Author Topic: Scoring quiz with roads  (Read 15867 times)

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2019, 05:07:59 AM »
Updated my trial  :)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 05:14:43 AM by Vital Pluymers »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2019, 06:14:50 AM »
Thanks Vital Pluymers for your update!

You can see this little quiz has many moving parts.  ;D

Cheers!
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline yezhenhan

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2019, 05:19:26 PM »
The Markets of Lepzig
Wainwrights quarter:Each road that is scored with your majority,you get 1 additional point for each tile.
Footnote 5:The English rules provided by Hans im Glück used "1 bonus point" instead of "1 additional point", what can be misleading when combined with other expansions.
Footnote 6: the additional point would be part of the core feature scoring。

I disagree Footnote 6, I think all Leipzig score is bonus for the player,so I have my family rules as follows:

1,Ginderbread man   
2,Watchtower   
3,Feature point   
Castle  get same pionts as the feature
4,Follower Bonus (Darmstadt church,ringmaster,Leipzig)   
Follower bonus is for the follower, Castle  can not get follower bonus
5,Circus   

This family rule is easy for me to remember.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 03:56:18 AM by yezhenhan »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2019, 02:28:11 AM »
Hi yezhenhan!

Thank you for your comments. I've been reviewing the German and English rules and I think you are completely right. I just updated the pages for Markets of Leipzig and the Scoring During the Game on WICA as a result. After re-reading all the rules, HiG is clearly treating Markets of Leipzig as a bonus for all features although it seemed part of the core feature scoring for roads.

+1 Merit from me for helping WICA. Thank you so much.

Cheers!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2019, 02:30:48 AM »
Dear participants!

Feel free to update your results if you desire so to keep up with the previous update.

Thank you so much again for participating in this little quiz.

Cheers!

Offline benbever

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2019, 07:23:31 AM »
The German rules literally mention "bonus" points in the rules as well.

However I still consider it "core road scoring" since it is exactly the same as Inns, gameplay wise.
Inns make a road worth 2 points per tile for a completed road. Same with Cathedrals.
Multiple Inns don't stack (it stays 2 points per tile.)
But when combined with other expansions, online sources tend to agree that Inns and Cathedrals do stack. And that both give +1 point per road tile. Which is exactly the same as Markets of Leipzig, +1 point per road tile.

I thought the difference between "core" scoring and bonus points was the counting of tiles (meaning multiplication of points).
So +1 per road tile for Inns. And +1 per road tile for Cathedrals (with the added rule of the tile counting double if the road loops back on the Cathedral.) And +1 per road tile, or +3 per shield for cities, for Markets of Leipzig.
I don't see why Leipzig should be treated differently, the mechanism is the same, a bonus score per road tile.

Little Buildings and Castles give a set amount of bonus points, they score for themselves if a road or city is completed. A shed/house/tower is worth 1, 2 or 3 points, and a Castle scores +3 points. This is addition, independent from the number of road tiles.

This page on "The Labyrinth" mentions 4 points/tile if you score a road with one or more Inns, one or more Cathedrals and have a meeple or Wainwrights Quarter
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Labyrinths

The only order of operations problem I see in this quiz is the "timing" of the Witch.
And
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch
gives no info on the timing of the Witch.

But the rules on the Witch do mention: (quote)
"When scoring roads with inns and cities with cathedrals where the witch is present, first add the bonus points from the inn or cathedral, then halve the sum."
If the bonus points from the Inns and Cathedrals are halved, then why not the bonus points from Leipzig?

I'm fine with the Witch  halving the points after the road tile scoring, but before the bonus points from Little Buildings and Castle (so (4*5)/2 +1 +1 +3 = 15) And I'm fine with the Witch halving points after the complete scoring for the road (so ((4*5)+1+1+3)/2 = 12.5 rounded up 13). But treating Markets from Leipzig differently just feels random to me.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 07:38:09 AM by benbever »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2019, 10:16:51 AM »
Hi benbever,

The German rules literally mention "bonus" points in the rules as well.

However I still consider it "core road scoring" since it is exactly the same as Inns, gameplay wise.
Inns make a road worth 2 points per tile for a completed road. Same with Cathedrals.
Multiple Inns don't stack (it stays 2 points per tile.)
But when combined with other expansions, online sources tend to agree that Inns and Cathedrals do stack. And that both give +1 point per road tile. Which is exactly the same as Markets of Leipzig, +1 point per road tile.

I thought the difference between "core" scoring and bonus points was the counting of tiles (meaning multiplication of points).
So +1 per road tile for Inns. And +1 per road tile for Cathedrals (with the added rule of the tile counting double if the road loops back on the Cathedral.) And +1 per road tile, or +3 per shield for cities, for Markets of Leipzig.
I don't see why Leipzig should be treated differently, the mechanism is the same, a bonus score per road tile.

When I started this quiz I was sharing the same thoughts about Markets of Leipzig and roads. I was assuming all modifiers of the value per tile would be part of the core feature scoring. This was and odd case as Markets of Leipzig behaves differently for all other features:

* Cities: it is not part of the core feature scoring as the bonus points go to those players with a meeple in the Coiners quarter and with at least a meeple in the city being scored. Majority in the city is not required, so this bonus is dissociated from the feature. Red is scoring the city but yellow can be getting the bonus points.
 
* Monasteries (and all other monastic buildings by extension): the bonus points are dissociated from the feature. You may get the bonus without a meeple in a monastery.

* Fields: This is a bonus similar to Little Buildings. So there is no discussion.

So under this scenario, Markets of Leipzig would affect the core feature scoring for roads but it would behave as a normal bonus for all the other features.

I just wanted to use the Witch in the quiz to stress this point but if you check the rules (German and English), you can see they always talk about bonus in general terms when discussing the scoring so for me there are two facts here:
* Markets of Leipzig should be consistent with itself and the bonus should be applied the same to all the features (at the end).
* There is another modifier that adds points per tile and it is not a a core feature scoring: the Mage. It is applied after the Inn/Cathedral, so you can have a road or city scoring 0 points at the end of the game due o an Inn or a Cathedral respectively that gets one point per tile thanks to the Mage (city pennants are not that lucky in this case.)

So Markets of Leipzig bonus for roads cannot be considered an odd case. The Mage set a precedent here.

Little Buildings and Castles give a set amount of bonus points, they score for themselves if a road or city is completed. A shed/house/tower is worth 1, 2 or 3 points, and a Castle scores +3 points. This is addition, independent from the number of road tiles.

This page on "The Labyrinth" mentions 4 points/tile if you score a road with one or more Inns, one or more Cathedrals and have a meeple or Wainwrights Quarter
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Labyrinths

That's why I added a comment to indicate that that section works if the Mage and the Witch are not involved. I would need to rework that table as each row would have to include 3 cases: no modifiers, with Mage, with Witch.

The only order of operations problem I see in this quiz is the "timing" of the Witch.
And
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch
gives no info on the timing of the Witch.

But the rules on the Witch do mention: (quote)
"When scoring roads with inns and cities with cathedrals where the witch is present, first add the bonus points from the inn or cathedral, then halve the sum."
If the bonus points from the Inns and Cathedrals are halved, then why not the bonus points from Leipzig?

I'm fine with the Witch  halving the points after the road tile scoring, but before the bonus points from Little Buildings and Castle (so (4*5)/2 +1 +1 +3 = 15) And I'm fine with the Witch halving points after the complete scoring for the road (so ((4*5)+1+1+3)/2 = 12.5 rounded up 13). But treating Markets from Leipzig differently just feels random to me.

I love consistency in the rules. In this case, Markets of Leipzig was designed to be used with the base game and there are no clarifications about its interaction with other expansions. German Cathedrals and Mage & Witch included some clarifications about how to deal with Inns & Cathedrals. So all the scoring calculations is based on this and a bonus like Little Buildings is applied at the end after all modifiers. So implicitly the rules distinguish between:
* What we call the core feature scoring based on the number of points per tile
* Additional bonuses applied afterwards.

The Carcassonne expansions do not make this separation easy in some cases, so let's assume 3 steps when computing the scoring for roads and cities:
1. The core feature scoring based on the number of points per tile (and pennants when applicable) with some modifiers being Inns/Cathedrals the last one applied because its all or nothing nature during the end of the game.
2. An additional modifier applied after core feature scoring: Mage & Witch as per the rules
3. Additional bonuses from other related features such as Little Buildings and so on.

If we consider Markets of Leipzig as an additional bonus as it is stated once and again in its rules, then it should be part of step 3 in the case of roads for roads and cities.

All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!

Offline benbever

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2019, 12:49:41 PM »
Hi Meepledrone,
here's my thoughts again, and thanks for working on these rules!

The official rules unfortunately are unclear about "order of operations" (timing) rules on scoring.
They only give "Mage and Witch after Inns and Cathedrals" and "Little Buildings after all others".
And for German Cathedrals they explain a road tile is worth 3 points with a German Cathedral and an Inn (or 0 points if unfinished).

For Castles in Germany and Markets of Leipzig I couldn't find anything official. So I guessed the castle to be "bonus points" based on that it scored a castle, which is more like a Little Building as in its not a road (tile). And Market of Leipzig to be "core road scoring" based on being road tiles, and having a mechanism exactly like Inns and German Cathedrals. (and the Labyrinth page mentioning a road tile being worth 4 points).

The question you try to answer is if scoring for the Market of Leipzig is "core scoring for the feature" or "bonus scoring dissociated from the scored feature". Which imho doesn't have a clear answer.

Wainwrights quarter +1 point for each road tile for the player with the majority on the road. Exactly like a finished Inn, or German Cathedral. Very much associated with the road (tiles.)
Coiners quarter +3 points for each coat of arms in a scored city in which you have at least one meeple (not neccesarily the majority).
If Red and Yellow have a Meeple in Coiners quarter, and Red scores the city, the fact that Yellow also gets point, does not dissociate the points Red receives from the points from scoring the city. If there's a Witch on the city, I'm not convinced that the Witch is applied before the addition of the Coiners quarter bonus points.
Bookbinders quarter A completed Monastery gives 9 points (most of the time) to the meeple on it, and with a meeple on Bookbinders quarter it gives +4 more points, also to other people not on the monastery but with a meeple on Bookbinders quarter. I don't see how the 4 points are Bookbinders dissociate. Furthermore a Witch can't be on a Monastery.
Tanners quarter Same as Bookbinders quarter, points associated with fields, and the Witch can't go on fields anyway.

So for all of these scenarios, the scoring can be considered "core feature scoring".

However, all of these can also be considered "bonus scoring dissociated from the scored feature".
That is, if you consider the actual Meeple, on the Market in Leipzig, doing the scoring. Which also makes a lot of sense. The Meeple on the road scores the core points, then the witch comes in, then the score from the meeple in Leipzig is added, then Little buildings "after everything else".

It would be so much easier if the Scoring from the Market of Leipzig was a seperate scoring event, like the Watchtowers.

Or if the Mage/Witch had the rule that they're applied last.

If we apply Occam's razor (simplest rule solution is the best) applying the Witch last is the best option(disregarding the rules on Little Buidings)...
((5 tiles * 4) +3 +1 +1)/2 = 12.5 -> 13

Witch after road scoring but before Castle and Little Buildings would be less clear:
( (5 tiles * 4)/2 ) +3 +1 +1 = 15

And Witch after Inns and Cathedrals but Before Markets of Leipzig, Castle and Little Buildings would be the hardest to explain to casual players daring to play Mega Carcassonne...
( (5 tiles * 3)/2 + (5 tiles * 1) +3 +1 +1 = 17.5 -> 18

In short; Witch modifier between Inn/Cathedral road tile +1 bonus and Markets of Leipzig road tile +1 bonus will be really hard to explain to casual players. Which I think is the main reason against it. Unless the Meeple doing the Leipzig scoring was a seperate scoring event, offically dissociated from the road scoring, like the Watchtower.

So Markets of Leipzig bonus for roads cannot be considered an odd case. The Mage set a precedent here.
The Market of Leipzig scoring per tile being unprecedented or not is not an issue. And the Mage can't be on the same road as the Witch.

That's why I added a comment to indicate that that section works if the Mage and the Witch are not involved. I would need to rework that table as each row would have to include 3 cases: no modifiers, with Mage, with Witch.
Still, 4 points/tile is a bit misleading if one of the points is considered a bonus point and the other 3 are considered core feature points. The official rules only ever mention 0, 1, 2 or 3 points/tile.

3. Additional bonuses from other related features such as Little Buildings and so on.
Little Buildings are added to the score "after all others". So after other bonus features.
And the other bonus features (Castles in Germany, maybe Markets of Leipzig) are unclear about when they are added to the score, before or after the Witch for instance.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 12:51:27 PM by benbever »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2019, 03:42:37 PM »
Hi Meepledrone,
here's my thoughts again, and thanks for working on these rules!

Hi benbever,

Believe or not I was waiting for this discussion to happen. The idea behind the quiz was to massage some interactions not very clear according to the rules. So I could challenge the conclusions included in WICA. This is probably a masochistic exercise but I find it quite interesting.

So here we are, discussing out understanding of Markets of Leipzig and depending on the outcome you see all the implications after it. 

The official rules unfortunately are unclear about "order of operations" (timing) rules on scoring.

Correct.

They only give "Mage and Witch after Inns and Cathedrals" and "Little Buildings after all others".

Correct. That all there is.

And for German Cathedrals they explain a road tile is worth 3 points with a German Cathedral and an Inn (or 0 points if unfinished).

Correct. The rules for roads were clear and the only special case is when a road network ends several times at the same cathedral tile. On the other hand, the rules for the scoring of cathedrals where finally clarified in 04/2016. The last clarification to date by HiG.

For Castles in Germany and Markets of Leipzig I couldn't find anything official. So I guessed the castle to be "bonus points" based on that it scored a castle, which is more like a Little Building as in its not a road (tile). And Market of Leipzig to be "core road scoring" based on being road tiles, and having a mechanism exactly like Inns and German Cathedrals. (and the Labyrinth page mentioning a road tile being worth 4 points).

I followed the same reasoning for German Castles and Markets of Leipzig during my previous review of the latter (ML provided core feature scoring for roads but bonus for the rest of the features.)

The question you try to answer is if scoring for the Market of Leipzig is "core scoring for the feature" or "bonus scoring dissociated from the scored feature". Which imho doesn't have a clear answer.

I agree completely. This is the Gordian Knot of this issue and this decision is the one making the difference. Everything else will fall into place after this.

Wainwrights quarter +1 point for each road tile for the player with the majority on the road. Exactly like a finished Inn, or German Cathedral. Very much associated with the road (tiles.)

By definition seems core feature scoring (my first opinion during several months)

Coiners quarter +3 points for each coat of arms in a scored city in which you have at least one meeple (not neccesarily the majority).

Correct. It is a bonus since it may benefit players not scoring the feature at all: those just present in the city.

If Red and Yellow have a Meeple in Coiners quarter, and Red scores the city, the fact that Yellow also gets point, does not dissociate the points Red receives from the points from scoring the city. If there's a Witch on the city, I'm not convinced that the Witch is applied before the addition of the Coiners quarter bonus points.

I used the word "dissociate" to indicate that scoring the feature and getting bonus points are not linked. There are several cases that closing a feature triggers an additional scoring that may benefit the player with majority or other players. For example: 3 points from the fairy, the Watchtowers, Darmstadt churches bonus, the Ringmasters, the Gingerbread Man,...

For example: City with 3 pennants completed by Red with a mayor. In the city you have Yellow's large meeple and Green's Ringmaster next to the Fairy. Red and Yellow have a Meeple in Coiners quarter.
* Red scores the city and get the coiners bonus for the 3 pennants - Red has the majority with a mayor and 3 pennants.
* Yellow does not have the majority with a large Meeple so the player only gets points from the Coiners quarter for the 3 pennants.
* Green does not have the majority either but the Fairy next to his Meeple scores 3 points plus the Ringmaster points. These points are not associated to the city, they are just triggered by the completed city being scored.

This is the type of dissociation I'm talking about: Someone else's action makes you score points.

Therefore I consider these types of scoring events as bonus. The scoring player may get them or not along with other players. So they are not linked to the feature.

Bookbinders quarter A completed Monastery gives 9 points (most of the time) to the meeple on it, and with a meeple on Bookbinders quarter it gives +4 more points, also to other people not on the monastery but with a meeple on Bookbinders quarter. I don't see how the 4 points are Bookbinders dissociate. Furthermore a Witch can't be on a Monastery.

Again, the term "dissociation" indicates another player is scoring the points when it is not even on the scored feature. If you find the term too drastic you may suggest another word.

Tanners quarter Same as Bookbinders quarter, points associated with fields, and the Witch can't go on fields anyway.

Here the bonus it is associated to the feature, but fields do not score the feature based on tiles but on cities and on Exp. 8 castles. Markets of Leipzig works in this case similar to Little Buildings.

So for all of these scenarios, the scoring can be considered "core feature scoring".

For cities, monasteries and fields, Markets of Leipzig provides a bonus:
* In the case of cities and monasteries players may get extra points from features without the majority or even without their presence as with monasteries.
* Regarding fields, the core scoring is provided by the value assigned to each city/castle and all the modifiers applied to them: pigs, pigsties/pig-heards, sieges. After that, everything is a bonus (Little Buildings, Tanners quarter)

However, all of these can also be considered "bonus scoring dissociated from the scored feature".
That is, if you consider the actual Meeple, on the Market in Leipzig, doing the scoring. Which also makes a lot of sense. The Meeple on the road scores the core points, then the witch comes in, then the score from the meeple in Leipzig is added, then Little buildings "after everything else".

Bingo! I think we have a winner! This is a nice way to put it. This is my approach to the issue. Markets of Leipzig provides bonuses for all the features because your meeples in one or more quarters grant you that capability. Additionally, you may need to comply with extra requirements such as in the case of cities.

It would be so much easier if the Scoring from the Market of Leipzig was a seperate scoring event, like the Watchtowers.

Not necessarily. What we need is a clear definition.

Or if the Mage/Witch had the rule that they're applied last.

Well, Little Buildings spared us from this possibility.  ???

If we apply Occam's razor (simplest rule solution is the best) applying the Witch last is the best option(disregarding the rules on Little Buidings)...
((5 tiles * 4) +3 +1 +1)/2 = 12.5 -> 13

I wish it was this simple  >:D

Witch after road scoring but before Castle and Little Buildings would be less clear:
( (5 tiles * 4)/2 ) +3 +1 +1 = 15

This would be the case where Markets of Leipzig is considered a core feature scoring. My previous understanding.  ???

And Witch after Inns and Cathedrals but Before Markets of Leipzig, Castle and Little Buildings would be the hardest to explain to casual players daring to play Mega Carcassonne...
( (5 tiles * 3)/2 + (5 tiles * 1) +3 +1 +1 = 17.5 -> 18

This would be the case where Markets of Leipzig is considered a bonus. My current understanding.  :)

In short; Witch modifier between Inn/Cathedral road tile +1 bonus and Markets of Leipzig road tile +1 bonus will be really hard to explain to casual players. Which I think is the main reason against it. Unless the Meeple doing the Leipzig scoring was a seperate scoring event, offically dissociated from the road scoring, like the Watchtower.

The Meeple in Leipzig approach is easy to understand if it works the same for all the cases. That's my point.

You score a feature without taking into account Markets of Leipzig and once finished you add the bonus if applicable. In the case a completed road, you score it as usual (no Markets of Leipzig involved) and at the end, since you've been a good guy with a Meeple in the Wainwrights quarter, you add a bonus equal to the number of tiles of the road being scored. It is not so difficult.

So Markets of Leipzig bonus for roads cannot be considered an odd case. The Mage set a precedent here.
The Market of Leipzig scoring per tile being unprecedented or not is not an issue. And the Mage can't be on the same road as the Witch.

That's why I added a comment to indicate that that section works if the Mage and the Witch are not involved. I would need to rework that table as each row would have to include 3 cases: no modifiers, with Mage, with Witch.
Still, 4 points/tile is a bit misleading if one of the points is considered a bonus point and the other 3 are considered core feature points. The official rules only ever mention 0, 1, 2 or 3 points/tile.

3. Additional bonuses from other related features such as Little Buildings and so on.
Little Buildings are added to the score "after all others". So after other bonus features.
And the other bonus features (Castles in Germany, maybe Markets of Leipzig) are unclear about when they are added to the score, before or after the Witch for instance.

Just having a look at the Mage case, how you would apply the score modifier in the example attached below? (I was reserving it for another quiz but who cares!  ;D)

The Mage is placed on an uncompleted road at the end of the game. The Mage bonus is related to the number of tiles of the feature but it is not part of the core feature scoring. It is applied after a all-or-nothing scoring modifier... This is what I was referring to in my previous post when I was citing the MAge of an example of a bonus based on the number of tiles of a feature but not associated to its core feature scoring.

Check it out!

As a closing note, I think the bottomline is your paragraph above:

However, all of these can also be considered "bonus scoring dissociated from the scored feature".
That is, if you consider the actual Meeple, on the Market in Leipzig, doing the scoring. Which also makes a lot of sense. The Meeple on the road scores the core points, then the witch comes in, then the score from the meeple in Leipzig is added, then Little buildings "after everything else".

I think you see what I see now.

Let me know your thoughts!

Cheers!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 04:05:19 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2019, 12:58:03 AM »
When I started this quiz I was sharing the same thoughts about Markets of Leipzig and roads. I was assuming all modifiers of the value per tile would be part of the core feature scoring. This was and odd case as Markets of Leipzig behaves differently for all other features:

* Cities: it is not part of the core feature scoring as the bonus points go to those players with a meeple in the Coiners quarter and with at least a meeple in the city being scored. Majority in the city is not required, so this bonus is dissociated from the feature. Red is scoring the city but yellow can be getting the bonus points.
 
* Monasteries (and all other monastic buildings by extension): the bonus points are dissociated from the feature. You may get the bonus without a meeple in a monastery.

* Fields: This is a bonus similar to Little Buildings. So there is no discussion.

So under this scenario, Markets of Leipzig would affect the core feature scoring for roads but it would behave as a normal bonus for all the other features.


This analysis convinced me that the extra scoring for roads as a result of a meeple in the Wainwrights Quarter should be considered as a bonus scoring that happens after the core scoring.

However, all of these can also be considered "bonus scoring dissociated from the scored feature".
That is, if you consider the actual Meeple, on the Market in Leipzig, doing the scoring. Which also makes a lot of sense. The Meeple on the road scores the core points, then the witch comes in, then the score from the meeple in Leipzig is added, then Little buildings "after everything else".

I think this is indeed how the scoring should be considered.

So for Example 1, this would mean:
1. Watchtowers: 2 tiles containing a road => 2 points
2. Road: 5 tiles x 3 (Inn + German Cathedral) / 2 (Witch) => 8 points
3. Bonuses:  Markets of Leipzig => 5 points
                   Little Buildings => 2 points

Total: 17 points

For Example 2, the scoring is:
1. Road: 5 tiles (road with German Cathedral) x 0 (Inn) / 2 (Witch) => 0 points
2. Bonus: Little Buildings => 2 points

Total: 2 points

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2019, 02:25:07 AM »
Hi Vital Pluymers,

I'm glad we agree. It''s been a long journey for me to come to this conclusion.

One thing, Example 2 has a Mage, not a Witch. It was to illustrate a case where tile-based scoring is not part of the core feature scoring.

Cheers!

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2019, 03:17:44 AM »
Oops :-)

Then it would be:
1. Road: 5 tiles (road with German Cathedral) x 0 (Inn) => 0 points
2. Bonuses: Mage => 5 points
                  Little Buildings => 2 points

Total: 7 points

Offline benbever

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2019, 09:20:43 AM »
I have no problem with Markets of Leipzig counting as bonus score whatsoever. The only negative I see is in how the scoring mechanism for roads is so very similar to Inns and German Cathedrals. But the rules in the rulebooklets are already different; Wainwright Quarter gives +1 bonus point per road tile, Inns give 2 points per road tile, German Cathedrals give 2 points per road tile, and Inn+German Cathedral gives 3 points per road tile. The "+1" is a different mechanic than "gives 2 points".

The points from the other quarters of Leipzig are easily understood as bonus points. And by using these as an example, and the Meeple in Leipzig, or Leipzig itself, doing the scoring for the player, it's pretty easy to explain.
tbh I would be equally happy if all these scores were core feature scores (ie before the witch) but the most important thing is a community consensus (by lack of an official ruling).

As for the 2nd "puzzle":
The road is worth 0 at games end, but it is scored. Mage adds +1/tile so +5 points. Little houses are worth their normal value at the final counting so 2 x +1. Total 7 points.

So here's another one:


from the rules:

Special rule when scoring a road, unlike the rules of the base game, for a road starting and ending on the same Land tile showing a cathedral, you count and score each section of the road separately - i.e. that tile counts twice.

When using Inns and Cathedrals, for each closed road with an Inn that leads to a cathedral, you get 3 instead of 2 points for each road tile.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 09:22:19 AM by benbever »

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2019, 10:15:44 AM »
So here's another one:


from the rules:

Special rule when scoring a road, unlike the rules of the base game, for a road starting and ending on the same Land tile showing a cathedral, you count and score each section of the road separately - i.e. that tile counts twice.

When using Inns and Cathedrals, for each closed road with an Inn that leads to a cathedral, you get 3 instead of 2 points for each road tile.

For the sake of consistency, I believe the Cathedral tile should be counted twice as well when calculating the Wainwright Quarter bonus.
So, 5 points x 3 (Inns and German Cathedral), plus 5 points for the Markets of Leipzig. Total 20 points.

Offline benbever

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Re: Scoring quiz with roads
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2019, 11:19:43 AM »
How about this one:


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