Author Topic: Tower and Phantom (Read 11371 times)

SRBO · « **on:** January 03, 2015, 03:04:23 AM »

Hello guys,

When im playing with the tower and the phantom i have some questions..

The Tower is move the wood phase 1
and phantom move the wood phase 2, am i right?

Does this mean that i can put a phantom on a tower directly?
and that when i remove a follower from a city that is connected to the tower tile that i can place a phantom on that empty city?

Grtz

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1398.0

kettlefish · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2015, 08:18:40 AM »

Quote from: SRBO on January 03, 2015, 03:04:23 AM

The Tower is move the wood phase 1
and phantom move the wood phase 2, am i right?

Yes, that is correct.

Rosco · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2015, 08:58:36 AM »

Yes - but if you place a phantom on the tower it stops the tower from kidnapping and the phantom is lost for the game.
I think that what you mean is to place a tower piece on a tower to kidnap an opponents follower and then place your phantom - this would be possible if the tile you place adds to the city in question.

MrNumbers · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2015, 10:24:58 AM »

Quote from: SRBO on January 03, 2015, 03:04:23 AM

and that when i remove a follower from a city that is connected to the tower tile that i can place a phantom on that empty city?

I can only add, that you can do that, but you shouldn't do that, because your phantom will be very vulnerable, standing on a tower tile (unless this tile doesn't finish the city).

Rosco · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2015, 10:30:52 AM »

But the tower piece you add could be on any tower tile in the game.

MrNumbers · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2015, 10:43:23 AM »

Quote from: Rosco on January 03, 2015, 10:30:52 AM

But the tower piece you add could be on any tower tile in the game.

True, I didn't think that way

Should play sometime with these expansions together.

jungleboy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2015, 11:08:08 AM »

Quote from: MrNumbers on January 03, 2015, 10:43:23 AM

Should play sometime with these expansions together.

We could start with the next weekly game on Thursday. Maybe Dan will let us play with the Tower if we sweeten the pot with the Phantom

Decar · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2015, 03:19:19 PM »

Just want to make sure I understand the question:

The order of play goes like this:

There's a city with another player's meeple in it.
I can lay a tile with a tower+city; so it joins that city.
Then I chose to lay a tower piece and assuming it's in range, take the other player's meeple from the city.
Then, if the city is empty, I can place the Phantom on the city.

I can see the CAR does mention: "The phantom may also be placed as a second piece in addition to the builder, pig, or any other “move the wood” piece such as movement of the fairy or placement of a tower piece."

SRBO · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2015, 12:58:02 AM »

Yes Decar something like that.
Its more like a Option question..

When i use the phantom with the tower.

i have 3 options:

1. i build a tower on it AND put a phantom on a random other feature.
2. i build a tower on it AND put a phantom ON the tower (There can be a possibility that this is absoluty necessary)
3. i build a tower on it, it removes a phantom of a city next to it. AND then i put a phantom on it.

If the tower piece and the phantom need to be played "at the same time". Only option 1 can be played. if the phantom can be played as a second phase.. then both 3 options can occure.

Am i correct?

grmichal · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2015, 10:11:16 AM »

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the option 3 is incorrect. You can capture an opponent after adding your phantom.
(Compare S-CAR v7.0, page 181, Steps: 4D, 4F, 5).

obervet · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2015, 11:12:11 AM »

Quote from: grmichal on January 05, 2015, 10:11:16 AM

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the option 3 is incorrect. You can capture an opponent after adding your phantom.
(Compare S-CAR v7.0, page 181, Steps: 4D, 4F, 5).

I think SRBO's interpretation with 3 options is correct. Based on the rules, the tower placement is the first "move wood" action, and the results of that action happen immediately. Then the placement of a phantom can occur -- this has to be after the first part. Footnote 408 (CAR v. 7.3) states that the phantom is the last piece played on the turn, so the 2 parts are not simultaneous.

The "Resolve" step in the Order of Play is a bit of an artificial construct, as this phase isn't really part of the official rules. It's really just a catch-all for things that happen after the wood moves but before scoring happens (like Dragon movement). This doesn't seem to be the case with Tower placement, so I would say that the Order of Play in v. 7.0 was incorrect in that respect. (The rules for things that actually belong there explicitly state that they happen after the figure-placing step.) However, that has been corrected in CAR v 7.3 (on newsstands now): Get it right here!

obervet · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2015, 11:26:47 AM »

At the risk of derailing this thread, grmichal's post did make me think a bit -- if a tile with a dragon icon is placed and extends one's field with a shepherd, does the expand/herd flock action happen first, or does the dragon move first? All we know is that both occur after a player has the opportunity to place a figure. The order of events here would be important, as the dragon eats shepherds and sheep....

SRBO · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2015, 11:50:00 AM »

the dragon comes after the follower placement right?
the expanding of the flock i think is before this?

SRBO · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2015, 11:50:24 AM »

Thanks anyway for the replies guys

obervet · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2015, 12:04:41 PM »

Quote from: SRBO on January 05, 2015, 11:50:00 AM

the dragon comes after the follower placement right?
the expanding of the flock i think is before this?

Both are actually after follower placement by the HiG rules. If you go with ZMG rules, you are correct -- the flock action happens before follower/figure placement. (And, of course, the old RGG rules had the dragon move at the end of the turn, so there's plenty of opportunity for confusion here.)