Questions

[Bumsakalaka]

Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

Where have you read this?

Again: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005
Rules for C2 Halb so wild, page 2, section "3"

But there is a problem with new rules which change scoring monasteries. Maximum points (without wineyards or other expansions) is 9 points for finished monastery. One point for every standard "tile" position:
If two triangular tiles have been placed instead of a regular land tile you still only score 1 point for this segment.

Then more contradictions with C2... lol 9 points with structure 3x3 but double triangular tiles counts as one... But only 1 triangular tile in square space counts like 1 tile-1 point too.... But this only affects to monasteries right?? Hahahaha Then these rules are only for C2?? HiG should be more clear with C1 now or say something about if these rules affects to C1 too....


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I quess, it will be on players. When play only C1 halflings, they will use old rules, if play C2 or both, they will play by new rules. Or they can choose family rules and combine.

Anyway, 3x3 contains halflings by C2 Rules will affect also expansions as Barber-Surgeons, Acrobats, Gardens, because it is important to have full 3x3 border

[Murphy013]

It looks like that they count occupied places. I‘m missing the interactions with all other expansions. You find on WiCa a lot of stuff regarding to C1. Meepledrone will now figure out a lot of stuff.
But in my opinion we got clarification for halflings which were now dropped or not recognised in any way

[Meepledrone]

(180.) Are these monasteries completed?

[A.]

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at least by one halfling) and a player would score 16 points (1 normal tile and 15 halflings) for it during the game.

Note: The updated rules for Halflings (as per the update in 04/2020) state that:
1) Monasteries are completed when the 8 adjacent spaces are occupied by at least one tile: 1 square tile, 1 halfling tile, 2 hailing tiles (or one part of a double-sized tile, I would add) -- Nothing new here
2) Monasteries score according to the occupied spaces around the monasteries and the monastery itself, not the tiles -- This seems a regression for the new rules from 10/2015 back to the original rules in 2014

The consequences of 2) are the following:
* Completed monasteries score always 9 points during the game (1 point for the space occupied by the monastery and 1 point per occupied adjacent space)
* Incomplete monasteries also score 1 point for the space occupied by the monastery and 1 point per occupied adjacent space at the end of the game.

Other consequences of 2) when scoring for monastic buildings and gardens involving halflings:
- Completed monastic buildings and gardens will score 9 points no matter what
- The removal of the abbot will score 1 point for the space occupied by the feature and 1 point per occupied adjacent space
- An incomplete monastic building will score 1 point for the space occupied by the feature and 1 point per occupied adjacent space

Moreover, this will have consequences with German castles:
- Completed German castles  will score the same will score 12 points no matter what
- An incomplete German castle will score 2 point for the German castle and 1 point per occupied adjacent space
- Monastic buildings and gardens should with adjacent German castles should score according to occupied adjacent spaces instead of tiles. Therefore, these two monasteries score 9 points too:



Crazy conclusions? It is just porting the rules to other scenarios where features score in a similar way to monasteries. 


So after this digression lest's get back to question (180.A)

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at least by one halfling) and a player would score 9 points (1 for the space  occupied by the monastery tile and 8 adjacent occupied spaces) for it during the game.

[B.]

This monastery is NOT completed (one of the surrounding 8 spaces is empty). A player would score 16 points (16 halflings) for it if scored by an abbot during the game or at the end of the game.

Note the halflings next to the monastery (on another halfling) does not complete the monastery. They are both on the same space.

This monastery is NOT completed (one of the surrounding 8 spaces is empty). A player would score 8 points (8 occupied spaces including the monastery) for it if scored by an abbot during the game or at the end of the game.

Note the halflings next to the monastery (on another halfling) does not complete the monastery. They are both on the same space.

[C.]

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at by halflings and normal tiles) and a player would score 16 points (1 normal tile and 15 halflings) for it during the game.

Note the triangular gap by the monastery is unimportant.

This monastery is completed (the surrounding 8 spaces are occupied at by halflings and normal tiles) and a player would score 9 points  for it during the game.

Note the triangular gap by the monastery is unimportant.

Any comments?

[Meepledrone]

(181.) How many points do you receive for this monastery? 17 or 18?

This monastery will score 18 points (1 point for each of the 18 halflings on the space with the monastery tile and the 8 adjacent spaces).

For this scenario to be possible, the monastery tile has to be the last one placed here, otherwise the monastery would be completed earlier, since triangular gaps in the any of the 9 spaces with monastery tile and the 8 adjacent spaces would be ignored.

You can revisit this clarification:
* Monastery completion with halflings: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#cite_note-9

As per the new rules published, this monastery is complete and scores 9 points (1 for the space occupied by the monastery and 1 for each occupied adjacent space). All the spaces are occupied by 2 halfling tiles.

[Meepledrone]

[186.] The big top affects all these tiles?

Yes, double-sized tiles are considered 1 tile so they will be considered.

Here we should apply the same principle in halflings: the big should consider all the meeples on the tiles occupying:
* The space with the big top
* The 8 adjacent adjacent spaces
* The castle tokens overlapping any of the 9 aforementioned spaces

You can revisit the rules here:
* The big top scoring rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature
* The considerations for castles: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Circus_tiles.2C_animal_tokens_and_the_big_top_2

[Meepledrone]

[186.] The big top affects all these tiles?

Yes, double-sized tiles are considered 1 tile so they will be considered.

Here we should apply the same principle in halflings: the big should consider all the meeples on the tiles occupying:
* The space with the big top
* The 8 adjacent adjacent spaces
* The castle tokens overlapping any of the 9 aforementioned spaces

You can revisit the rules here:
* The big top scoring rules: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#3._Scoring_a_feature
* The considerations for castles: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Circus_tiles.2C_animal_tokens_and_the_big_top_2

[Meepledrone]

(182.B) But you can look at your halflings?

Of course. You can look at them any time. You place them face down just to avoid other players to look at them during the game.

[NGC 54]

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-1? This clarification is official.
What happens with the if you place a castle where there is a "1 point for each tile showing at least one part of a city [4]" watchtower?
"The meeple placed on the watchtower tile is the one receiving the points. The rules assume only one meeple on the watchtower tile, but you could use a flying machine, the city of Carcassonne or a crop circle to deploy more meeples. These interactions are not covered by the rules (and HiG won't be providing any clarifications as per the disclaimer in the rules).

Since the bonus goes to the meeple, no majority would be taken into consideration and each player would get the full bonus points for each meeple on the watchtower."
Example: You have 2 meeples on a watchtower tile. The watchtower scores 5 points. You receive 5 points twice or 10 points?

[Meepledrone]

[187.] "Each player must either...
A) ... take a Meeple from their supply and place it next to another one
of their Meeples of this kind on the same land tile.
OR
B) ... remove one of their Meeples of the determined kind from a land tile
and put it back into their supply.
If a player does not have any Meeples of the determined kind,
they cannot complete neither action A nor B." In Crop Circle A) is "may", not "must".

Firstly, this is a mistranslation by HiG in the new rules. If you translate the German rules you will read the following:

"Each player either...
A) ...may take a Meeple from their supply and place it next to another one
of their Meeples of this kind on the same land tile.
OR
B) ...must remove one of their Meeples of the determined kind from a land tile
and put it back into their supply.

ZMG made a similar mistake in the English rules for BB6. You can check the rules here according to the original HiG intent:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles#4._Crop_Circle_Action

Note that the rules always have stated that:
A) all the players (with meeples of the given kind) may place a meeple
B) all the players (with meeples of the given kind) must remove a meeple

When choosing A) players have the option to do nothing or place a meeple. When choosing B) there is no option fo players with meeples of the given kind.

[188.] "You earn 3 points for sheep on this tile if you guide your flock to the stable. A wolf cannot scatter
your flock." What happens in this case if you draw a wolf token?

The German rules say "You get 3 points for the sheep on this tile if you guide your flock to the stable. A wolf cannot scare these sheep away."

Those 3 sheep will be added to your flock when scored (Guide flock to stable action). If you draw a wolf token, the shepherd and its flock will be removed without scoring and the three sheep will remain in the field for the next shepherd placed in that field.

These sheep will behave like the sheep present in the C1 River III tiles from Big Box 5. You can see a note here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#Hills_.26_Sheep_with_River_III

[Meepledrone]

(188.) Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

You mean that when the dragon is on the tile you may still score these 3 sheep for a shepherd on another tile in the same filed, right?

There is no clarification about this case. There may be two options:
A) The sheep ignore the dragon as they cannot be removed and the shepherd can score them even when the dragon is on the same tile as the sheep.
B) The sheep are temporarily "disabled" by the dragon on the same tile as normal sheep would be eaten by the dragon.

You may need to define a house rule to decide what to do in this case.

[Meepledrone]

Yer, there are exactly written:
The tile depicting the crop circle is played differently from the normal crop circle tiles.

But nice feature is get 3 sheeps which are protected agains wulf and also dragon.

Where have you read this?

Again: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=383&t=5005
Rules for C2 Halb so wild, page 2, section "3"

But there is a problem with new rules which change scoring monasteries. Maximum points (without wineyards or other expansions) is 9 points for finished monastery. One point for every standard "tile" position:
If two triangular tiles have been placed instead of a regular land tile you still only score 1 point for this segment.

Then more contradictions with C2... lol 9 points with structure 3x3 but double triangular tiles counts as one... But only 1 triangular tile in square space counts like 1 tile-1 point too.... But this only affects to monasteries right?? Hahahaha Then these rules are only for C2?? HiG should be more clear with C1 now or say something about if these rules affects to C1 too....


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk

I quess, it will be on players. When play only C1 halflings, they will use old rules, if play C2 or both, they will play by new rules. Or they can choose family rules and combine.

Anyway, 3x3 contains halflings by C2 Rules will affect also expansions as Barber-Surgeons, Acrobats, Gardens, because it is important to have full 3x3 border

I totally agree...

And German castles too

[Meepledrone]

[189.] http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-1? This clarification is official.

Yes, it was official and it matched the rule that monastic buildings and German castles were scored by the number of adjacent tiles. Now that HiG has overridden this, all the related clarifications have to be revisited for the sake of consistency. This clarification was from 10/2015 and was provided in the same batch as the previous new rules for Halflings.

[190.] What happens with the if you place a castle where there is a "1 point for each tile showing at least one part of a city [4]" watchtower?

Since, castles are not city segments anymore, they should be ignored in the watchtower scoring.

You can see the following interaction that explicitly indicate that castles are not cities:

* King and Robber: A castle does not score as a completed city for the king.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Castles_2

* Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars: Meeples from the city of Carcassonne (the castle district) cannot move to a castle, as it is not a city anymore, but a new type of feature instead.
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Count,_King_and_Robber#The_city_of_Carcassonne_and_the_count_of_Carcassonne_2

[191.] "The meeple placed on the watchtower tile is the one receiving the points. The rules assume only one meeple on the watchtower tile, but you could use a flying machine, the city of Carcassonne or a crop circle to deploy more meeples. These interactions are not covered by the rules (and HiG won't be providing any clarifications as per the disclaimer in the rules).

Since the bonus goes to the meeple, no majority would be taken into consideration and each player would get the full bonus points for each meeple on the watchtower."
Example: You have 2 meeples on a watchtower tile. The watchtower scores 5 points. You receive 5 points twice or 10 points?

The interpretation of the rules leads to that conclusion, since the meeple on the watchtower is triggering the watchtower scoring.

Going back to your example, ff both meeples were from different players, both of them should score. If so, if both belong to the sample player, it should happen the same.

All in all, each meeple triggering the watchtower is scored individually.

You can revisit the watchtower rules here:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers#Scoring_a_feature

[NGC 54]

This news rules trigger the necessity of clarifications for halves and double-tiles (Haflings, Castles in Germany and The Markets of Leipzig) for Base game (road, city and monastery scoring), Princess and Dragon (the dragon, the fairy), The Tower (the tower), Abbey and Mayor (the barn, the wagon), Count, King and Robber (King, Robber), Bridges, Castles and Bazaars (the bridge, the castle), The Abbot (the garden), The Flying Machines (the flying machine), The Goldmines (the gold bar), Monasteries in Germany (the meeples placed as abbots), The Watchtower (the watchtower), The Fruit-Bearing Trees (carrying out of a fruit action), the Barber-Surgeons (The living of the bathhouse)...

[Meepledrone]

After reviewing the intended meaning of the original German rules C2 Halflings, my understanding is the following:

* Half-sized tiles are considered individual tiles:
   - You can place meeples on them no matter they share the same square space with another half-sized tile no matter if the latter has a meeple on it.
   - You score features like roads and cities as per the usual rules even if they include half-sized tiles, that is, half-sized tiles count the same as regular tiles.

* The exception is how monasteries behave:
   - Monasteries are completed when they the eight adjacent square spaces are occupied by regular square tiles or, by 1 or 2 half-sized tiles per space --- This is not a change.
   - Completed monasteries always score 9 points, no matter how many tiles can be crammed into the 3x3 grid centered at the monastery. --- This is a return to the original intent of the rules from 2014 with an updated wording.

So it seems this was the original intent by HiG back in 2014 but somehow down the road it got misinterpreted. The discussion around if two half-sized tiles in the same square would score as 1 square tile for cities and roads was never in the rules. It seems to have popped up from the way monasteries considered tiles in their surroundings when half-sized tiles entered the equation.

Therefore, all the clarifications from 10/2015 seem to continue to be valid except for monasteries that go back to their original definition. The number of tiles around a monastery is irrelevant, just the number of occupied spaces.

This redefinition of how monasteries are scored with half-sized tiles has a domino effect on other interactions, even contradicting clarifications from 10/2015. HiG will not provide clarifications for all these interactions so we'll have to extrapolate from the given rules to cover this cases as best as we can. Affected interactions:
* Scoring of all monastic buildings: abbeys, shrines, German monasteries (with a monk), Dutch & Belgian monasteries (with a monk), Japanese buildings (with a monk) and Darmstadt churches should follow the same rules as monasteries
* Scoring of gardens: should follow similar rules to monasteries
* Scoring of the abbot when removed: should follow similar rules to incomplete monasteries
* Scoring of German monasteries: should be adapted to follow similar rules to monasteries (but scoring always 12 points when complete).
* Scoring of monastic buildings and gardens with adjacent double-sized tiles: should be adapted so they score 9 points when complete no matter if one or more double-sized tiles are occupying multiple adjacent spaces to the feature. This would contradict this clarification from 10/2015 where these monasteries would score according to the number of adjacent tiles:


Example:
- Clarification from 10/2015: (A) scores 8 points, (B) scores 7 points 
- Rules aligned with C2 halfings: (A) scores 9 points, (B) scores 9 points 

Additionally, any feature or action considering adjacency from a tile should consider any tile placed on an adjacent square space:
- One regular square tile
- One Half-sized tile
- Two half-sized tiles sharing the same square space
- One half of a double-sized tile (as a consequence)

In general this affects:
- Areas of 3x3 tiles centered at a feature or figure (watchtower tiles, acrobat tiles, circus tiles, fruit-bearing tree tiles, bathhouses, Darmstadt churches)
- Areas of 2x3 tiles (castle fiefs)
- Areas of 4x3 tiles (area of a adjacency to a German castle)
- Adjacencies related to the placement of gold ingots

Other mechanics such the range of the tower, columns and rows for special monasteries with a meeple placed as an abbot, the trajectory of a flier, the movement of dragon, the movement of the flea tokens, etc. will follow the clarifications provided so far:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions

[NGC 54]

"You can place a wagon in a castle when converting a completed small city into a castle. There is no written rule or clarification stating that after scoring the castle you may move the wagon to an adjacent unoccupied feature.

So far we can assume the wagon will score the castle and the player will remove it.

You may define a house rule to move it to any unoccupied feature in the castle fief but, this is not official", but "Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars: If you place your ringmaster on a castle, you score its ringmaster points considering the 6 tiles in the castle fief."

Can I translate WikiCarpedia in Romanian?