Messages

1

Official Rules / Re: Wikicarpedia - Reference Pages Review - Order of Play

« on: March 13, 2019, 10:43:53 AM »

Interesting points.  My hangup was on the words (in quotes):  After a pyramid has been scored, "players can start a new pyramid on the same tile" by placing a meeple as an acrobat on it.  I took it to mean they could score the completed feature and then place another meeple.  But I didn't take into account "Instead of placing a meeple or any other figure during 2. Placing a meeple, you can score a completed pyramid" as part of my thought process.  So that's where my failure began. 

After re-read reading the rules and your points, I am of the opinion it still needs further clarification from a programming standpoint.  Later today I am going to right some pseudo code and try to address your points and my concerns and see what shakes out.

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Official Rules / Re: Wikicarpedia - Reference Pages Review - Order of Play

« on: March 12, 2019, 07:19:05 AM »

Thank you for starting this thread Meepledrone.  I'm already looking forward to the many spirited discussion it will generate, lol. So lets get this party started.

Think the first area that needs serious work is the C2 version of Order of Play in regards to expansion 10 Under the Big Top when placing and scoring acrobats.  As it is currently written, it is impossible to properly play and score acrobats. 


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From the rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles

After a pyramid has been scored, players can start a new pyramid on the same tile by placing a meeple as an acrobat on it.


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From Order of Play (select only  Exp. 10 - Under The Big Top):

Step 2B-1: Move the Wood (Phase 1)

You may do one and only one of the following:

    Deploy a meeple.
        Normal meeple
        Ringmaster
    Perform an acrobat action if the tile was placed adjacent to an acrobat tile:
        Add a normal meeple to an uncompleted acrobat pyramid.
        Score a completed acrobat pyramid finished in a previous turn.


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The current rules and the Order of Play aren't in sync.  To get them in sync, we need to move the scoring of the acrobats outside of section Step 2B-1.  Lets see if we can clean this up.

Here are the conditions: 
1) Be able to score a completed acrobat pyramid, after the placement of a new tile adjacent to the acrobat tile.
2) Be able to place an acrobat on the same acrobat tile, that was just scored, after the pyramid has been removed (due to scoring).

The only way, at present, I can see to fix this condition is to add a new check and resolution phase for scoring of the pyramid on an acrobat tile. It has to be done between Step 1C: Place the Tile and Step 2. Placing a meeple.

As far as I can tell this change should not impact any other expansion interaction once completed.


Now for the fun part. Wording.  Thankfully this section already exists

Step 1C: Place the Tile

    Place the tile.
    Note: any feature that is finished is considered complete at this time.

That note is exactly the condition we have.  The check and resolution of the pyramid, on an acrobat tile, happens the moment the new tile is placed next to it.


So lets add a step G to fix this issue.

g. Check the tiles adjacent to the one just placed.  For each acrobat tile found, check for the completion of a pyramid (three meeples) on that tile. If found, the owner of each meeple is awarded 5 points. Return the meeples to their owners.

Remove from Step 2B-1: Move the Wood (Phase 1) subsection b "Score a completed acrobat pyramid finished in a previous turn." and that should fix everything quite nicely.


Ok, let the fun begin.  Does my solution truly fix this issue? 

3

Official Rules / Re: Must or may - The Princess (The Princess and The Dragon)

« on: March 11, 2019, 02:49:29 PM »

You didn't get to technical for me, lol.  Have been a software developer for the past 33 years, so I understood everything you were saying. 

Your approach to this has me quite intrigued and incredibly impressed.  So it would be my honor to review your hard work.  Because one thing we both share is the true headache of trying to make sure every base is covered under every condition.  You might have noticed my original approach was actually based on what it would take to actually program the game.  In fact some of the testing I did was actually written as code just to see where the flaws were. 

I'm just coming up to speed with the C2 rule set.  When I first started reading them, they actually felt familiar which I found odd. And then it occurred to me. They had probably read the CAR at some point because their clarification of interactions between expansions, at the end of each rule booklet, covered a lot of the points that CAR covered.

Is there a particular thread you would like me to add any comments or questions that might arise?  I don't wish to pollute this thread with technical talk about rule's timing, lol.

4

Official Rules / Re: Carcassonne The Castle - Tiles to score for incomplete features

« on: March 11, 2019, 12:26:01 PM »

This and The City are my favorite stand alone versions of Carcassonne.  Using only the road as the hard join points of a tile make for some very interesting strategies.  Now on to your question, lol.

From the rule booklet:  The player scores 2 point per tile for 1 uncompleted tower (at game end).

I tend to be very "lawyer-ish" about rules.  So my opinion is, you can only use one wall tile per feature. 

My reasoning is the following:  When you have scored a feature the last step is to remove the meeple from the feature.  So in this case you present the wall tile, you score the uncompleted feature, you remove the meeple.  That to me suggests you can't use two wall tiles on the same feature.

But then again I am not Not HiG or Reiner Knizia.  So I would play it how you desire.  Just make sure everyone knows the rule you want to use.

5

Official Rules / Re: Must or may - The Princess (The Princess and The Dragon)

« on: March 11, 2019, 07:36:26 AM »

Back when I was working on the unified Turn Order Summary for the CAR (now called Order of Play), must and may was always a little tricky to deal with due to making sure when the exact moment something had to happen.  Especially when there were several must/mays that might be triggered at once.  Personally, I have always preferred may over must.  There are several tactical reasons for this in my opinion.  The first being a very early draw of a princess tile where you are forced to play that tile on your own castle and inadvertently remove your own knight.  In fact it happened enough times we had a house rule that in the event that did happen, you were not forced to remove the knight. 

Quick side note. My lovely wife bought me an entire new set of the current Z-Man Game's print run of Carcassonne, because I like the new art work, for Valentines Day.  The printed rules for Princess and the Dragon has the rule listed a may not must for removal of the knight.  With that in mind...

When I was doing a once over of the new printed rules, I noticed Z-Man Game now uses the term meeple and figures interchangeably.  They had a chance to really clean up the nomenclature and sadly didn't.  Fortunately they did a fairly good job at the end of each rule set to list how the expansion rules effect the base game, all mini expansions and the 8 major expansions (save for Catapult which I am grateful they didn't reprint and the Under the Big Top, which hadn't been released at the time these rules were rewritten).