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Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: InTheDark on December 19, 2017, 09:30:34 PM

Title: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 19, 2017, 09:30:34 PM
I was looking for the Variant Rules for The Labyrinth in English but I couldn't find anything that was in the regular rules format >:(.
So I decided to use Google Translate to translate the rules into English. I edited the text from Google Translate to be more consistent
e.g. changing maze to labyrinth, changing street to road, etc.

If anyone has any improvements/changes post them here or PM me and I will add them (anyone who speaks German would be appreciated).

It Is Available To Download At:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=339


Merry Christmas Everyone :D!
Posted on: 20th of December 2017

Edit on 22nd of December 2017:
Version 1.1 is now Available to download from the link above :D!

Edit on 23nd of December 2017:
Version 1.2 is now Available to download from the link above :D!
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: aenima on December 21, 2017, 12:14:22 AM
InTheDark... I think the official rules in the regular format are in german...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B87HIKt_PkmQTkpTbzg5WHJjM1U/view
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 21, 2017, 12:37:55 AM
InTheDark... I think the official rules in the regular format are in german...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B87HIKt_PkmQTkpTbzg5WHJjM1U/view
That is the document I edited :).
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: aenima on December 21, 2017, 01:09:58 AM
I think they are the only one
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 21, 2017, 03:37:22 AM
I think they are the only one

I got the same document from the old HiG website using the Wayback Machine.
Here is the link: https://web.archive.org/web/20170517132603/http://www.hans-im-glueck.de:80/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/CarcLabyrint_Regel_Final.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20170517132603/http://www.hans-im-glueck.de:80/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/CarcLabyrint_Regel_Final.pdf)
I didn't realize it is available on Google Drive:).
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Sinscerly on December 21, 2017, 05:32:08 AM
First of all great work with translating the german rules to english. As the labyrinth isn't in the S-CAR. (hint hint  ::) ).
There were some questions for me reading it:
Quote from: Labyrinth english translation
If you add a road to an existing road that
already has a Meeple on it, you can not
(as usual) use a Meeple. The labyrinth
and the four outgoing roads are the
exceptions.
I think it is maybe better to say: place, here.

Quote from: Labyrinth english translation
The labyrinth and the connected roads are scored
when all 4 of the roads are completed. If you have
the majority of the Meeples on the labyrinth and
the connected roads, you will get 1 point for each
card as usual. In addition, you get 2 points for each
Meeple standing on the labyrinth or on a
connected street. If several players have the
majority each of them gets the full amount of
points.
I think it is maybe better to say: tile , here.

Furthermore it looks really good, I haven't yet had the time to look at the german translation.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Just a Bill on December 21, 2017, 07:39:07 AM
I tried to make some editing recommendations, but Acrobat won't let me copy-paste the text, and when I try to save the file in a text format it says I don't have permissions for that operation.

If you'd like to post just the text of your translation, I'd be happy to make some editorial suggestions.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 21, 2017, 06:44:55 PM
First of all great work with translating the german rules to english. As the labyrinth isn't in the S-CAR. (hint hint  ::) ).
There were some questions for me reading it:
Quote from: Labyrinth english translation
If you add a road to an existing road that
already has a Meeple on it, you can not
(as usual) use a Meeple. The labyrinth
and the four outgoing roads are the
exceptions.
I think it is maybe better to say: place, here.

Quote from: Labyrinth english translation
The labyrinth and the connected roads are scored
when all 4 of the roads are completed. If you have
the majority of the Meeples on the labyrinth and
the connected roads, you will get 1 point for each
card as usual. In addition, you get 2 points for each
Meeple standing on the labyrinth or on a
connected street. If several players have the
majority each of them gets the full amount of
points.
I think it is maybe better to say: tile , here.

Furthermore it looks really good, I haven't yet had the time to look at the german translation.

Thank you for your suggestions :), I have updated the pdf and I will upload it now.

I tried to make some editing recommendations, but Acrobat won't let me copy-paste the text, and when I try to save the file in a text format it says I don't have permissions for that operation.

If you'd like to post just the text of your translation, I'd be happy to make some editorial suggestions.

That strange because it appears that Sinscerly manage to copy the text, this may be because I edit locked the document (I have a bit of a habit of doing that) and your pdf reader doesn't let you copy text from edit locked documents. I will upload the next document with no edit lock and post the text here.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 21, 2017, 06:50:41 PM
The link at the top of the page will now take you to the updated version or if you're feeling lazy, here is the link: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=339.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 21, 2017, 08:13:59 PM
Here are the rules in text form for anyone who wants them:
Edit:Please be aware this is the text from 1.1 the current version at the time of writing is 1.2 :).

Klaus-Jürgen Wrede
Carcassonne
Das Labyrinth
Rules for advanced players
In issue 1/2016 of the SPIEL DOCH! There are two new tiles for Carcassonne. One has been illustrated in the style of the classic edition by Doris Matthäus, the other in the style of the current edition by Anne Pätzke. Both tiles can be used in all editions. The combination with other extensions and mini-extensions is not completely tested and we do not take any rule explanations for these cases.

Game Components: 2 landscape tiles with a Labyrinth, marked with SD
Setting Up: Mix the Labyrinths under the previous tiles.


1. Placing a tile
If you draw a labyrinth, you place it according to normal rules.

2. Placing a meeple
Since the labyrinth makes the connections of the roads, quite unmanageable, the placing of the Meeple is regulated differently in this variant. If you place the labyrinth, you may place a Meeple on it, even if there is already a Meeple on one or more connected roads. Who owns these Meeple does not matter.

You place the labyrinth on a road that you connect with it. Although there is already a Meeple on this road, you may place a Meeple on the labyrinth.

As you progress through the game, if you place a tile at an exit of the labyrinth that does not have a Meeple yet, you may place a Meeple there, even though the network of roads and the labyrinth itself may have a Meeple.

Green later creates a road to an unoccupied labyrinth exit. He too is allowed to use a Meeple, although Meeple is already on the Labyrinth and the adjacent streets.

If you add a road to an existing road that already has a Meeple on it, you can not (as usual) place a Meeple. The labyrinth and the four outgoing roads are the exceptions.

You will later attach a road to a labyrinth exit. Since there is already a black Meeple, you may not use any of your Meeple on the road.


3. Scoring a feature
The labyrinth and the connected roads are scored when all 4 of the roads are completed. If you have the majority of the Meeples on the labyrinth and the connected roads, you will get 1 point for each tile as usual. In addition, you get 2 points for each Meeple standing on the labyrinth or on a connected street. If several players have the majority each of them gets the full amount of points.

All the roads are completed. You and   Black are tied in first place.

You and Black get 8 points for the tiles and 10 points for the 5 Meeples on the tiles. Altogether you both get 18 points

© 2016 Hans im Glück Verlags-GmbH Birnauer Str. 15 80809 München info@hans-im-glueck.de

In our Online shop we offer items for Carcassonne and our other games, as well as a spare parts service. www.cundco.de

We want to play with you!
Every year we tour Germany and pitch our play tents to play with you. More on:  www.carcassonne-on-tour.de





Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Sinscerly on December 22, 2017, 04:14:14 AM
Well no one can stop Linux pdf readers  >:D >:D
As I was able to copy it, just select the text and then right click on it and it says copy me O0
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 22, 2017, 05:47:54 AM
Well no one can stop Linux pdf readers  >:D >:D
As I was able to copy it, just select the text and then right click on it and it says copy me O0
It let me copy in Acrobat DC on Windows :).
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Just a Bill on December 22, 2017, 06:25:37 AM
Yeah, my Acrobat is pretty ancient. Like 7.0 or something.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 22, 2017, 06:54:34 AM
Yeah, my Acrobat is pretty ancient. Like 7.0 or something.
I posted the text above :).
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Just a Bill on December 22, 2017, 07:08:27 AM
I posted the text above :).

Yep, I saw it. I posted that last comment when I started my editorial analysis, which is now finished. The following notes are suggested to enhance rules clarity, improve grammar, and increase consistency with other English Carcassonne rules documents.

Klaus-Jürgen Wrede
Carcassonne
Das The Labyrinth

Rules for advanced players

In issue 1/2016 of the SPIEL DOCH! [italics] There are two new tiles for Carcassonne. One has been illustrated in the style of the classic edition by Doris Matthäus, the other in the style of the current edition by Anne Pätzke. Both tiles can be used in all editions. The combinations with other extensions expansions and mini-extensions expansions is are not completely tested and we do not take give any rule explanations for these cases.

Game Components: 2 landscape tiles with a Labyrinth, marked with SD
Setting Up: Mix the Labyrinths under with the previous other landscape tiles.

1. Placing a tile
If you draw a labyrinth, you place it according to the normal rules.

2. Placing a meeple
Since the labyrinth makes the connections of the roads, [delete comma] quite unmanageable, the placing of the Meeples is regulated differently in this variant. If you place the labyrinth, you may place a Meeple on it, [delete comma] even if there is already a Meeple on one or more connected roads. Who owns these Meeple It does not matter who owns these meeples.

You place the labyrinth on next to a road that you connect with it. Although there is already a Meeple on this road, you may place a Meeple on the labyrinth.

As you progress through the game, if you place a tile at an exit of the labyrinth that does not have a Meeple yet, you may place a Meeple there, [delete comma] even though the network of roads and the labyrinth itself may have a Meeple.

Green later creates adds a road to an unoccupied labyrinth exit. He too is allowed to use a Meeple, although Meeples are is already on the Labyrinth and the adjacent streets roads.

If you add a road to an existing road that already has a Meeple on it, you can not (as usual) place a Meeple. The labyrinth and the four outgoing roads are the exceptions. [Editor's note: The single-tile labyrinth and its four multi-tile branches are treated as five "sub-roads" for the purposes of deployment and occupation, but the whole thing is treated as a single road for completion and scoring.]

You will later attach a road to a labyrinth exit. Since there is already a black Meeple, you may not use place any of your Meeples on the road.

3. Scoring a feature
The labyrinth and the connected roads are scored when all 4 of the roads are completed. If you have the majority of the Meeples on the labyrinth and the connected roads, you will get 1 point for each tile as usual. In addition, you get 2 points for each Meeple standing on the labyrinth or on a connected street road. If several players have the majority, [insert comma] each of them gets the full amount number of points.

All the roads are completed. You and  Black are tied in for first place.

You and Black each get 8 points for the tiles and 10 points for the 5 Meeples on the tiles. Altogether you both each get 18 points.

© 2016 Hans im Glück Verlags-GmbH Birnauer Str. 15 80809 München info@hans-im-glueck.de

In our Online shop we offer items for Carcassonne and our other games, as well as a spare parts service. www.cundco.de

We want to play with you!
Every year we tour Germany and pitch our play tents to play with you. More on:  www.carcassonne-on-tour.de
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Just a Bill on December 22, 2017, 07:29:29 AM
Also one global note: The English Carcassonne rules do not capitalize "meeple." I did not mark this throughout the text above since it would add a lot more noise to the comments.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 22, 2017, 07:39:27 AM
Thanks for your suggestions Just a Bill :)! It is getting late where I am so I will make the adjustments in the morning

Das The Labyrinth
In relation to changing this I am not sure if this is possible because the shadow may be an image but I will look into it.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Whaleyland on December 22, 2017, 12:03:48 PM
I can't see the example, but I am a bit confused about the final scoring. So there were 5 meeples on the feature? A third player's meeple is nowhere mentioned in these rules making it seem like all a player needs to do to win all the points for the Labyrinth is having anything on the feature. 5 cannot be divided in two cleanly so either Red and Black each have 2 meeples and another unmentioned player has one, or the example is flawed.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Just a Bill on December 22, 2017, 02:27:25 PM
I am a bit confused about the final scoring. So there were 5 meeples on the feature?

Correct:

(https://s20.postimg.cc/5y1ax44bx/temp.jpg)
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 22, 2017, 05:28:11 PM
Version 1.2 is now available you can get it here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=339
This version contains suggestions from Just a Bill. I would like to give a big thank you to Just a Bill for helping!

Das The Labyrinth
Unfortunately I wasn't able to change this. I believe this is because the black text is an image. When I have some time I will look into changing it.

[Editor's note: The single-tile labyrinth and its four multi-tile branches are treated as five "sub-roads" for the purposes of deployment and occupation, but the whole thing is treated as a single road for completion and scoring.]
There wasn't enough room for the editors note so it will have to be left out :(.

Also one global note: The English Carcassonne rules do not capitalize "meeple." I did not mark this throughout the text above since it would add a lot more noise to the comments.
All "Meeple"'s have been changed to "meeple"'s C:-)!

And for a final edit I added a line of text in the bottom left thanking Sinscerly and Just a Bill for their help :D!
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 23, 2017, 12:10:18 AM
I am a bit confused about the final scoring. So there were 5 meeples on the feature?

Correct:

(https://s20.postimg.cc/5y1ax44bx/temp.jpg)

The Fifth meeple belonging to green was mentioned in Placing a meeple
Image:
(https://s26.postimg.cc/k5g3hiw09/green_meeple_labyrinth_1.2.png)
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Vinçon on December 23, 2017, 04:11:47 AM
Is it just me or the Labyrinth rules are the most unclear thing ever made? And thanks for the translation + merit!
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Rosco on December 23, 2017, 04:18:20 AM
Is it just me or the Labyrinth rules are the most unclear thing ever made? And thanks for the translation + merit!
I think it is fairly straight forward. The concept being that the player on the tile itself is the owner of the labyrinth.  Any meeple on the roads connecting to it are trapped in the labyrinth until it is complete and the owner scores 2 points for every meeple trapped.  Then the road scores separately as if it is one continuous road. 

The anomaly is that you can always add a meeple to a road connecting to the labyrinth even if the other roads are already claimed and even if the labyrinth itself is already claimed.

It is as if the way through to connect the roads is not connected until it is fully complete.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Vinçon on December 23, 2017, 05:01:08 AM
Your wording made it much easier to understand. Thank you, Rosco!
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: aenima on December 23, 2017, 05:46:06 AM
The labyrinth is a very dangerous tile! And if you play with IAC or/and Mage and Witch, it can bring a lot of points! ...and it adds a great graphic to the landscape too... I love it!  ^-^
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Just a Bill on December 23, 2017, 09:05:09 AM
I think it is fairly straight forward. The concept being that the player on the tile itself is the owner of the labyrinth.  Any meeple on the roads connecting to it are trapped in the labyrinth until it is complete and the owner scores 2 points for every meeple trapped.  Then the road scores separately as if it is one continuous road.

But this is not correct. You are giving the 2-per-meeple bonus points to the player who placed his follower on the labyrinth tile, but the rules give all the points to whoever has the majority across the entire labyrinth road network. Also there are not two separate scorings as you have suggested; it's all one. I would encourage you to read the rules again, and check the final example for confirmation.

Is it just me or the Labyrinth rules are the most unclear thing ever made?

Yes, they are confusing, as evidenced by the disagreement above. I initially struggled to wrap my head around how this all works, and coming back to it now after some time I had to "learn it again." Part of the problem is that the rules over-explain (lots of text for what should be a simple concept), which is why I wrote the Editor's Note trying to distill it down to its basics:

The single-tile labyrinth and its four multi-tile branches are treated as five "sub-roads" for deployment and occupation, but the whole thing is treated as a single road for completion and scoring.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Vinçon on December 23, 2017, 12:56:35 PM
The single-tile labyrinth and its four multi-tile branches are treated as five "sub-roads" for deployment and occupation, but the whole thing is treated as a single road for completion and scoring.

Man, you are really good. Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 23, 2017, 05:32:56 PM
I think it is fairly straight forward. The concept being that the player on the tile itself is the owner of the labyrinth.  Any meeple on the roads connecting to it are trapped in the labyrinth until it is complete and the owner scores 2 points for every meeple trapped.  Then the road scores separately as if it is one continuous road.

But this is not correct. You are giving the 2-per-meeple bonus points to the player who placed his follower on the labyrinth tile, but the rules give all the points to whoever has the majority across the entire labyrinth road network. Also there are not two separate scorings as you have suggested; it's all one. I would encourage you to read the rules again, and check the final example for confirmation.

Is it just me or the Labyrinth rules are the most unclear thing ever made?

Yes, they are confusing, as evidenced by the disagreement above. I initially struggled to wrap my head around how this all works, and coming back to it now after some time I had to "learn it again." Part of the problem is that the rules over-explain (lots of text for what should be a simple concept), which is why I wrote the Editor's Note trying to distill it down to its basics:

The single-tile labyrinth and its four multi-tile branches are treated as five "sub-roads" for deployment and occupation, but the whole thing is treated as a single road for completion and scoring.

In my opinion the rules a quite simple after reading them a couple of times :).

The labyrinth is a very dangerous tile! And if you play with IAC or/and Mage and Witch, it can bring a lot of points! ...and it adds a great graphic to the landscape too... I love it!  ^-^
I hadn't thought of that! You could also score extra points by using the robber!
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: Willem on December 24, 2017, 06:55:34 AM
I think the labyrinth can really boost points for roads! With an inn, or the mage, or a German cathedral it can really be worth investing in!
Title: Re: Carcassonne: The Labyrinth Variant English Rules Translation
Post by: InTheDark on December 24, 2017, 05:45:22 PM
I think the labyrinth can really boost points for roads! With an inn, or the mage, or a German cathedral it can really be worth investing in!
And with the Variant rules it adds extra incentive to build it :)!