Thoughts on converting C2 tiles to C1 artwork style

[Decar]

yes, it applies to CarcF 

[Amorpheus]

While it does stink that CarcC has not been granted the same treatment as CarcF, as a fan (of C1), I'm glad we at least have an option to join a free (German) forum to download C2 to C1 conversions that HiG has approved. Although navigating the forum isn't easy through translations, CarcF has welcomed CarcC input and collaborations on these conversions going forward. Maybe Safari can post links to the download pages on CarcF on this thread for people who are members of both forums?

For what it's worth, I think Just a Bill handled this thread properly by stating from the onset that he would not be sharing full tile sets for his conversions. And I do like the Abbot gardens he came up with.

[seli82]

Hallo an alle,
wir im deutschen Forum sind froh, dass es überhaupt nun erlaubt ist offizielle Erweiterungen um zu setzen. PresetM hat sich die Mühe gemacht die Erlaubnis zu bekommen.
Auch wenn CarcF meist deutsch ist, denke ich das es für alle Interessierten möglich ist sich dort anzumelden. Es gibt genug Mitglieder die auch englisch sprechen und sicher gern euch helfen.
Ich spreche leider kein englisch, bin auf "translate.google.de" angewiesen. Ich kann aus Erfahrung sagen. Man kann die Übersetzung verstehen.
Also traut euch und schaut mal ins Carcassonne-Forum.

Hier ist mal der Link zu Rechtliches zur Umsetzung von Erweiterungen des klassischen Carcassonne in Carcassonne II Edition und umgekehrt.

Hier ist der Link zu den fertigen von HIG genehmigten Erweiterungen, "Die Wachtürme" und  "Der Abt"

Viel Spaß damit

Gruß Elisabeth
 

[Amorpheus]

Danke Elisabeth

[seli82]

Ich habe dieses Thema in das deutsche Forum kopiert.

[Safari]

Here is a translation of Seli's posts:

Hello to all,
We in the German Forum are happy, that now it is allowed to transfer official expansions at all. PrestM took the trouble to get the authorisation.
Also if CarcF is mostly in German, I think that it is possible to register there for everyone interested. There are enough members that also speak English and surely they will help you with pleasure.
Unfortunately I don't speak any English, I have to rely on "translate.*****.de" [translator's note: No advertising here. ]. From experience I can say: One can understand the translation.
Therefore, have the courage and look into the Carcassonne-Forum.

Here is the link to Legal notes on the Conversion of expansions from classic Carcassonne to Carcassonne Edition II and vice versa.[t. n.: Only in German].

Here is the Link to the finishd and from HIG approved expansions "The Watchtowers" and "The Abbot"

Lots of fun with them

Greetings Elisabeth

I have copied this topic into the German forum.

[Safari]

I can understand the bitter taste, which the agreement between HiG and CarcF brings to CarcC and you. However, just like Seli (and surely many other members as well on CarcF and CarC) I'm happy that we are allowed to do conversions at all. I agree that it might not be that easy for you to take part on conversion projects on CarcF, but if you want I can try to internationalise as much as possible. I just found out that there is a translation tool on CarcF that allows you to translate everything into English (and other languages as well). Actually it works very well!

Also I've already proposed to create a conversion sub forum where all the discussions about on-going and future conversion projects will be held. So, if we create such a sub forum (and I really hope so and will lobby for it), you know at any time where the hot discussions are going on.

The final documents will be saved in a separate section of the download corner. Seli already gave you the link. Here it is again.

Also for me it is quite sad, that Just a Bill's great attempt of converting the 10th expansion was not taken into account until now. Unfortunately this is what happens when discussions go on on two different platforms at the same time. So maybe the centralisation of conversion projects on CarcF also can be a chance to funnel al the creativity and the ideas of all of us in order to create a high quality expansion.

At the moment the discussions on that specific translation project has been stopped because we have to wait for the permission from HiG. The publisher will hold a strategic meeting in September, where they probably will discuss if we are allowed to convert the 10th expansion for classic Carcassonne or not. What I want to say is that it is still not too late! All of you, who want to have a word in the discussion, still can take part. The discussion will go on once we have the permission from HiG. Here is the link to the topic on CarcF: "Mange frei!" for classic Carcassonne

Just A Bill, if you want, I guess it could be a good idea to also show the file of your conversion attempt on CarcF. Once it is there, people can look at it while we wait for the permission and have it in mind when the discussion starts again. 

[wolnic]

I just found out that there is a translation tool on CarcF that allows you to translate everything into English (and other languages as well). Actually it works very well!

I've been using that since the CarcF site got rebranded a few months ago. I can only agree that for most things it's good enough to get a flavour of what's being discussed - sometimes the detail does get lost in the resulting bad grammar or failed word translation, though.

Personally, I'm quite happy that there is somewhere to act as a centralised point for the conversion of the official expansions, so as to avoid a situation where several individuals spend time and effort coming up with subtly different versions of the same thing.

I much prefer the way in which The Watchtowers have been drawn for CarcI, than the official CarcII version (I think it's the viewpoint that's all wrong), and hope to print them out and try them in a game over the next few weeks - now I've got some more blank tiles.

[aenima]

Wow... I have seen the conversions.... good work! Also the rules well made! I'd like to know if the watchtower rules have some official clarificatin from hig... and I'd like to know if we can share all of this and if I can put  them into the RCA (the italian CAR).

[Decar]

If there's one thing Carcassonne needs it's subtly different versions of the same thing!

If artists were dissuaded by other people's creations, nothing new would get developed.

We've not heard from 'Just a Bill' in a while: I hope you've not been dissuaded.  Your work is always welcome here.

[danisthirty]

I've mentioned in plenty of previous posts that I'm not really fussed about the new artwork and am equally happy to play with either version. As such, the idea of converting expansions between artwork versions isn't something I feel strongly about. I get why it's important for some people, but for me, I don't care.

What I DO care about is the community here at CarcC and everyone who is part of it. Under most circumstances we can quietly co-exist with our sister-site CarcF and there have been several fun projects of note that have encouraged collaboration between the two sites. However, I will admit that it can be frustrating at times trying to keep up with everything that's taking place on a German forum for a German game with German publishers who seem increasingly oblivious to the fact that there are now many people OUTSIDE of Germany who follow their game just as enthusiastically as those inside it.

(Side note: let it be known [for those who don't already know] that trying to keep a "complete" Carcassonne collection and living outside of Germany is hell. And very expensive. With most of that money going to people on eBay who have picked up the latest German exclusive locally for a reasonable price and then unwittingly (perhaps) forced the rest of the world to fight for it and walked away with something like 1000% profit – and refused to accept payment via PayPal)

This said, I count myself very lucky to have met a number of CarcF's regulars in Essen last year and had a great time with them. I even met members of HiG and got on well with them too, AND they paid for my dinner and beers! But that's not what this is about...

If CarcF have been given special permission to do something and our best solution is that members of CarcC should merrily make their way over to CarcF to be part of the action then why do we need CarcC at all? Perhaps we should just pull down the blinds, lock the door and leave a little note on the window that says "See you at CarcF! "

Apologies if I'm being dramatic, but it can be pretty painful when you feel strongly about a certain community and work hard for it, despite publisher bias towards another. Especially when there are only two to begin with! I guess this has just touched a nerve for me, and I'm deeply concerned about where we appear to be heading or what's going to happen when we get there.

[Just a Bill]

We've not heard from 'Just a Bill' in a while: I hope you've not been dissuaded.  Your work is always welcome here.

Thank you for the encouragement, Decar. I'm not really dissuaded, just overwhelmed. A lot of information has appeared on this topic recently, I've got a metric crapton of things going on in real life, and I'm feeling guilty about my slow rate of progress on the CAR 7.5. There are multiple things to respond to in this thread, and I've been balking at the level of effort needed to get my thoughts organized and my graphics updated.

I should probably break my responses into two or three posts, so I'll just start with my question for you: Do you still think we need to hide the images we've added to this thread? That would certainly make it harder for new readers to follow. I intentionally limited what I posted, to keep it from being usable in any tile-making effort: I posted only two of 20 draft, sample tiles (I've only even created about four so far — an effort which is now on hold), and I deliberately downsampled them such that if they were blown up to actual tile resolution they would look lame and blurry.

Given Safari's suggestion that I actually post them to CarC, are you comfortable with us keeping this thread intact and understandable for the time being?

[seli82]

Ihr habt hier ein super Forum. Eure Erweiterungen sind bei uns sehr beliebt.
Daher sind doch so viele von uns bei euch.
Bitte seit nicht frustriert, dass HiG nur dem Carcassonne-Forum die Genehmigung gegeben hat. 

Danke, Seli für das Übertragen der Nachrichten!
(Nur als kleine Randbemerkung: Das Thema auf CarcC ist öffentlich zugänglich, man bräuchte als nur den Link dorthin und könnte auch ohne Anmeldung alles lesen.)

Jetzt haben wir genau die Situation auf CarcC, die ich befürchtet hab: Wichtige Mitglieder sind beleidigt, weil die ohnehin schon benachteiligten internationalen Fans, die jedoch in der Überzahl seien, noch mehr benachteiligt werden und die deutschen Fans, wie immer bevorzugt. Danisthirty schreibt polemisch, dass man gleich alle Mitglieder nach CarcF verfrachten könnte und CarcC mit dem Hinweis "Wir sehen uns auf CarcF!" schließen.

Persönlich kann ich die Frustration verstehen. Rat hab ich auf die schnelle aber auch keinen.

Ich habe leider auch keinen Rat. CarcC-Mitglieder können die rechtlichen Gegebenheiten in Deutschland nicht kennen. HiG ist deutsch und wir sind deutsch. Daher kamen wir natürlich schneller auf den Gedanken, dass wir um Erlaubnis fragen müssen. Es hätte theoretisch auch anders laufen können. Wenn ein CarcC-Mitglied vor PresetM mit HiG Kontakt aufgenommen hätte. Wer weis was dann gewesen währe.

Mir ist bekannt, dass auch ein Link gereicht hätte. Ich dachte, dass evtl. CarcC-Mitglieder auch hier mit uns über das Thema diskutieren wollen.

[Just a Bill]

Apologies if I'm being dramatic, but it can be pretty painful when you feel strongly about a certain community and work hard for it, despite publisher bias towards another. Especially when there are only two to begin with! I guess this has just touched a nerve for me, and I'm deeply concerned about where we appear to be heading or what's going to happen when we get there.

I totally understand your feelings, Dan; they are my own feelings "out of the box" as well. But then my second take was this: Although it can feel like HiG cares about CarcF and doesn't care about CarcC, from their perspective as a publisher they might just be thinking that their jurisdiction is to take care of the German-speaking world and Z-Man's (formerly RGG's) jurisdiction is to take care of the English-speaking world. (Now whether RGG actually did or Z-Man actually does is another issue.)

When I was at Decipher, we had several partners and translators who translated, published, and distributed our games in a variety of other languages. We had to rely on them to service those player communities (promotion, prize support, online community interaction, whatever) because it was simply too big a job for us to manage the whole world.

Just a thought...

[Just a Bill]

And I do like the Abbot gardens [Just a Bill] came up with.

Thanks for that, but I think we can all agree that the now-official conversion gardens are soooo much better!