Author Topic: Big Boxes  (Read 14403 times)

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2015, 03:06:14 PM »
I argued very early on that Big Boxes should be companions to each other. I had never played Carcassonne back in 2007 when I first purchased Big Box (1). It included the first four expansions plus The River, and I was thrilled with it. The only things it was missing were the three extant minis (River II, Count, King & Scout) and GQ11. Abbey & Mayor released a few months later and I picked that up, and then I remember being really bitter about King, Count & Cult not being made available by RGG. Nonetheless, I bought copies of that and The Catapult while in the UK, and Wheel of Fortune as soon as it came out in English the next year. I also picked up Cathars in the UK, since I could actually convince a German seller to send it to me in Britain.

The original Big Box was the best of the series because it included the first four expansions. When Bridges, Castles & Bazaars came out, there were finally four more expansions and a second base game, so I felt it was time to release a companion to the first Big Box. Granted, two had already released in the meantime, but I still felt the first Big Box was the best. We now have enough for a third due to the Carcassonne minis and other official promos. The series should be:

Big Box (1): Carcassonne, Inns & Cathedrals, Traders & Builders, Princess & Dragon, and The Tower (plus The River as a bonus) – 174 tiles

Big Box 2: Wheel of Fortune, Abbey & Mayor, KC&C, The Catapult, BC&B, The Besiegers, The German Monasteries, The Corn Circles I, and The German Castles (plus The Phantom as a bonus) - 164 tiles (counting German Castles as 1 tile each)

Big Box 3: Carcassonne 10th Anniversary (probably re-themed, includes The Celebration), Hills & Sheep, Carcassonne Minis 1-7, Halflings II, and The River III (plus The Wind Roses as a bonus) – 178 tiles (counting Halflings as 0.5 tile each)

I think the first two boxes would be highly popular while the last would be a bit more niche.  Every official Hans im Glück expansion would be covered (not counting those expansions released by distributors). It would pretty much be the best trio of collections ever, and the only repeat would be Carcassonne in the first and third boxes.

Offline loki

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2015, 06:27:11 PM »
Since Dan  split this topic off into a separate Big Box thread I thought I would take the opportunity to repeat my main issue with big box 5.  I think that adding the 7 & 8th  colours but not including the wagon, mayor and barn Meeples was a cheap move.      >:(

Like most players I keep my tiles separated by expansion but I see no issue with playing the Mayor, Barn  or wagon even if I am not playing the Abbey and Mayor tiles.  I can perhaps understand why phantoms were not released in pink and purple as a production run in translucent acrylic may have been too expensive but a coat of the right paint for the wooden Meeples  should not have been a problem.  Including the rules for the extra Meeples would have been a minor issue.

Has anyone tried repainting spare wagons, barns and mayors in the new colours.

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2015, 07:18:38 PM »
Not that they're as important, but Big Box 5 also left out the FeMeeple and Robber from CarcMinis. I think they should have included Abbey & Mayor in the expansion regardless. It seems each Big Box has been getting smaller than the previous. There was room for Abbey & Mayor.

Offline Paul

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2015, 11:37:13 PM »
Not that they're as important, but Big Box 5 also left out the FeMeeple and Robber from CarcMinis. I think they should have included Abbey & Mayor in the expansion regardless. It seems each Big Box has been getting smaller than the previous. There was room for Abbey & Mayor.

I agree.

They know about the previous expansions and they know many of us already owning them is going to buy this big box and thus should know to include all figures in all colours.

As mentioned earlier in this forum, the big boxes are becoming poorer with content each release.
World record holder for a single game of Carcassonne using 10 007 tiles!

Offline Hounk

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2015, 02:32:42 AM »
I bought BB4, although BB5 had been available at that time, but the expansions seemed more interesting and harder to get then the ones from BB5. Well I was wrong regarding the "harder to get" point, but I still think the Minis are much more interesting then WoT, although I've never played with that one. A point, I also took into consideration was, that I assumed, that the 7th and 8th colour would only feature the expansions included, and you might lack then of wood in the same colour of other expansions, once you add them to the collection. With hindsight, I do regret my pick a little bit, but just because of the production issue, that all the tiles are darker and thinner then regular Carc-tiles. Also the "River 3" I would have liked to get, although I would have preferred it with starter tile backs.

Regarding the mayor and wagon, you do have to consider, people, for whom the BB is a starting point. For them, it would have been extremely awkward, to get just two colour sets of that kind of wood. And including full sets in 8 colours of wagon and mayor would have in principle meant, that they would have included "half the expansion" of A&M into the box. So people who afterwards want it full, would have been forced to buy A&M just for the tiles. (And still get only 6 Abbeys, unless two extra Abbeys would have been included in BB.)

Offline loki

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2015, 06:43:08 AM »
There are plenty of issues with Carcassonne relating to how all of the expansions work together, the S-CAR has done an an excellent job of attempting (and mostly succeeding) to resolve them.  The pressing issue of how to accommodate a 7th & 8th player is not one of them, in fact most of the comments I have seen on this website suggest that too many players can spoil the game as all of turns take too long to complete.  The preferred suggestion seems to be that it is best to split into 2 groups of 3-4 and play separate games.

So why after 15 years they find the need to include 2 new colours is beyond me.   But to add only some of Meeples in new colours but not all just seems silly.  The could have included pink and purple for the other Meeples and included a suggestion that this was to accommodate the players who already had Abbey and Mayor or new players who may wish to purchase this expansion at a later date.  Of course the fact that they are also discontinuing the Abbey and Mayor expansion is unfortunate.

HiG must be aware of the large number of dedicated players who consider that collecting a “complete set” of everything is part of the game's attraction.  So to put this deliberate “hole” in everyone's Meeple collection is just perverse.  :(n) :(n)

Offline Hounk

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2015, 06:55:24 AM »
But for the "dedicated player" there is always CundCo. There you can buy any supplement meeples you are missing and wanting in the colour of your pick, or choose a different colour and buy it complete. I don't have BB, but I also have 8 colour sets. I did not pick purple and pink, but purple and white. What I do agree is, that they should offer ready sets at a discount price of supplement meeples (mayor, wagon, barn, female meeple & robber) in purple and pink for the BB5 buyers there, though. (Preferable, but not necessarily, with 2 additional Abbeys, additional Tower Pieces, Bridges, Castles, etc.)

If you split a big group of players into two games of three to four played at the same time, you still need a second base game, and therefore have plenty of meeples for 2 games. So that is not a purpose of need for the extra colours.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 07:06:05 AM by Hounk »

Offline loki

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2015, 07:06:00 AM »
The fact that the additional colours for the mayor barn and wagon actually have been produced and cundco are selling them just makes it more annoying

Offline Hounk

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2015, 07:07:40 AM »
What about the femeeples and robbers?

Offline loki

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2015, 07:22:51 AM »
What about the femeeples and robbers?

To be honest I do not have a high opinion of any of the mini expansions though I do agree that for completeness those meeples should be included but the Abbey and Mayor ones are essential.

Offline Hounk

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2015, 01:57:41 PM »
Well, I think, it's a little bit of musing over spilled milk. But probably, what was suggested by whaleyland and Paul, would have been the best way of addressing this problem: adding A&M completely (all wood, all tiles) to BB5, probably even with 2 extra Abbeys. Because I can't do anything then repeat myself: adding just the 2 extra colours of Mayors, Wagons and Barns would have been really awkward.

Offline Paul

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2015, 02:03:53 PM »
I was only reffering to the 7th and 8th colours myself. And then they would add a little fun note in the rules that they are for those owning previous expansions because they care. Then anyone not owning previous expansions can buy them at their ledare.  :(y)

I was walking carrying a lot of stuff when I realised we need 7th and 8th Abbey tile as well. Figure I correct myself and agree with adding those as well.  :yellow-meeple:
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 02:26:07 PM by Paul »

Offline loki

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2015, 02:18:31 PM »
Well, I think, it's a little bit of musing over spilled milk. But probably, what was suggested by whaleyland and Paul, would have been the best way of addressing this problem: adding A&M completely (all wood, all tiles) to BB5, probably even with 2 extra Abbeys. Because I can't do anything then repeat myself: adding just the 2 extra colours of Mayors, Wagons and Barns would have been really awkward.

You are correct, I am losing absolutely no sleep over this, just shaking my head a little and it gives me something to complain about.


Offline jungleboy

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2015, 09:10:56 AM »
Cool discussion. Let's see if I can catch up!

I've always seen the Big Boxes as a good starting point for new players.

I agree, but I think BB5 was a bit of a departure from this and they hedged their bets by trying to make a Big Box to appeal to both new players and fanatics. Things like 7th/8th followers and a variation on the River aren't really things that new players would typically need or be interested in, but they are things that fanatics would want. Of course, there were loads of other things in BB5 that fanatics would already have, so I think they had a bet each way here and the end result was a bit confusing.

I don't know how they choose which expansions go into each box, or whether there's consideration for which expansions work best together (BB5 seems to suggest that there is) but I suppose there has to be a limit somewhere and you can't just pack everything in.

Well they all have base + I&C + T&B, and then the most recent expansions are added to that - so I think that's pretty much the extent of the thought process.

The idea of putting exclusive expansions into Big Boxes is a confusing one, but isn't the official line that it's just a slightly modified version of River 1 that comes with BB5 rather than an actual new expansion? It's only the completionist sickos like us who would consider buying an entire Big Box just for a slightly different set of tiles that we already have! :o

Right, but that's the point, isn't it? Putting a couple of exclusive things in a big box full of things that fanatics already have forces those fanatics to buy everything, which is frustrating when they already own have most of what's in the box.

I argued very early on that Big Boxes should be companions to each other.

I like your idea of three complimentary big boxes. But to be honest, I think some of us here and you in particular put more effort into thinking about the commercial strategy of the game than the people who publish it. I honestly don't think there's any kind of grand plan regarding the future of the game, and I don't think there has ever been one. Last year in particular, when they released a mini-expansion with a new abbot figure, and then released a completely different and unrelated abbot figure a few months later, is a prime example of the lack of long-term thinking. Equally, they published Hills and Sheep and then seemed to bet heavily on it by including its features in the new River and in the Halflings, and then seemingly got bored of it overnight and published a new edition of the game that no one likes, which they are now betting on. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see them do another about-face on this and suddenly publish a new major expansion in the old artwork.

To be honest I do not have a high opinion of any of the mini expansions though I do agree that for completeness those meeples should be included but the Abbey and Mayor ones are essential.


I think Mage & Witch and the Ferries are cool, and while I was turned off by the dice aspect of the Flier originally, I have come around on it and I think it's a worthwhile mini-expansion as well. I haven't played the other three. The goldmines could be interesting but the other two have no appeal for me.

Offline ARabidMeerkat

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Re: Big Boxes
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2015, 03:09:43 AM »
I get the sense that so many of us are annoyed not really with the content of the Big Boxes (because we could just buy the expansions ourselves from places like Cundco, BGG, Amazon and Ebay and we should remember how fortunate it is that we have BB's to buy, unlike with other board games where people have to spend years searching for expansions or may never find them) but because of how they don't seem to really differ too much for the collectors in us.

I agree with many of you who simply say that these aren't designed for the collectors but for new players. Yes BB5 did have WOF (which has created some annoyance), but in theory everyone who had been playing Carcassonne beforehand who had bought a previous BB or not could have a least got hold of a copy of WOF (or could have done so in theory) within that time. This BB gives new players the opportunity to get hold of an expansion that is now almost out of print and build their collection from there.

I think they have all been brilliant and have been perfectly designed for the new players coming out at those times of release. BB4 was mine and my wife's collection starter and it couldn't have been any better, since it had the mini's which are very hard to get hold of today (being designed, therefore, for the new players at that current time). I haven't seen anyone talk much about Big Box 4 and how the expansions seem almost 'exclusive' to that one?

Just treat the BB's as starters for new players at that present time rather than those for collectors who have been around for a few years beforehand. If you were a true collector, you would spend your time looking for the expansions rather than grinding your axe about what BB's didn't bring to Carcassonne and to you (even if that means WOF).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 03:12:53 AM by ARabidMeerkat »
If only I had another Halfling.....


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