Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: Ratz65 on October 19, 2016, 12:00:43 AM
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I'm glad you like it However, some things need to be clarified:
Does the tower divide the streets?
Does the tower divide the fields?
After looking more closely at the new extension, I think that the tower will divide the fields and also the roads. What do you all mean?
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Hi Ratz65!
Dan and I played and it seemed logical to split the farms and the roads (with junctions).
We also played that the tower scored when either connecting feature was completed. Otherwise the frfr tile makes no sense. This means towers can score more than once. Usually twice.
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Just noticed an apparent typo in the English rules. "Shuffle the six new land tiles..." should be twelve tiles, no?
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We also played that the tower scored when either connecting feature was completed. Otherwise the frfr tile makes no sense. This means towers can score more than once. Usually twice.
Interesting, that's not the way I read the rule. It seems to me that the watchtower should only trigger when you complete the feature that the meeple is actually standing on, according to the rule:
When a completed road or city contains a meeple on a watchtower
My understanding of "on a watchtower" is that they are on the same tile as a watchtower, either in a city or on a road, and only when the feature that they are contained in is complete do they score the watchtower bonus (before being scored and removed for the city or road feature).
i.e. In the image below, I think that the blue meeple only scores the watchtower bonus when the city on the right (that he is standing in) is completed and not when the road or the city at the top is completed:
(https://s21.postimg.cc/v40sk6dif/image.png)
Otherwise the frfr tile makes no sense.
I don't understand why there would be a problem for the frfr tile?
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It's difficult to make sense of rules which state "You may not place the meeple on the watchtower itself" in section 2 and then "When a completed road or city contains a meeple on a watchtower..." immediately after.
Decar's interpretation of the rules seem to make more sense to me having played a game using this expansion.
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I was originally referring to what it means when a feature with a watchtower is completed.
Your image contains 2 cities and a road all connecting to the watchtower.
I think this watchtower can score 3 times, when each of these features is completed: the two cities and the road; assuming there is a meeple in said feature.
If not, you'll need to keep track of when watchtowers have or haven't been invoked.
I wouldn't worry too much there won't be any official rules published anyway.
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It's difficult to make sense of rules which state "You may not place the meeple on the watchtower itself" in section 2 and then "When a completed road or city contains a meeple on a watchtower..." immediately after.
Decar's interpretation of the rules seem to make more sense to me having played a game using this expansion.
I expect that the intention of the rule is that "a meeple on a watchtower" means "a meeple on a watchtower tile", so the blue meeple counts in my version. Then when that meeple's feature completes, that meeple (and only that meeple, no other meeples in the feature) can score the bonus points for the watchtower.
I think that makes everything straightforward, with no need to track which watchtowers have scored and no possibility of scoring a watchtower twice (unless, of course, there are multiple meeples on a watchtower tile by means of some other expansion mechanic).
The rules could have benefitted a lot from an extra example or two!
Maybe some of our German speakers can help shed some light on things, in case there are translation issues?
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I don't know. The example shows a meeple on the placed watchtower tile.
But the rules don't say in the section scoring if it is needed that a meeple has to be placed on the watchtower tile if a road/city which are finished and the watchtower tile is part of that feature...
????
I think the the score for the watchtower take only place if a meeple is on that tile - but it is also possible that it is only important that the watchtower tile is a part of a finished city/road and the meeple doesn't stand on the watchtower tile itself.... - If this is the right way to play then the score for the watchtower is more than once.
???
Perhaps you can choose what you like to play.
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Thanks both :)
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Wow these are some open ended rules. I would think the bonus is only for the meeple on the tile. Imagine placing the tile in Dan's post and having it complete 2 of your cities at once. If the bonus only affected the meeple on the tile, it may force the player to start a new city instead of completing one of their already controlled cities.
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...and don't forget the Wagon... ;)
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Maybe a ridiculous question: where can I see the English rules for this expansion guys? Can't seem to locate any translation
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Maybe a ridiculous question: where can I see the English rules for this expansion guys? Can't seem to locate any translation
Decar posted them here (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2927.msg43650#msg43650).
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Maybe a ridiculous question: where can I see the English rules for this expansion guys? Can't seem to locate any translation
Decar posted them here (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2927.msg43650#msg43650).
Ah, thanks.
I think the intent of the rules are clear enough (though are indeed open to some interpretation of people want to argue)
1. When placing a watch tower tile, to gain the scoring of the watch tower you must place a meeple on a road or city.
2. When a city or road connected to the watchtower is completed, if a meeple is on that feature and on the watchtower tile, then watchtower scoring happens, followed by scoring of that feature.
Therefore, each watchtower only scores once, and always by the person who placed the tile.
I think they can easily be cut off by opponents (e.g. next opponent finishes the road I started that is on the watchtower tile, and halts any plans), so aren't open to much abuse unless opponents completely ignore what you're doing.
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I agree with the implied intent to score each watchtower once for the player who picked the tile and placed a meeple on it.
The first game I played was skewed in my favour as I drew 8 of the 12 tiles. Nice until I ran out of meeples. :o
An idea to equalise the distribution is to allocate one or two tiles each by blind draw a la Halflings and then either ditch the rest or place the rest in the bag.
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In the german rules there is:
Wenn die Straße oder die Stadt eines Meeple auf einem Wachturm Plättchen abgeschlossen wir, wertest du zuerst den Wachturm und dann die abgeschlossene Straße oder Stadt.
Translation: If the street or the city of a Meeple on a watchtower tile is completed you at first score the watchtower and then (score) the completed street or city.
I think this gives a clear answer:
If a street or a city is completed
and a part of it is on the watchtower tile
and there is a meeple on this part
then the player of this meeple scores the watchtower extra points.
If there are more meeple on features on the watchtower tile there will be more watchtower scorings.
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I think that at the end of the game a meeple standing on a watchtower tile keep no point from it...
anyway... Kettlefish, there is no a clarification call with Hig this year?
...and I was thinking: maybe the points for monastery can be also from cathedrals, temples ecc...
bye! :)
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It was made very clear in the rules:
Of course you can combine 'Watchtowers' with other expansions, too, but this happens "at your own risk". There sill be no official rules published by us.
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I think that at the end of the game a meeple standing on a watchtower tile keep no point from it...
anyway... Kettlefish, there is no a clarification call with Hig this year?
No, I haven't ask HiG about the clarification of rules. We've talked a bit about the new wagon rule in the CC II New Edition - 5th Expansions. That was all.
Since obervet didn't like to update the CAR anymore and I didn't get any new questions from him what is still open - I decided not to ask HiG about the clarifications of rules. For the new edition I don't have any clarifications.
...and I was thinking: maybe the points for monastery can be also from cathedrals, temples ecc...
bye! :)
There are no answers from HiG - I will not ask them because in the rules HiG explain that it would be your own risk to play with expansions...
So the best way ist play test games and then tell us your feelings if the expansion should work with the Watchtowers or not.
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Since obervet didn't like to update the CAR anymore and I didn't get any new questions from him what is still open - I decided not to ask HiG about the clarifications of rules. For the new edition I don't have any clarifications.
we are losing an in important thing... I hope obervet will change his mind or meybe he will give the project to someone else...
I can't, I just do the italian one and I can't write in a correct english... :(
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Just gave this expansion a first try and I can tell you that these rules are utter ! So not clear. No end game rules and the examples are unclear whether a follower is on the tower itself or the feature beside the tower. We tried a 2-player game with the followers ON the towers, and I can tell you that you run out of meeples real fast. We decided that the tiles still score at game end, but the fact this isn't clarified is really annoying. Despite this being a "New Art" expansion, I do hope kettlefish changes her mind about FAQs for this. I don't like playing expansions without knowing how to properly play an expansion.
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I still don't have this mini expansion. I am not happy about the graphics and the rules are awful.
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we've played it several times, and i also think its rubbish. Besides the wrong number in the english rules (says 6 instead of 12).
Its very unclear, as to what happens if you place it to extend or finish a project you're already on, do you get the watchtower bonus or not?
So we kinda decided that:
When you play the tile, you have to claim something on it (not the tower itself, as it states in the rules you can't i think)
When you finish that project you count the points and get the bonus
It can't be used again (otherwise you have to keep track of what has been used and what not)
No end of game bonus
The english rules state you can put a meeple on the tile as a farmer, but they don't trigger scoring, and meeples are not on the tower itself, but on the city,road or farm. And it says that if a completed road or city has a meeple on a watchtower (i asume watchtowertile) you trigger watchtower bonus, so thats why we agreed on that you have to claim something on the tile when you lay it, and that is the only thing that can get the bonus. If you use it to complete a city/road you're already in, you can't get the bonus, because you don't have a meeple on the watchtower tile (cus you cant when your already in the city/road).
Its not the best of expansions, and just gives more questions.
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Sounds good. Thank you Willem88. Perhaps the images are showing the meeples on both a feature and the Watchtower? Hmm. Either way, your logic makes sense. I imagine that if you play with fliers (or Phantom or Magic Portals), then you could claim a Watchtower again or another play could concurrently claim one, but the points would only go to them when they complete their feature. At least that is how I understand it now, based on your interpretation. I guess no end-game bonus makes sense since you will still score the rest of the feature like normal.
I still don't have this mini expansion. I am not happy about the graphics and the rules are awful.
I can't agree with you more – the rules are terribly written and since this is an official Hans im Glück expansion, it does not bode well that they don't even bother to explain these rules when using other expansions. It really would not have taken more than a folded rules sheet rather than a half-sheet to expand the rules a bit and give some expansion interaction content. What a ! preview of the future of Carcassonne promo expansions.
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In the german rules there is:
Wenn die Straße oder die Stadt eines Meeple auf einem Wachturm Plättchen abgeschlossen wir, wertest du zuerst den Wachturm und dann die abgeschlossene Straße oder Stadt.
Translation: If the street or the city of a Meeple on a watchtower tile is completed you at first score the watchtower and then (score) the completed street or city.
I think this gives a clear answer:
If a street or a city is completed
and a part of it is on the watchtower tile
and there is a meeple on this part
then the player of this meeple scores the watchtower extra points.
If there are more meeple on features on the watchtower tile there will be more watchtower scorings.
ok for the question at the end of the game that remains open, but I don't understand what is the problem with the rules... I think here Fritz_Spinne made a perfect summary
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Sounds good, aenima. I agree with Fritz-Spinne's summary and it seems pretty straight-forward. But the actual official rules are still ! and leave too many vagaries due to poor translating and lack of testing. In German they may read better, but kettlefish's comments suggest otherwise.
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There is no rule what happens with following situation:
Does the knight (at the citiy segment of the watchtower tile) gets the watchtower points if this knight has not the majority in that city? What happens with the other knight in that city - do they get the points for the city?
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There is no rule what happens with following situation:
Does the knight (at the citiy segment of the watchtower tile) gets the watchtower points if this knight has not the majority in that city? What happens with the other knight in that city - do they get the points for the city?
I think he takes the points because watchtower points are one thing and the City points are another thing...
Well... I know, "I think" is not enough...
Kettle... I know you don't ask HIG clarifications because obervert doesn't want to update the CAR...
I know also that most of the "old" carcassonne funs don't like the New edition ecc.. ecc...
But the truth is that the New edition is the actual reality and that, in addition to the small part of the "old" funs (like me) that will continue to follow and buy New stufs, there is and there will be the "joung" that love it (because, I'm sure about that, It's just a matter of habit regard new colours...) that will follow and will buy new stufs...
So... I'm asking you and to all to continue this job.
I know there will be not another CAR, but, maybe, it's only an idea, we can use this forum... maybe we can create in the rules section new subparagraphs with the names of the new expansions and update the rules clarifications there...
Also... I need it because of the italian RCA ;D
Seriously... we need it
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That is not the reason:
The watchtower rules state:
They wont clarify and you use the watchtower expansion at your own risk.
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That is not the reason:
The watchtower rules state:
They wont clarify and you use the watchtower expansion at your own risk.
To be fair, the current rules issues are only specific to the expansion itself, not its interactions with other expansions, so I feel aenima has a point. This is an issue that deserves clarification. I think based on precedents, we can figure out most rules conflicts or create a house-rule guide that is not entirely unofficial.
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That is not the reason:
The watchtower rules state:
They wont clarify and you use the watchtower expansion at your own risk.
To be fair, the current rules issues are only specific to the expansion itself, not its interactions with other expansions, so I feel aenima has a point. This is an issue that deserves clarification. I think based on precedents, we can figure out most rules conflicts or create a house-rule guide that is not entirely unofficial.
I agree that we could (and probably will) do that. But I also think it's very irresponsible of the publisher to release an expansion and basically say, 'We couldn't be bothered figuring out how this works with other expansions so we'll just transfer the risk to you instead.'
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For this expansion - I have no one at HiG who likes to give me any answers. This expansion is from CundCo.
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There have been more expansions that have a statement like that in the rules. That its designed to b played with the Base game, and combinations with other expansions are at own risk.
I like how theyve included some combination questions in the rules for new expansions, like the new version of hills&sheep
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I like how theyve included some combination questions in the rules for new expansions, like the new version of hills&sheep
...with the help from me. But the 9th expansion for the new edition is not finished with the rules, also not the 8th expansion.
For the mini The Watchtowers - I didn't get the rules for correction reading - and now you can see the problems in the rule sheed.