So what does the order of feature completion actually impact. I can only find the wagon and the school.
Quote from: Carcking on July 24, 2014, 12:25:16 PMRegarding the placement of a Flea - it would seem a player could flea his own follower (anytime) in order to have one to place that turn. Also, is there a similar sequence with the Tower if a player ransoms a follower back at anytime? (Although admittedly there is a cost associated with that one.)I agree that these would be legitimate. The difference with these (compared to the tunnel situation) is that the return of a follower carries a negative cost (no score for the one that was flea'd, a payment for the one that was tower'd).
Regarding the placement of a Flea - it would seem a player could flea his own follower (anytime) in order to have one to place that turn. Also, is there a similar sequence with the Tower if a player ransoms a follower back at anytime? (Although admittedly there is a cost associated with that one.)
Think we (or at least I) could use a few examples.I can't see any issues with:
Gold Mines It's a regular tile and scoring. The bars are handed in order, player's turn and clockwise during the feature completion to those that share the completed feature.
The Messages Only the player who's turn it is, is able to get one and only one message. If that players scores several times in one turn, he or she may choose the score order, if possible, and get a message if one of those scoring steps lands on an eligable number on the scoreboard. He or she may also choose each score source which of the two tokens on the scoreboard to move. This is the reason we rarely use this expansion, because it slows down the game.
The Castle The first segment completed nearby triggers the effect and the owner of the castle scores, whether or not other effects or conditions takes place.
Quote from: obervet on July 25, 2014, 03:25:40 PMIn going back and reading the rules, I think there is actually an argument to be made for tunnel token placement during the Move Wood phase. The rules state that the token may be placed "on the land tile which has just been placed", seemingly indicating that this is after tile placement. It doesn't say that you can't place a token during the scoring phase, but to me it kind of sounds like a Move Wood action that doesn't prevent follower placement.It looks to me that this would be sensible and consistent with what we know. I may of course change my mind later.P.S. I would suggest adding "claim tunnel" as a step 4G with a note that actually it can be any part of step 4. I can see reasons for claiming the tunnel late (for example waiting to see the flier dice roll) but I cannot see any reasons for early tunnel placement better tham "do it now before I forget".
In going back and reading the rules, I think there is actually an argument to be made for tunnel token placement during the Move Wood phase. The rules state that the token may be placed "on the land tile which has just been placed", seemingly indicating that this is after tile placement. It doesn't say that you can't place a token during the scoring phase, but to me it kind of sounds like a Move Wood action that doesn't prevent follower placement.
Quote from: obervet on July 25, 2014, 01:02:27 PMQuote from: Carcking on July 24, 2014, 12:25:16 PMRegarding the placement of a Flea - it would seem a player could flea his own follower (anytime) in order to have one to place that turn. Also, is there a similar sequence with the Tower if a player ransoms a follower back at anytime? (Although admittedly there is a cost associated with that one.)I agree that these would be legitimate. The difference with these (compared to the tunnel situation) is that the return of a follower carries a negative cost (no score for the one that was flea'd, a payment for the one that was tower'd).There doesn't have to be an expense to fleaing a follower. It is likely you would only do so if it was beneficial to you, which seems to make is similar to why you would place a tunnel token at any particular time. Perhaps the flead follower was trapped in a minority situation or in a besieged or cathedral city, or a lake road, etc.
Quote from: asparagus on July 25, 2014, 10:34:53 PMSo what does the order of feature completion actually impact. I can only find the wagon and the school.A few others would be the Castle, collecting Gold and the Messages. There may be others we'll have to think of.I agree, there is a conflict in the scoring sequence between the current player choosing the sequence vs the Robber being able to decide who to steal points from. If he has to take the first player that scores it seems the active player will dictate who that will be.So we have:The RobbersGold MinesThe MessagesThe CastleThe WagonThe TeacherI don't recall how it came to be that all scoring during the scoring phase was not considered simultaneous. If it were the case then such decisions as the Teacher, the Robber, the Castle would be the choice of those players. The Wagon moving, the Messages and collecting Gold is resolved in turn order. Not sure what other mechanics we're not thinking of yet - but they may fall into either of those two categories: players' choice or turn order resolution.This is all a case for "the active player decides" to be obsoleted, since HiG has challenged the scoring order with the nature of several of the new expansions.Now I cannot think of a scenario where it is equitable for the active player to decide...
...The Turn Order has been put together by users on this forum, which is why there is fuzziness when it comes to some of the steps relative to recent rulings. I wholeheartedly agree that the Turn Order needs some updating, but it still has do be done within the confines of the official rules and clarifications from HiG.
What do you all think - should we start a new topic about the Turn Order Summary, like that one what we have had in the old CarcC Forum?
Quote from: kettlefish on July 30, 2014, 05:27:51 AMWhat do you all think - should we start a new topic about the Turn Order Summary, like that one what we have had in the old CarcC Forum?I've been talking with obervet recently, and I will be working on updating the Turn Order Summary this Fall. I will take all the suggestions I can get, so might not be a bad idea to start a new thread.
Started by Scott
Started by obervet
Started by sammyo