Author Topic: The Dragons' Meal plan - What can the Dragon eat?  (Read 18325 times)

Offline Paul

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Re: The Dragons' Meal plan - What can the Dragon eat?
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2017, 02:05:52 AM »
What about the dragon and the gingerbread man? Does the dragon eat him? Technically he is not flesh and blood.  But gingerbread is delicious and surely even a dragon would enjoy some.

I know the winter edition is separate and some people say that you can't (or shouldn't) play the winter edition with the other expansions since the art is different. But we like playing with it. Makes it feel less like winter and more like spring.

The only reference I could find was in CAR 7.4 (Complete Annotaded Rules) on page 45:
Quote
91 The Gingerbread Man (when playing the iOS version) can also be eaten by the dragon. (12/2014)

Link to the pdf rules on this forum can be found here

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Offline Willem

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Re: The Dragons' Meal plan - What can the Dragon eat?
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2017, 02:37:01 AM »
I'd say the dragon can eat the Gingerbread Man aswell. The dragon isnt shy of eating 'neutral' figures, like the mage and witch, and for me the dragon fits in this line...
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Offline Kaleostro

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Re: The Dragons' Meal plan - What can the Dragon eat?
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2020, 03:48:07 AM »
I've called with HiG today as a result HiG has updated the Dragons meal plan.

Now - the teacher is save - see the rule

http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf

The school still has the rule like the clarifications some time ago - simular to the City of Carcassonne and the Wheel of Fortune

The last statement in this topic was that dragons cannot eat teachers, but according to the last version (from May 19, 2015) of the plan, dragons can do it.
In the S-CAR v7.4 it is correctly given on the page 196 as a footnote 499 (but with the wrong date 3/2015),
but in Wikicarpedia it is still wrong
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_School_(1st_edition)
footnote 8

Can it be changed if it is actually correct (meaning here, ticher is edible)?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Dragons' Meal plan - What can the Dragon eat?
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2020, 09:37:44 AM »
There are several issues around this topic:

1. The CAR v7.4 is inconsistent about this matter:

1a) The teacher cannot be eaten by the dragon since it is placed on the school that is not on a tile in particular (latest version):

* Page 45: The 2015 FAQ: Meal plan for Dragons at the top of the page is aligned with the last FAQ document available on HiG's website until 11/2015 and on CarcF.

1b) The teacher can be eaten by the dragon since you are forced to place it on one of the two tiles od the school when playing with the dragon (previous version)

* Page 195: [492] If playing with the dragon, the teacher will have to be placed on one or the other of the school
tiles (i.e., not in the middle), as he can be eaten by the dragon (per the footnote below). (3/2015)

* Page 196: [499] The dragon is allowed on the school tiles and can eat the neutral teacher figure, removing
the teacher from the game entirely. This represents a change to a previous clarification, where the
teacher could not be eaten. Additionally, this requires players to place the teacher on only one of the
school tiles each time he returns to the school when playing with the dragon, as precise location will
be important. (3/2015)


2. The latest original FAQ document (published as: http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf) in not available on HiG's website (which matches 1a), but it can be found here:

* Archived version available here:
   http://web.archive.org/web/20151121062431/http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf

* Copy maintained on CarcF renamed as Drache_FAQ.pdf (see last link in the table on this page):
   https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10

You can see both documents share some properties:
- Title: Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ_14.indd
- Created: 14/04/2015 11:57:40
- Modified: 14/04/2015 12:08:17
- Application: Adobe InDesign CS5.5 (7.5.3)
- PDF Generator: Adobe PDF Library 9.9
- PDF Version: 1.7, Adobe Extension Level 8 (Acrobat X)
- File size: 3,63 MB (3.810.741 bytes)
- Page size: 120 x 180 mm


3. The other FAQ version in PDF (03.2 Speiseplan für Drachen.pdf) available here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/js146pba3iq91ha/03.%202.%20Speiseplan%20f%C3%BCr%20Drachen.pdf?dl=0) differs in a number of properties:
- Title: Untitled
- Created: 19/05/2015 12:58:52
- Modified: 19/05/2015 12:58:52
- Application: PDF24 Creator
- PDF Generator: GPL Ghostscript 9.14
- PDF Version: 1.4 (Acrobat 5.x)
- File size: 2,81 MB (2.948.229 bytes)
- Page size: 176 x 256 mm

Although it was generated a few days later than the one referenced in section 2), it contains some indications it may not be an official version by HiG:
- Its last page included a text reading "Basic rules format for the Carcassone Forum"
- It contains a typo that was corrected in the latest version (the draft indicated that the catapult tokens belong to Expansion 6). Check this post:
  https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=2600&start=15#p28695
- The file is not generated from InDesign and its page size is larger than a normal major expansion rules leaflet (120 x 180mm) 
- The ornaments in the perimeter of the whitish area have been removed partially (on page 1) or almost totally on (on page 2 - you can see some remains at the bottom)
- The info inside the page has been shrunk to make room for extra lines. On page 1 the scale is not maintained and you can notice some extra shrinking in the vertical axis
- The page numbers have been removed along with the blue semicircular area at the bottom to make room for the extra lines.

All this makes me think this last document is fan generated and based on a previous draft of the FAQ, that includes errors removed and obsolete rules.

WICA follows the CAR v7.4 (bullet 1a). I researched this matter some time ago (as I came across these inconsistencies in the CAR itself) and updated the clarifications about the interactions of the teacher and the dragon accordingly. You can see the explanation for the latest ruling here:

https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=2600&start=15#p28749

Hope this helps!

EDIT: Added more details in section 3).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 02:12:23 PM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: The Dragons' Meal plan - What can the Dragon eat?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2020, 01:06:24 PM »
So you have to be Sherlock Holmes to check all tumors and Entes or hoax :)

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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Dragons' Meal plan - What can the Dragon eat?
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2020, 01:20:00 PM »
It is just fact checking... Just trying to understand the timeline... This is an interesting case.

This is a recurrent task when filling the gap between the CAR and the latest rules. Sometimes you come across some clarifications in CarC, CarcF or third parties that don't apply anymore. So you have to discard those outdated by later rulings...  ;)

Offline Kaleostro

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Re: The Dragons' Meal plan - What can the Dragon eat?
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2020, 07:00:40 AM »

All this makes me think this last document is fan generated and based on a previous draft of the FAQ, that includes errors removed and obsolete rules.


I also looked at it carefully, compared both PDFs (also with hex editor) and it seems that the oldest (19.05.2015) is actually a "fake", an interpretation by a Carcasonne fan, for which he used the as the basis version dated April 14, 2015. ::)


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