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Carc Central Community => News and Events => Topic started by: NGC 54 on March 30, 2020, 02:50:39 AM

Title: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: NGC 54 on March 30, 2020, 02:50:39 AM
https://cundco.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/322/sCategory/47
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Sinscerly on March 30, 2020, 03:19:25 AM
Awesome, hope they answer all the questions that are still raised. For combination with other expansions.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Halfling on March 30, 2020, 06:30:51 AM
Guess I ought to purchase these  :)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: DrMeeple on March 30, 2020, 06:43:07 AM
Meepledrone will be happy for this hahaha
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Murphy013 on March 30, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
Of course. He started already the search for the rules. ;-) At CundCo and CarcF are no rules available yet.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: DrMeeple on March 30, 2020, 08:27:33 AM
Meepledrone will clarify us C2 stuff, not HiG and we know that  ;D
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on March 30, 2020, 02:56:18 PM
Are you sure?

My knees are shaking waiting for the revampted rules... I suspect they will replicate the C1 rules... Will they have updated the rules and the scoring examples to match the clarifications by Georg Wild? Will 1 tile = 1 point?

Guys, make your bets!  >:D
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: supertopix on March 30, 2020, 03:53:22 PM
What is this?
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on March 30, 2020, 04:49:03 PM
An Easter surprise, I presume...  :o
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Whaleyland on March 30, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
Awesome news but I won't be able to get this until the postal restrictions are lifted in New Zealand. It's basically impossible to receive non-essential goods right now. My cynical side also things that none of the rules corrections will be addressed by this expansion, which is funny since this is the first Carc 2.0 expansion to include elements from previous expansions, so the usual "intended for use only with the base game" line won't work. From what I can tell, all the elements are there, including sheep, vineyards, hills, and neutral corn circles. I'm kind of surprised, in fact, that Halfings 2 is getting re-released rather than Halflings 1 (which, granted, was a Spielbox release, but clearly done in cooperation with Hans im Glück). The logo itself shows a "2" on it, so maybe Spielbox will also be re-releasing Halflings 1 in the next issue. I will certainly get a copy when I am able to, but that may be a few months yet. Experience has taught me not to wait for December for items like this, even though that would make it easier to get ¢25 worth of stuff for the Spiel '20 tile.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Mikeagan on March 30, 2020, 10:03:37 PM
I'm kind of surprised, in fact, that Halfings 2 is getting re-released rather than Halflings 1

They are BOTH back: Halfings I and Halfings II. This time together in just one mini expansion and of course in the new design for €4.99. Both mini-expansions are new editions of the Halfings tiles, which were first released in 2014.

I will certainly get a copy when I am able to, but that may be a few months yet. Experience has taught me not to wait for December for items like this, even though that would make it easier to get ¢25 worth of stuff for the Spiel '20 tile.

I think I will be wanting to get these as well. Do you really think that it will sell out by the time December arrives? I have had no trouble with getting other mini expansions I wanted in the past.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Whaleyland on March 30, 2020, 11:50:21 PM
I did not notice that both Halflings were included but I see and read that now. Much better. I still doubt the rules will be corrected, though. I haven't had problems getting the Carc 2.0 mini expansions even after a few years (I didn't jump on the bandwagon right away), but there were always problems getting the Carc 1.0 mini expansions—they were frequently out for a while, came back for a while, and then out again.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 12:57:06 AM
You can inspect closely the image on cundco.de (click it to zoom in below) and you can see the spiral on the left is Halfling I and the one on the right is Halfling II. I'm excited.

(https://cundco.de/media/image/72/32/3b/Carc_Halb_2020_Bild.jpg)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Sinscerly on March 31, 2020, 03:24:27 AM
BE CAREFULL!!!!

Normal shipping cost with Deutsche Post came for me on €300,-. There is an option for delivery to EU for 10.95!
If you order first without a minimum of €25,- or something, I wasn't able to order at all.
After that I was able to change the shipping inside the checkout. Went back and could put less in my order.


I will wait till I can order for only an envelope.  O0
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Murphy013 on March 31, 2020, 03:57:46 AM
Please give CundCo a message to fix this issue.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 31, 2020, 04:35:19 AM
I can confirm, to my country was able only to order package more than 31,5 kg ;-)
 :red-meeple:
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: dronedrone on March 31, 2020, 05:06:04 AM
Quote
Normal shipping cost with Deutsche Post came for me on €300,

Hi all - I got a warning message re wheigt (sic) limit and queried it with CundCo

Reply follows:

I am very sorry. We have made a server update and it seems there are still some issues on our webpage. Please can you try it again on Thursday/Friday. We really hope everything will be fine then.

Best regards
Simone Statz
Carcassonne & Co GmbH

-----------------

Looks like we need to be patient...
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 31, 2020, 05:52:15 AM
I can confirm problem with server, becaouse was more than one our down in maintanance mode and than up and down again.
Hopefully they will solve it. Funny thing is that I gought Half So Wild I last week ago of course on old design.
So we will have 36 halfs ;-)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2020, 05:58:33 AM
I submitted the my order last night and changed the Shipping Method to Paket - Europäische Union later and got the usual €12.95 in my case. I ordered some more stuff so I didn't come across the minimum purchase threshold.

Don't tell me anything about getting too many Halflings. I recently got some sets to experiment with them and now we have C2 Halflings. Amazing!
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: TheDoctor_13 on March 31, 2020, 08:22:12 PM
Oh that's interesting. I heard about these but I have no idea how they play. I hope they don't sell out super quickly, I'll have something to stick in my Spiel'20 tile order to help get to the threshold.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: DaFees on March 31, 2020, 11:17:24 PM
Alright, I think I done did something wrong. I tried to place an order for just this new expansion. During check out I was presented to options “online bank transfer” and “bank transfer.” The online option took me to a place I did recognize and ultimately did not seem to apply to me. So I opted instead for the regular option. I thought it would take me to PayPal. It didn’t. Apparently I have a placed order with an invoice that includes banking details. I have no idea what I need to do from here. I’ve just been so use to being directed to PayPal to pay for the order then being sent back to cundco to finalize the order.

Does anyone have any advice on my next step, noting like some I don’t speak German. I’ve sent an email to cundco just in case.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: DIN0 on April 01, 2020, 01:40:27 AM
Oh no :o new watermarks.... now I guess I have to buy it  ::)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: dronedrone on April 01, 2020, 03:07:10 AM
Quote
Does anyone have any advice on my next step, noting like some I don’t speak German. I’ve sent an email to cundco just in case.
Hi DaFees - I had the same problem, expecting to be able to pay with PayPal and also sent an email.   I have since discovered how to pay through online banking and made my purchase.   I will send you a PM.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Halfling on April 01, 2020, 03:53:25 AM
If they are not accepting PayPal any more then I won't be ordering again.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Murphy013 on April 01, 2020, 04:20:58 AM
Hi guys,

Please look at the previously message of CundCo. They are working on that issue and I’m sure that it will again soon. Of course with PayPal.

Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: NGC 54 on April 01, 2020, 07:10:52 AM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XuO2Pcgpo4pz1veJleJtrq8CWpK373Bi/view
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Brickmaster92 on April 01, 2020, 08:30:51 AM
I ordered through the mobile version of the site on my phone and Paypal was an option there, fyi.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Sinscerly on April 01, 2020, 09:30:34 AM
I just tested it, seems like it's working again :) ;D
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 01, 2020, 12:02:44 PM
I just checked the payment methods in my account at Cundco.de and Paypal is available. But by default (don't ask me why) the online bank transfer is preselected.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: danisthirty on April 01, 2020, 04:41:05 PM
I noticed the problem with the missing PayPal option when I tried to order earlier this week. I don't know if it's still the case now but some experimentation revealed that it was only missing the PayPal option if I was browsing the English language version of the site. If I put it in German (and relied instead on Google translate) then the option to pay through PayPal was available.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: cidervampire on April 02, 2020, 05:22:15 PM
Hopefully they’ve sorted the rules out. Even without any other expansions there were just too many questions
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: supertopix on April 03, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XuO2Pcgpo4pz1veJleJtrq8CWpK373Bi/view
Are these the official rules?
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 03, 2020, 02:53:05 PM
Yes, they are the official English version by HiG

Some comments on them:

>> 2. Placing a meeple

The sentence in red is mistranslated.

Quote
After having placed a half-sized tile you may now place a Meeple on your tile according to the rules of the base game.

You may also place a Meeple on an adjacent triangular tile if there already is one.

The text should be something similar to this as per the German original text:

Quote
After having placed a half-sized tile you may now place a Meeple on your tile according to the rules of the base game.

You may place a Meeple even if there is already a Meeple on an adjacent half-sized tile.

So you can see how misleading the HiG English text can be at this point.



>> 3. Scoring a feature

The English rules include the following sentence regarding the scoring of completed features:

Quote
If you complete a feature by placing a half-sized tile, it is being scored according to the rules of the base game.

The German rules provide a slightly different meaning as they don't assume you complete the feature with the Halfling tile...

Quote
If you complete a feature with a half-sized tile, it is scored according to the normal rules.

So, again, we have a slight wording change that can drive you nuts trying to understand the intended meaning.



>> Crop circle rules

There is another mistranslation similar to the one present in the ZMG release of Big Box 6:

Quote
Place the triangular crop circle tile according to the rules. Afterwards you determine a kind of Meeple (knight, highwayman or farmer) and choose one of the following actions which all players (including yourself) must complete, starting with the player to your left:
Each player must either…
A) … take a Meeple from their supply and place it next to another one of their Meeples of this kind on the same land tile.
OR
B) … remove one of their Meeples of the determined kind from a land tile and put it back into their supply.
If a player does not have any Meeples of the determined kind, they cannot complete neither action A nor B.

The translation of original German rules would lead to the following translation:

Quote
Place the triangular crop circle tile according to the rules. Afterwards you determine a kind of Meeple (knight, highwayman or farmer) and choose one of the following actions which all players (including yourself) must complete, starting with the player to your left:
Each player either…
A) … may take a Meeple from their supply and place it next to another one of their Meeples of this kind on the same land tile.
OR
B) … must remove one of their Meeples of the determined kind from a land tile and put it back into their supply.
If a player does not have any Meeples of the determined kind, they cannot complete neither action A nor B.

This mistake may reopen the may-must discussion around the crop circles actions one more. The readers of the German rules will continue their lives quietly while the English readers would be scratching their heads as the C1 rules say something contradicted by the C2 rules.



After reviewing the intended meaning of the original German rules my understanding of these rules is the following:

* Half-sized tiles are considered individual tiles:
   - You can place meeples on them no matter they share the same square space with another half-sized tile no matter if the latter has a meeple on it.
   - You score features like roads and cities as per the usual rules even if they include half-sized tiles, that is, half-sized tiles count the same as regular tiles.

* The exception is how monasteries behave:
   - Monasteries are completed when they the eight adjacent square spaces are occupied by regular square tiles or, by 1 or 2 half-sized tiles per space --- This is not a change.
   - Completed monasteries always score 9 points, no matter how many tiles can be crammed into the 3x3 grid centered at the monastery. --- This is a return to the original intent of the rules from 2014 with an updated wording.

So it seems this was the original intent by HiG back in 2014 but somehow down the road it got misinterpreted. The discussion around if two half-sized tiles in the same square would score as 1 square tile for cities and roads was never in the rules. It seems to have popped up from the way monasteries considered tiles in their surroundings when half-sized tiles entered the equation.

Therefore, all the clarifications from 10/2015 seem to continue to be valid except for monasteries that go back to their original definition. The number of tiles around a monastery is irrelevant, just the number of occupied spaces.

This redefinition of how monasteries are scored with half-sized tiles has a domino effect on other interactions, even contradicting clarifications from 10/2015. HiG will not provide clarifications for all these interactions so we'll have to extrapolate from the given rules to cover this cases as best as we can. Affected interactions:
* Scoring of all monastic buildings: abbeys, shrines, German monasteries (with a monk), Dutch & Belgian monasteries (with a monk), Japanese buildings (with a monk) and Darmstadt churches should follow the same rules as monasteries
* Scoring of gardens: should follow similar rules to monasteries
* Scoring of the abbot when removed: should follow similar rules to incomplete monasteries
* Scoring of German monasteries: should be adapted to follow similar rules to monasteries (but scoring always 12 points when complete).
* Scoring of monastic buildings and gardens with adjacent double-sized tiles: should be adapted so they score 9 points when complete no matter if one or more double-sized tiles are occupying multiple adjacent spaces to the feature. This would contradict this clarification from 10/2015 where these monasteries would score according to the number of adjacent tiles:

(http://wikicarpedia.com/images/0/0e/German_Castles_C2_Clarification_Cloister_Example_01.png)
Example:
- Clarification from 10/2015: (A) scores 8 points, (B) scores 7 points 
- Rules aligned with C2 halfings: (A) scores 9 points, (B) scores 9 points 

Additionally, any feature or action considering adjacency from a tile should consider any tile placed on an adjacent square space:
- One regular square tile
- One Half-sized tile
- Two half-sized tiles sharing the same square space
- One half of a double-sized tile (as a consequence)

In general this affects:
- Areas of 3x3 tiles centered at a feature or figure (watchtower tiles, acrobat tiles, circus tiles, fruit-bearing tree tiles, bathhouses, Darmstadt churches)
- Areas of 2x3 tiles (castle fiefs)
- Areas of 4x3 tiles (area of a adjacency to a German castle)
- Adjacencies related to the placement of gold ingots

Other mechanics such the range of the tower, columns and rows for special monasteries with a meeple placed as an abbot, the trajectory of a flier, the movement of dragon, the movement of the flea tokens, etc. will follow the clarifications provided so far:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions)



Please share your thoughts.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Whaleyland on April 03, 2020, 04:01:01 PM
Quote
You can play Halflings alongside expansions as well; however, there will be no official rules for these combinations.
You've got to love how lazy Hans im Glück has become with its mini expansion rules. Despite publishing an expansion with four different expansion elements on some of its tiles, they decide that they'd just explain those four expansion's rules rather than actually address compatibility issues with other expansions. I'm just scratching my head at the ridiculousness of it all.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Murphy013 on April 03, 2020, 04:01:59 PM
Regarding to the crop circles:

Each must decide between option a and b.
A) they can place a meeple from their supply to an already placed meeple and nowhere else
Or
B) remove a meeple

So from my point of view the translation make Sense, but I’m not a native speaker and understand sometimes not the nuances
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Murphy013 on April 03, 2020, 04:03:34 PM
I guess that only the old players knows the c1 and c2 rules
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 03, 2020, 04:11:14 PM
Regarding to the crop circles:

Each must decide between option a and b.
A) they can place a meeple from their supply to an already placed meeple and nowhere else
Or
B) remove a meeple

So from my point of view the translation make Sense, but I’m not a native speaker and understand sometimes not the nuances

It is a tiny change but what HiG did in the English rules was this:

Each must decide between option a and b.
A) they can place a meeple from their supply to an already placed meeple and nowhere else
Or
B) remove a meeple

So the can (or may) par of option A) was removed so they told players: you must add a meeple or remove a meeple. This was in contrast with the German rules: you may add meeple or you must remove a meeple.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: DrMeeple on April 04, 2020, 09:05:41 AM
Quote
You can play Halflings alongside expansions as well; however, there will be no official rules for these combinations.
You've got to love how lazy Hans im Glück has become with its mini expansion rules. Despite publishing an expansion with four different expansion elements on some of its tiles, they decide that they'd just explain those four expansion's rules rather than actually address compatibility issues with other expansions. I'm just scratching my head at the ridiculousness of it all.

Bravo!! I was thinking the same the other day hahaha
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Murphy013 on April 04, 2020, 03:50:51 PM
Dito
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Vital Pluymers on April 05, 2020, 02:15:00 AM
I will continue playing with the Halflings just as it was written in WICA until one week ago.
Why would we even bother to discuss these ridiculous rules of a publisher that is not even willing to supply rules for his own published expansion interactions?
On this forum, there are a lot of people who seem to care much more about the game than the publisher himself. There is so much work already prepared on this forum, but it's clear that HiG does not even bother to read it through...

So, Meepledrone, just ignore these "new" rules. If the publisher does not care, why should we?
They will get their money anyway...
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 05, 2020, 02:35:11 AM
Hi Vital Pluymers,

My guts tell me the original rules were misinterpreted by readers so the scoring rules for monasteries were adapted to other features by mistake.

That is the two tiles in a square spaced scored as one tile for cities and roads was a mistake. It wasn't in the original rules but everyone accepted that after the scoring for monasteries

That's why HiG insist on the rules with a different wording.

What do you think?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 05, 2020, 05:16:06 AM
I already added a first version of the rules for C2 Halflings to WICA... but have to update all the other affected spots all over WICA.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings)

I was thinking of keeping track of the evolution of the rules:
* original (from 2014)
* new (from 10/2015)
* new new (from 2020)

Again, I think all the fuss comes from:
* the misinterpretation of the original rules due to the concise wording: the rules for monasteries were applied to roads and cities
* the whimsical clarifications from 2015: the rules intended for roads and cities were applied to monasteries
* the new new rules where:
   - roads and cities are scored according to the usual rules (a tile is a tile) as intended in 2014 and clarified in 2015
   - monasteries are scored as intended in 2014 (forgetting about the clarifications from 2015)

So all the clarifications from 10/2015 are still valid except for monasteries (and German castles). All other monastic buildings, gardens and the abbot meeple will have to follow suit.

I feel the grudge in the air  >:D

PS: What? My 1400th post and still discussing Halflings?  :o
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Murphy013 on April 05, 2020, 12:45:35 PM
@Meepledrone: big work, +1 merit from me
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 05, 2020, 03:18:36 PM
Thanks Murphy013!

I'm still busy with the Halflings page, adding applicable clarifications from C1 Halflings. I still have to update the images I borrowed from the C1 version to make them closed to C2.

I still have to write to HiG about the mistranslations in the English rules in 2. Placing a meeple, 3. Scoring a feature and the Crop Circle actions.

Then I will have to update:
* Halflings for C1--> Update all the rules according to C2
* Castles in Germany for C1/C2--> Update clarification on scoring a monastery surrounded by German castle tiles
* Game Reference --> Update the preparation with 2 Halflings sets.
* Scoring During the Game for C1/C2/WE --> Update scoring for Monastic Buildings/German castles/Gardens/Abbot with Halflings
* Scoring After the Game for C1/C2/WE --> Update scoring for Monastic Buildings/German castles/Gardens with Halflings
* Summary of Rule Sets and Changes --> Add latest changes with Halflings (if applicable - we have some misinterpretations)

A lot of work ahead, I'm afraid.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 06, 2020, 07:52:37 AM
I moved the posts discussing changes to page Scoring during the Game in WICA to this topic:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4489.msg67309#msg67309 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4489.msg67309#msg67309)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Rosco on April 11, 2020, 11:28:22 PM
Regarding to the crop circles:

Each must decide between option a and b.
A) they can place a meeple from their supply to an already placed meeple and nowhere else
Or
B) remove a meeple

So from my point of view the translation make Sense, but I’m not a native speaker and understand sometimes not the nuances

It is a tiny change but what HiG did in the English rules was this:

Each must decide between option a and b.
A) they can place a meeple from their supply to an already placed meeple and nowhere else
Or
B) remove a meeple

So the can (or may) par of option A) was removed so they told players: you must add a meeple or remove a meeple. This was in contrast with the German rules: you may add meeple or you must remove a meeple.
That doesn't seem to make sense to me.

The point of the expansion was surely that it was a little bitter sweet. Sometimes you could win a feature with an extra meeple and sometimes you could rescue a meeple from a dead feature BUT if these positives were not possible you would have to waste a meeple by adding one to a feature pointlessly or remove a meeple from a good feature you were likely to score.  Therefore the rule only really make sense if it is "must A or B."

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 12, 2020, 03:29:49 AM
You can see here that the rules were like that in C1 (you may place a meeple or you must remove a meeple):

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles_(1st_edition)#Playing_the_Game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles_(1st_edition)#Playing_the_Game)

The wording comes from the CAR, that matches the German rules for C1 and C2 as well.

Don't ask me why but the C2 rules in English failed to reflect the original meaning correctly:
* The Big Box 6 rules in English by ZMG mistranslated the wording and changed the meaning to must/must.
* The C2 Halflings rules by HiG mistranslated the wording again and changed the meaning to must/must

So in the original rules you must choose between two options:
* A) Placing a meeple optionally:
   - Each player places a meeple...
   - or does nothing
* B) Removing a meeple mandatorily:
   - Each player must remove a meeple

This means option A) allows each player to decide what to do: if placing a meeple does not help or it is preferable to save the meeple for later, it is possible to skip the action. Option B) is mandatory and everyone is forced to do it unless the player has no meeples on the feature type required by the action.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: meepleater on April 17, 2020, 03:02:33 AM
I ordered this a while ago, but unfortunately I just received this email from cundco:

Quote
Hello,

we are very sorry, but the current information from the mail service says, that due to the Corona crises, no goods will be delivered in the moment to Australia as usual.

The dispatch of goods and parcel shipments to Australia will no longer be offered until further notice

We have tried to send your order #[removed], but it returned to us today. So we will keep your order until the situation will go back to normal. So sorry for that. Please inform you by web about that situation. Thank you!

Still, if this is the worst that happens I'm doing pretty well I guess...
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Sinscerly on April 17, 2020, 05:28:20 AM
I ordered this a while ago, but unfortunately I just received this email from cundco:

Quote
Hello,

we are very sorry, but the current information from the mail service says, that due to the Corona crises, no goods will be delivered in the moment to Australia as usual.

The dispatch of goods and parcel shipments to Australia will no longer be offered until further notice

We have tried to send your order #[removed], but it returned to us today. So we will keep your order until the situation will go back to normal. So sorry for that. Please inform you by web about that situation. Thank you!

Still, if this is the worst that happens I'm doing pretty well I guess...

At least they hold it for you, hope they don't forget it :)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 17, 2020, 05:46:03 AM
Pheeew! I got my order with C2 Halflings last Monday... However HiG got confused and left some items out by mistake. I wrote to them the same day, sending even pictures, but no answer yet.  :-[
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Brickmaster92 on April 17, 2020, 07:48:57 AM
I wrote to them the same day, sending even pictures, but no answer yet.  :-[

They've been pretty good about sending replacements for damaged items on a few occasions for me; I'm sure they'll fix the error!  :black1-meeple:
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 17, 2020, 03:41:20 PM
Finally I got a reply this evening so I sent some clarifications back. It seems we are closer to solve the pending issues.  ;D
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: DrMeeple on April 18, 2020, 02:42:33 AM
Can I use a mexican sauce with my halflings?? Do you think that HiG will solve this issue? They seem so delicious.... I want to eat halflings!!  ;D  :))
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on April 18, 2020, 07:51:32 AM
Be careful, the Grinch taught us tiles can be delicious!  ;)

Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: DrMeeple on April 18, 2020, 10:21:34 AM
Be careful, the Grinch taught us tiles can be delicious!  ;)
Hahahahaha this picture is sooo funny hahahaha Missing mexican sauce on that dorito... I mean... Halfling!! emoji code28]emoji code23]

Enviado desde St. Meeple Hospital

Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: totor66 on October 21, 2020, 12:48:06 AM
Sorry for the gravedig but am I the only one bothered that in halfling II, it is not possible to play with all 12 tiles and have 6 perfect squares during the game ?

There are 3 diagonal sides with Cities and 3 with fields.

Damn Symmetry !
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on October 21, 2020, 01:00:06 AM
Why need to create nice 6 squeres?
This expansion is for:
1. helping player to escape from trap made by another players
2. solve issue that required tile was placed by another player elsewhere
3. made a trap for another player

Nice squares are not requested.

Specially for Halflings II, there is only one Hill, only one Sheep and only one Corn Place. None if perfect, and it's about luck in play ;-)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: totor66 on October 21, 2020, 02:39:43 AM

Why need to create nice 6 squeres? BECCAUSE IT LOOKS NICE ;)

This expansion is for:
1. BURN DOWN ALL CARCASSONNE EXISTING RULES

Nice squares are not requested. But a triangle hole is even uglier than a square one !

Specially for Halflings II, there is only one Hill, only one Sheep and only one Corn Place. None if perfect, and it's about luck in play ;-)

I corrected your post ;)

And I have to admit, the rule of picking just 2 or 3 per player creates awful looking maps
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on October 21, 2020, 02:52:41 AM
Ok. Understand.
In mega carcassonne usually all gaps can be filled. Because exapsions brings tiles which solves spesial situations on board.

Anyway, for me, any expansion which change rules is welcome. I don't like expansions without changes of rules.

Expansion without rules are for me just "yet another tiles".

Good selection and specialy random selection of expansions brings always new game and new experience from this amazing game.

And when you thing, OK. I'm Boss in Carcassonne, then become different selection of expansions and your strategy is totaly ruined ;-)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on October 21, 2020, 06:56:38 AM
Why do Halflings always provoke such mood swings?  >:D

There are enough tiles to create chaos but too few to solve all issues they create... So this tension between collaboration and confrontation is good for the game... in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: DrMeeple on October 21, 2020, 07:07:50 AM
Why do Halflings always provoke such mood swings?  >:D

There are enough tiles to create chaos but too few to solve all issues they create... So this tension between collaboration and confrontation is good for the game... in my humble opinion.
That’s because it’s sooooo wild!! :D


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on October 21, 2020, 08:37:31 AM
Well we are playing at home, rules, which we call as strict C2 rules.
For example:
1. As described in C2 rules, monastery is available for scoring only if outer squere of 8 tiles arround monastery is perceft squere. Same rule we apply for all of simmilar situations as Cult / German Castles / Monastery buildings (DE/NL/JP) / Barber Surgeons.

2. Barn can be placed only only on right angle (90°) of Halfling.

3. When strictly said in rules, that it's counted tiles - we count each halfling when not we count squere place even if one or two Halfling places in same squere

Basicly we solve all of our issue, but we have still not solved issue about placing second Halfling to same squere with previousle placed halfling with Hill.
If second halfling is on Hill or not. Another issue is place Hill halfling next to already placed Halfling to same squere.

For these two unanswered question we play Hills by house rules:
1. We don't place tile beyond tile with Hill.
2. All tiles and only tiles with Hill are counted as tile with Hill.

This solved problematic Halfling Hill tile placement. Both scenario:
1. If first is Hill - second is without
2. If second is Hill - first keeped without Hill
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on October 21, 2020, 11:18:46 AM
Well we are playing at home, rules, which we call as strict C2 rules.
For example:
1. As described in C2 rules, monastery is available for scoring only if outer squere of 8 tiles arround monastery is perceft squere. Same rule we apply for all of simmilar situations as Cult / German Castles / Monastery buildings (DE/NL/JP) / Barber Surgeons.

2. Barn can be placed only only on right angle (90°) of Halfling.

3. When strictly said in rules, that it's counted tiles - we count each halfling when not we count squere place even if one or two Halfling places in same squer

Pretty strict rules! Life is much easier... You score per square tiles except for German castles, right?

Basicly we solve all of our issue, but we have still not solved issue about placing second Halfling to same squere with previousle placed halfling with Hill.
If second halfling is on Hill or not. Another issue is place Hill halfling next to already placed Halfling to same squere.

For these two unanswered question we play Hills by house rules:
1. We don't place tile beyond tile with Hill.
2. All tiles and only tiles with Hill are counted as tile with Hill.

This solved problematic Halfling Hill tile placement. Both scenario:
1. If first is Hill - second is without
2. If second is Hill - first keeped without Hill

I would just consider, as the rules say that the Halfling with the hill affects the whole square. It is odd if the Halfling with a hill was placed the second, but you are consistent...

In any case, fair enough if regular Halfling tiles don't get the hill effect from a neighbour tile...
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on October 21, 2020, 01:20:40 PM
Well we are playing at home, rules, which we call as strict C2 rules.
For example:
1. As described in C2 rules, monastery is available for scoring only if outer squere of 8 tiles arround monastery is perceft squere. Same rule we apply for all of simmilar situations as Cult / German Castles / Monastery buildings (DE/NL/JP) / Barber Surgeons.

Pretty strict rules! Life is much easier... You score per square tiles except for German castles, right?

Thanks, and of course, for German castle it's perfect outer rectangle of 10 tiles arround German Castle.

I would just consider, as the rules say that the Halfling with the hill affects the whole square. It is odd if the Halfling with a hill was placed the second, but you are consistent...

In any case, fair enough if regular Halfling tiles don't get the hill effect from a neighbour tile...

So If C2 rules said it, then let it be this way. So each Halflings in same squere will apply Hill rules if any of this two Halflings have it.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 21, 2021, 02:26:49 AM
Today I have speach with Freddy from HiG on Discord.
And he clarrified finished cloister with halflings in adjancent files doesn't matter on rotation of halfling.
Example picture.

Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on January 21, 2021, 04:15:24 AM
So they re-confirm that monasteries consider occupied spaces for their scoring, not the number of neighboring tiles, right?

Did he say a word about double-sized tiles?  >:D

EDIT: Improved wording.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 21, 2021, 04:47:10 AM
Not yet.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on January 22, 2021, 03:48:42 PM
So they re-confirm that monasteries consider occupied spaces for their scoring, not the number of neighboring tiles, right?

Did he say a word about double-sized tiles?  >:D

Confirmed by Freddy (HiG) on HiG Discord server on 21 01 2021:

Quote
(https://wikicarpedia.com/images/0/0e/German_Castles_C2_Clarification_Cloister_Example_01.png)

Q: Can we assume that monasteries A and B also score 9 points?
A: Yes, it's also 9 points. For every [occupied] space around the monastery 1 point (8 points) and 1 point for the monastery itself.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 23, 2021, 12:54:23 AM
Ok. So I guess we can generalize this also for Double sized tiles and Halflings - point is for space not for tile
1. Monastery
2. German Castles
3. German Monasteries / Japanese Buildings + Dutch/Belgian monasteries (when plaing C2 rules ;D) - when figure is Monk
4. Baba Yaga's Hut

This also opens question about adjacent tiles for
1. Release of trapped meeple on Barber Surgeons tile

This also open question about coungin double sided tiles
1. German Monasteries / etc. - when figure is placed as Abbot

anybody can name another unsolved interactions ;-D
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on January 23, 2021, 02:51:29 AM
Ok. So I guess we can generalize this also for Double sized tiles and Halflings - point is for space not for tile

This is what we want to get (re)clarified... But we have two options: tile-oriented scorings and space/grid-oriented scorings. We will have to discuss each case...

1. Monastery

This was explained in the rules and re-confirmed on Discord yesterday.

2. German Castles

This was assumed as a conclusion after the rules for Halflings. A tile-oriented approach would not make sense at this point. It would be great to confirm it officially.

3. German Monasteries / Japanese Buildings + Dutch/Belgian monasteries (when plaing C2 rules ;D) - when figure is Monk

Same as for regular monasteries. Consider also abbeys, shrines and Darmstadt churches in the same lot.

4. Baba Yaga's Hut

It always considered empty (square) spaces, so there will be no change. So tile geometries never had an impact on them. If any clarification would be required, we should contact Hobby World, but I don't think there is any doubt in this case as per the definition of the rules in this case.

Check the rules here:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)#Baba_Yaga.E2.80.99s_Hut (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)#Baba_Yaga.E2.80.99s_Hut)

This also opens question about adjacent tiles for
1. Release of trapped meeple on Barber Surgeons tile

The rules indicate the bathhouse has to be completely the same as a monastery... So bathhouses follow a grid-oriented apporach too: you need to occupy the adjacent spaces only. Check here:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#1._Completing_a_bathhouse (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#1._Completing_a_bathhouse)

Quote
If a player places the last Land tile surrounding a bathhouse (the same way you complete monasteries), the Meeple placed in the bathhouse can be taken back immediately and for free.

This also open question about coungin double sided tiles
1. German Monasteries / etc. - when figure is placed as Abbot

Extrapolating from monasteries, these features had followed different approaches:
- Rules from 2014: Grid-oriented scoring
- Clarifications from 10/2015: Tile-oriented approach
- Rules from 2020: Back to grid-oriented scoring? You only count a stretch of occupied spaces. However, here the reference is how tower ranges are considered... We certainly need to clarify this.

anybody can name another unsolved interactions ;-D

I'm adding to the equation both halflings and double-sized tiles:

* Regular scoring for cities and roads (Base game): Validate that each tile counts individually (tile-oriented scoring for halflings). It is assumed from the wording, but it will never hurt to be sure 100%.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#3._Scoring_a_feature (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#3._Scoring_a_feature)
Quote
If you complete a feature with half-sized tiles, it is scored according to the normal rules.

* Connectivity in fields (Base game): Is a triangular gap defining field borders? I would assume yes... My current is that the read meeples are in different fields in the following example:
(https://wikicarpedia.com/images/c/c7/Halflings_C2_Clarification_Farm_Example_01.jpg)

The underlying question here is how triangular gaps are considered: they are not a proper gap for some scorings (grid-oriented approach) but they work as gaps for some others (tile-oriented approach). Getting too philosophical here?

* The movement of the dragon+placement of the fairy (Exp. 3) and the plague (The Plague): They should be also tile-oriented unless there is a new rules change after the clarifications from 10/2015.
(https://wikicarpedia.com/images/d/db/Halflings_C1_Clarification_Dragon_Example_01.jpg)(https://wikicarpedia.com/images/9/97/Halflings_C1_Clarification_Plague_Example_01.jpg)

* Tower ranges (Exp. 4) and flier ranges (Mini #1) - how ranges are computed: It should also be tile oriented scoring for halflings and double-sized tiles. Are we going to consider two halves in a German castle tile or in a road on a Market of Leipzig tile? I would say no. There are very interesting cases here:
(https://wikicarpedia.com/images/b/b0/Halflings_C2_Flier_Straight_Example_02.jpg)(https://wikicarpedia.com/images/e/e1/Halflings_C2_Flier_Diagonal_Example_01.jpg)(https://wikicarpedia.com/images/2/28/Halflings_C2_Flier_Diagonal_Example_02.jpg)

* Placing an abbey (Exp. 5): There should be no change after the rules for monasteries. We are considering occupied spaces.

* The barn and field connectivity (Exp. 5):
   - A barn can be placed on any tile intersection where the for corners are occupied (by square tiles, haflings or a double-sized tile) as per the clarification from 10/2015. Is this still valid. I would say yes for the sake of simplicity and common sense.
   - Depending how triangular gas are considered for field connectivity, barns can have different effects on field continuity. Example: Here you may consider an intersection with two separate fields. If you place a barn there, does it connect the fields or should be consider the barn is placed in two fields at the same time?
(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2125.0;attach=4105)
My suggestion in WICA was that the barn should connect the fields since the rules always assume a barn is placed in one field...  This requires a clarification for sure.

* Bridges (Exp. 8 ) and halflings: There is an issue with bridges and halflings: If the road connected to the bridge loops back and passes under the same bridge, the road underneath would count as two tiles and the one passing over the bridge should have the same number of tiles too. In a tile-oriented approach, the bridge should count as 2 tiles but in a grid-oriented tile, it should count as one tile? This also affects the position of a meeple on the bridge. We certainly need a clarification for this... And this affects how roads and cities are scored too.
Maybe tiles should not be allowed across halflings...  :o

* Little buildings (Little Buildings):
   - In a tile-oriented approach little buildings affect only the tile they are on. This would make sense with halflings and double-sized iles.
   - If for some reason we turn back to a grid-oriented approach, little buildings would affect a whole square (thinking of halflings) in the same way as hills. Would would happen in this case with double-sized tiles?

So just a few ideas...  ;)

EDIT: Added the fairy.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 23, 2021, 04:24:58 AM
That barn is interesting, but I guest, this is not correct placing, because for the, that are 4 different fields, because there is still possible to place Halflings with city on regular edge.
Different situation was clarification on image A example 2 and example 3, where there is not possible to place city halfling under barn in another turn.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on January 23, 2021, 04:34:15 AM
Once you place the barn, no city edges can be placed at that intersection for the sake of consistency... You would only be allowed to place corners with fields... The same restriction buy applied the other way round...
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 23, 2021, 04:39:37 AM
* Bridges (Exp. 8 ) and halflings:
Maybe tiles should not be allowed across halflings...  :o

After reading rules, I think so.

You can place bridge to:
1. on the tile you placed
2. on a tile adjacent to the tile you placed

So there is no possibility in rules of bridge to place
1. on halfling you placed - because it has to be also placed to already placed halfling
2. over two already placed halflings which are adjacent to the tile you placed - this is against rules

In this case there will be tricky situation placing bridge like on image.
Update: I made 2 turns to show hat it can happend
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 23, 2021, 04:41:17 AM
Once you place the barn, no city edges can be placed at that intersection for the sake of consistency... You would only be allowed to place corners with fields... The same restriction buy applied the other way round...

Well and we are also back on situation of placing hill Halfling neer to left space keeped by previous placed Halfling :D
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on January 23, 2021, 04:57:49 AM
Yes... This is another issue to be clarified...
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on January 23, 2021, 05:07:52 AM
* Bridges (Exp. 8 ) and halflings:
Maybe tiles should not be allowed across halflings...  :o

After reading rules, I think so.

You can place bridge to:
1. on the tile you placed
2. on a tile adjacent to the tile you placed

So there is no possibility in rules of bridge to place
1. on halfling you placed - because it has to be also placed to already placed halfling
2. over two already placed halflings which are adjacent to the tile you placed - this is against rules

In this case there will be tricky situation placing bridge like on image.
Update: I made 2 turns to show hat it can happend

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4572.0;attach=13616)

If allowed, this would be awesome...  :o
But breaking the tile grid is a NO GO in this case... Let's ask about this and have fun  >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Decar on January 24, 2021, 01:36:41 AM
Does the crop circle tile even have to be there?  :o
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on January 24, 2021, 01:48:56 AM
It is possible if you placed the vineyard and the crop circle tiles first... The bridge was placed on an "adjacent" tile.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Decar on January 24, 2021, 01:51:40 AM
Imagine a board without the crop circle tile on it
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Whaleyland on January 24, 2021, 02:05:12 AM
I’ve always taught the rules that if there is one Halfling, then the space is occupied and anything that can happen to a space can happen. Therefore a Bridge could cross a Halfling tile, even if only half the space is filled. Therefore, if this strange and unlikely scenario is possible, then leaving out the Crop Circle should be allowed.
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Meepledrone on January 24, 2021, 03:10:21 AM
Here you are an example of various issues we would like to clarify with HiG (Decar is gonna love it  >:D):

If halflings are considered individually as stated in the clarifications from 10/2015, how should be consider the actions affecting halfling with the bridges?
- Those bridges are considered as 2 tiles? Does the bridge counts as two tiles in this case?
- Is the position of meeple on the bridge relevant for the protection of the fairy and the movement of the dragon? Can the fairy protect only one half of the bridge? Can the dragon eat the meeples of only one half of the bridge?

At least we know the hill would affect both halflings so the red meeple has the majority in the road...  ;D

Maybe the solution is that bridges can only span across one single tile: a square tile or double-sized tile (across the short side). If so, this discussion was pointless from the start... But it was fun indeed.  ;)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: corinthiens13 on January 24, 2021, 04:45:35 AM
I’ve always taught the rules that if there is one Halfling, then the space is occupied and anything that can happen to a space can happen. Therefore a Bridge could cross a Halfling tile, even if only half the space is filled. Therefore, if this strange and unlikely scenario is possible, then leaving out the Crop Circle should be allowed.

According to the bridge's rules:
Quote
When placing a bridge, you must place both ends in a field
So even if we're not talking about halflings here, placing a bridge on a space filled with only one halfling doesn't meet the requirement that both ends have to be in a field  ;)
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: corinthiens13 on January 24, 2021, 04:50:54 AM
I'm using those rules:
Title: Re: Carcassonne - Halb So Wild (neue Edition)
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 24, 2021, 09:07:33 AM
According to @Meepledrone's Image called: Halflings_Bridges_Dragon_v1.png
My previous example was devil question: what if.

But. Is it possible this situation. I'm not sure.

I'm going back to my logical thinking about rules:

You can place bridge to:
1. on the tile you placed
2. on a tile adjacent to the tile you placed

So there is no possibility in rules of bridge to place on Halfling because:
1. on halfling you placed - it has to be also placed to already placed halfling or empty space - nor are allowed
2. over two already placed halflings which are adjacent to the tile you placed - this is against rules

But Halfling ruins a lot of traditional rules ;-)