Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Reviews & Session Reports => Topic started by: Big Guy on November 07, 2013, 07:50:47 AM
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Good day all,
Here are several thoughts I have on a new Rating System for expansions. Ive also started reviewing different expansions using it as examples. Ive been inspired by Wickes efforts over the past few months as he continues to organize all the expansions and variants into his spreadsheet. He was kind enough to forward me a version of his spreadsheet a few months ago, which sparked the ideas below.
Reviewed Expansions in this Thread:
----RATINGS----Expansion Name----
1) A-5-5-5--Carcassonne, the Base Game--
2) A-5-5-5--(Fan-Made) Wells (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=232), by Meepleater--
3) D-5-3-4--(Fan-Made) Forests (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=44), by Scott and Novelty--
4) B-5-4-5--Inns & Cathedrals--
5) C-4-2-3--The Tower--
6) B-5-5-5--(Fan-Made) Fortune Teller (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=151), by JPutt927--
7) B-4-5-4--(Fan-Made) Animal Farm (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=196), by Carcking--
8) B-5-2-3--(Fan-Made) Family Feud (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=86), by Frederick Renaud, with assistance from Novelty--
9) B-3-2-2--(Fan-Made) Noblemen (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=230), by Wicke (Patrik Wikstrom)--
10) A-4-5-5--(Fan-Made) The House of Valois (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=229), by Wicke (Patrik Wikstrom)--
11) C-4-5-4--(Fan-Made) Wanderer and Mayors Office (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=213), by Leven--
12) C-4-2-3--The Princess & The Dragon--
13) B-5-3-4--(Fan-Made) The Abbot (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=201), by BT--
14) B-5-4-4--Cult Places/Shrines, from CULT,SIEGE&CREATIVITY--
15) B-4-3-3--Siege Tiles, from CULT,SIEGE&CREATIVITY--
16) C-4-4-4--(Fan-Made) The Invaders (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=160), by Derek Whaley (Whaleyland)--
17) E-3-2-2--(Fan-Made) The Marshes (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=192), by Trebuchet--
18) C-4-3-4--(Fan-Made) The Missionary (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=227), by Chris Korfmann--
19) B-5-5-5--(Fan-Made) Breweries (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=172), by Meepleater--
20) B-5-4-4--(Fan-Made) Farmer in the Dell (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=220), by Carcking and Others--
Rating system:
INVASIVENESS (scored A-B-C-D-E) - How much does the expansion change the base rules.
--some items to consider here: total types of tile sides, total types of features, tile shape(s) [lol, if we ever implement triangles], total meeple types, total additional tiles, length of additional rules documents, etc...
-A Minimally invasive. No or only minor rule changes (only one turn phase affected), no new features, meeples or tile sides. [example: WELLS, as a well isn't technically a new feature, just as a pennant isn't a feature].
-B Minor or medium rule changes (one or two turn phases affected, minimal MOVING OF THE WOOD changes). One new feature or meeple. Other minor additions related to scoring. No new tile sides or shapes. Multiple new tiles needed.
-C Medium rule changes. MOVING OF THE WOOD changes. New features or new meeples. Possible new tile side types. Possibly dozens of new tiles needed. More than one turn phase affected by rule changes.
-D Medium or major rule changes. Several new features or meeples. Most likely new tile sides, or new shapes. Many new tiles needed.
-E Major rule changes, all turn phases and/or options affected. New tile sides, features, meeples, etc... (Example: OCEANS)
QUALITY (Scored 1-5) - What is the quality of the tile images and rules documents, and are there gaps in the printed rules that leave room for assumption in certain scenarios?
FUN (Scored 1-5) -Subjectively, how fun is the expansion for you or others you play with?
OVERALL (Scored 1-5) -Combining subjective and objective, how would you rate this expansion overall?
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I'd like to review everything, but who has the time? However, I'd like you all to understand where I'm coming from if I ever do get to reviewing any of these, so here's my review of CARCASSONNE the BASE GAME, just so you can see the ratings in action:
REVIEW OF CARCASSONNE, the BASE GAME
INVASIVENESS: A
-Tiles: 72
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal)
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square)
-Tile Side Types: 3 (City, Road, Field)
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister)
-For the purposes of this review, I rated the BASE GAME an A, as there are no rule changes between the BASE GAME and the BASE GAME :c). I'll use this comparison in the future, and hopefully for expansions it will make more sense.
QUALITY: 5
-All turn phases detailed, including pictures, turn breakdown and scoring for each of the 4 feature types. No noticable gaps in rules, especially considering the updates made by the CAR team in the most recently available CAR document. Tiles and printing are good quality and rules read well.
FUN-NESS: 5
-It's my favorite board game for a reason. I especially enjoy the difference between the 4 feature types, and how unique they are. My only minor gripe with the base game is how cities and fields tend to 'out-score' roads and cloisters, and due to this slight balancing issue, luck-of-the-draw plays more of a role than I'd like it to. I take no points off for this as I feel it is so minor that it still warrants a score of 5.
OVERALL: 5
-Again, it's my favorite for a reason. Great game, simple to pick up and play, easy to get addicted.
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Hi!
I'm glad to see several members are seeing the need of organizing the fanmade expansions.
Personally, I don't require much info much less a rating system. I only want to be able to see the tiles online so I do not have to download each expansion and see what it contains.
Big Guy was on the right track and I would pitch in with ideas as well.
1. Since most expansion ideas are merely text, and you can add a comment to the download section, put the entire expansion rules in a comment so people can read and decide if worth to download and try it.
2. If there are tiles and tokens made specific for the expansion, post at least one or two tiles under the comment section for that expansion. Again, so people do not have to download anything before knowing what it is.
This would solve many issues and let individuals decide whether the tiles are worth downloading, rather than having others grading them. Someone's Monet art can be another's stick figure. :meeple:
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REVIEW of the fan-made WELLS expansion, by MEEPLEATER
This review is VISUALIZED only.
INVASIVENESS: A
-Tiles used in said game: 84, New Tiles from expansion: 12
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 1 (Wells)
-There are 12 additional tiles, but very minimal changes overall. The A grade is due to how each tile plays exactly the same as the existing tiles in the base game. The rule changes do not affect anything but Scoring, which also supports the A grade.
QUALITY: 5
-Tile quality is good. Rules are simple and clear. No gaps or unknowns in any rules introduced here.
FUN-NESS: 5
-I find this expansion fun because of how simple it is and how easily it fits into the base game and its rules. I also feel it tries to address one of my minor gripes with the base game: that in the base game roads are 'not as good' as cities and fields in terms of scoring, IMHO.
OVERALL: 5
-Simple, good quality, easy to implement and play, and assists with balancing, IMHO. For these reasons, top score! Excellent work to MEEPLEATER for what I consider one of my favorite fan expansions.
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REVIEW of the fan-made FORESTS expansion, by SCOTT and NOVELTY
This review is visualized ONLY, as I haven't gotten to printing these tiles yet. I will update if printing occurs. This review assumes that only half of the forest tiles (75) are used when playing with the base game only (72), and that the 'heretic' tiles (9) are part of those forest tiles excluded. The review also assumes that no other tiles are in use, meaning no other expansions or their tiles have been included. Any change to these assumptions would affect the review, but let me know thoughts on this.
INVASIVENESS: D
-Tiles used in said game: 147, New Tiles from expansion: 75
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Forest), New Tile Side Types from expansion: 1 (Forest)
-Feature Types: 5 (City, Road, Field, Cloister, Forest), New Feature Types from expansion: 1 (Forest)
-Several medium to major changes occur with this expansion, hence the D rating. This is not a downgrade from simpler expansions, just a note that playing with FORESTS changes the base game much more than many other expansions. The amount of new tiles (75 for the purposes of this review), the new feature and tile side type, the fact that multiple turn phases change to include the new feature scoring and ownership, and the ratio of forest tiles to non-forest tiles (1:1 for the purposes of this review) all point towards the D rating. If playing with fewer of the forest tiles in relation to non-forest tiles, I could see this receiving a C rating instead.
QUALITY: 5
-Tile quality is very good. Rules are simple and clear given what I would consider as invasive changes. No gaps or unknowns in any rules introduced. The forests look good and play intuitively. Very well done across the board.
FUN-NESS: 3
-I find this expansion fun but more invasive than I would prefer, at least given the assumptions made for this review. Tile placement is the core of any Carcassonne game, and any introduction of a new tile side greatly affects how easy it is to 'close the gaps' when playing later on in the game. Not to say forests aren't fun to play with, because they are, and it's awesome to see a fan-expansion of this scope. It's one of the things I love about this community. But the rest of the gameplay in the game becomes more clunky due to what I've just described, which makes the fun-factor suffer.
OVERALL: 4
-I'm awarding a 4 for this effort due to it's scope and quality. Falls short of a 5 because of my personal opinion on how the addition of the tile side affects overall gameplay. I could say the same about other expansions that do this, and I probably will. Try this one out, as it does what it does excellently, and is simple in it's implementation. Great work to SCOTT and NOVELTY overall.
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Big Guy,
you are busy with your reviews...
I have much to read the next days...
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Big Guy,
you are busy with your reviews...
I have much to read the next days...
It's pretty obvious I have a slow day at work today, huh? :C) Thanks for reviewing all this Kettlefish. Might as well keep 'em coming while I have the time:
REVIEW of the INNS & CATHEDRALS expansion
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 90, New Tiles from expansion: 18
-Meeple Types: 2 (normal, BIG), New Type from expansion: BIG
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 2 (Cathedral, Inn on a Lake)
-I would categories this expansion as an A, but the BIG meeple and the way he changes majority determination, combined with the adjustments to scoring and final scoring for the Cathedral and Inn on a Lake give this expansion B for this category.
QUALITY: 5
-Tile quality is good, as always. Rules are simple and clear, and the clarification needed for fields that are closed in one turn was straight-forward. No gaps or unknowns in any rules introduced here. Good examples of rule details given.
FUN-NESS: 4
-I find this expansion allows players to be more assertive using the BIG meeple, and I like this effect when two players are battling for majority, especially when fields are involved. The expansion also increases how much fun it is to complete both roads and cities. I also feel it tries to address one of my minor gripes with the base game: that in the base game roads are 'not as good' as cities and fields in terms of scoring, IMHO. However, luck heavily influences who receives the new tiles, especially the Cathedrals, and the Cathedrals can make scoring of cities lopsided. The Cathedral tiles are very powerful as an offensive tool if the city is completed, and very powerful as a defensive tool if they are used on an opponents city late-game when the chance of finishing a city is lower. For these reasons, gotta take a point off.
OVERALL: 5
-Simple overall, good quality, easy to implement and play, and assists with balancing overall, IMHO. My concern with how powerful the Cathedral tiles isnt strong enough to detract a point here as well. For these reasons, top score!
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REVIEW of the THE TOWER expansion
INVASIVENESS: C
-Tiles used in said game: 90, New from expansion: 18
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 5 (City, Road, Field, Cloister, Tower), New from expansion: 1 (Tower)
-Other additions: Tower Mechanics (Capturing Meeples, Swapping captured meeples, taking ownership of towers)
-While there are only 18 new tiles and 1 new feature type, I would categorize this expansion as a C. MOVING OF THE WOOD has changed in several ways, adding several valid options related to towers, and the tower mechanics to capture, swap and/or ransom meeples is more than a little invasive.
QUALITY: 4
-Tile quality is good, as usual. Rules are straightforward, but description of some mechanics is harder to understand than that described in the base game.
FUN-NESS: 2
-I'm not very happy with how this expansion plays. The mechanics of actually capturing meeples and ransoming them are fun, and the placement of tower segments is very inventive, but the rules feel flawed and clunky as well. The mechanic regarding taking ownership of a tower to protect yourself from that growing tower seems especially clunky, considering it involves committing a meeple for the rest of the game and receiving no score for that meeple in return. I agree with others that being able to capture a meeple by placing a tower segment on the empty tower foundation of a tile next to that meeple feels unbalanced, and I support the house rule that addresses this, allowing only meeples on the tile with the tower foundation to be captured in this way. Too clunky, and the fun factor suffers.
OVERALL: 3
-Not my favorite. As above, I appreciate the tile design, the inventiveness of using the tower segments, and the ideas behind the mechanics for capturing and ransoming. But they don't play well in practice, at least not for me.
SHAMELESS PLUG: On a separate note, several of the flaws and clunky bits I've noted here were my initial motivation for creating the FOREMAN IN THE TOWER variant. If you agree with this review, go check out my take on the rules, and see how it stacks up. :cD
LINK: FOREMAN IN THE TOWER (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=197)
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Great Idea Big Guy!
Merit for you! :(y)
It's a big step to organize all the expansions
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Great Idea Big Guy!
Merit for you! :(y)
It's a big step to organize all the expansions
Thanks evmillan. Much appreciated. I've been interested to do something like this for a while.
Have some time, so here's another review, of yet another expansion I haven't yet printed but consider one of my favorite ideas.
REVIEW of the FORTUNE TELLER expansion by JPUTT927
This review is VISUALIZED only. This review assumes you're playing with the BASE GAME, plus any FORTUNE TELLER tiles usable at that time. As such, only 6 FORTUNE TELLER tiles are used, and the 'expansion interaction' is ignored.
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 78, New from expansion: 6
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 5 (City, Road, Field, Cloister, Fortune Teller), New from expansion: 1 (Fortune Teller)
-Other additions: 1 (Fortune Teller mechanics)
-I consider this expansion in the B category. One new feature type, and while multiple turn phases are affected, the only non-minor change is to phase 1 of a player with a FORTUNE TELLER. Scoring for this new feature is simple and non-invasive.
QUALITY: 5
-Tiles quality and editing looks good. Rule detail is very good, and there are no noticeable rule gaps when playing with just the base game. I could see taking a point off if using the Fortune Teller with other expansions that also affect phase 1 and tile drawing, due to the additional complexity required of the rules, but top score in the absence of that complexity.
FUN-NESS: 5
-I find this expansion very creative in its take on phase 1 tile drawing. It plays well when visualized. I tend to think that players who get a fortune teller have a clear advantage while they have ownership, which could be lopsided. However, I took no point off because this is balanced by the opponents ability to finish the fortune teller, and by scoring going to the player who places the final tile. This also differentiates the scoring of a FORTUNE TELLER from the scoring of a CLOISTER, which helps the feature stands on its own rather than feeling like a 'copy' of another feature.
OVERALL: 5
-Simple in its creativity. Plays well with the base game. Balances itself well, IMHO. Highly recommended.
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Very good, nice idea and nice work.
I would add in the reviews of the fan-exp, the direct link to download. :meeple: :green-meeple: :blue-meeple:
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Nice work Big Guy - and quite ambitious indeed!
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Have some time, so here's another review, of yet another expansion I haven't yet printed but consider one of my favorite ideas.
REVIEW of the FORTUNE TELLER expansion by JPUTT927
Actually, I like this one as well, but I have made some changes to it, and doesn't use those tiles, since I don't think they work with the theme of the rest of Carcassonne.
I use the Bazaar tiles instead and two wooden tents.
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Thanks for the support guys. We'll see how far I get, as I don't expect to come anywhere near reviewing everything. I may need to recruit some other forum members to help get to all the reviews, eventually (CARCKING and WICKE, I'm looking at YOU, :c). Seriously, if anyone is ever interested in using this format for a review that you post, just let me know and feel free to post it in this thread. I'll update my initial post with the review scores.
Also, if there's any interest, I can post rules in the initial post. I'm thinking something like:
-you CANNOT review your own work (for obvious reasons)
-only reviews of expansions that the AUTHOR of the review considers complete may be reviewed (to avoid reviewing something that's still actively changing)
-etc...
Anyway, here's another review for today:
REVIEW of the ANIMAL FARM expansion by CARCKING
This review assumes you're playing with the BASE GAME tiles only and is visualized.
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 72, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 2 (Animal tokens/placement, additional animal adjustments for field scoring)
-I consider this expansion in the B category. No new tiles are needed, and most aspects of the base game are unaffected. However, during the course of play for the base game, 22 of the animal tokens are drawn, and the rules for placement and interaction of the tokens are detailed and extensive.
QUALITY: 4
-Rule quality and depth is excellent. The token images are detailed and fun. The majority of the tokens are easy to understand. However, I'm taking a point off for how small the token images in the provided document are, for the detail needed to handle the token interaction in some cases (as it makes the rules more confusing for a first time reader) and for the power inherent in the feoffer token, which I consider as introducing some imbalance in an otherwise balanced expansion (See below for a specific example). As I stated initially, overall the rule detail and quality is excellent, the 3 items I've noted here are minor, and the rules contain no noticable gaps or exceptions.
Example of a specific feoffer situation: The feoffer allows a player to immediately have majority in any field once the player plays a follower legally on it. In cases where one player has 3+ followers in a field, another player can take ownership of a feoffer tile in an unconnected field, connect the fields, and score that field.
FUN-NESS: 5
-I see this expansion as inventive and fun to play. It's simple in most ways, and the token interaction and complexity functions very well. It makes the fields feel alive and dynamic in a very creative way. I like how no additional tiles are needed and token placement is un-intrusive. It adds a lot to field play without detracting from the scoring of other features, IMHO.
OVERALL: 4
-Fields were always important, and this expansion enriches the field-scoring experience. My notes on the complexity needed in the rules and my personal impression of the feoffer token are the only reasons this scored a 4. The majority of games played with this expansion won't even see the feoffer played. This fan expansion is one of my favorites for enriching field interaction and scoring, and I highly recommend you give this one a try!
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Here's a review for a fan expansion that stood out to me early on during my time on the site for its simple implementation. So long as I have the time to chip away at this project, I'll keep posting. As I stated, let me know if anyone else is interested in helping by posting a review or two.
REVIEW of the fan-made FAMILY FEUD expansion, by Frederick Renaud, with assistance from Novelty
This review assumes that all 30 tiles are added into the base game tiles. This review is visualized, as I haven't printed these tiles yet.
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 102, New Tiles from expansion: 30
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 1 (Yellow and Red Pennants)
-This expansion is only categorized as a 'B' because of the number of tiles needed, and how much those 30 additional tiles effect gameplay if only playing with the base game. There are no new features or meeples and the rules are straightforward, clear and draw heavily on the existing pennant rules. The only minor changes to speak of are to tile placement and scoring. This expansion WOULD receive a different (and possibly more positive) review if either only a subset of the 30 tiles were used, or if this was played with multiple expansions.
QUALITY: 5
-Tile quality is excellent. Rules are simple and clear. No gaps or unknowns in any rules introduced here. The ideas are also easy to understand based on the rules provided.
FUN-NESS: 2
-I find this expansion creative and easy to understand, but it introduces some elements that I don't welcome. It shifts the focus heavily to city-building, and introduces more strategy and depth to placing city tiles. This detracts from the fun factor for me as introduces balancing issues to mid-game feature scoring, IMHO. By heightening the city-building experience, it detracts from the value of roads especially. Additionally, it can be frustrating to draw a tile that has the exact sides you want, but you can't use it the way you'd like because it has a different pennant color than what's already in your city. This is from someone who likes the balance of the 4 feature types in the base game and tends to resist anything that shifts the focus more towards cities in this way.
OVERALL: 3
-Simple rules, good quality, and easy to implement and play. However, introduces balancing issues by focusing more on cities, and can be frustrating in certain situations, IMHO. However, for players who love cities and want more focus on them, this expansion delivers overall.
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REVIEW of the fan-made NOBLEMEN expansion, by WICKE
This review is VISUALIZED only.
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 72, no change from base game
-Number of total followers per player: 10 (7 normal, 3 Noblemen) 3 Noblemen added per player for this expansion
-Meeple Types: 3 (normal, Noblemen, Neutral Noblemen), 2 meeple types added by this expansion
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 1 (Noblemen placement/ownership rules)
-There are no new tiles, and tile placement is unaffected. The addition of the 2 meeple types, and the rules that govern them are semi-complex and affect both placement, ownership of meeples AND ownership of features, putting this expansion in the B category.
QUALITY: 3
-The rule quality and detail is good, the opening line about the 'French Farmers' is excellent, and the images used are also good. However, turn phase isn't broken down using the standard form, which is minor but affects readability. There is a lot of detail that governs the White Noblemen, and there are gaps in the rules to govern who owns a White Noblemen, when and for how long. The Q/A sections at the bottom of each rule page help to answer these gaps in many cases.
FUN-NESS: 2
-I like the inventiveness of the story and the idea behind the new followers. However, when played with ONLY the base game, this expansion changes follower management in a way I find off-putting. One of the staples of the base game is how you play so that you don't 'over-extend' yourself and end up with no followers to place mid-game. The addition of the 3 Noblemen per player, each one worth the same as 2 NORMAL followers for ownership purposes, almost negates the need for any kind of follower management. In addition, a player can 'earn' another follower, the SPECIAL WHITE NOBLEMEN (worth 3 NORMAL followers for ownership) by meeting certain criteria with normal Noblemen placement. The idea behind the White Noblemen is very cool and dynamic, but it also further negates the need for follower management, which decreased fun-factor, IMHO.
OVERALL: 2
-Simple to implement, good use of meeple types from another game, good story and inventive idea. However, basically negates the need for follower management, which is a negative for me. That combined with semi-confusing rules to govern the White Noblemen, is the reason for my score. If you are a player who dislikes follower management and welcomes its negation in this way, please add one, if not two points to the OVERALL score and consider giving this one a try.
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It's a WICKE double-header today :c).
REVIEW of the fan-made THE HOUSE OF VALOIS expansion, by WICKE
This review is VISUALIZED only.
INVASIVENESS: A
-Tiles used in said game: 72, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 1 (2 GOLD special meeples, both royal Valois family members)
-This expansion is incredibly simple to play and to understand. No new tiles and turn phases are almost unaffected. The expansion effectively adds one additional MOVING OF THE WOOD choice and some changes that affect scoring. Category A, all the way!
QUALITY: 4
-Rule quality, detail and simplicity is great. Images used are high quality. Taking one point off for two VERY minor notes: the rules have minor gaps, and are not in the standard turn phase format. See below for specific rule gaps: Again, overall great quality here.
1) When a player attempts to use his MOVING OF THE WOOD action to place a GOLD meeple when both GOLD meeples are already deployed to cities, who chooses which meeple is moved in the case that either meeple could be legally moved?
2) What happens at end-of-game to incomplete cities with these meeples? Assuming they score no points, as the rules refer to a COMPLETE city for scoring.
FUN-NESS: 5
-I find this expansion simple and intuitive, and I think it plays well without introducing any balance issues. I appreciate that the main driving force for these new meeples is the placement of a tile with a pennant onto a city already owned by the player. This expansion adds something simple and fun, without detracting from the base game at all, IMHO.
OVERALL: 5
-Very simple, great quality, great story as an opener, and great fun. Highly recommended, especially for those who don't have easy means to create their own tiles.
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Initial posted updated.
EDITS MADE AND SCORE CHANGED ON 11/22, to account for LEVENs updated version of the rules (1.1) :c)
REVIEW of the fan-made WANDERER and MAYORS OFFICE expansion, by LEVEN
This review assumes that all 8 tiles are added into the base game tiles. This review is visualized, as I haven't printed these tiles yet.
INVASIVENESS: C
-Tiles used in said game: 80, New Tiles from expansion: 8
-Meeple Types: 4 (normal, Mayor, Mayor's OFFICE, Wanderer), New meeple types from expansion: 2 (Mayor's OFFICE and Wanderer)
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 3 (Wanderer placement/movement, Mayor's OFFICE placement/movement, ROAD NETWORK mechanics)
-I consider this expansion a C, as 3 additional meeple types are involved for the expansion to work (2 of them new), because of the relatively complex rules required for the new movements and placements, and because the ROAD NETWORK, while not technically a new feature, becomes much more important and adds a completely new level of complexity to how features are connected by roads. Lots of content here.
QUALITY: 4
-Tile quality is excellent, rule detail is great and considering the complexity of what is introduced here, overall quality is very good. Especially like the tile breakdown examples, as they illustrate the new mechanics very well. The rules do not use the most recent turn phase breakdown, and include expansion interaction and footnotes to cover many different play scenarios. Both of these choices were made deliberately by the author for the sake of detail and accuracy, but readability suffers as a result, as many of the rules reference interactions not needed if playing with just the BASE GAME, the MAYOR, and this expansion. That said, because of the detail included, there are no noticable gaps. Overall excellent quality here.
FUN-NESS: 5
-This expansion is a blast. Extremely inventive and very fun ideas, implemented well. I almost classified ROAD NETWORKS as a new feature because of how well they're implemented here and how much they add. And based on my visualization, they introduce no balance issues, since they don't interfere with how other features are played and scored. It makes the game board feel more connected, feels intuitive, and looks great. TOP SCORE!
OVERALL: 4
-I like this expansion a bunch. It does a lot of very complex things very well, and the turn examples are an awesome tool to assist with understanding all the new complexity. There is a lot of detail and depth to take in initially, but it's inventive, intuitive and very well implemented. Highly recommended overall!
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Thanks Big Guy for this overall positive feedback about W&MO, especially that you could not try the expansion so far. I hope your opinion won't change after playing it.
I agree that there are gaps in the rules. I'll try to answer your questions in the topic of the expansion soon.
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Like your work Big Guy!
I wonder if just the rankings could be placed in a spreadsheet as a quick reference? Possibly something like on BGG, along with links to game rules, reviews, etc.
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Thanks Big Guy for this overall positive feedback about W&MO, especially that you could not try the expansion so far. I hope your opinion won't change after playing it.
I agree that there are gaps in the rules. I'll try to answer your questions in the topic of the expansion soon.
Thanks Leven. I'm excited to try W&MO out, as well as many others. I just don't have the means or the time to actually create and play much right now.
Thanks for the feedback. I wonder how my reviews are being received, and I want to show my honest opinion without stepping on any toes, so I appreciate your input. :c)
Like your work Big Guy!
I wonder if just the rankings could be placed in a spreadsheet as a quick reference? Possibly something like on BGG, along with links to game rules, reviews, etc.
Thanks harvster. The closest thing I have to your request is the initial post in this thread, which has a short list of all reviews with their scores, along with a link to each fan-expansion reviewed. I'll keep that list updated with all reviews here in this thread. I don't have plans to maintain a document separate from this, at least not for now. Maybe every 20 reviews, I could generate something like that and post it, if there's interest. I'm sure you can copy the short list I've provided from my 1st post into a spreadsheet for the time being.
Thanks again for the input.
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It's a WICKE double-header today :c).
REVIEW of the fan-made THE HOUSE OF VALOIS expansion, by WICKE
This review is VISUALIZED only.
INVASIVENESS: A
-Tiles used in said game: 72, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 1 (2 GOLD special meeples, both royal Valois family members)
-This expansion is incredibly simple to play and to understand. No new tiles and turn phases are almost unaffected. The expansion effectively adds one additional MOVING OF THE WOOD choice and some changes that affect scoring. Category A, all the way!
QUALITY: 4
-Rule quality, detail and simplicity is great. Images used are high quality. Taking one point off for two VERY minor notes: the rules have minor gaps, and are not in the standard turn phase format. See below for specific rule gaps: Again, overall great quality here.
1) When a player attempts to use his MOVING OF THE WOOD action to place a GOLD meeple when both GOLD meeples are already deployed to cities, who chooses which meeple is moved in the case that either meeple could be legally moved?
2) What happens at end-of-game to incomplete cities with these meeples? Assuming they score no points, as the rules refer to a COMPLETE city for scoring.
FUN-NESS: 5
-I find this expansion simple and intuitive, and I think it plays well without introducing any balance issues. I appreciate that the main driving force for these new meeples is the placement of a tile with a pennant onto a city already owned by the player. This expansion adds something simple and fun, without detracting from the base game at all, IMHO.
OVERALL: 5
-Very simple, great quality, great story as an opener, and great fun. Highly recommended, especially for those who don't have easy means to create their own tiles.
Thanks for the positive feedback to my "The House of Valois" expansion.
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REVIEW of the fan-made NOBLEMEN expansion, by WICKE
Sorry to see the low score for my "Noblemen" expansion.
We only play this expansion in Mega Carc games so then the factor of follower management doesn't affect the game that much.
But I see your point if you play this expansion with just the base game, but that's every players choice, I wouldn't.
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Hey Big Guy, have you considered rating the official expansions to establish a frame of reference? Might be interesting to see where they land.
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Thanks for the reply Wicke. I'm glad the reasons for my scoring of NOBLEMEN made sense, as I didn't want to step on any toes. And you're right, playing in a MEGA CARC game changes the parameters quite a bit, reducing my main gripe about follower management.
Carcking, thanks to you too. I've only done I&C and THE TOWER so far, but I think you're right. I'm interested to see those scores too. As such:
REVIEW of the PRINCESS & THE DRAGON expansion
INVASIVENESS: C
-Tiles used in said game: 102, New tiles from expansion: 30
-Number of total followers per player: 7 normal, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 1 (Dragon placement/movement rules, Fairy placement/movement rules, Magic Gates and their rules, Princesses and their rules)
-If you'd never played this expansion before, you might not expect the level of change it introduces. But having a dragon looming nearby changes the way you think about placing tiles. There are two forces at work here (dragons and princesses) that force a follower to be removed from a feature prior to completion, with no points scored in either case. There is an additional MOVING OF THE WOOD action, which has a direct effect on scoring overall. And placement of a MOVE THE DRAGON tile halts other gameplay so the dragon can stomp around, which is also invasive. I'm giving this one a C.
QUALITY: 4
-The new tiles are excellent quality, rule quality and detail is good, and the new meeple types look good. If you are reading from the latest CAR document, there are no noticable gaps, and the rules reflect the latest turn phase breakdown. However, taking off one point here for the balance issues I'll detail below.
FUN-NESS: 2
-THE DRAGON DWINDLES: Anyone whos ever had a dragon visit their countryside can tell you: It changes things. In my experience, the dragon is very important early on in the game, due to the small size of the countryside. However, his overall importance decreases as the play-field gets bigger. He eats a few followers early on. Then, satified, he hangs out around an edge, and stomps around every so often, or flys to another edge. Players can place followers a safe distance from him in these cases, making him just another part of the landscape by end-of-game.
-THE MVP: The fairy, on the other hand, is pivotal throughout the game. The fairy introduces chances for extra points, and her 1point bonus per turn adds up to quite a lot. That combined with a 3point bonus if shes close by when you score something, makes her overpowered, IMHO. Fairy Management becomes very important, to the point that it can be the deciding factor in how players place tiles. Do you get those 4 points for finishing that small city, or do you forego those points to grab the fairy from your opponents? Do you hold off on placing that final tile to complete your cloister because you want that fairy bonus when you do complete it?
-THAT DAMN DAMSEL: The princess is annoying. I'll just say it. The mechanic she introduces is powerful, and feels unbalanced in how easy it is to remove an opponents knight, and how there is no way to see it coming or defend against it. At least there is balance in the dragon placement and movement that gives players a chance to defend against him. Not so here. Like I said, annoying.
-ITS MAGIC: The magic gate tiles are excellent and inventive, but again, very powerful. This mechanic works very well for allowing players to reconnect to incomplete features and feels intuitive.
OVERALL: 3 (4 if youre feeling Lucky)
-In short, this expansion introduces more luck-of-the-draw, and adds fairy management onto your list of important considerations. The ideas are inventive and exciting, and watching a dragon stomp around the game board can be quite fun, but the dragon loses his steam through the game, the fairy can dominate your mind, and the other supporting tiles are awesome if youre the one who draws them. The balance issues and a higher reliance on luck are the reason for my score overall, due to how different this feels from the base game. If you like the fantasy behind these ideas, and also welcome more luck-of-the-draw, try this one. It makes for a very different game for sure.
SHAMELESS PLUG:
-Derek Whaley and I designed a variant of the P&D rules which allows 1 player to play as the Dragon. This variant changes all aspects of dragon placement and movement, and re-purposes many new tiles from the P&D expansion. If you're interested in trying our variant, please the link is below.
LINK: PLAY AS THE DRAGON (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=239)
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(Fan Made) THE ABBOT expansion, by BT
Review is VISUALIZED only.
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 78, New tiles from expansion: 6
-Number of total followers per player: 7 normal, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1 (normal), no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 5 (City, Road, Field, Cloister, Yellow-Cloister), New tiles from expansion: Yellow-Cloister
-Other additions: 2 (Abbott placement/scoring, cloister chain mechanics)
-I'm counting yellow cloisters as a new feature due to their additional rules. Tile placement is unaffected, MOVING OF THE WOOD is barely affected, and the additions to the rules are simple to moderate, but never complex. Overall, very un-invasive changes here. B
QUALITY: 5
-Tile quality is great, rule quality and turn phase breakdown is great, and awesome tuck-boxes, all packaged into one document. Well done and great quality here. There are some gaps and balance issues that I'll address below, but due to the great production here, and the inclusion of tuck-boxes, I'm giving a top score!
FUN-NESS: 3
-The Lonely Abbot: The life of an abbot is a lonely one. He works hard to complete his cloister and never leaves, always waiting for the prospect of neighbors. It can be his great reward, but others can just as easily cut him off from his surroundings, leaving him to languish until end-game. Your opponents have an incentive to complete one of your abbots, because if theyre the ones who place tiles around him, they can effectively trap him where he is, without neighbors. TRAPPING an abbot in this way feels slightly unbalanced, as there is no way to get your abbot back from this situation.
-Chain Reactions: On the flip side, TRAPPING can also be viewed as part of the risk, because the reward for a big cloister chain is quite a lot. This reward feels balanced because your opponents have two courses of action to defend: TRAP your cloister chain, or challenge you for control. This risk/reward system is very fun and plays well, making the creation of a chain very rewarding. Awarding a score of 3 here for a very fun idea that suffers slightly from gaps and the TRAPPING scenario, but adds depth to the cloister system, which I welcome.
-Gaps in the Chain: Can a follower be placed upright on a yellow cloister as a normal monk? This is not detailed in the rules, leading to the assumption that this is NOT allowed. Also, when determining ownership of a cloister chain, are only abbots counted, or are monks counted as well? This is extremely minor, but the rules reference determining majority without noting whether its simply abbot majority or something else.
OVERALL: 4
-I'm biased towards expansions that add depth and detail to roads and cloisters, as these two features are secondary to fields and cities in the Base Game in several ways, IMHO. Great quality on the tiles and tuck-boxes. Very good rule quality. Fun idea implemented well, with good balance for cloister chains, IMHO. Some gaps and slight imbalance from TRAPPING, but overall great work here, especially considering my opinion on cloisters. Highly recommended, especially for cloister fans.
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(Fan Made) THE ABBOT expansion, by BT
I just printed these Abbot tiles a few days ago, will try it out this weekend together with Carcatronn's Zombies! and JPutt's Barbarian Horde.
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Updated the W&MO review to reflect LEVENs updates. Hear that everyone? A great fan expansion just got even better!
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REVIEW of the CULT PLACES/SHRINES tiles, from CULT, SIEGE and CREATIVITY
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 78, New from expansion: 6
-Number of total followers per player: 7, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1, no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 5 (City, Road, Field, Cloister, Shrines), New from expansion: 1 (Shrines)
-Other additions: 2 (Shrine/Cloister placement rules, Shrine/Cloister competition rules)
-1 new feature type here. Most phases are unchanged. Moderate rule changes to deal with Shrine/Cloister placement and Shrine/Cloister competition. Overall rather uninvasive, but restricts tile placement. Category B.
QUALITY: 5
-Overall rule quality is good, and tiles are good quality. No noticeable gaps in the rules if reading from the latest CAR document. Tiles play well and don't introduce noticeable balance issues. Top score.
FUN-NESS: 4
-1) You now have twice as many features that act like cloisters in your draw bag (or tile pile, etc...)
-2) There are minor restrictions to where you can place these features to avoid over-complicated rules
-3) You can compete with others or yourself, to possibly lose the points you would otherwise score.
-Item 1 is a big plus if you like cloisters, which I do. If you didn't like cloisters in the first place, you won't like this. Item 2 is a non-issue if no challenges are ever laid, and can be clunky but is minor overall. Item 3 is inventive and adds some risk/reward to cloister/shrine scoring. The reward in this case is preventing someone else from scoring, rather than scoring more yourself, but still. I appreciate this risk/reward, as it nudges players toward completing their cloisters/shrines sooner, which is usually a smart plan regardless. Overall, fun to play once you adjust to the risk and expect to lose your score for a cloister or two if you're not careful.
OVERALL: 4
-I appreciate how this expansion trains players, in a sense. Finishing cloisters quickly is the best way to get your follower back for other purposes, so this expansion functions well as additional motivation to do that. Tile placement can be slightly clunky, but rules are intuitive and challenges feel exciting. And the challenge rules can be ignored completely if Cloisters and Shrines are spread out. I'd highly recommend this expansion if you like cloisters, and want to see more of them, plus some exciting interaction.
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REVIEW of the SIEGE tiles, from CULT, SIEGE and CREATIVITY
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 76, New from expansion: 4
-Number of total followers per player: 7, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1, no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 3 (updated field scoring, updated city scoring, knight escape)
-No new features and only scoring is affected, with the exception of the possible knight escape. Relatively minor rules for updated scoring. However, due to the weight of the possible scoring changes, category B.
QUALITY: 4
-Rules are detailed with no gaps. Tile quality is good, but field color is a different green than seen elsewhere. Introduces slight balance issues due to the power inherent in the possible scoring changes here.
FUN-NESS: 3
-I like these tiles overall, but I find myself not playing with them as much due to their power. These tiles are great, if youre the one who draws them. You can reduce the scoring value of an opponents city, stop that scoring altogether if the city isnt completed by end-game, and add to the scoring for a field. So balance is dependent on the lucky ones who draw the tiles. This expansion also forces players to focus more on smaller cities by reducing the possibility of successfully completing a big one. There is now a risk that your big city project will never reach its greatness if your opponent draws the right tile. Better to finish that city and soon, to capitalize on points. Ive never used the ESCAPING KNIGHT rules, even after several playtests, so no comment on those. Giving a score of 3 due to the higher focus on luck and the higher risk to creating big cities.
OVERALL: 3
-I think cities are important, and I like building large ones. But I also feel that cities are slightly more important than most other features. For those reasons, I both like and dislike this expansion. Im not a fan of the higher luck involved in the tile draw, but I feel it attempts to introduce some balance to countering large cities of opponents. If you welcome some luck and a focus on smaller cities, youll love this expansion.
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...as I don't expect to come anywhere near reviewing everything. I may need to recruit some other forum members to help get to all the reviews, eventually (CARCKING and WICKE, I'm looking at YOU, :c).
Hey Big Guy, I plan on taking you up on this. Shortly after the Holidays or maybe during the Holidays I will attempt some reviews. Do you have any in mind you'd like me to review? If your list matches with any I've experienced it might be a coordinated effort.
...REVIEW of the ANIMAL FARM expansion by CARCKING
...and for the power inherent in the feoffer token, which I consider as introducing some imbalance...
Example of a specific feoffer situation: The feoffer allows a player to immediately have majority in any field once the player plays a follower legally on it. In cases where one player has 3+ followers in a field, another player can take ownership of a feoffer tile in an unconnected field, connect the fields, and score that field.
Thanks for the very postitive review! I consider it a great compliment!
I did want to make sure you have the game play of the Feoffer right in your mind. When you say; "another player can take ownership of a feoffer tile in an unconnected field, connect the fields, and score that field." (my emphasis), I want to make sure you understand that the farm is not scored immediately. The player with the feoffer owns the farm immediately but it is scored normally - that is either with barn-scoring or end of game scoring. The balance is that there is somewhat of a double edge to the Feoffer. The player must deploy it to an unoccupied farm and invest a farmer to perhaps a farm of very low initial value. Also, he has to be careful about vying for any farms that could be connected because if they become connected he looses the Feoffer. It is somewhat limiting as a player trying to be careful what farms you occupy once you have the Feoffer on the board. I've been there, and if you draw him early on it can be very limiting.
And you're right - he doesn't come up very often, but when he does it creates good game play - with other players first trying to make sure you're not able to join him with their farms, and then also trying to get your farms connected to him.
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Thanks for the interest Carcking :c). I'll PM you with some ideas.
And I see that my wording was confusing for the feoffer example. I knew the field wasn't scored until end-of-game, but my comment on it didn't accurately show that understanding. There is more balance than I had anticipated from your description, so I'll keep an open mind and update if I have the chance to playtest. I'd like to playtest everything I review, but never seem to find the time to actually play much.
I have plans for my next few reviews, but I don't anticipate posting any myself until after the holiday craziness. Hope everyone is having a good holiday and I'll post more reviews as soon as I am able.
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REVIEW of the fan-made THE INVADERS expansion, by Derek Whaley (Whaleyland)
This review is VISUALIZED only.
INVASIVENESS: C
-Tiles used in said game: 84, New from Expansion: 12
-Number of total followers per player: 7, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1, no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 3 (INVADERS placement/movement, INVADERS scoring effects, PILLAGED FIELD scoring effects)
-As its name coincidentally suggests, THE INVADERS is a moderately invasive expansion. One additional moving-of-the-wood choice, and moderate changes to feature scoring. There are 12 new tiles, 1 INVADERS marker and rules to govern him, and two new icons that drive INVADERS functionality and the scoring changes. C for invasiveness due to the power inherent in the INVADERS marker and the moderate changes to scoring.
QUALITY: 4
-Tile quality is very good. The rules for the INVADER marker and the new tile icons are straight-forward and clear. The rules contain no major gaps and use the most recent turn format. There is also good balance in how the INVADER rules work, which I’ll detail below. Minor rule gaps and clarifications are noted below. Taking one point off for the minor rule gaps, but overall very well done.
Pillage Stacking: Does the pillaged field scoring penalty for fields stack if multiple pillaged field icons are in the same field? And same question for the scoring bonus for cloisters/shrines; Does a cloister/shrine receive 3 points for EACH pillaged field icon on a tile adjacent to it?
Road blocks the Pillage: There is one new tile that contains 3 separate fields, with a pillaged field icon pictured in 1 of these fields. Am I correct in understanding that ONLY the field containing the icon is affected by the pillaged field rules? Or does the icon affect all three fields? I understand that these fields may be connected later by other tile placements, so my question only applies if they remain separate.
FUN-NESS: 4
-INVADERS! QUICK, GET THE BROOM: Do you like receiving points for your completed features? If so, you should get used to INVADERS management, or suffer the consequences. There is a LOT of power in that little INVADERS marker, and the risk of scoring NOTHING for a feature makes managing the INVADERS necessary for everyone. Thankfully, there is good balance in HOW the INVADERS are managed. The marker can’t be placed on a feature the turn it is completed, which prevents opponents from blind-siding you too badly. And when completing one of your owned features containing the INVADERS, you can still score for it by sacrificing your moving-of-the-wood action and 3 points on the turn you complete it, which feels fair. The rule choice to have the INVADERS on a specific FEATURE rather than on a specific TILE was a smart one IMHO, as it prevents having multiple scorings affected by the same INVADERS placement.
I FEEL SO PILLAGED: The 4 tiles for pillaging remind me strongly of SIEGE tiles. Both negatively affect ONE feature type in a big way, while positively affecting a different feature type. Not much balance to speak of here. The tiles are good if you’re lucky enough to draw or use them, and because of my personal opinion that fields are overpowered when compared to cloisters, I welcome the way these tiles play.
OVERALL: 4
-I wasnt expecting to like this expansion due to what it does, but I really enjoy how it plays and its balance. This expansion adds risk, and makes INVADER management a requirement to get all your points for a feature. It also potentially takes away a lot more points than it adds. However, it plays very well and has great balance given how invasive the INVADERS are, and I appreciate the way the PILLAGED FIELD affects the scoring of two types of features in different ways. Id recommend this expansion for all, and especially those who embrace the risk of the INVADERS.
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REVIEW of the fan-made THE MARSHES expansion by Trebuchet
This review is VISUALIZED only. This review assumes that all 102 MARSHES tiles are mixed in with the 72 tiles from the BASE GAME. This review also assumes that the wagon from A&M is used, allowing all PARKING PLACE rules to be evaluated.
REVIEW UPDATED ON 12/23. I realized I'd penalized this expansion for balance issues in both the QUALITY and the FUN-NESS sections. QUALITY SCORE has been increased to 3 to account for the overall detail on the majority of the content here.
I've made many assumptions for the purposes of this review. If any of my assumptions are incorrect, please let me know and I'll update my review. Thanks all.
INVASIVENESS: E
-Tiles used in said game: 174, New from Expansion: 102
-Number of total followers per player: 8 (7 normal, 1 wagon)
-Meeple Types: 2 (normal and wagon)
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 5 (City, Road, Field, Marsh, Bridge), New from Expansion: 2 (Marsh, Bridge)
-Feature Types: 5 (City, Road/Bridge, Field, Cloister, Marsh), New from Expansion: 2 (Marsh, Bridge)
-Other additions: 8 (Poacher placement in Marshes, Poacher scoring, Bridge/Road relationship, Parking Place additional moving-of-the-wood actions for wagons/Borrowed Wagons, Parking Place scoring, Bog Tower/Bog Lord Movement rules, Poacher capturing/rescuing, Bog Lord scoring rules, Quicksand rules)
-This is a very invasive expansion, in that it changes the BASE GAME in several major ways. Biggest change is the addition of 2 new side types. The wagon meeple is required for all rules that reference Parking Places, which have complex rules related to ownership and scoring. Two new feature types are included with specific ownership and scoring rules, detailing the Poacher. The Bog Lord also has specific placement, movement and scoring rules, as well as interaction with Poachers. And rules are also included detailing Poacher capturing and Poacher rescue. Overall, changes everywhere, lots of new content and lots of new rules. This earns my first ever E score.
QUALITY: 3
-Tile artwork is very good on each tile, and the new features, sides and icons look good and crisp. Some tiles are misleading based on their artwork and the features pictured (examples below), but are well done overall. Rules suffer from read-ability issues due to the detail and complexity required in the rules for all the additions, as well as many rule gaps and unclear areas (examples below), but are listed in the correct and most updated turn format. The new mechanics are balanced in some way but not in others, which Ill detail below. Overall, high-quality tiles, very detailed rules that suffer from read-ability, and lots of new mechanics that suffer from rule gaps.
1) The tile pictured on page 2 of the rules in the upper-right has four separate field segments, but two of these field segments are so small that they appear to be part of the marsh, IMHO.
2) In cases where several bridges are joined on the same tile, are these bridges considered to be connected? What defines the junctions between bridges and what separates two bridges from each other?
3) When the rules reference moving a wagon from a completed feature to a parking place, the incomplete and unowned road with the parking place must be adjacent to the completed feature, correct? This is in keeping with the wagon rules, just clarifying.
4) A PECK OF PICKLED POACHERS: If I understand correctly, the Poachers score for features bordering the marsh they are in when the features are completed, but remain on the Marsh, correct? And Poachers can only be returned to a player from the Marsh if the player owning the Poacher scores points from a Bog Lord reaching a Bog Tower, or if a Quicksand tile is added to the Marsh containing the Poacher, correct? Can multiple Poachers be returned to the player by the same Bog Lord scoring event, or just one for each Bog Lord scoring event?
5) THE BORED BOARD LORD: Based on the rule wording, the Bog Lord can visit tiles that contain only completed features so long as he DOES NOT end his movement on those tiles, correct? For the purposes of leaving the Bog Lord on an incomplete feature, what defines when Marshes or Fields are considered COMPLETED? Are they complete when they have borders on all sides and are missing no tiles, or does something else define this? Or are they NEVER considered complete? When there is a dice roll for the Bog Lord, lets say the roll is a 5. Is the Bog Lord then REQUIRED to move 5 times, or can the player elect to move him less than 5 times as well? And if the player can choose, can the player elect NOT to move the Bog Lord at all in this case? If so, then it would be possible for a Bog Lord to start a turn on a tile with a Bog Tower, the player triggers a dice rolls for the Bog Lord, and then moves the Bog Lord 0 spaces, leaving him to rest on a tile with a Bog Tower for another scoring chance.
6) FREE PARKING: One right off the bat: When a feature containing a BORROWED wagon is scored, is that wagon returned to its original owners supply? If Im reading the rules correctly, you can do some evil things with Parking Spaces. Heres an example: If I have one of my wagons on a road, and one other normal follower on the same road, an opponent can add a PARKING SPACE onto that road, place one of his followers on top of MY wagon, and now he owns the road and gets triple points when its completed, because his follower standing on my wagon now counts as two of his normal followers on the road for majority, which now trumps my single remaining follower on the road, correct? Is there any defense against this besides trying to now get him with a Quicksand before he completes? And same question here: If my opponent places a PARKING SPACE tile that isnt connected to anything, and my wagon is sitting in my supply, can my opponent now TAKE my wagon, put it on his just placed PARKING SPACE, place a follower on it (who is now worth the same as two normal followers for majority), and get triple points when it is scored? And my only defense is to either challenge his majority or try to Quicksand him?
FUN-NESS: 2
GOOD LUCK CLOSING THAT: With 5 tile sides, as opposed to the 3 standard sides, the number of side combinations possible on a tile increases by more than a factor of 10, from around 21 possible combinations to over 200 I believe. As such, in a game like this with 174 tiles, many tile side combinations will exist only once, and many more will simply not exist in your draw bag. It is highly likely in this situation that the playing field will have gaps that are unclosable or highly unlikely to be closed. This affects several elements of play, most notably the following two: 1) It means there is a much higher chance features will not be completed, which will trap many followers and wagons on the board, and 2) It means any features that require the completion of neighboring features will have more risk and less reward (fields, poachers in marshes).
THE BORED BOARD LORD: This Bog Lord has a sad lot in life. He trudges around in a bog, searching for Poachers and Bog Towers. When a Bog Lord moves, he forces any Poachers on tiles he visits to be captured. And he only moves when a new Bog Tower appears or when a feature he rests on is extended or completed. He allows players to net lots of points just for getting him to the right tile, and he can be either good or bad depending on whether you want nearby Poachers removed from their Marshes. I like the ideas behind him, but play is very lopsided, with luck being the largest factor in determining who gets the correct dice roll to move him to the right place.
PETER PIPER PLAYED A POACHER: A poacher waits. He waits for features to be completed so he can grab some points. He waits for quicksand to force him away. He waits for a Bog Lord to allow him to return home. And if hes not alone in the Marsh, he may be waiting needlessly. Every time a feature bordering a Marsh is scored, majority must be determined in the Marsh, and the owner of majority receives the appropriate points. Marshes and Poachers are SIMILAR to Farmers in Fields, but different in a refreshing way. And there is some balance in how majority can be challenged in the Marsh. But determining majority whenever any bordering feature is scored feels cumbersome, and the mechanics to remove a Poacher from the Marsh feel clunky, at least on visualization. If your opponents out manage you for the Bog Lord, and you dont get any Quicksand tiles, your Poachers are stuck and out of luck.
YOU CANT PARK HERE!: The idea behind Parking Places is dynamic and fun, but at the same time it makes me frustrated with the wagon. I feel scared now. I feel scared if I leave my wagon in my supply, someone else will BORROW it right out from under me. If I place it by itself on a road, I feel scared my opponent will again BORROW it, effectively stealing my road. I feel inclined to play my wagon on a city segment, and leave it there, just so its out of harms way.
QUICKSAND!: This feature attempts to balance out the powerful 3-points-per-road-tile scenario, and also affects Marshes in a way that can be useful both for you or for opponents. I like this tile in the context of the expansion, as I feel something like this is needed, but its a very tall price to pay if your 30+ point road suddenly goes away completely.
OVERALL: 2
Its not my favorite expansion. It changes things drastically in comparison to the BASE GAME, which forces me to be very critical of what it adds. I think it does some very brave things, and I appreciate how much it does, and how much detail was needed from a tile and from a rule standpoint. However, it doesnt feel balanced overall, the 2 additional side types basically guarantee a play area full of holes, the rules are confusing due to how much they attempt to do, and the rule gaps add to that confusion. At its core, this expansion introduces a new feature that I tend to like, Bog Lord and Poacher rules and interaction that Im not as crazy about, and adds a whole lot of depth to roads that I very much appreciate when Im not busy being scared about my wagon. If you want to see roads gone crazy, you can embrace the luck-o-the-Bog-Lord, and want to see a completely new take on the wagon, give this one a try.
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REVIEW of the fan-made THE MISSIONARY expansion by Chris Korfmann
This review is VISUALIZED only. Specific tiles have been added from other expansions in order to review the mechanics for Cathedrals, Shrines/Heretics, and Abbeys as they relate to this expansion. This review deals with this expansion only. Please see previous reviews for specific notes on Cathedral mechanics or Shrine mechanics.
INVASIVENESS: C
-Tiles used in said game: 80, (72 BASE GAME + 6 Shrines + 2 Cathedrals) New from this Expansion: 0
-Number of total followers per player: 7, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1, no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 5 (City, Road, Field, Cloister, Shrine), no change from base game
-Other additions: 6 (Missionary placement/colored disks, Missionary scoring, Converting, Updated Cloister/Shrine challenge rules, Abbey rules added from A&M expansion, Cathedral rules added from I&C expansion)
-The largest change here is conversion, the ability to remove the follower of an opponent from the board and replace it with your own. One new MOVING OF THE WOOD choice, and moderate changes to scoring. No new tiles required, which is a bonus. Overall a moderately invasive expansion: C rating.
QUALITY: 4
-Rules are detailed and have excellent turn examples, which illustrate the new mechanics very well. The rules are in the most recent turn format, which assist with read-ability. Minor rule clarifications listed below. Notes on balance are detailed below as well.
-If a city containing the Missionary is completed, the player controlling the Missionary then has a chance to convert up to three followers (up to one per opponent) in the city at that time, regardless of who controls majority at the moment the city is completed, correct?
-If a cloister/shrine/abbey is completed which contains the Missionary, the controlling player DOES NOT receive 5 bonus points if there are any followers on surrounding tiles eligible to be converted, correct? This would be important in cases where followers ARE eligible, but the controlling player fails to convert any because that players supply is currently empty.
-When converting using an Abbey, it is technically possible to convert two followers of the same opponent correct? I would assume so because it is not explicitly limited in the rules, whereas the Cathedral rules specifically limit conversion to one follower per opponent.
FUN-NESS: 3
-CONVERTING FEET TO MEEPLES: Its fun to try converting your opponents, plain and simple. Luck determines who draws more cloisters/shrines, but the available Abbey in each players supply guarantees at least 1 strategic chance for each player to use the Missionary, which assists with balance. There is no defense against being converted other than completing your feature first. This is minor, but feels unbalanced in two instances: 1) The board is such that the same tile that completes your nearby feature also completes your opponents Missionary (which means he gets the chance to convert you before any scoring) and 2) A player places a Missionary and scores the Missionarys feature on the same turn, giving opponents literally no chance to defend. Even so, these two instances are minor and not common. Converting can result in LARGE point swings, but plays intuitively and has enough balance that it feels exciting rather than cumbersome.
-ABBEY ROAD: Being able to convert 2 followers with the Abbey (rather than 1 with the cloister/shrine) also assists with balance, IMHO. It works well, and doesnt feel overpowered since each player has a chance to use it if they manage things right.
-EVIL CATHEDRAL: The Cathedral Missionary rules, by comparison, feel unbalanced and dont play as intuitively. For starters, the wording choice used in the rules to classify the Missionary as NOT A KNIGHT feels like an excuse to allow the Missionary to be inserted into cities that already have owners. The Cathedral was a very powerful tile to begin with, and I complained about its inherent balance issues and reliance on luck in my I&C review. I dont welcome this addition of power to something thats already got too much power as it is. It clashes with the rest of the rules, IMHO.
-CONVERSION CHALLENGE: Lets close this section on a good note. A Cloister/Shrine challenge involving the Missionary is perhaps my favorite element of the expansion. This energizes the challenge system in a way I find refreshing, and allows one player to score for not just his feature, but the challenged feature as well. Ive seen this referred to in official variant rules others have written for the Shrine/Heretic expansion, so its great to see it officially incorporated here.
OVERALL: 4
-This expansion is fun and exciting. It adds a lot to cloister play, and energizes the Shrine/Cloister challenge. It feels balanced for the most part, especially given the Abbey tile, and plays well for anyone like me who enjoys seeing more development to cloister gameplay. I cant stand the Cathedral rules, which is why the FUN score suffered, but I wasnt crazy about Cathedrals in the first place. Id highly recommend giving this expansion a try. And if you share my opinions, give it a try without any Cathedral tiles (and add 1 point to the FUN SCORE).
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After a long, long break, here's another review :c).
REVIEW of the fan-made BREWERIES expansion, by Meepleater
This review is VISUALIZED only.
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 84, New from Expansion: 12
-Number of total followers per player: 7, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1, no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 2 (BREWERY placement/scoring adjustments, HERETICAL MARKERS placement/scoring adjustments)
-Breweries is a minimally invasive expansion. All of its changes relate to cloisters. It adds one additional 'Moving-of-the-Wood' option if a HERETICAL MARKER tile is drawn, and it changes scoring for cloisters depending on their proximity to BREWERIES, and whether those cloisters are HERETICAL. Overall, rating this one a B for invasiveness.
QUALITY: 5
-Tile quality is very good. Opening story functions well to introduce the idea of monks brewing their own ale into the land of Carcassonne. Rules are simple, clear and in the correct turn format, with no rule gaps found. The only complexity here is in the adjustments to scoring of cloisters, and the picture examples given in the rules make that complexity very easy to understand. TOP SCORE!
FUN-NESS: 5
-LET'S DRINK!: It's fun to drink, lets be honest. And it's fun to get more points while you're at it. The idea of breweries in Carcassonne is fun AND makes historical sense. While scoring your cloister involves a little more work than usual, it's well worth it for those extra points. Breweries can potentially add a whopping 12 extra points to orthogonally adjacent cloisters, and up to 8 extra points to diagonally adjacent cloisters. Breweries outnumber cloisters 8 to 7 in the sample game described, so the chances of getting at least some bonus from breweries is high. There is balance in placing breweries as anyone can potentially use or receive bonuses from them. So drink up, I say!
-HELP OTHERS STAY SOBER: The addition of the heretical markers assists with balance as well. Use of the tokens is presented as another 'Moving-of-the-Wood' option when the right tile is drawn. So the tokens can be utilized to force your opponents to abstain from alcohol. They can also be ignored in favor of a better 'Moving-of-the-Wood' action. So help your opponents stay sober. They'll resent you later for it.
OVERALL: 5
-I think this expansion is a blast. I like the idea, I like the historical relevance, I like the simplicity, I like forcing my opponents to stay sober, and I find no rule gaps or unclear areas to hinder any of that. As many of you know, I tend to like expansions that expand upon cloisters and their gameplay. If you don't like cloisters, you may find this expansion forgettable. But I really enjoy it. So DRINK UP, I SAY!
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Hello Big Guy, your reviews are as always very nice, felt the lack of them.
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Hello Big Guy, your reviews are as always very nice, felt the lack of them.
Thanks for the welcome back Quevy. And congrats on the bump up to being a Moderator. I missed being on site. It's nice to post again.
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Hi Big Guy. Nice to see you back on the forums. Hope things are going well with your "little one".
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Hi Big Guy. Nice to see you back on the forums. Hope things are going well with your "little one".
Hey Big Guy AND BT - nice to see you guys back after a little break. You've been missed!
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Thanks Carcking, that is very kind of you.
I have been lurking around the forum but I haven't been posting a lot. I have only recently gotten a copy of South Seas in the last two weeks and Sheep and Hills is on the way, so I haven't been able to really get involved in the discussion about them yet.
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This review is also featured in DanisThirtys excellent newsletter, HERE (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1015)
REVIEW of the fan-made FARMER IN THE DELL expansion, by Carcking and Others
This review is VISUALIZED only.
INVASIVENESS: B
-Tiles used in said game: 96, New from Expansion: 24
-Number of total followers per player: 7, no change from base game
-Meeple Types: 1, no change from base game
-Tile Shapes: 1 (square), no change from base game
-Tile Side types: 3 (City, Road, Field), no change from base game
-Feature Types: 4 (City, Road, Field, Cloister), no change from base game
-Other additions: 4 (Bluffs, Corner House, Farmer scoring updates, ‘FARM-IN-THE-DELL’ Field Completion rules)
-Overall, the additions and changes here are minor. No new features, meeple types, or move-of-the-wood options. Bluffs and Corner Houses require almost no rule additions and play intuitively. Farmer scoring updates require moderate rule changes. Rules for Field Completion prior to end-game are minor. Overall, this gets a B!
QUALITY: 5
-Tile quality is very good, and the bluffs and corner houses not only look great, but add a lot of depth to field design. The opening and graphics look crisp. Rules are clear and in the correct turn format, with no rule gaps found. Moderately complex rules for farmer scoring are handled well here. There is no turn example for scoring Farmer(s) in the Dell, but due to the detail in the description, I’m still awarding a top score here.
FUN-NESS: 4
-I’M A FARMER, GIMME POINTS!: The biggest change here is in scoring for farmers, and being able to get your farmers back before end-of-game. This feels dynamic and fun, but at the same time potentially unbalances the game by making fields more important than other features. You can now score 1 point for each completed city bordering an incomplete (or just completed) farm on which you place a farmer (provided the farmer is not removed from the field that same turn, and provided you are at least tied for majority). You can also score 3 points per completed city when that farm is completed, meaning you can potentially score 4 points per completed city. Fields were important before, when they only awarded 3 points per city, and when they required a commitment of at least one follower for the rest of the game. Now, fields are more important still, with less risk. The only risk is getting trapped on an incomplete field at end-game, and receiving only 1 point per completed city because of it. Field play definitely feels more fun and exciting now, and there is balance here, as others can still challenge you for control of your farm, and place tiles to hinder your field completion. But even so, there are some hefty points to be had as a farmer now, hence the possible balance issues.
-CHOICES, CHOICES: Farmers can now make choices about when their workdays end. They must have unionized. From the moment you complete a field, until the final city bordering that field is completed, you get to evaluate your situation as a farmer in that field and decide whether to collect points each time a tile is placed that completes the field or a city bordering it. It adds strategy and depth to field play in a very refreshing way. Bluffs and corner houses make closing your farm that much easier, and decrease your chances of getting stuck on an incomplete farm, both good things here.
OVERALL: 4
-I think this expansion energizes field play in a very refreshing way, and the addition of bluffs and corner houses is welcome and adds to the excitement of fields. There is more depth, more strategy, and more fun to placing a farmer now. This makes farms much more attractive as a feature to focus on, which introduces some balance issues for the other features, IMHO. But even so, its fun, its inventive and its definitely an expansion you should try. And if fields were your favorite feature before, add a point to the OVERALL score and try this expansion RIGHT NOW!
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I really think Big Guy has done a great job with his work on Rating System for Reviews. He gave the base game a rating of A-5-5-5 which I agree with, but it set me thinking about what the components of the game are that make it work so well. I put together a list of Core Features of the game that I use to guide me when I am thinking about doing one of my own variants. I use it to try and keep myself on track. I also name and shame the expansions that I feel don't work so well.
Carcassonne Core features
Straightforward game play - place tile – claim structure on tile by placing a follower - complete structure – score points What to avoid in fan made stuff - Three person chess as featured in the Big Bang Theory - in fact avoid anything and everything Sheldon might do. Just wondering if Sheldon was a consultant on the Robbers mini expansion.
Even paced game play - makes for a relaxing evening without too many game driven interruptions to the flow – bazaars would be an exception here, the auction component breaks the rhythm.
High quality artwork - simple yet attractive tiles with a consistent theme that are, for the most part, very easy to understand – makes building the cities enjoyable – personally for me the art work on the goldmines is an exception – and, for me, falls down on two points, the gold bar icons just don't look right plus gold bars come from gold refineries not gold mines.
Supports both competitive and cooperative play, a major plus for me in this game - using the the exact same tiles, game play is completely adaptable to the mood of the players – most but not all official expansions support this. Interesting that the Tower, which does not support cooperative play, is featured in the variant downloads with versions that reduce or eliminate the competitive prisoner taking aspects.
Additional special followers have a clearly defined role, big follower and mayor are fairly straightforward to use, the builder, and wagon require a little more effort to grasp but work well. So far I have not met a follower I did not like though I do sometimes have a problem differentiating the big follower and the mayor.
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Well put Gerry...and insightful. You're right about the Bazaars. The other one that breaks the flow is the Catapult.
Carcassonne is in a unique category in that it can be played very casually and co-op(ish), but can also be played very competitively and cut-throat. It can appeal to a broad spectrum of players.
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One thing I forgot
Appropriate scoring - there have to be just enough points to reward the effort but not too many that it swamps the other game rewards. Very tricky to achieve and probably the most dependant on actual game play testing. You tend to get very honest feedback when a player has put in a lot of effort and only scores a couple of points and even more feedback from the other players when someone scores a huge amount for little effort. The trade good tokens seem to give too little reward (though they do look nice) and, as I just said today in another post, the Abbot on the monasteries looks as though it can sometimes give too much.