Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Reviews & Session Reports => Topic started by: Whaleyland on September 25, 2015, 03:56:34 PM
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Element Match-Ups is a new series of weekly challenges for all members of CarcassonneCentral. Each week, an element from a large expansion will be matched up with an element from a small expansion. Your job: try it out and let everybody know what you think about the pair. Consider this a quasi-scientific survey in that you are only playing with these two elements and the base game — nothing else! Otherwise the results will be skewed. You have a week to try the match-up from the time the match is announced until the next match is announced (which usually occurs sometime between Friday and Saturday, depending on time zone).
This week our elements are THE TOWER and THE FLYING MACHINES from Carcassonne Minis #1. The Tower, officially expansion #4, has been around for quite a long time yet I've always felt to be an undervalued expansion to the game. Granted it is harsh, but that's part of its allure. In contrast, The Flying Machines was the first of the Minis and grew in popularity as more expansions released that left spaces open on the board. Together, these elements may work excellently together...or maybe not. Let's find out!
The elements are set, the challenge is issued, and now it is for you to decide whether these elements work well together or are terrible companions. Summarise your experience below in however much detail you wish, and feel free to share any strategic advice you have for other players taking the challenge.
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I think this is a great combination, and in fact I played a game with these two elements (and a couple more) with Dan just two days ago. In that game, the flying machines did not have much impact, partly because three of them were drawn very early in the game before the tower had a chance to do any damage.
I also remember playing this combination another time in real life and writing about it here, but now I can't find the post. I remember loving the combination but that was before I realised that the flying machines can't be used for farms. I think that's a nice house-rule to include when playing this combination, because it can potentially allow you to get your farmers deeper into the landscape away from towers, rather than placing them on the edge of the landscape where they can be picked off by towers.
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I like both expansions. But the flier can't land on the top of a tower in the official rules.
If the flier lands on a tile next to a tower...the next player might place a new tower piece and the flier is captured by that player.
Ok perhaps you should play with a house rule which allows the flier to land on the top of a tower...
I never played this combination Tower and Flying Machins together yet, but it might be a nice chaotic game play.
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Good thing to note. I was more thinking features made empty because a Tower captured the Follower, but I probably wouldn't have remembered that Fliers can't go to Towers (although they can go on the features on the same tile). Thanks for clarifying.
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You don't need Flier to go to the top of the Tower. It is a legal move by itself, without using Flier.
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You don't need Flier to go to the top of the Tower. It is a legal move by itself, without using Flier.
Huh. Good point. You can always add to a Tower or put a Guard atop one. So the flier is not required for that and the flier option is always...optional.
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I think the Flyer is indeed a good addition for the tower because you can try to place followers on streets, cloisters and cities emptied by the tower.
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I like Flyers with Princess and the Dragon and The Plague for the same reasons as the Tower. I sometimes use the magic portals instead of The Flyers with the Tower and Plague as an alternative because it takes the luck of the dice out of the equation.
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I remember loving the combination but that was before I realised that the flying machines can't be used for farms. I think that's a nice house-rule to include when playing this combination, because it can potentially allow you to get your farmers deeper into the landscape away from towers, rather than placing them on the edge of the landscape where they can be picked off by towers.
I wouldn't go for that. If I would house rule something, it would be rather, that you can't use a magic portal for farming. However, Flyers is even more powerful then the portal, because it is not restricted to unoccupied features. On the other hand, with the "have to place a meeple after using the Flyer, if possible" rule, this house rule might also make the element less interesting with other buildings, because the risk of trapping a meeple in an unwanted spot increases, if you include farms.
On a side note, this two elements can be played solely on JCZ. Maybe we take the opportunity to play a few rounds during this week.
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So, we tried this combination out yesterday and were wholly disappointed with the entire relationship between the two elements. Three of the Fliers were pulled too early in the game for them to really be of any use. Two more were pulled but the die did not roll the results we were looking for – I ended up on a 1-tile Road and she rolled a hole. The final three tiles had their arrows arranged in such a way that we couldn't use them for anything worthwhile. In other words, the Fliers was a bust. The Towers, on the other hand, did a great job of getting the two of us thoroughly ticked off at each other. There ended up being one massive Farm that we kept passing back and forth until I finally nabbed it at the end (I was the first to claim it early in the game, so I felt vindicated). A few Cloisters were completed, a few decent-sized Cities scored, and we even had a 10-point Road. The benefit of the Towers is that players can often claim large features that were vacated because of a Tower capture. While Fliers should have been more helpful, our entire board was surrounded by open Roads and City edges, which made placing primarily FFFF tiles very difficult to accomplish.
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In my experience, fliers are rarely useful. However, the constant threat of somebody using one to fly their mayor or large meeple directly into your city is always a worry throughout games that include them, even if the odds are stacked in your favour. One of my happiest memories using a flier tile in this way took place in one of our weekly games, and as I remember, MrNumbers wasn’t very happy about it... ;)
Obviously the dice brings an element of luck with it, but it isn’t uncommon that if the perfect spot exists you can be guaranteed to fly into a certain feature regardless of what number you role (especially if you’re also using bridges – these can really help you to find a good placement opportunity for your tile). This becomes easier as features grow too, which is a nice idea as it means that the more valuable a city becomes, the more vulnerable it is to attack from above!
The Tower changes the game enormously and is by far the most frustrating of all the expansions I play with. There’s nothing quite like being one tile away from completing a large city, then having it completed for you by your opponent, minus your knight of course. So whilst the Tower definitely leaves lots of features available, flying back into them is too difficult on account of a) getting the correct flight path and b) rolling the right number. Considering how damaging The Tower really is, I’d say that the Magic Portals from P & D are a better partner than the fliers.
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Two more were pulled but the die did not roll the results we were looking for – I ended up on a 1-tile Road and she rolled a hole.
1-tile Road at that moment, or was your meeple trapped on that road, which was not extendable? And if it was the second case, could you retrieve your meeple through a tower piece? Maybe, there could be benefits of the combination in the other direction. Because you MUST place a meeple, if possible after the dice-roll, there is sometimes the risk, that you end up on an other building as the one, you initially wanted. And if you take a risk for a very promising target, this might end in a trapped meeple, you might want to sacrifice a tower piece for.
Another question: is anybody avaible right now, who would like to have a JCZ game with that combo? I'm in chat.
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We had an interesting game - i dont think the flyers made much difference to the game at all. towers as always made a fairly major difference.
Good game
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Good game
Ouch!
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I was quite lucky!
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I agree, the flyers were not used very much. Only Rosco launched a successful attempt to get into my unfinished 6 point city and I tried to do the same for majority on my last tile. I must confess, I did not get it, that that was my last tile, otherwise I would have gone for the road on the right side of the picture, which would have given me the 6 points for sure. There was no other building to use this particular flyer for.
In general, I think the towers restrict a lot the options for placing the flyers (without risking getting the meeple snatched on the next turn), as in general this tiles had been particular useful for or against me in several games with P&D before. But of course you would need more games to confirm this.
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Another game, I played tonight, this time with Dan. Just the screen shot for now, have to go to bed.
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The combination of expansions seemed to work quite well for us in this game. There was at least one, but possibly 2 or 3 successful flights and a couple that might have worked if not for the dice rolling the “wrong” number. However, the towers did seem to overpower them and in most cases they were soon captured. In fact, there was a lot of capturing going on. Mostly by Hounk at first, who had grabbed so many of my meeples at one point that I had to start buying them back from him (something I find people tend to forget that you can do).
The first half of the game was rather light on tower pieces which allowed me to complete a couple of medium-sized cities without my knights being captured. That was a nice surprise. I also managed to trap two of Hounk’s meeples (along with one of my own – but he was worth slightly more points) within the first dozen or so tiles which put him at a significant disadvantage for the rest of the game. I assumed he’d be able to capture them back but either the right tile never came along or he wasn’t interested in doing so, and both of them remained trapped until the end.
Much of the remainder of the game was spent battling over what ended up turning into quite a big city (eventually worth 28 points). Many knights of both Hounks and mine were captured from the city and I even managed to fly someone into it too (also captured). But it all ended in a stalemate as the city was left empty (everything was captured) with a cccc gap in the middle. So, it all came down to the luck of the draw as the person who drew the cccc tile would take the city, and on this occasion it happened to be Hounk. :(
Elsewhere in the game, I’d built up a small lead which I was able to hang on to until Hounk won the big city, but he was also leading in terms of farmers despite my constant battling to capture them. This ended up being a lot more tactical than I’d anticipated with each of us forcing the other to make certain moves in order to defend certain meeples and all this hastened the demise of our already rapidly dwindling supply of tower pieces. The game felt a lot safer and more conventional once we’d both run out of these, but even so, I wasn’t able to win back an equal share in the farm and Hounk won by a decent margin, but certainly not by any more than he deserved. :green-meeple: ^-^ :blue-meeple: :'(
Well played Hounk! :(y)
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However, the towers did seem to overpower them and in most cases they were soon captured.
I think, this comes true in any game with towers. Especially, if you just add a mini of 6 extra tiles. Towers is a very "concentrated" expansion with 18 tiles and all featuring a foundation.
In the game, I had tonight with Rosco again, much was determined on the first big city, eventually worth 26 points. There was a lot of "towering" going on, I put some meeples on top of the "1" tower right of the starter tile, Rosco snatched them with the "5" tower to the left. And I also got with two (!) fliers into the city, both beeing taken, which I was perfectly aware, that this would happen, in advance. But my goal was to delay Roscos dominance in the city and depleating as many of his tower pieces as possible. And I eventually succeded in finishing the city, when I still had a follower inside, tying the city. Rosco had at that time a lot of my meeples, but just 4 tower pieces left, I bought my meeples back, when I was in need for them and had a big advantage on the farm battle. At times Rosco was leading the farm 2:1, but it was easy, getting them captured with the remaining pieces and foundation tiles, I was not worried about that (even joint one of them into the farm for a nice road and a point for my cloister), but spend a second farmer, worth 6 points in the end, but potentially backing up the farm, especially in case, Rosco might have joint another farmer (captured close to the end, but replaced by the one on the cloister) in with the remaining road-cloister, which I eventually got myself. Then my farmer was captured as well, but I was lucky to replace it in time.
I also succeeded in getting into Roscos "kidney city" with a flyer, but I think the two in the beginning where more important, especially because they saved me a few turns, where I could do something else then putting another meeple on top of the "1" tower.