Author Topic: A(nother) Carcassonne League?  (Read 18479 times)

Offline danisthirty

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A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« on: November 17, 2016, 08:00:49 AM »
Hi all,

Even though I recently handed over my competition organising responsibilities to MrNumbers, I'm already toying with the idea of a much more long-term Carcassonne league as we haven't done anything with just the basic tiles for a long time and it could be run in parallel with any other competitions that are being run at the same time.

Whilst I'm aware that basic Carcassonne can lack the thrill and excitement of Carcassonne + expansions for some people (myself excluded), all of our major competitions since the 2014 league have involved expansions in some capacity. Considering that all national competitions and the world championships use just the basic 72 tiles, I wanted to provide an opportunity for the purists among us (as well as those who simply want to brush up on their core skills) to benefit from the wealth of experience and different styles of play demonstrated by the community of online players here at CarcC, and to see how they compare against some of our top players.

Here is a quick overview of the rules as I see it working:

1. All league participants will get to play two basic games against everyone else in the league. So assuming there are 30 participants, everyone will play 58 games split across 29 rounds where each round consists of two games against a single opponent. As stated above, no expansions will be used at any stage of the competition.

2. The league will be "paced", by which I mean that fixtures for each round (who is playing who) will be announced only when the previous round has completed. Rounds will last for up to two weeks or until all games in the round have been played, and any games that have not been played by the end of the round will be forfeited (this is how our 2014 league was run albeit with a slightly different scoring system).

3. The league will be a long-term commitment; if 26 (or more) players sign up to take part there will be at least 25 rounds. With each round lasting 2 weeks, this is already 50 weeks/ almost a year. With this in mind, taking part in the league won't exclude you from any other competitions and it won't delay or hold any other competitions up either, as you'll be able to play in this alongside anything else that is taking place.

4. Every match that you play will include a Home game (you place the first tile) and an Away game (your opponent places the first tile).

5. Overall rank in the league will be determined by number of games won, then games drawn, then PD (points difference).

Keen to hear any feedback from people who would be keen to sign up to something like this, or if you have any suggestions for modifying the format?

Thanks,
Dan

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2969.0

Offline Leven

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 08:29:42 AM »
5. Overall rank in the league will be determined by number of games won, then games drawn, then PD (points difference).
I would rather suggest giving the usual points (2 for winning and 1 for a draw) after the games played.
In my opinion 27 victories + 3 draws is worth more than 28 victories and 2 defeats.

By the way, I'm in.  :)
(Though I'm a bit afraid that this kind of championship will never get to the end...)

Offline danisthirty

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 08:33:34 AM »
5. Overall rank in the league will be determined by number of games won, then games drawn, then PD (points difference).
I would rather suggest giving the usual points (2 for winning and 1 for a draw) after the games played.
In my opinion 27 victories + 3 draws is worth more than 28 victories and 2 defeats.

Good point. I agree! :(y)

(Though I'm a bit afraid that this kind of championship will never get to the end...)

I think the fact that each round will have a hard end date should help to ensure that things keep moving in the right direction, even if it takes a long time to complete. That's my intention anyway.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 11:22:49 AM »
I like the idea a league with only the base game. But I don't think it would be useful to play a league for around a year. And with possible 30 participants - all the people can't go to holiday from CarcC  - how should this work?

The x-score list is not fine to "read" - my thoughts are to play in smaller groups (5 participants = 6 groupsor 6 participants in 5 groups)

The league will get so many rounds that all player are possible to play against each other in total.
But this time the first who finish their group will play with the first of the other groups...


Offline ny1050220

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2016, 11:33:38 AM »
But this time the first who finish their group will play with the first of the other groups...
Theoretically, there may be a tie in who finishes the first. ;)

Offline Leven

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 12:29:47 PM »
And with possible 30 participants - all the people can't go to holiday from CarcC  - how should this work?
Actually I would be highly surprised if there would be 30 participants considering that neither the current the world cup nor our recent leagues had such a high attendance.

Offline Rosco

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2016, 03:18:33 PM »
Why not just provide a list of all games for each person with a play by date beside each game.  If someone completes all their games early then good for them.

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Offline Rosco

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2016, 03:18:46 PM »
I am in btw

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Offline Jéré

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A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 01:43:18 AM »
Very good idea. I'm in!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 12:20:47 PM by Jéré »

Offline jungleboy

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 06:58:48 AM »
Hi all,

Good luck with the league!

I will opt out for a few reasons which I can summarise by saying that I am not nearly as obsessed with Carcassonne as I once was and in any case I prefer shorter competitions with expansions rather than longer ones with just the base game. Also, next year I will be all over the place so I might not be as available as I have been in the past.

Offline danisthirty

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 07:59:08 AM »
Thanks for the comments and feedback everyone. Here are some of my own thoughts/ justifications for why I've suggested the proposed format:

Paced Rounds
Most of the competitions we've run this year (and last) have suffered from a similar problem whereby some people rush through all their games and get them played as quickly as possible, and others don't. Whilst waiting for everyone to catch up can be frustrating, I've often felt like there is too much of an emphasis on getting things over and done with as quickly as possible which isn't really the point. The difference with this league is that everyone will have a fair chance to play everyone else without demonising the slower/ busier players unless they fail to play a single match within the two week timeframe. If this happens they will be penalised with a loss by default, but then the slate is wiped clean and we all move on to the next round.

Furthermore, I want everyone to progress at the same rate as the competition unfolds more gradually this way, with everyone taking an equal interest in the most recent match results and what effect they have on the overall standings as we go. It isn't especially easy to describe, but there's more of a “closeness” between competitors this way as we're all participating together rather than doing our own thing individually.

Single Group
Whilst I've always tried to arrange groups as evenly as possible in our previous competitions, there's usually at least one group that seems to have more than its fair share of highly-skilled players compared to other groups. And even after nine competitions, there are still plenty of other regular players who I've only played once or twice, or in some cases never at all. The idea of there being one big group means that nobody has an easier route to the top (or the bottom) than anyone else because everyone gets to play against everyone. And whilst I won't suggest that this is the only solution to the problems with the group system described above, I am suggesting that it could be fun and a bit different to hold a competition which isn't focussed on speed of completion. What's more, more games means more experience and fun, which can only be a good thing!

Holidays
With a time frame of two weeks per round, someone going on holiday could quite feasibly play one match at the start of a round and their next towards the end of the following round (depending on their opponent's availability) and still have three and a half weeks off in between. That seems quite reasonable to me, but if players are away for prolonged periods during which they don't have access to a laptop there's always the possibility of playing via the Android or iOS apps.

I will opt out for a few reasons which I can summarise by saying that I am not nearly as obsessed with Carcassonne as I once was and in any case I prefer shorter competitions with expansions rather than longer ones with just the base game. Also, next year I will be all over the place so I might not be as available as I have been in the past.

It won't be the same without you JB... :(

Offline Halfling

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 10:41:19 AM »
The paced nature and hard deadlines are rules that should be applied to all future competitions.

I'm in.
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Offline MrNumbers

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2016, 11:45:11 AM »
It goes without saying - I am in! :red-meeple:
"I never lose. Either I win or I learn." (Nelson Mandela)

Offline Rich_The_Fish

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 01:36:18 PM »
Me too, I'm in. I like the idea of playing against so many competitors (before I get knocked out)

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Offline danisthirty

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Re: A(nother) Carcassonne League?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2016, 04:06:23 PM »
Me too, I'm in. I like the idea of playing against so many competitors (before I get knocked out)

No knocking out Rich so you'll be in it until the end!

Players so far:
  • Dan
  • Leven
  • Rosco
  • Jéré
  • Halfling
  • MrNumbers
  • Rich_The_Fish


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