Poll

How do you the view German Castles and Halflings?

Cardboardism: Both are 1 tile
Squarism: German castles are 2 tiles; 2 matching halflings are 1 tile
Some other view (please specify)
Not sure

Author Topic: Are you a cardboardist or a squarist?  (Read 11559 times)

Offline asparagus

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Re: Are you a cardboardist or a squarist?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2016, 05:23:09 AM »
I am banging my head against a wall at the moment. I have tried to boil down what the issues were into catchy phrases and people are undermining my efforts.

I never saw anything (apart from perhaps intuition) suggest you needed both halflings for a tile space to count as complete until I started this thread.

Offline Decar

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Re: Are you a cardboardist or a squarist?
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2016, 05:27:16 AM »
We play that a halfling can be used to complete a cloister as long as one side of the halfling is adjacent to the cloister.  If the empty space side is adjacent to the cloister you need another halfling to fill it in. 

I suppose it is ok to be a scoring cardboardist, but a squarist for everything else

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and play methods with our Dirk.  Such polls tend to polarize the group, which tend to lead to more extreme views being chosen by the individuals who would have chosen something else entirely on their own.  It's good to see members carefully describing exactly how they use the tiles so all points of view can be explored.  The 'grey areas' are very significant when considering these two expansions.

Offline dirk2112

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Re: Are you a cardboardist or a squarist?
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2016, 06:44:42 AM »
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and play methods with our Dirk.  Such polls tend to polarize the group, which tend to lead to more extreme views being chosen by the individuals who would have chosen something else entirely on their own.  It's good to see members carefully describing exactly how they use the tiles so all points of view can be explored.  The 'grey areas' are very significant when considering these two expansions.

Most of the time, I am a stickler for rules, but mixing Carcassonne expansions in such a way can create bizarre situations that I don't think the creator and publisher ever considered.  For the plague, do you require 1 flee on each Halfling while 2 are together?  A 2-tile castle only gets one flee or so I would assume.  I really don't know, but if it happens while we are playing we will discuss and come up with some sort of situational rule we can all agree on. 

Offline asparagus

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Re: Are you a cardboardist or a squarist?
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2016, 08:23:24 AM »
I have tried to clarify my definition of the two philosophies and spell out their implications.



Squarism: Imagine a square grid laid out across the playing area that lines up exactly with the normal tiles. A tile is one of these squares, so long as it is occupied by at least one halfling, German castle, normal tile, abbey etc.

Cardboardism: A tile is a piece of cardboard that has been laid in a legal position on the Carcassonne board.

Q1: What are the rules for a monastery (or German castle) to be complete?
S1: Each of the surrounding 8 (10) tiles must be laid.
C1: Each of the surrounding 8 (10) tile spaces must be occupied by at least 1 tile.
A1: This implies no difference in actual game play. Similarly there is no difference in the rules for the placing of abbeys.

Q2: How is a monastery (or German castle) to be scored?
S2: The feature scores for every tile it occupies. It follows that under squarism a completed moanstery (German castle) always scores exactly 9 (12).
C2: The feature scores for every tile it occupies. It follows that under cardboardism a completed moanstery (German castle) scores between 7 (12) and 17 (19) inclusive.

Q3: What are the rules for a road to be complete?
A3: I'm not sure but I believe that there must be no gaps from end to end and that this does not depend on philosophy.

Q4: What are the rules for a city to be complete?
A3: I'm not sure but I believe that, unless the la Porxada condition is met, there must be no gaps either on the edge or in the interior and that this does not depend on philosophy.

Q5: How are cities roads to be scored?
A5: The feature scores the appropriate amount for every tile it occupies (German cathedrals and city shields can score more). It follows that halflings cause roads and cities to score more under cardboardism.

Q6: Could an unmatched halfling prevent two fields from being joined.
A6: I think so but I think this is a separate question to cardboardism versus squarism.

Q7: How far can a flier fly?
A7: 1, 2 or 3 tiles. Halflings under cardboardism can reduce the options. German castles under cardboardism increases the options, since the castle itself and the length of the tile are available even if they are off angle.

Q8: Goldmines?
S8: Given two matching halflings a gold ingot is available to features on the other. An ingot must be placed on one half of the castle. The castle itself cannot benefit from the gold.
C8: Given two matching halflings a gold ingot is NOT automatically available to features on the other. An ingot on a German castle is available to all features including the castle itself.

Q8: Little buildings?
S8: Given two matching halflings a little building is available to features on the other. An little building must be placed on one half of the castle. The castle itself cannot benefit from the little building.
C8: Given two matching halflings a little building is NOT automatically available to features on the other. An little building on a German castle is available to all features including the castle itself.

Q9: The plague? Towers? The dragon?
S9: Under squarism movement is natural and intuitive. A single unmatched halfling does not block movement or capture.
C9: The whole notion of the direction breaks down and has to be defined in several ad hoc rules.


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