some question...

[aenima]

hi all... I'm new here 
and I have 2 quesions!
1- what appned when in a same tourn a player put a tile that close his city with his builder and making point he drow a dispatch tile with wich he can replay? can he play 3 times?
2- according with the CAR, builders and pigs are not follower... but what appned when the plague is in play? are they kill by the plague as normal follower?

thanx!

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=456.0

[Lotas]

Hi aenima, welcome to the site.  I'm new here too.

Let's see...

1) As far as I know, yes, you can play three times in that situation.

2) And yes, they're all "killed".  Not the barn though I don't think.

[Lotas]

That second one makes me thoughtful though.  Does the plague "kill" pieces like the fairy or the dragon or the witch?

Anybody know?  I've only used the Plague with the base game, no other expansions.

[Leven]

According to CAR "the plague does not affect the dragon or other neutral figures".
(The fairy and the witch are also neutral figures.)

[aenima]

ok, thanx...
yes, the CAR said so, but plague's rules said "any follower are killed" and for the CAR, pigs and builder are not follower... :/

[Lotas]

I've always thought of the builder as a follower, though if there's an official ruling I haven't honestly read it.

And thanks Leven for the clarification.

[kettlefish]

hi all... I'm new here 
and I have 2 quesions!
1- what appned when in a same tourn a player put a tile that close his city with his builder and making point he drow a dispatch tile with wich he can replay? can he play 3 times?

Hi aenima,
welcome to CarcC.
With your first question, we should have a clear answer for you.

Here comes the same problem with the builder and the messages (dispatches).
I am not sure what you meant with "...can he play 3 times?" - perhaps you meant the action of the dispatch. Please look at this example and the explanation:

Clarification of rules - Call with HiG - 14 01 2013

The Builder and the Dispatches:

Question 2:
When I finish, for example, a city with a builder, and the counting follower lands on a dark number field, is only then the dispatch to the use (and possibly even more dispatches at favorable scoring) and then the turn because of the builder of the second tile?
In other words:
Which of the rules
A (dispatch): ?The active player (and only that player) gets a Dispatch tile if one of his two counting followers lands on a dark number field (0, 5, 10, 15,...).?
B (builder): ?On the next turn or a later turn, whenever the player places a tile that extends the road or city (with the builder), he then immediately draws a second tile and places it (this is the double turn and can only be performed once).?
takes precedence?
----------

Answer to Question 2: Builder - double turn - Dispatch
The BigBox4 says the following about the double turn by builders:
Whenever a player places a tile that extends the road or city which includes his builder, he may take a double turn. Here, after performing the usual steps of deployment and scoring, the player draws another land tile, places it appropriately, and may then deploy another follower and carry out any necessary scoring. Then his turn ends.
BigBox4 has the following comment about the dispatches:
For each scoring round, the player gets only one dispatch ....
From the builder you have two scoring rounds.
If after the first scoring round a scoring figure of the active player lands on a dark field, he receives a dispatch. The active player performs the action of the dispatch.
Only then does the double turn happen.
As a more practical example, the player should first draw the second tile of the double turn immediately after the first scoring round, place the tile face down in his supply, then perform the dispatches-action, then turn over the face-down tile and place it. Then move wood and perform scoring. If the scoring figure is on a dark field again, the player again obtains a dispatch and performs its action.
Anyhow, that is it what I'm reading by the rules - so far, the question is not asked, so I still have not inquired further (at HiG)

obervet03 helped me with the translation

Now it is official (telephone call with HiG- Georg Wild)

There are two scoring rounds through the double turn with the builder. After each scoring round you can get a dispatch and then perform the dispatches action. In this case are two Dispatches possible.

If you play with the fairy. Then you can get after scoring the 1 point for the fairy a Dispatch and can perform the dispatch action.

I like more the name Dispatches than Messages. The name dispatch is near the German word (Depesche) than message (Nachricht).

[kettlefish]

I've always thought of the builder as a follower, though if there's an official ruling I haven't honestly read it.

And thanks Leven for the clarification.

Builders and pigs are not followers, these figures are special figures for each player.

You can find the clarification of figures in the rules of the BigBoxes, also you can find the game figures in the S-CAR 6.3 - page 156:
- follower
- special figure
- neutral figure

2- according with the CAR, builders and pigs are not follower... but what appned when the plague is in play? are they kill by the plague as normal follower?
thanx!

The plague and the builder / pig:

example 1:
The follower (as a thief) stands together with the builder on a road. Then the plague lands on the same tile where the follower stands.
The follower goes back to that players supply. If the player has no more followers on the same road, the builder goes also back to that players supply, because the builder can't stand alone on the road.
The same is with the follower (as a knight) and builder in a city. Also the same is with the follower (as a farmer) on a field and the pig.

example 2:
The follower (as a thief) stands together with the builder on a road. Then the plague lands on the same tile where the builder stands.
Does the builder go back to that players supply?
We never got any answer from Spielbox. I hope that I will get this year an answer at Spiel 2013 in Essen.

[kettlefish]

...
2) And yes, they're all "killed".  Not the barn though I don't think.

The plague and the barn:

The barn is a special figure.
The plague affects the whole tile.
The problem here is following: The barn stands between 4 tiles.

The question here is:
Does the plague affect the barn although the barn doesn't stand on a whole tile?
I prefer the answer: NO, because the barn is not on a specific tile - it's beween 4 tiles.
I never get an answer from Spielbox - perhaps this year at Spiel 2013 in Essen.

[kettlefish]

hi all... I'm new here 
and I have 2 quesions!
1- what appned when in a same tourn a player put a tile that close his city with his builder and making point he drow a dispatch tile with wich he can replay? can he play 3 times?

Hi aenima,
welcome to CarcC.
With your first question, we should have a clear answer for you.

Here comes the same problem with the builder and the messages (dispatches).
I am not sure what you meant with "...can he play 3 times?"

excurse - example:
the new placed tile is extending the city with the builder in it (the city is still not closed) and is closing a road where you have also a follwer in it. You receive a message / dispatch.
In this case the message / dispatch No. 7.

Really interesting is this case if you draw the dispatch / message No 7.
This is the action of the message /dispatch No 7:
There you can draw and place another tile and place a figure if you like.
In this example the new placed tile extended the city with the builder in it and maybe a next possible double turn take place? That is a great question...

[aenima]

well... according with what is write on the big box rules I suppose that:
1) place a tile that close my city with my builder;
2) put my follower and the builder in my supply;
3) thake my point that bring my follower on the scoreboard on the black
4) thake the dispatch (it is the 7th "one tile") and perform it immediately so:
    4a) drow a tile and play it normally
    4b) finish my "one tile" tourn
5) drow the tile from the builder's effect in point 1)

I think this is the correct way to play... aaaand ahahah I smile because meanwhile I was writing I was thinking another thing:
what happen if in point 4a) I put in play the builder and in point 5) I put a tile on the builder's element?

[aenima]

2- according with the CAR, builders and pigs are not follower... but what appned when the plague is in play? are they kill by the plague as normal follower?
thanx!

The plague and the builder / pig:

example 1:
The follower (as a thief) stands together with the builder on a road. Then the plague lands on the same tile where the follower stands.
The follower goes back to that players supply. If the player has no more followers on the same road, the builder goes also back to that players supply, because the builder can't stand alone on the road.
The same is with the follower (as a knight) and builder in a city. Also the same is with the follower (as a farmer) on a field and the pig.

example 2:
The follower (as a thief) stands together with the builder on a road. Then the plague lands on the same tile where the builder stands.
Does the builder go back to that players supply?
We never got any answer from Spielbox. I hope that I will get this year an answer at Spiel 2013 in Essen.
[/quote]

so... is not specified if pigs and builder are killed by the plague    
but I think yes... the builder figure is still an human!

[kettlefish]

Yes I see it - please don't use special symbols.

[aenima]

ok... Reply #10 is change...
read it because is interesting! 

[aenima]

damn... I forgot another question...
playing the plague with builders and messengers can I put or move the flea tokens every time I play (with the builder's replay or with "one tile" dispach's replay) or just one time?