Author Topic: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2  (Read 3853 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2021, 01:53:09 AM »
For a sneak peek at the rules of the Jubilee expansions, you may check here:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4957.msg76075#msg76075
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Drodo

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2021, 09:04:58 AM »
An additional full turn, different from the Builder's double tile placing?

A full double turn would mean 2 extra points from having the Fairy, or being able to potentially place 4 tiles on a feature with the builder.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2021, 11:01:16 AM »
You get a full extra turn with fairy point and all as per the rules.  ;)

Please find an english translation of the rules here:
Quote
Activating this symbol awards an extra turn. First, complete your turn in which the symbol was activated according to all the usual rules, then make a complete next turn. Note - should you activate this symbol again in that turn, it will have no effect. You will not get a third consecutive turn without interruption.
You can activate both other symbols in an additional turn.

Offline Decar

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2021, 11:12:42 AM »
So can this action be used to play a tile that starts an extra Builder turn?

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2021, 12:36:43 PM »
So can this action be used to play a tile that starts an extra Builder turn?

I hope a builder's turn is stilled allowed only once during the turns sequence of a player, else this would be too powerful  :o

You could get 5 turns if combined with the messages (1 base, 1 builder, 1 jubilee, 1 builder, 1 message (and 1 more jubilee if you get a jubilee tile again?)  :o

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2021, 12:43:33 PM »
I'm assuming that "turn" and "that turn" are badly translated.

I ask the question because an extra builder's turn invoking an extra jubilee turn isn't the same thing. That action wouldn't then be consecutive. You can alternate indefinitely  :(y)

Or does not getting a 3rd consecutive turn break apply to all turns, even if you're not invoking this action?

Offline Decar

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2021, 12:44:03 PM »
Anyway going to split the thread here, so that speculation can take place elsewhere.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2021, 12:48:25 PM »
HiG won't provide any clarifications about interactions with the Jubilee expansion... but each full turn can become a double turn...   ;D

And Messages and the Saint Nicholas scoreboard can provide adsitional (double) turns...   :o



Offline corinthiens13

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2021, 12:53:22 PM »
HiG won't provide any clarifications about interactions with the Jubilee expansion... but each full turn can become a double turn...   ;D

And Messages and the Saint Nicholas scoreboard can provide adsitional (double) turns...   :o

Each full turn can become a double turn... If using a new mechanic, but every mechanic that provides a new turn can used only once ???

Otherwise, this makes an infinity loop that makes no sense  :yellow-meeple:

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2021, 12:53:46 PM »
It can get very messy. I would assume you are supposed not to activate more than two Jubilee turns while you are the active player.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2021, 12:55:25 PM »
HiG won't provide any clarifications about interactions with the Jubilee expansion... but each full turn can become a double turn...   ;D

And Messages and the Saint Nicholas scoreboard can provide adsitional (double) turns...   :o

Each full turn can become a double turn... If using a new mechanic, but every mechanic that provides a new turn can used only once ???

Otherwise, this makes an infinity loop that makes no sense  :yellow-meeple:

Or at least the builder may be used only once  :yellow-meeple:

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2021, 02:54:04 AM »
You can use the builder only once per turn to convert it into a double turn. The issue is that, while you are the active player, you may be granted multiple turns that can become double turns:
* Message providing an additional turns
* Jubilee extra turns
* Saint Nicholas scoring board extra turns
Double turns may also happen during a bazaar round, which may be nested in a player's double turn.

When combining Jubilee turns with other expansions, you may face a situation where you may activate Jubilee tiles intermitently  without chaining extra turns back to back. Does this mean that the extra Jubilee turns should be reset each time?

As we will have no clarifications from HiG in this regard for the time being, how many Jubilee extra turns is the active player allowed to activate?
a) One no matter what (Nested bazaar rounds are considered separately)
b) As many as possible whenever they are not chained back to back (Nested bazaar rounds are considered separately).

* Note: bazaar rounds may be nested in a double turn. In this case, the turns per player should be considered isolated from the ongoing active player turn.

Case a) is simpler to manage and I think it sticks closely to the basic rules of the Jubilee expansion.
Case b) is more flexible but you have to keep track of the origin of each extra turn and double turn taking place to see if you are chaining or not Jubilee extra turns.

In the following example, we are chaining several extra turns. What happens with T4?

T1 turn (+Jubilee turn trigger) 
T2 jubilee extra turn (+Message turn trigger)
T3 message extra turn (+Jubilee turn trigger ??) 
T4 jubilee extra turn ??

If we apply case a), T4 will not be allowed to happen since the active player already activated a Jubilee extra turn for T2. If we apply case b), T4 would be allowed since T3 would reset the Jubilee extra turn chaining counter, since T2 and T4 are not strictly consecutive.

More sophisticated scenarios can take place involving the builder, bazaars and the Saint Nicholas Scoring Board, but this simple one may help the discussion better IMHO.

Any thoughts?

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2021, 03:05:21 AM »
A seems better, easier, and more balanced.

For the builder, did HiG once state that the builder extra turn may take place more than once while a player's playing? Or is it only speculation?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2021, 03:14:33 AM »
You have one example here, when combining doulbe turns and Messages:

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-21

This can also happen with bazaars and double turns, although I'm waiting for some clarifications from HiG about this one:

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars#Bazaar_2

In one of may latest questions to HiG, they replied bazaars are not delayed but ignored during all the bazaar round. I'm am waiting for an additional clarifications since the wording about double turns during the bazaar rounds was confusing/contradictory with the normal rules. So still sitting tight waiting for an answer.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: 20th Anniversary edition speculation #2
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2021, 03:22:23 AM »
Ok... That's odd... House rule: Any double turn mechanic may be used only once by the active player. That's easiest, solves any complex turn sequence question, and avoid any infinity loop  :yellow-meeple:

I hope HiG's gonna bring some clarity and simplification on this...



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