Repurposing The Catapult for Carcassonne 2

[jungleboy]

Udo suggested that The catapult would not be seeing the light of day again. I hope the tiles do though, the tiles from this expansions are quite important, like the 3 way road for example. Let's hope they think of something new.

I know there are a lot of catapult variants already out there, but how about this idea that I thought about this morning for a simple re-release of the catapult in the new artwork:

The tiles stay the same. None of the other physical features (the catapult, ruler, tokens etc) are part of the new version. Instead, a small catapult figure is included.

When you draw a catapult tile, you must move the catapult to that tile, and then you have the opportunity of using the catapult to try to strike followers off the board. This works in the same way as the Flier, only instead of trying to land your own followers on certain tiles, you are trying to remove followers from certain tiles. You choose the direction you want the catapult to fire in, and roll the Flier dice (which could also be included in the new Catapult). If your roll causes the catapult to land on a tile with a meeple, that meeple is hit and you must remove that meeple from the board.

On subsequent turns, players can choose to use the same launching tile for a catapult move (changing the direction if they like) instead of placing their own follower. As soon as a new catapult tile is drawn, the catapult moves to that tile.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2144.0

[Whaleyland]

jungleboy, that is a surprisingly logical and thematic take on The Catapult. I love it! I feel like with just those mechanics, though, it would be a bit small of an expansion—certainly not full-box worthy. I wonder what else could be done to improve it. A new meeple type (the Jester)? Some other rules relating to the Fairgrounds? Still, I like the direction this would take The Catapult. Merit to you.

[Rosco]

How about a meeple from the travelling fairground that can claim an unclaimed feature from an adjacent tile. 

[Whaleyland]

How about a meeple from the travelling fairground that can claim an unclaimed feature from an adjacent tile.

Good idea! How about the ability to EITHER claim an unclaimed feature adjacent to the Fairground OR switch a Follower on an adjacent tile with one of your own. But only the Jester meeple can be used for the latter.

[Whaleyland]

I split this topic because I think we have something here and I think jungleboy made a good point that Hans im Glück is likely to just drop this expansion entirely in its new Carcassonne 2 line unless we act now. I think the expansion needs to undergo a major revision for it to be plausible—in effect turning it into an entirely different expansion—but some of the tiles are excellent and the expansion itself is still based on a fun concept, even if the implementation was awful.

First off, I think one of the ways to boost this expansion to the same piece-count as other expansions would be to include Crop Circles I in the box. This is currently the most difficult to find HiG expansion and it deserves a reprint. By adding it to The Catapult, it would become an 18-tile expansion, on par with Hills & Sheep.

The next thing to do is to add wooden bits. The easiest option is to add 6 new meeples—Jesters—and a large wooden piece akin to The Dragon that will visually represent The Catapult. A replica of the Flier die will also be included for some of the Jester mechanics.

Finally, there should be 60 target chits like those used in The Catapult (albeit in player colours).

In total, this would make it an expansion with 18 tiles, 6 meeples, 1 die, 1 Catapult, and 60 chits, perfectly en par with other expansions such as Abbey & Mayor or Hills & Sheep.

Next, the rules. Obviously Crop Circles I would remain unchanged. The other 12 tiles, though, would continue to represent a Fairground (or an equivalent). What will change is what happens when a Fairgrounds tile is pulled. Based on Decar's idea, I propose the following:

When a Fairground is pulled, it is placed as normally. The Catapult is then moved to this newly-placed tile. After this, the player may claim a feature on the tile and then must launch the Catapult!

Each player places their tokens in a three-tile radius around the Catapult (in a 2-player game, each player places three tokens; in a 3-player game, each places two) . Each player then, beginning with the player to the left of the current player, orients the Catapult in any direction (orthogonally or diagonally) and rolls the die. If the die roll hits a token, that player takes the token and adds it to their collection. If the player hits a tile with a Follower, the player can a) remove the follower and return it to its owner, b) replace the Follower with their Jester (which henceforth acts as a normal follower until returned), or c) do nothing. Any un-hit targets remain on the board for future rounds.

During final scoring, players score 2 points per other player's target in their possession, and 4 points for targets of their own colour.

Any thoughts of this? I really want The Catapult to get re-released with Carcassonne 2 but I know it won't get released in its current form. Let's help HiG re-release this little treat with new life to it! I do feel that the Fairgrounds/Jesters may need to be converted into something more like Siege Camps and Dukes, though.

[kettlefish]

Hi whaleyland,
nice idea with the catapult.
Should we send an email to HiG with a link to this topic?

[Whaleyland]

Hi whaleyland,
nice idea with the catapult.
Should we send an email to HiG with a link to this topic?

I'd be happy with that, although I'd say wait 24 hours before sending the email just so a few other people can chime in with comments/concerns/additional ideas. I admit it's kind of crazy nobody thought up of something similar until jungleboy's comment. I definitely don't want to see these expansions lost, though.

[Halfling]

I have a work in progress expansion called the court jester in which meeples are switched when a tile with the jester logo is drawn. The exchange is farmer for farmer or knight for a knight etc. Either the use of a die to determine the type of meeple to be exchanged or the choice of the active player. Meeples exchanged must be of different colours. This latter decision is in need of play testing.

Always fun coming up with these variants, especially as there are not enough expansions already!

[Decar]

My only concern is that it might be hard to get your meeple back if they are stolen - but I assume you'd introduce an exchange rule like the tower.

Edit: I wonder if you should be able to put the catapult on ANY festival tile when one is drawn.

[Whaleyland]

My only concern is that it might be hard to get your meeple back if they are stolen - but I assume you'd introduce an exchange rule like the tower.

Edit: I wonder if you should be able to put the catapult on ANY festival tile when one is drawn.

No stealing, just "Knocking-Out". It returns to the original owner immediately. Good idea about using any Fairground though.

Okay, we just did a play-through, 2-player, and I have to say this idea is AWESOME. A bit aggressive, but still fun. We played with 3 target tiles for the first three, but dropped down to only 1 for the final 9 Fairgrounds. I think a balance in a 2-3 player game is to use 2 targets per player per Fairground. That way you get a good number on the board but it's not overwhelming. Also, we learned quickly to keep our Followers spread out. Whenever we had a clump, it became REALLY easy to knock one out or swap it with the Jester (I stole three features from my opponent that way, although she took one back almost immediately). We didn't include the Crop Circles in this first attempt but I can actually see where they can fit in real easily. They can help force the opponent to abandon features (as per usual), but they can also help reinforce features that are under threat, such as those in clumps. That way, even if the opponent swaps out one of the Followers, there's still a second one there.

Oh, one other thing: when a Fairground is drawn and players are placing targets on the tiles, the targets should be able to go anywhere on the board. It makes everything more strategic. That way, players can plan ahead for future Fairgrounds rather than rely on the one just placed. This is where Decar's idea may especially prove helpful. If the player who placed the Fairground can decide where the Catapult goes, that can make target placement especially strategic.

One last thing: opponent's captured Target chits should be worth 1 point, and your own chits worth 2 points. We played with 2 points/4 points and it was just too much. They should be worth something, but when there are 40-60 target chits floating around, they really don't have to be worth too much.

We'll have to try this variant again and I definitely recommend the HiG people check it out. It was a hoot yet still felt strangely like the Catapult, just replace random flipping with strategic planning.

[Decar]

ah sorry I went and re-read it. 

You aim at tokens and score points for the tokens.  But you can also hit meeple to a) remove b) jester c) do nothing.

It sounds promising!

[Whaleyland]

You aim at tokens and score points for the tokens.  But you can also hit meeple to a) remove b) jester c) do nothing.

Correct on both accounts.

I should add that if you "hit" a space that both has Followers and chits on it, you can choose which Follower to interact with and you get all the chits on the space regardless of the choice. (Although perhaps it would be better to limit the number of chits on a tile to one.)

[jungleboy]

I look away for a few hours and this is what happens to my idea?   

I want half the royalties. 

[Whaleyland]

I want half the royalties. 

Me too! Somehow I doubt either of us will get any royalties and, frankly, I don't really care. If this gets The Catapult re-released in a more playable form, I am all game.

[Decar]

No royalties but there is a court notice for breach of copyright laws..... I'll put your names on it