Author Topic: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021  (Read 2149 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Last Friday we got the following clarification from Johannes (HiG) on the HiG Discord server.

Following Kettlefish's tradition...

Question in BLUE

Answer in GREEN

Still open in RED

My own comments in  MAROON



Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5026.0
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2021, 03:50:31 AM »
Status of closed fields and using magic portals with fields



[Q1.1] In the image above, fields 1 and 2 are closed. Does this mean they are completed?

[A1.1] Fields are never considered completed. Because of that you will never get your meeple back.



[Q1.2] If you place the magic portal tile, could you send a meeple as a farmer to fields 1 or 2 with the magic portal?

[A1.2] Since fields are never completed, this means you can use other mechanics to put meeple there (magic portals, crop circles...).

Here the point is that a closed field is not considered a completed feature the same as a city or a road. If so, you will be able to use a magic portal to deploy a farmer in fields 1, 2 or 3 (on any tile but the one just placed).

So neither field became completed when closed (no matter if at different times):
* Field 1 was closed in a previous turn.
* Inner field 2 was already closed upon tile placement in a previous turn.
* Field 3 is closed with the tile being just placed.

As a result in this case, the valid placements would be:
* Direct placement on the magic portal tile (in field 3 or field 4)
* Deployment via magic portal on any other field segment of field 3 or field 4 (the tile being placed only accepts direct placement).
* Deployment via magic portal to any tile of field 1 or field 2.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 11:17:41 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2021, 04:47:43 AM »
All this seems logical, thanks for the confirmation.  :yellow-meeple:

Only one thing bothers me though:
the tile being placed only accepts direct placement

Why? I do not see this restriction in the rule. I think when placing a magic portal we may:
  • Make a direct placement on any unoccupied feature (completed or not) of the tile that has just been placed
OR
  • Use the magic portal to place a meeple on any tile, on an unoccupied AND incomplete feature, even on the tile that has juste been placed. That makes the portal useless so there's no reason to do so, but I also do not see a reason for that restriction (so, removing that restriction doesn't change anything to the game, but it simplifies the rule)

Or did I miss something?  ???

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2021, 06:06:56 AM »
Magic portals add more options for meeple placement but do not redefine the basic mechanics of the base game. Let me explain...

The rules say (added a couple of calls for later reference):
Quote
After placing a Magic Portal tile, you may place a meeple on that tile (a) or on any other previous placed tile (b). When doing so, you must follow all other placement rules. For example, you may not place a meeple in an already occupied or completed feature.

Regarding placement, option (a) refers to the normal placement as defined in the base game (direct placement). Option (b) refers to the new placement mechanics (magic portals) and the conditions after this point refer to option (b).

There is a key point here: option (a) allows you to claim unoccupied features just completed, for example, a monastery just placed in a 8-tile hole, or a 2-tile unoccupied city just completed. So you can always do more with direct placement, that is, option (a).

For example, magic portals (option (b)) will not allow you to complete an unoccupied monastery on an adjacent tile, occupy it and score it. So there is an extra ability with an additional limitation.

Note: Magic portals presents the same limitations as flying machines: the flying machine tile cannot be completing the feature you want to occupy.

Offline DIN0

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2021, 06:32:30 AM »
May I ask why were these questions neccessary in the first place? ???
We already knew the answers to these ever since Princess and Dragon has been released. 

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2021, 07:11:03 AM »
This was one particular point that I wanted to verify for its implications. Just that.

The actual question was: "closed field" = "completed field"? The answer was simply no. Now I can sleep better at night because there is no room for doubt in this case.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2021, 07:22:51 AM »
Magic portals add more options for meeple placement but do not redefine the basic mechanics of the base game. Let me explain...

The rules say (added a couple of calls for later reference):
Quote
After placing a Magic Portal tile, you may place a meeple on that tile (a) or on any other previous placed tile (b). When doing so, you must follow all other placement rules. For example, you may not place a meeple in an already occupied or completed feature.

Regarding placement, option (a) refers to the normal placement as defined in the base game (direct placement). Option (b) refers to the new placement mechanics (magic portals) and the conditions after this point refer to option (b).

There is a key point here: option (a) allows you to claim unoccupied features just completed, for example, a monastery just placed in a 8-tile hole, or a 2-tile unoccupied city just completed. So you can always do more with direct placement, that is, option (a).

For example, magic portals (option (b)) will not allow you to complete an unoccupied monastery on an adjacent tile, occupy it and score it. So there is an extra ability with an additional limitation.

Note: Magic portals presents the same limitations as flying machines: the flying machine tile cannot be completing the feature you want to occupy.

Ok for that.

Anyway, choosing to use a magic portal to place a meeple on the tile that has just been placed (by respecting portal placement rule (unoccupied and incomplete feature) :
  • Makes no sense, you can do that by direct placement
  • But wouldn't have any wrong side effect in regard to the rules, so that wouldn't be a problem :yellow-meeple:

Offline DIN0

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2021, 08:25:16 AM »
This was one particular point that I wanted to verify for its implications. Just that.

The actual question was: "closed field" = "completed field"? The answer was simply no. Now I can sleep better at night because there is no room for doubt in this case.
Ah yes, I remember you having doubts about that in some discussion we had. Well, I guess I can say: "I told you so! ;D"
But in all seriousness, I never had any doubts about this, because of specifications in the base rules and the rules for Hills&Sheep (among others).

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2021, 08:50:45 AM »
Yes, for Hills & Sheep it is not an issue. Just wanted to verify the translation was accurate and closed / completed were used properly.

Offline DIN0

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Re: Clarification of rules (fields & magic portals) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2021, 11:21:18 AM »
Got it  :(y)


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