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;cat=24)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: cicerunner on May 11, 2020, 11:10:14 PM
Thanks so much MeepleDrone.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on May 19, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
Can you (red) deploy a meeple from the City of Carcassonne in a city in which there is only one blue big meeple, score no points and place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne (is your turn; the city is the single feature scored in this turn), all in the same turn?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on May 19, 2020, 02:05:04 PM
[225.] Can you (red) deploy a meeple from the City of Carcassonne in a city in which there is only one blue big meeple, score no points and place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne (is your turn; the city is the single feature scored in this turn), all in the same turn?

As per the Order of Play , this would be a valid sequence. The objective? Moving one meeple from a district to a different one or changing one of meeples you had in the city of Carcassonne.

Have you ever used this sequence?

You can revisit the Order of Play here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on May 30, 2020, 11:20:52 AM
Can you place the tollhouse on a just "completed" village (a village with all roads completed in the same turn)?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 30, 2020, 11:49:29 AM
@Meepledrone will cite rules. But I can say, yes.
Rules don't contain any "word" about finished / not finished /completed / not completed road in phase 2 (placing a meeple).

Eventualy you can move tollhouse to before completed crossroad, but it has no sense.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on May 31, 2020, 07:29:41 AM
[226.] Can you place the tollhouse on a just "completed" village (a village with all roads completed in the same turn)?

(226.) @Meepledrone will cite rules. But I can say, yes.
Rules don't contain any "word" about finished / not finished /completed / not completed road in phase 2 (placing a meeple).

Eventualy you can move tollhouse to before completed crossroad, but it has no sense.

Not much to add...  ;)

You can place a tollhouse on top of a village even if the tile completes one, several or even all the roads connected to the village. As Bumsakalaka mentioned already, the rules don't contain any restriction in this regard. It is an action you may perform instead of placing a meeple (or a figure or another token), and you can place a meeple on a road just completed in the same turn if unoccupied.

You can revisit the tollhouse token placement rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#2._Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#2._Placing_a_meeple)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 31, 2020, 07:48:48 AM
It bring me guestion
Q1: Can be tollhouse placed by Flying tile with dice.
A: Tollkeeper is token, not meeple - no

Q2: If I made Tollkeepers as meeple with Tollhouse in 3D printer or buy some on e-shop with sign 1/2 to small/big blind (ops it's another game) toll.
A:
a) Officialy no
b) by house rules yes
c) by new fan-expansion YES

I think I have to finish this idea as expansion for Tollkeepers which we spoke on czech Carc forum Discord channel
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on June 01, 2020, 03:57:32 PM
[227.] It bring me guestion
Q1: Can be tollhouse placed by Flying tile with dice.
A: Tollkeeper is token, not meeple - no

Tollhouse token can be placed on (and moved to) any crossroads with a village. So there is no need of Flying Machines or Magic Portals for them. The "teleporting" mechanism is already built-in.  ;)

You can revisit the tollhouse placement rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#2._Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#2._Placing_a_meeple)

[228.] Q2: If I made Tollkeepers as meeple with Tollhouse in 3D printer or buy some on e-shop with sign 1/2 to small/big blind (ops it's another game) toll.
A:
a) Officialy no
b) by house rules yes
c) by new fan-expansion YES

I think I have to finish this idea as expansion for Tollkeepers which we spoke on czech Carc forum Discord channel

I don't understand this question:
* Are you just suggesting the creation of a new special figure, a "tollkeeper", to replace the token?
* Are you suggesting the creation of a new fan expansion to provide additional mechanics to the "tollkeeper" figure?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on June 01, 2020, 11:48:25 PM
[227.] It bring me guestion
Q1: Can be tollhouse placed by Flying tile with dice.
A: Tollkeeper is token, not meeple - no

Tollhouse token can be placed on (and moved to) any crossroads with a village. So there is no need of Flying Machines or Magic Portals for them. The "teleporting" mechanism is already built-in.  ;)

You can revisit the tollhouse placement rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#2._Placing_a_meeple (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tollkeepers#2._Placing_a_meeple)

Yes. I forgot ;-)

[228.] Q2: If I made Tollkeepers as meeple with Tollhouse in 3D printer or buy some on e-shop with sign 1/2 to small/big blind (ops it's another game) toll.
A:
a) Officialy no
b) by house rules yes
c) by new fan-expansion YES

I think I have to finish this idea as expansion for Tollkeepers which we spoke on czech Carc forum Discord channel

I don't understand this question:
* Are you just suggesting the creation of a new special figure, a "tollkeeper", to replace the token?
* Are you suggesting the creation of a new fan expansion to provide additional mechanics to the "tollkeeper" figure?

Yes. We were talking on some expansion which will be expansion for Tollkeepers also available to play only with basic game (and others expansions) which will include also Tax Collector and Taxes & Tolls fan expansions. But not yet clear with mechanism ;-)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on June 02, 2020, 03:51:34 AM
Yes. We were talking on some expansion which will be expansion for Tollkeepers also available to play only with basic game (and others expansions) which will include also Tax Collector and Taxes & Tolls fan expansions. But not yet clear with mechanism ;-)

Just in case you need a little inspiration, check this out: Tax Collector by Kevin Graham (a figure-only fan expansion)...

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=122 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=122)

You can post any ideas you have on the Expansion Workshop and let magic happen...  ;)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on June 02, 2020, 04:20:37 AM
Yes I mentioned it, also other Taxes & Tolls
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=435
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on June 02, 2020, 06:28:39 AM
Ah, OK. I thought you were just mentioning the concepts in a broad sense...
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Nazarentsy on June 26, 2020, 11:45:35 AM
Hello. Some questions:

1) how does work “solovey-razboinik” with labyrinth?

2) about castle and fairy:

“The occupier of the structure and the occupier of the castle both receive the full score [30] for the structure (This is after any bonuses or penalties (such as the Cathedral or Witch) are accounted for.“

What is about fairy? For example: BLUE completes his city and scores 20 points + 3 points for fairy. As a segment of the city lies on a tile (6) adjacent to the castle, and it is the first structure to be completed since the castle was built, RED also receives 23 points. I am right?

3) phantom and tower. Is it correct to place figures as in the picture

4) scoring two labyrinths. Example: there are five meeple standing on the FIRST labyrinth and on a connected road AND there are five meeple standing on the SECOND labyrinth and on a connected road. The player with the majority on the labyrinth and the connected roads will get 1 point for each tile as usual. In addition, he or she will get 2 points for each meeple standing on the labyrinth or on a connected road.
10 points or 20?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on June 26, 2020, 12:36:24 PM
1) I think that the labyrinth is a single road.
2) If the castle belong to RED, then RED receive only 20 points, because the fairy points are not part of the feature (same for ringmaster points). Blue receive 20 points and 3 points (not 23; this is important if you play with The Messages or/and The Robbers).
3) What is the picture?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Nazarentsy on June 26, 2020, 11:01:15 PM
1) I think that the labyrinth is a single road.
2) If the castle belong to RED, then RED receive only 20 points, because the fairy points are not part of the feature (same for ringmaster points). Blue receive 20 points and 3 points (not 23; this is important if you play with The Messages or/and The Robbers).
3) What is the picture?

1) maybe “solovey” acts on a connected road, but not the all labyrinth.
2) I understood it. Thank you.
3) the picture is attached to my last post.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on June 27, 2020, 12:57:24 AM
To picture.
Yes, it's correct move.
Tower floor is places in Step 2B-1 - Move the Wood (Phase 1) - here you places neutral wood - tower floor
Phantom is places in Step 2B-1 - Move the Wood (Phase 2) - Place the phantom in the same way as a normal meeple on feature or Deploy a phantom to a tower floor

Phantom and any other wood can not be placed when you place tile with Princess and you remove Knight from city. Whole Step 2B-1 and Step 2B-2 is skipped.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on June 27, 2020, 07:22:27 AM
Hello. Some questions:

Hi there!

Nice!  ;D



[228] 1) how does work “solovey-razboinik” with labyrinth?

1) I think that the labyrinth is a single road.

1) maybe “solovey” acts on a connected road, but not the all labyrinth.

As Carcassonne93 points out, a road network with one or more labyrinths is a single feature with special placement rules with the advanced rules. Labyrinth tiles work like:
* a normal 4-legged roundabouts with the basic rules (the whole road network can be claimed by one meeple only); or
* a "fuzzy" 4-legged roundabouts with the advanced variant rules (the labyrinth tiles relax the meeple placement constraints and labyrinth tiles and road segments connected to them can be claimed independently)

Moreover, road networks with labyrinths are also scored as one single feature where the whole road network is one large road with several branches.

Being one single feature, the whole road network with labyrinth tiles will be affected by the Solovei Razboynik tile.

You can revisit the rules for The Labyrinths here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Labyrinths (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Labyrinths)



[229] 2) about castle and fairy:

“The occupier of the structure and the occupier of the castle both receive the full score [30] for the structure (This is after any bonuses or penalties (such as the Cathedral or Witch) are accounted for.“

What is about fairy? For example: BLUE completes his city and scores 20 points + 3 points for fairy. As a segment of the city lies on a tile (6) adjacent to the castle, and it is the first structure to be completed since the castle was built, RED also receives 23 points. I am right?

2) If the castle belong to RED, then RED receive only 20 points, because the fairy points are not part of the feature (same for ringmaster points). Blue receive 20 points and 3 points (not 23; this is important if you play with The Messages or/and The Robbers).

2) I understood it. Thank you.

Nothing to add here. ;D

You can check here what feature points a castle can get:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2)

All other bonus points (Gingerbread Man, watchtowers, tollhouses, fairy, ringmaster, teacher, Markets of Laipzig, Darmstadt church bonus,...) are associated to figures/tokens placed on (or neighboring) the feature, so they are not part of the primary feature score the castle would receive.

A different discussion is if the castle lord can score the points (it is not a mayor) or it may benefit from some bonus points if the fairy is assigned to it, for example.

You can see a full detail of the scoring sequence for each feature here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence)



[230] 3) phantom and tower. Is it correct to place figures as in the picture

3) What is the picture?

3) the picture is attached to my last post.

To picture.
Yes, it's correct move.
Tower floor is places in Step 2B-1 - Move the Wood (Phase 1) - here you places neutral wood - tower floor
Phantom is places in Step 2B-1 - Move the Wood (Phase 2) - Place the phantom in the same way as a normal meeple on feature or Deploy a phantom to a tower floor

Phantom and any other wood can not be placed when you place tile with Princess and you remove Knight from city. Whole Step 2B-1 and Step 2B-2 is skipped.

Well said.  ;)

You can check the Order of Play with full detail of this sequence here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

I also added a clarification to WICA based on this example (scroll down to The Phantom):  ;D
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#Other_expansions (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#Other_expansions)



[231] 4) scoring two labyrinths. Example: there are five meeple standing on the FIRST labyrinth and on a connected road AND there are five meeple standing on the SECOND labyrinth and on a connected road. The player with the majority on the labyrinth and the connected roads will get 1 point for each tile as usual. In addition, he or she will get 2 points for each meeple standing on the labyrinth or on a connected road.
10 points or 20?

You may have 5 meeples "around" each labyrinth but you actually have a single road network with 10 meeples. So you score the whole road network as a single feature when completed. The player(s) with the majority in the road network will score N points for the tiles + 10 meeples x 2 points = N + 20 points.

So you don't spit the road into subnetworks when scoring due to the presence of labyrinth tiles nor you stack the labyrinths tiles.

This case is not documented but applying the principles found in other expansions, Labyrinth tiles do not stack, the same as inns on roads. A road network with more than one labyrinth will be scored as one single feature and the additional points provided per meeple will be received only once for the whole road network, not once per labyrinth tile.

You can revisit the rules of The Labyrinths here, including a clarification I added related to this question:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Labyrinths (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Labyrinths)



Hope this helps!  :)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Nazarentsy on June 27, 2020, 12:24:43 PM
Thank you very much!!!


Moreover, road networks with labyrinths are also scored as one single feature where the whole road network is one large road with several branches.

Being one single feature, the whole road network with labyrinth tiles will be affected by the Solovei Razboynik tile.


One more question please:
Let's say "a labyrinth tiles work like "fuzzy" 4-legged roundabouts with the advanced variant rules" and Player adds a "solovey-razboinik" to an unoccupied labyrinth exit as shown in the picture. Do All players have to move their figures to the tile "Solovey" or only black player have to move the meeple on the right? Then all players must move them onto the tile "Solovey" when labyrinth will be complited.

PS: sorry for my bad English.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on June 27, 2020, 01:18:08 PM
Thank you very much!!!

Our pleasure!

This has been a collective effort ;D


Moreover, road networks with labyrinths are also scored as one single feature where the whole road network is one large road with several branches.

Being one single feature, the whole road network with labyrinth tiles will be affected by the Solovei Razboynik tile.


[232.] One more question please:
Let's say "a labyrinth tiles work like "fuzzy" 4-legged roundabouts with the advanced variant rules" and Player adds a "solovey-razboinik" to an unoccupied labyrinth exit as shown in the picture. Do All players have to move their figures to the tile "Solovey" or only black player have to move the meeple on the right? Then all players must move them onto the tile "Solovey" when labyrinth will be complited.

PS: sorry for my bad English.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12863;image)

Picture a Labyrinth tile like a Spiel 18 tile, they are the same except for the meeple placement rules in the advanced variant rules.

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/7/73/EssenSpiel_2018.png)

If you replace the labyrinth tile in the image by the Spiel 18 tile, all the meeples on the road network would be trapped by the Solovei Razboynik tile without any doubt. The same will happen with the Labyrinth tile.

Placement rules have nothing to do with the integrity of a feature. This is what happens in this case. No matter how you place the meeples on the road network with the labyrinth or a plain roundabout, it is still one single road with several branches.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Nazarentsy on June 29, 2020, 09:05:40 AM


Moreover, road networks with labyrinths are also scored as one single feature where the whole road network is one large road with several branches.

Being one single feature, the whole road network with labyrinth tiles will be affected by the Solovei Razboynik tile.

Picture a Labyrinth tile like a Spiel 18 tile, they are the same except for the meeple placement rules in the advanced variant rules.

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/7/73/EssenSpiel_2018.png)

If you replace the labyrinth tile in the image by the Spiel 18 tile, all the meeples on the road network would be trapped by the Solovei Razboynik tile without any doubt. The same will happen with the Labyrinth tile.

Placement rules have nothing to do with the integrity of a feature. This is what happens in this case. No matter how you place the meeples on the road network with the labyrinth or a plain roundabout, it is still one single road with several branches.

Thank you very much!

And one more question, please :D

Example of scoring castles: BLUE completes his city and scores 0 points, because only mayor is situated in this city and city have no pennants . As a segment of the city lies on a tile adjacent to the castle, and it is the first structure to be completed since the castle was built, RED also receives 0 points. I am right?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on June 29, 2020, 09:17:14 AM
You are not right. If the castle belong to RED, then RED receive the points for that city. The castles can score unoccupied features. That means that the meeples from the features scored by castles are ignored.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on June 29, 2020, 11:51:01 AM

Thank you very much!

And one more question, please :D

No problem. Happy to help!  ;D

[233.] Example of scoring castles: BLUE completes his city and scores 0 points, because only mayor is situated in this city and city have no pennants . As a segment of the city lies on a tile adjacent to the castle, and it is the first structure to be completed since the castle was built, RED also receives 0 points. I am right?

You are not right. If the castle belong to RED, then RED receive the points for that city. The castles can score unoccupied features. That means that the meeples from the features scored by castles are ignored.

As Carcassonne93 said, Red will score for the castle the full primary points for the city occupied by the Blue's mayor. Even if Blue scores 0 points for it because of the mayor.

The mayor and the castle introduce some subtleties during scoring: they decouple the amount of points a feature is worth from the points scored by the player.

Let's imagine castle with a mayor and a completed city with a mayor in the castle fief. The completion of the city will trigger the castle scoring as well:
* The completed city is worth X points.
* The castle neighboring the completed city is then worth X points too (even if the city was unoccupied)
* The mayor in the completed city (with no coats of arms) will score 0 points, no matter the city is worth X points.
* The mayor in the completed castle (no coats of arms either) will score 0 points, no matter the castle is worth X points.

There is more to it because castles can only receive points related to the feature itself. Any bonus associated to any figures placed in the feature triggering the castle scoring cannot be considered.

For example, if the fairy was assigned to the mayor in the city with no coats of arms, you would have the following scenario:

* The completed city is worth X points. The 3-point fairy bonus only affect the mayor, not the city.
* The castle neighboring the completed city is then worth X points too (even if the city was unoccupied). The 3-point fairy bonus only affect the mayor in the city, not the city and therfore not the castle.
* The mayor in the completed city (with no coats of arms) will score 0 points, no matter the city is worth X points, but it would score 3 bonus points for the fairy.
* The mayor in the completed castle (no coats of arms either) will score 0 points, no matter the castle is worth X points.

The Advent Calendar Quiz 2019 included a question exploring these concepts:

Question #12: If you love castles, this is the right time to prove it to Santa Claus. After completing the city, what will be the scoring for each player? Think carefully!

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4427.0;attach=12124)

You can find the answer here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4427.msg65465#msg65465 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4427.msg65465#msg65465)

Have fun!  ;D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Nazarentsy on July 04, 2020, 10:27:59 AM
Thanks for the detailed answer!


There is more to it because castles can only receive points related to the feature itself. Any bonus associated to any figures placed in the feature triggering the castle scoring cannot be considered.


What about little buildings and bonuses of German castle? Does not castles receive points of them? Teacher too?

And question about robbers (1 edition)

“When a player draws a tile with a robber symbol, he or she plays it according to normal rules. Then he or she may place a follower.
The player may immediately place his or her robber figure on the scoreboard”.

Do I understand correctly that I can first place a follower and then a robber and I can first place a robber and then a follower?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 04, 2020, 01:36:41 PM
Thanks for the detailed answer!

You are welcome!  ;D


There is more to it because castles can only receive points related to the feature itself. Any bonus associated to any figures placed in the feature triggering the castle scoring cannot be considered.


[234.] What about little buildings and bonuses of German castle? Does not castles receive points of them? Teacher too?

The German castle bonus and little building bonus are part of feature scoring, so the will be also scored by a neighboring castle. The Teacher points are a figure-related bonus not associated to the feature itself, so those points are not "visible" to a castle.

As a summary, a castle will be able to get the points associated to the scoring of a feature (referred to as primary feature scoring). Here you can see a listing with all the elements considered part of the primary feature scoring as of today:

* Road: feature tiles + German cathedrals + inns + mage + witch + little buildings + German castles +  bathhouses + labyrinths, taking into account scoring tiles

* Cities: feature tiles + Cathars / siege / besiegers + cathedrals + mage + witch + little buildings + German castles + bathhouses + Darmstadtium, taking into account scoring tiles

* Monastic buildings: feature and adjacent tiles + vineyards + little buildings, taking into account scoring tiles
  - Note: A monastic building is any of the following features (with monks or heretics): monastery, abbey, shrine, German monastery, Dutch & Belgian monastery, Japanese building, Darmstadt church. Meeples placed as abbots per se cannot trigger a castle scoring, since the feature is not completed even if surrounded.

* Fields with barn(s): completed cities / castles + pig + pig-herd + Cathars / siege / besiegers + little buildings

* Baba Yaga's hut: feature tile + little buildings

* Gardens: feature and adjacent tiles + little buildings

* German castles: feature and adjacent tiles + little buildings

* German cathedrals: roads tiles and road segments on German cathedral tiles + inns + little buildings

As you can see, other bonuses associated to figures/tokens are not considered, since they are not part of the primary feature score (the player receiving the bonus may not be the one(s) with the majority, that is, the one(s) scoring the feature):
* Gingerbread Man for a completed city
* Watchtowers
* Tollhouses
* Darmstadt Church bonus
* Fairy
* Ringmasters
* Markets of Leipzig
* Teacher

Some may raise their hand about Markets of Leipzig, for example, when thinking of the Wainwirghts quarter bonus. I have to stress here that the meeple in the city of Leipzig is the one granting you the bonus under certain circumstances. Remember that when sending your only meeple on a road to Leipzig, you may score 0 points for the road but you may get the Wainwrights quarter bonus for the road you couldn't score if you send your meeple to that quarter... So it is a bonus not linked direct to the feature scoring. 

You can revisit the clarifications about this point here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2)

And you can find a full detail of the scoring information per feature (and turn sequence step) here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence)


[235.] And question about robbers (1 edition)

“When a player draws a tile with a robber symbol, he or she plays it according to normal rules. Then he or she may place a follower.
The player may immediately place his or her robber figure on the scoreboard”.

Do I understand correctly that I can first place a follower and then a robber and I can first place a robber and then a follower?

The sequence is the same as for C2:

“When a player draws a tile with a robber symbol, he or she plays it according to normal rules. The player may immediately place his or her robber figure on the scoreboard. Then he or she may place a follower.”

I checked the C1 rules for the Robbers and it seems they were not correctly transcribed form the CAR.

I just corrected the rules. Thanks for the heads-up.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on July 04, 2020, 02:19:50 PM
Quote
German cathedrals: roads tiles and road segments on German cathedral tiles + inns + little buildings
German castles?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 04, 2020, 03:32:23 PM
Quote
[236.] German cathedrals: roads tiles and road segments on German cathedral tiles + inns + little buildings
German castles?

The German Cathedrals rules describe two types of scoring:
1. Roads with German cathedrals, where roads get extra points during the game when ending at a German cathedral and also dissociate road segments on German cathedral tiles, what is a weird thing when combining these cathedrals with other expansions.
2. German cathedrals, that score during the game and after the game (if incomplete). In this case, German cathedrals score per road tile (considering inns, if any) but the full road scoring is not considered. Otherwise, German cathedrals would consider the road points including the German cathedral bonus and this is not the case.

That's why case #2 does not consider German castles. German cathedrals do not fully score the roads connected to them. They just consider tiles and inns. German cathedrals at the end of the game consider tiles in both incomplete and completed roads connected to them. So, again, it is not a regular road scoring.

Note: Little buildings are considered as they affect all the features being scored on the tiles they occupy.

You can revisit the rules for the German cathedrals here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Cathedrals_in_Germany_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Cathedrals_in_Germany_(1st_edition))

Since the wording for the scoring of the German cathedrals may be a bit misleading, plase have a look to the table included in this clarifications to get a general idea:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Cathedrals_in_Germany_(1st_edition)#cite_note-german-cathedral-scoring-4 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Cathedrals_in_Germany_(1st_edition)#cite_note-german-cathedral-scoring-4)

As a final note, you can have a look at this "riddles" by Kettlefish, where you can clearly see that German castles do not consider German castles in their scoring. Conversely, roads connected to German castles and German cathedrals consider these bonus during the game.
* German Cathedrals (feature completion):
   - Enunciation:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37680#msg37680 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37680#msg37680)
   - Solucion:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37695#msg37695 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37695#msg37695)
* German Cathedrals (after the game):
   - Enunciation:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37715#msg37715 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37715#msg37715)
   - Solution:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37723#msg37723 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2580.msg37723#msg37723)

EDIT: Added links to riddles (quizzes)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on July 07, 2020, 04:24:16 AM
What happens if in a small city there are 1 red normal meeple and 1 blue normal meeple, and the red player wants to convert the city into a castle and the blue player wants to score it?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on July 07, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
So situation when second meeple was added to unclosed city by Flier?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on July 07, 2020, 01:16:32 PM
Quote
So situation when second meeple was added to unclosed city by Flier?
Yes.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 07, 2020, 01:40:11 PM
Quote
So situation when second meeple was added to unclosed city by Flier?
Yes.

Just a couple of comments...

You can lead to this scenario by deploying meeples from the castle district in Carcassonne:

1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: completes the small city started by :red-meeple: and redeploys one of his meeples from the castle district in Carcassonne.
3. :red-meeple: wants to convert the city into a castle but :blue-meeple: wants to score it.


Using a flier would require a different sequence:

1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city and wants to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: wants to score it.

There is a little caveat with the flier and the magic portal. They cannot deploy a meeple to a feature completed by the tile with the flying machine/magic portal. So in this case, the flying machine can only land a meeple on the first tile of a small city.

Besides, there are no flying machine tiles with city segments. They only have road segments.

EDIT: The first scenario above cannot happen if :red-meeple: declares he/she will convert the small city into a castle. At this point, since no scoring takes place, no meeples can be deployed from the city of Carcassonne.

Please check the Order of Play: the decision to convert a city to a castle happens before any scoring takes place and therefore before the redeployment of meeples from the city of Carcassonne.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on July 07, 2020, 02:26:39 PM
What happens if this city will become a small city (and red wants to covert into a castle, but blue wants to score it)?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 07, 2020, 02:38:56 PM
[237.] What happens if in a small city there are 1 red normal meeple and 1 blue normal meeple, and the red player wants to convert the city into a castle and the blue player wants to score it?

I haven't found any particular rule or clarification for this case. However, it seems there is no issue in complying with both "actions":
* Blue may score 4 points for the city and remove their meeple.
* Red may then convert the city into a castle and move their meeple on top of the castle.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 07, 2020, 02:41:03 PM
[237.b] What happens if this city will become a small city (and red wants to covert into a castle, but blue wants to score it)?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12879)


The answer would be the same as for question [237.]

EDIT: Pushing the rules to their limits, in this case, we have the possibility of deploying meeples from the city of Carcassonne if one of the players already present in the city declares he/she wants to score the city... I think will explore all this in the following question  ;)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on July 07, 2020, 02:48:21 PM
What happens if the blue meeple is a big meeple? What happens if both meeples are normal meeples, but is moved from the City of Carcassonne the big black meeple (into the castle)? What happens if both players wants to convert it into a castle?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 08, 2020, 12:01:45 PM
All these questions can only push the rules we know to the limits, since this case is not covered anywhere... So we enter the land of reasonable speculation...

I found this thread on BGG discussing a similar scenario back in 09/2012:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/850355/flier-castles (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/850355/flier-castles)

...so you can see we continue on the land of unconfirmed rules in order to prevent the game from breaking.

In general terms:
* Players without the majority would be removed their meeples from the small town without scoring (the same as in a normal city).
* Then, each player sharing the majority should decide in turn if he/she scores the small city or converts it into a castle.
   - The players sharing the majority and scoring the city would score their points and remove their meeples from the small city.
   - The players converting the small city into a castle would play a castle token each on the small city and place their meeples in the castle on top.
       - You may place only one castle token and remove the rest from the game.

Note that each players needs a castle token. Players may not reuse some others castle token. It would be unfair. This means that players who ran out of castle tokens can only score the city if sharing the majority.

[237.c] What happens if the blue meeple is a big meeple?

Let's check a couple of scenarios...

Scenario A (the one you requested):
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a large meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: would like to score it.

In this case :blue-meeple: has the majority so, :red-meeple: cannot do or decide anything. :blue-meeple: would score 4 points for the small city and both meeples would be returned to their owners.



Scenario B (a variant swapping players' wishes):
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a large meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to score it but :blue-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle it.

In this case :red-meeple: has the majority so, :blue-meeple: cannot do or decide anything. :blue-meeple: would convert the small city into a castle and place its meeple in it. :red-meeple:, in minority, would remove their meeple.

[237.d] What happens if both meeples are normal meeples, but is moved from the City of Carcassonne the big black meeple (into the castle)?

Let's see the scenario...

Scenario:
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a regular meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: would like to score it. Since the city is going to be scored,  :black1-meeple: decides to deploy his/her large meeple from the city of Carcassonne.

Since :black1-meeple: has the majority, the other players cannot decide anything and the small city has to be scored (:black1-meeple: cannot do any other thing - the deployment is aimed at scoring). So :black1-meeple: scores 4 points and all the meeples are retuned to their owners.

[237.e] What happens if both players wants to convert it into a castle?

Let's see the scenario...

Scenario:
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a regular meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: and  :blue-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle.

Both :red-meeple: and :blue-meeple: need a castle token each. They both place one castle tokens on the small city and place their meeples in the castle. (You place one castle token and remove the other from the game).

Both meeples would  score the full points for the next completed feature (in a subsequent round of scoring).

You may have additional scenarios if involving mayors, the fairy (migration to a castle? = undefined  >:D), ringmasters (scoring ringmaster points in a castle? = undefined  >:D),...
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on July 08, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
What happens with field scoring if there are 2 castle tokens on the same small city?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 08, 2020, 02:21:50 PM
[238.] What happens with field scoring if there are 2 castle tokens on the same small city?

Unexplored territory again,...

You should consider only one castle for farm scoring for practical reasons. There may not be two castles in the same location unless you are playing a futuristic version in 4D.  ;)

The idea of stacking the castles is just to make sure all the players sharing a castle used one castle token each as requested. That is, no one has an extra castle token because they are piggybacking on the castle token placed by first player converting the small city into a castle.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on July 09, 2020, 01:42:06 AM
Currently I can't find it, but samewhere was written that current player on turn will choose which in order will be scoring feature.
I think this can apply, that user which scores small city he will choose if small city will turn to castle or not, whatever he doesn't have majority.
This can apply, when current plajer on turn finish that city.
Other situation is when somebody else finish city on his turn and in city are meeplse from different two (or more players).
In this case, rules said: A game of Carcassonne is played in clockwise order. So first player which is on turn after current player will have choose what to do with small city.
I don't know if some other rules use different logic, but I think, this can be best practice to use somethink whis is "discovered" and written ;-)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 09, 2020, 05:52:57 AM
Normally, each player decides the order in which to score their features.

The order of scoring is specified by the active player if multiple features with one meeple are scored as a result of one tile placement when playing with The Barber-Surgeons.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#3._After_scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#3._After_scoring_a_feature)

When a small city is completed, the city owner decides what to do: score vs. convert into a castle. Here the issue is that you have several owners and each of them may decide different actions, and you have to satisfy them all.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on July 09, 2020, 08:03:46 AM
Thanks for that Barber Surgeons, I knew that somwhere it is ;-)

And I know (original problem). But when it's tie (or draw) and there is no common decision what to do, than has to be found some rmechanism to decide what to do. Maybe this is one.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 09, 2020, 01:34:16 PM
The active player can always be the referee in any dispute...  ;)

The problem is if he/she is an interested party too.  >:D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on July 09, 2020, 04:34:55 PM
The active player can always be the referee in any dispute...  ;)

The problem is if he/she is an interested party too.  >:D
Yes he is. As occupant or as victim :)

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Nazarentsy on July 17, 2020, 10:11:37 AM
Expansion The Tunnel (1st edition)

"Tunnels in other expansions

Tiles from other expansions, such as The Princess and the Dragon and Abbey and the Mayor which also depict tunnels, can also be used with the rules for the Spielbox tunnel expansion; as such, the openings can be claimed with tokens. In this case the road leading through the tunnel does not count as continuous, contrary to the stated rules."

Is the road broken immediately or only after using the tunnel tokens from The Tunnel?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on July 17, 2020, 10:25:53 AM
When you said, that we are using Tunnel portals also for these tiles, then immediately. But it has to be clear at beginning of the game, if we are apply or not this rule on these tiles.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 17, 2020, 10:52:36 AM
[239.] Expansion The Tunnel (1st edition)

"Tunnels in other expansions

Tiles from other expansions, such as The Princess and the Dragon and Abbey and the Mayor which also depict tunnels, can also be used with the rules for the Spielbox tunnel expansion; as such, the openings can be claimed with tokens. In this case the road leading through the tunnel does not count as continuous, contrary to the stated rules."

Is the road broken immediately or only after using the tunnel tokens from The Tunnel?

If agreed with the other players when you play with The Tunnel, you may apply the rules to tiles with tunnels in other expansions, that is, these ones (or their C1 counterparts):

* Exp. 3 - The Princess & the Dragon:
(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/3/3c/Princess_And_Dragon_C2_Tile_Q.jpg)

* Exp. 5 - Abbey & Mayor:
(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/5/5b/Abbey_And_Mayor_C2_Tile_L.jpg)

In this case, the road segments on these two tiles are considered immediately broken off. It would be like you have up to two extra tiles with tunnels even if the tunnel openings don't feature proper tunnel brickwork entrances.

So the would follow the same rules as for the tunnels in the expansion, found here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tunnel_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tunnel_(1st_edition))

PS: @Bumsakalaka you replied faster than me  :(y)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on July 25, 2020, 11:48:24 AM
In the last scenario, the black player cannot move a black meeple from the Castle (City of Carcassonne) because both players (red and blue) convert the city into a castle?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on July 26, 2020, 04:36:10 AM
All these questions can only push the rules we know to the limits, since this case is not covered anywhere... So we enter the land of reasonable speculation...

I found this thread on BGG discussing a similar scenario back in 09/2012:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/850355/flier-castles (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/850355/flier-castles)

...so you can see we continue on the land of unconfirmed rules in order to prevent the game from breaking.

In general terms:
* Players without the majority would be removed their meeples from the small town without scoring (the same as in a normal city).
* Then, each player sharing the majority should decide in turn if he/she scores the small city or converts it into a castle.
   - The players sharing the majority and scoring the city would score their points and remove their meeples from the small city.
   - The players converting the small city into a castle would play a castle token each on the small city and place their meeples in the castle on top.
       - You may place only one castle token and remove the rest from the game.

Note that each players needs a castle token. Players may not reuse some others castle token. It would be unfair. This means that players who ran out of castle tokens can only score the city if sharing the majority.

[237.c] What happens if the blue meeple is a big meeple?

Let's check a couple of scenarios...

Scenario A (the one you requested):
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a large meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: would like to score it.

In this case :blue-meeple: has the majority so, :red-meeple: cannot do or decide anything. :blue-meeple: would score 4 points for the small city and both meeples would be returned to their owners.



Scenario B (a variant swapping players' wishes):
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a large meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to score it but :blue-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle it.

In this case :red-meeple: has the majority so, :blue-meeple: cannot do or decide anything. :blue-meeple: would convert the small city into a castle and place its meeple in it. :red-meeple:, in minority, would remove their meeple.

[237.d] What happens if both meeples are normal meeples, but is moved from the City of Carcassonne the big black meeple (into the castle)?

Let's see the scenario...

Scenario:
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a regular meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle but :blue-meeple: would like to score it. Since the city is going to be scored,  :black1-meeple: decides to deploy his/her large meeple from the city of Carcassonne.

Since :black1-meeple: has the majority, the other players cannot decide anything and the small city has to be scored (:black1-meeple: cannot do any other thing - the deployment is aimed at scoring). So :black1-meeple: scores 4 points and all the meeples are retuned to their owners.

[237.e] What happens if both players wants to convert it into a castle?

Let's see the scenario...

Scenario:
1. :red-meeple: places a semicircular tile with a regular meeple.
2. :blue-meeple: places a flying machine tile and lands a regular meeple on the semicircular city.
3. :red-meeple: completes the small city. :red-meeple: and  :blue-meeple: would like to convert it into a castle.

Both :red-meeple: and :blue-meeple: need a castle token each. They both place one castle tokens on the small city and place their meeples in the castle. (You place one castle token and remove the other from the game).

Both meeples would  score the full points for the next completed feature (in a subsequent round of scoring).

You may have additional scenarios if involving mayors, the fairy (migration to a castle? = undefined  >:D), ringmasters (scoring ringmaster points in a castle? = undefined  >:D),...

(237.e) In the last scenario, the black player cannot move a black meeple from the Castle (City of Carcassonne) because both players (red and blue) convert the city into a castle?

Yes, that's correct. In this scenario, both :red-meeple: and :blue-meeple:, present in the small city, decide to convert it into a castle. This means that no scoring happens at all and therefore, :black1-meeple: cannot redeploy any meeples from Carcassonne onto the city.

You can revisit the requirements to deploy a meeple from Carcassonne here:
* http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#3._Scoring_a_feature_-_Moving_meeples_from_Carcassonne)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on August 01, 2020, 11:17:24 AM
If you place a bridge on 2 halfling tiles, it values 1 or 2 points?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 01, 2020, 03:07:15 PM
Depends od versions when C1 then 2 when C2 then 1

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 02, 2020, 05:42:38 AM
[238.] If you place a bridge on 2 halfling tiles, it values 1 or 2 points?

I'm going to extend your question with the following scenario add fuel to the discussion. :red-meeple: places the tile highlighted in red connecting the previously incomplete roads occupied by him and :yellow-meeple:.

(https://i.imgur.com/sytpIGc.png)

Several questions stem from this image based on Carcassonne93's question:

a) How is the bridge considered, as 1 single virtual tile overlapping the two Halfling underneath or as 2 virtual Halfling tiles making up the bridge?

The answer to the previous question has different consequences for the the following questions:

Meeple placement:
b) Is the position of the :red-meeple: meeple on the bridge relevant?   

Majority:
c.1) How does the hill on one of the Halfling tiles affect the bridge?
c.2) Who has the majority?

Little Buildings:
d.1) How does the Little Building affect the roads on the Halfling tiles?
d.2) How does the Little Building affect the bridge over the Halfling tiles?

Scoring (assuming the Little Building basic rules, that is, 1 point per Little Building):
e) How many points is the road worth?

Any thoughts?

PS: This case is not covered in any clarifications as far as I know beyond the bridge can be placed on farms segments.

EDIT: I added Little Buildings to the equation. Why not?  >:D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 02, 2020, 05:44:15 AM
(238.) Depends od versions when C1 then 2 when C2 then 1

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku

Could you explain your answer in more detail? Thank you.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 07, 2020, 05:33:20 AM
[238.] If you place a bridge on 2 halfling tiles, it values 1 or 2 points?

I'm going to extend your question with the following scenario add fuel to the discussion. :red-meeple: places the tile highlighted in red connecting the previously incomplete roads occupied by him and :yellow-meeple:.

(https://i.imgur.com/sytpIGc.png)

Several questions stem from this image based on Carcassonne93's question:

a) How is the bridge considered, as 1 single virtual tile overlapping the two Halfling underneath or as 2 virtual Halfling tiles making up the bridge?

(238.a) We are facing here a dilemma: how can the 1-tile-long bridge coexist with a 2-tile-long road across two Halfling tiles?

There is no clarification available for this particular case. The closest one available is this:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_note-4 (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#cite_note-4)

...that reads as follows:

Quote
As the bridge is counted just like a printed road segment, any completed road that includes a bridge and a printed road segment on the same tile still only scores 1 point for the tile. (2/2014)

Based on this, we would have to assume the bridge across two Halfling tiles would be equivalent to two printed road segments on  the same tiles. If so, the bridge would count as two road segments in this case.

As the clarifications says, each tile on a road counts once, so it would be not possible to count the Halfling tiles and add the bridge on top as a third tile. Therefore, the Halfling tiles are counted once including the bridge portion passing over.

As a consequence for the sake of consistency, this should be the same even if were no printed roads on the Halfling tiles.


The answer to the previous question has different consequences for the the following questions:

Meeple placement:
b) Is the position of the :red-meeple: meeple on the bridge relevant?   

(238.b) The position of the meeple is not relevant in this case for claiming the bridge or scoring in this case. It would be important if playing with the dragon, the tower or the plague, where certain actions may affect the meeples on a particular tile.

You can revisit the interactions of these expansions with Halflings here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Other_expansions (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Other_expansions)


Majority:
c.1) How does the hill on one of the Halfling tiles affect the bridge?

(238.c.1) In this case, the hill affects the whole square space, so the position of the :red-meeple: meeple on the bridge is not relevant in this case. Therefore, the :red-meeple: is affected by the hill no matter its position on the bridge.

You can revisit the rules about Halflings and hills here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Tiles_with_expansion_symbols (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Tiles_with_expansion_symbols)


c.2) Who has the majority?

(238.c.2) :red-meeple and :yellow-meeple: are tied. Since, the :red-meeple: meeple is affected by the hill, :red-meeple: has the majority and will score the road alone.

You can revisit the rules about Halflings and hills here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Tiles_with_expansion_symbols (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Tiles_with_expansion_symbols)


Little Buildings:
d.1) How does the Little Building affect the roads on the Halfling tiles?

(238.d.1) The Little Building will only affect the Halfling it is placed on, including the road containing the print road segment on it. Thus the road will get bonus points from the Little Building. 

You can revisit the interactions of these expansions with Halflings here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Other_expansions (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Other_expansions)


d.2) How does the Little Building affect the bridge over the Halfling tiles?

(238.d.2) The Little Building will only affect the Halfling it is placed on, including the road containing the bridge portion passing over it. Thus the road with the bridge will get bonus points from the Little Building. 

You can revisit the interactions of these expansions with Halflings here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Other_expansions (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#Other_expansions)


Scoring (assuming the Little Building basic rules, that is, 1 point per Little Building):
e) How many points is the road worth?

(238.e) The road has 6 tiles (including 3 Halfling tiles). As we commented earlier, the bridge is considered as printed segments on the Halfling tiles.

Therefore, :red-meeple: will score 7 points (6 tiles x 1 point + 1 Little Building x 1 point)

Any thoughts?

PS: This case is not covered in any clarifications as far as I know beyond the bridge can be placed on farms segments.

EDIT: I added Little Buildings to the equation. Why not?  >:D

Any comments?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Vital Pluymers on August 07, 2020, 06:12:59 AM

Quote
As the bridge is counted just like a printed road segment, any completed road that includes a bridge and a printed road segment on the same tile still only scores 1 point for the tile. (2/2014)
[/quote]

What is the meaning of this clarification? How can a road contain a bridge and a printed road segment on the same tile?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 07, 2020, 06:29:52 AM

Quote
As the bridge is counted just like a printed road segment, any completed road that includes a bridge and a printed road segment on the same tile still only scores 1 point for the tile. (2/2014)

What is the meaning of this clarification? How can a road contain a bridge and a printed road segment on the same tile?

Hi Vital,

We had this case in the Advent Calendar Quiz MMXIX, Question #8:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4427.msg65461#msg65461 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4427.msg65461#msg65461)

Check the bridge on the right. that tile has a printed road segment and bridge. That tile is counted once when scoring the road.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4427.0;attach=12115;image)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Vital Pluymers on August 10, 2020, 05:27:45 AM

Quote
As the bridge is counted just like a printed road segment, any completed road that includes a bridge and a printed road segment on the same tile still only scores 1 point for the tile. (2/2014)

What is the meaning of this clarification? How can a road contain a bridge and a printed road segment on the same tile?

Hi Vital,

We had this case in the Advent Calendar Quiz MMXIX, Question #8:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4427.msg65461#msg65461 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4427.msg65461#msg65461)

Check the bridge on the right. that tile has a printed road segment and bridge. That tile is counted once when scoring the road.

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4427.0;attach=12115;image)

Cheers!

I see :-)
Then I suppose your proposal to count both halfling tiles below the bridge sounds most appropriate!
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 10, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
I think this approach solves the issue, although the "virtual" splitting of a bridge is something I haven't seen in any clarification.

This is a bit off-topic, but this would also apply to the following cases where some CarcF fans have created bridges spanning across more than one square tile:

https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=357&t=4941 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=357&t=4941)

The image attaches is one example by user Brandman Florian.

PS: This is my 1900th post... and I love these crazy bridges ^-^
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 11, 2020, 12:01:07 AM
I think this approach solves the issue, although the "virtual" splitting of a bridge is something I haven't seen in any clarification.

This is a bit off-topic, but this would also apply to the following cases where some CarcF fans have created bridges spanning across more than one square tile:

https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=357&t=4941 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=357&t=4941)

The image attaches is one example by user Brandman Florian.

PS: This is my 1900th post... and I love these crazy bridges ^-^

By ligth flashing on tiles... They were also printed and they aren't original tiles from Weel of Forture, right?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 11, 2020, 03:30:45 AM
This image is from CarcF. They seem to be original tiles but they are sleeved so the plastic is reflecting the light like that.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 11, 2020, 03:42:20 AM
Aah, I see, then ok ;-D
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on August 17, 2020, 07:41:24 AM
How many points does these watchtowers scores in these 4 examples?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 17, 2020, 11:34:37 AM
Haha, good examples ;-)
With rules of German Castles I quess every tile place will be scored as separated tile.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 18, 2020, 04:08:13 AM
[240.] How many points does these watchtowers scores in these 4 examples?

Good question!

There is no claification about these cases as The Watchtowers are designed to be played with the base game, so any interaction with other expansions has to be an educated guess or house ruled, since HiG won't be providing any clarifications as indicated in the expansion rules.

This said, the rules state that "For scoring the watchtowers, the 8 directly adjacent tiles and the tile with the watchtower itself are considered." In order to apply these instructions, we would need to bend the original rules to the current context:
* Double-sized tiles should be considered as single tiles, even if the number of adjacent tiles is not 8 tiles anymore. In this case, the Leipzig tiles show one road segment each as per the rules, and 1 or 2 city segments (one of them belonging to the city of Leipzig itself).
* The outside of city of Carcassonne is made out of individual tiles. There are separation lines splitting the surrounding field area into tiles. The issue here is how to consider the inner part of the city that is not split into tiles (except the original C1 version made out of 12 individual tiles assembled together). In this case, you may consider that each outer tile has a portion of city on it, since the city itself is considered when scoring fields. Some of the outer tiles also show road or semicircular city segments too.

If this approach is taken, the answer to your question would be as follows:

[Image 1]
(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12910)

[Image 1] There are city segments on the watchtower tile and on 3 outer tiles of the city of Carcassonne. So :red-meeple: scores 4 points for the watchtower (4 tiles with city segments x 1 point per tile).


[Image 2]
(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12911)

[Image 2] There are city segments on the watchtower tile, on the tile below the watchtower and on 3 outer tiles of the city of Carcassonne. So :red-meeple: scores 5 points for the watchtower (5 tiles with city segments x 1 point per tile).

[Image 3]
(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12912)

[Image 3] There are road segments on the watchtower tile, on the tile above the watchtower and on 2 Leipzig tiles. So :red-meeple: scores 4 points for the watchtower (4 tiles with road segments x 1 point per tile).

[Image 4]
(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12913)

[Image 4] There are city segments on the watchtower tile and on 2 Leipzig tiles. So :red-meeple: scores 3 points for the watchtower (3 tiles with city segments x 1 point per tile).

You can revisit the scoring rules for watchtowers here:
* http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#3._Scoring_a_feature)

You can check the clarification on the roads on Leipzig tiles here:
*
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#3._Scoring_a_feature (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig#3._Scoring_a_feature)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 18, 2020, 04:08:51 AM
(240.) Haha, good examples ;-)
With rules of German Castles I quess every tile place will be scored as separated tile.

I agree.  ;)
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 18, 2020, 07:10:10 AM
Well
According to Image 1: 4 cities and Image 2: 5 cities and "confirmed" German Castles scoring, I guest it has to be different points for watchtower on Images 3 and 4
Image 3: 6 points
Image 4: 4 points

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 18, 2020, 11:28:06 AM
(240.) Haha, good examples ;-)
With rules of German Castles I quess every tile place will be scored as separated tile.

I agree.  ;)

Well
According to Image 1: 4 cities and Image 2: 5 cities and "confirmed" German Castles scoring, I guest it has to be different points for watchtower on Images 3 and 4
Image 3: 6 points
Image 4: 4 points


Maybe I got wrong: do you mean counting tile places (square spaces) or tiles placed (individual tiles)?

I mean individual tiles placed: Each tiles counts for one if the required feature is present.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 18, 2020, 11:35:19 AM
According to German Castles - Castle tile is counted as 2.
Abyway Carcassonne city on Image 1 is made only from 2 big tiles so there are only  2 city segments because of 2 tiles?

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 19, 2020, 01:59:30 AM
Here the issue is whether watchtowers should follow...
* the way monasteries score, focused on adjacent occupied spaces; or
* the way cities and roads score, focused on adjacent individual tiles.

I'm applying the latter, since it is important to consider tiles and their features...

My question: if we had two Halflings in one square adjacent to a watchtower, should we consider the tiles individually or consider them aggregated by square space (the features are counted per square space)? This feature aggregation seems odd to me, the same as splitting double-sized tiles into spaces and count their features that way.

Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Carcassonne93 on August 19, 2020, 03:13:11 AM
This farmhouse is not too far to be scored by tollhouse?
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 19, 2020, 03:25:34 AM
[241.] This farmhouse is not too far to be scored by tollhouse?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=12914)

The farmhouse is on the road but cannot be closer probably due to the lack of space and aesthetic factors. The current design looks more balanced than cramming the farmhouse by the short road segment so close to the edge.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 19, 2020, 05:08:31 AM
My question: if we had two Halflings in one square adjacent to a watchtower, should we consider the tiles individually or consider them aggregated by square space (the features are counted per square space)? This feature aggregation seems odd to me, the same as splitting double-sized tiles into spaces and count their features that way.
Well depends if C1 or C2.
C1: Every half tile +1
C2: Every full tile position +1
This is how we calculate score in game.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on August 19, 2020, 07:45:26 AM
My question: if we had two Halflings in one square adjacent to a watchtower, should we consider the tiles individually or consider them aggregated by square space (the features are counted per square space)? This feature aggregation seems odd to me, the same as splitting double-sized tiles into spaces and count their features that way.
Well depends if C1 or C2.
C1: Every half tile +1
C2: Every full tile position +1
This is how we calculate score in game.

Check today's quiz question...

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4749.msg69870#msg69870 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4749.msg69870#msg69870)

This is just a coincidence, I had the questions ready a week ago and this one was planned for today :o
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Drodo on September 02, 2020, 12:54:12 PM
Flying Machines: Do you decide which meeple/figure will fly before rolling the die? Or do you roll the die first and then decide which figure to place?

In my group we first place a meeple on the flying machine itself before it takes off, to simulate that it is preparing to fly.
Title: Re: Questions
Post by: Meepledrone on September 02, 2020, 01:45:22 PM
[242.] Flying Machines: Do you decide which meeple/figure will fly before rolling the die? Or do you roll the die first and then decide which figure to place?

In my group we first place a meeple on the flying machine itself before it takes off, to simulate that it is preparing to fly.

That is correct. You first pick a meeple and then you fly it.

As per the rules, you follow the next steps:
1) You decide first the meeple: you place it on the flying machine, so there is no change of heart
2) You roll the die
3) You place the meeple on a valid feature on the destination tile, if any, or return the meeple to your supply

So, you cannot walk away if the destination feature is not the one you wanted. You can only return the meeple to your supply if there is no valid feature for your meeple on the destination tile, or there is no tile at all. You cannot return your meeple to your supply if the destination feature does not suit you.

You can revisit the rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier)